Simple solution? Tour more. Compared to many many other bands out there that have been around just as long or longer, their touring habits are a joke.
I don't care they are playing this thing as
I pointed out earlier. But if they would play, oh I don't know, more than 10 shows a year maybe people would be in less of an uproar.
It's a little silly that I've seen my 2nd, 3rd, and 4th favorite bands many times over since PJ has bothered to show up around here.
/rant
One more thing. As several have pointed out, no one is shelling out $2400 for a ticket. It's part of a corporate training/convention event. The show is just part of the event.
I think we can agree that we don't know why PJ does what it does and even if the money goes to charity or whatnot, I don't think it's anyone's business but theirs. But I can't help but admire what Yauch and the other Beastie Boys have done regarding corporate use of their music.
I do wonder what PJ thinks of its fans though, and if their fans are worthy of more shows than corporate heads and politicians (I mean, personal politician friends of band members).
be careful... there are rats in this forum that'll rat you our for having an opposing view point of anything PJ. They will then ban you from the forum.
No one is allowed to disagree or question what PJ does with themselves.
This is a love fest site...
Those lost young men we use to follow who fought against 2500$ tix prices and oppressing people and their opinions are forever gone.
This new regime will take any money they can get no matter the cost to their reputation or to their respect they have earned.
Don't worry though, there are plenty of cheerleader clowns in here that'll set you straight about yourself for questioning anything that PJ does....
anyone and everyone has the right to his or her opinion about the band and its practices. I've seen many many people criticize the band/club/etc, myself included. in my experience, the only time people get banned is if they express said opinion while being a douchebag about it.
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
I do wonder what PJ thinks of its fans though, and if their fans are worthy of more shows than corporate heads and politicians (I mean, personal politician friends of band members).
they just finished a proper tour of Europe. NO band tours as much as they did when they were young. it's simply not possible with other commitments. Would I like them to come to Canada more than they have? Of course, but my god, if I'm in a band for 20 years, I'm not touring "just for the fans". NO band does that, and never has.
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
I have to admit to being sad about all this. :( However, my hope is that a portion of the take will be donated to charity. And that's all I have to say about that.
why does a portion of everything this band does have to go to fucking charity?? it's their money. does a certain percentage of all of your cheques go to charity? it doesn't matter how much money you make, it's all relative.
i'd guess that PJ has given a much larger percentage of their net income to various charities than any of us. And no, you can't say "well they are rich", I said PERCENTAGE.
They may have, but most of us haven't bitched about corporations or railed against people with money for most of our career. Bill Gates has to be one of the top individuals ever in terms of money he's given away and Ed has railed against him.
I really don't care that they do this. This band was never Fugazi no matter how much they liked to paint themselves that way. But they have to expect some people to call them out with all the ranting Ed has done through the years.
They m But they have to expect some people to call them out with all the ranting Ed has done through the years.
THIS
Sacramento 10-30-00, Bridge School 10-20 and 10-21-01, Bridge School 10-25 and 10-26-01, Irvine 06-02-03, Irvine 06-03-03, San Diego 06-05-03, San Diego 07-07-06, Los Angeles 07-09-06, Santa Barbara 07-13-06, London UK 06-18-07, San Diego 10-9-09, San Diego 2013, LA 1 2013
Why not play 4-5 more shows FOR FANS in the US and make money that way? This I don't understand.
Because it's 4-5 times the work and they have earned the right to make money however they see fit. Maybe they want to spend more time with their families, maybe they want to go on vacation, maybe they want to play with side projects. Maybe they want to make a quick buck after being robbed of hundreds of thousands of dollars and being taken advantage of. All decisions that are up to them after working in the same job for 20 years.
You realize that their families were with them on tour in Europe, right? You realize that from early November 2011 through mid-June of 2012 the band never played a show, right? 7 months. How long are your vacations? This is a band that flat out doesn't want to play that many shows. They have earned that right. I just think it is odd, that's all.
I think the band owes it to the fans to play two nights in Montana. They know we are all following them there. A lot of people are paying a lot of money for flights (yes, our decisions). I would think a band that truly, truly holds the fans in high regards would have scheduled two shows.
I really don't care if their families were with them. I was just making a point that there are hundreds of reasons as to why they would pick doing 1 show over 4-5. It's their choice.
They don't owe anyone a damn thing. They announced one show and people decided to make arrangements based on one show being announced. That is all. No one is entitled to another show because you decided to travel however many miles.
Why not play 4-5 more shows FOR FANS in the US and make money that way? This I don't understand.
Because it's 4-5 times the work and they have earned the right to make money however they see fit. Maybe they want to spend more time with their families, maybe they want to go on vacation, maybe they want to play with side projects. Maybe they want to make a quick buck after being robbed of hundreds of thousands of dollars and being taken advantage of. All decisions that are up to them after working in the same job for 20 years.
Obviously this debate isn't about whether they should be able to make money off their craft. To me the debate centers around the fact that they have been outspoken about corporates their entire career....and now this. My guess is that we will get an explanation soon enough just like we did with the Target thing. Money to charity or cause...something to that effect.
But who needs an explanation. They don't owe anyone one. It's entertainment.
They may have, but most of us haven't bitched about corporations or railed against people with money for most of our career. Bill Gates has to be one of the top individuals ever in terms of money he's given away and Ed has railed against him.
I really don't care that they do this. This band was never Fugazi no matter how much they liked to paint themselves that way. But they have to expect some people to call them out with all the ranting Ed has done through the years.
This is a good point, so maybe it's simply time to tone down the political and corporate rhetoric. I love their music and would rather not mix the two anyway.
I think the band owes it to the fans to play two nights in Montana. They know we are all following them there. A lot of people are paying a lot of money for flights (yes, our decisions). I would think a band that truly, truly holds the fans in high regards would have scheduled two shows.
They aren't playing Montana for the fans..they are doing it for Jon Tester.
2003: San Antonio, Houston, Dallas, Seattle; 2005: Monterrey; 2006: Chicago 1 & 2, Grand Rapids, Cleveland, Detroit; 2008: West Palm Beach, Tampa; 2009: Austin, LA 3 & 4, San Diego; 2010: Kansas City, St. Louis, Columbus, Indianapolis; 2011: PJ20 1 & 2; 2012: Missoula; 2013: Dallas, Oklahoma City, Seattle; 2014: Tulsa; 2016: Columbia, New York City 1 & 2; 2018: London, Seattle 1 & 2; 2021: Ohana; 2022: Oklahoma City
They may have, but most of us haven't bitched about corporations or railed against people with money for most of our career. Bill Gates has to be one of the top individuals ever in terms of money he's given away and Ed has railed against him.
I really don't care that they do this. This band was never Fugazi no matter how much they liked to paint themselves that way. But they have to expect some people to call them out with all the ranting Ed has done through the years.
that's all well and good, but you STILL don't know their motivation for doing this show, do you?
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
They could also do a tour to pay the "ground crew".
Instead of just breaking even or giving money during this down time...
Corporate gigs, headlining shows at festivals for quick money... is this really the new Pearl Jam?
I completely agree with you on the point of touring... however this band has pretty much stated that they're not interested in that anymore, period. So playing a gig like this is an easy supplement.
I was just trying to explain the logic behind the event as I see it. gaurenteed it's a $$$$$$$ kinda pay day.
Houston, Texas... Believe it or not, there are 7 million people here... must be a couple of fans who'd love to see you play.
Not that this is necessarily the case here, but some bands that do corporate gigs often do them to create work for their crew members during the bands downtime.
this is exactly what's going on here.... I hope everyone realizes that in their post.
The band decided to play a promotional event for John Tester.
To do this, that means they have to mobilize the ground crew.
Most people don't realize the mobilization fee is ridiculous large compared to the operating cost. In order to pay off the mobilization costs, the band would have looked at exactly how many shows it would take to put them back in the black for the "tour".
The number of shows worked out to 3 festivals + this gig. End of story. It was the quickest, easiest way to not have a net loss for playing the promotional even for Tester.
Again - I point out to the RATM tour of Europe last year... what was it 4 shows + the free show in the UK? Same deal.
Just because PJ are donating a show to John Tester for his campaign fund it doesn't mean they don't have to pay the US ground crew...
I'm guessing they're getting paid for the Tester show. He's making money off meet and greet folks and dinner with Jeff folks, etc. They're probably taking a pay cut but I'm guessing they'll make a profit.
I doubt they're making a dime off the tester show. I would say all of it is going to his campaign. What would be the point of having a meet and greet if not? Are they saying we're going to make our profit, but we're also going to sucker you in to support this politician's campaign?
I mean, I'm getting emails from John Tester just because I entered my name in the drawing for the "best seats in the world contest", and I'm a little ticked off at that. I am a canadian living in the US and do my best to stay the hell out of american politics. I wouldn't even of entered the contest if i had to actually give money to the campaign... even a $1 is ridiculous... but it was free so I said WTF? I do not support any politics in this country because whatever way you look at it, the system is still broken and it's not getting fixed.
If the band wants to be anti-corporate and have a political voice, so be it, but this is a bit much to swallow... supporting a grassroots candidate and then playing a completely corporate show...
I think the most irking thing is the lack of an announcement.... makes it seem like they're doing their best to try and sweep this whole thing under the rug....
Houston, Texas... Believe it or not, there are 7 million people here... must be a couple of fans who'd love to see you play.
it must be very weird for the band to even want to take on a gig like this. they certainly don't need the money and yet they are playing to a bunch of people that might know 10/vs at best...kinda like that person texting from the front row in vancouver...why set yourself up to play a show to NONfans?? is it really about the money? i hope there is an explanation cause to me it doesn't make sense. I get the Target thing but not this one at all
I think its perfectly reasonable that some fans find it odd that Pearl Jam, a band that has stood against the corporate world in the past, will be playing a semi-private corporate event for one of the biggest corporate companies in the world.
Its not a case of ownership of the band, its a case of it being weird. One of the main reasons many of us fell for this band was not only their music but their outlook on the world and this event appears not to correlate with the PJ we all knew in the past.
Sure, times change, people grow up and their priorities change. But do PJ NEED to do this? Probably not.
I agree with this
St.John's 9/24/2005
St.John's 9/25/2005
Toronto 9/11/2011
Toronto 9/12/2011
Quebec City 5/5/2016
Ottawa 5/8/2016
For all the talk in this thread about being sellouts and playing a corporate event (less than a year after releasing a movie, in which, 1/4 of it was about PJ fighting corporate greed).
The hardest part for me is that when a band gets paid to play for corporate suits, that won't know their songs, it is a sign of a novelty act.
I'd like to think the band is more relevant than that, but with one album in the last 6 (it will be 7) years and the ratio of arenas/festivals being tilted towards the later, I'm starting to think this...
I think the band owes it to the fans to play two nights in Montana. They know we are all following them there. A lot of people are paying a lot of money for flights (yes, our decisions). I would think a band that truly, truly holds the fans in high regards would have scheduled two shows.
They aren't playing Montana for the fans..they are doing it for Jon Tester.
They don't owe anyone a damn thing. They announced one show and people decided to make arrangements based on one show being announced. That is all. No one is entitled to another show because you decided to travel however many miles.
In this case, when they've played two shows in the USA in 2011 and have only three other scheduled festival shows for 2012, the band pretty much knows people are going to be traveling from all over the place to see them in Montanta (which they are). In this case I think it would be a significant thank you from the band to play two shows as they KNOW we are traveling from all over. We are happy to do it for one show. But it would be a nice gesture from the band (which they would be paid for) to play a second show.
Pearl Jam had talent and built the band, but the fans have stuck around and supported them for 20 years. The band should be respectful to the fans and playing a second show in Montana would have been a pretty easy thing to do for the fans (which they chose not to).
They don't owe anyone a damn thing. They announced one show and people decided to make arrangements based on one show being announced. That is all. No one is entitled to another show because you decided to travel however many miles.
In this case, when they've played two shows in the USA in 2011 and have only three other scheduled festival shows for 2012, the band pretty much knows people are going to be traveling from all over the place to see them in Montanta (which they are). In this case I think it would be a significant thank you from the band to play two shows as they KNOW we are traveling from all over. We are happy to do it for one show. But it would be a nice gesture from the band (which they would be paid for) to play a second show.
Pearl Jam had talent and built the band, but the fans have stuck around and supported them for 20 years. The band should be respectful to the fans and playing a second show in Montana would have been a pretty easy thing to do for the fans (which they chose not to).
Its Montana for christs sake...when have they ever gotten 2 shows from anybody I'm sure its beautiful and all...thats exactly the reason I'm not going
Too much coin for 1 show thats over in a little over 2 hours....the feeling after would make me sick knowing I dont have another the next night.
Its Montana for christs sake...when have they ever gotten 2 shows from anybody I'm sure its beautiful and all...thats exactly the reason I'm not going
Too much coin for 1 show thats over in a little over 2 hours....the feeling after would make me sick knowing I dont have another the next night.
If PJ20 was only 1 show...I woulda stayed home
Next year will be better...then I'll blow my load
You know, I am going to Montana and didn't really care about whether it was one show or two. I plan PJ shows around places I haven't been before and that would be fun to take a vacation around. So I'm excited to spend 4 days in Missoula getting out into nature. But when they pull out a corporate gig like this, I just can't help but wonder "what the hell?" If they need money, they have 7,000 FANS and a stage already ready to go in Montana with no additional travel costs.
Its Montana for christs sake...when have they ever gotten 2 shows from anybody I'm sure its beautiful and all...thats exactly the reason I'm not going
Too much coin for 1 show thats over in a little over 2 hours....the feeling after would make me sick knowing I dont have another the next night.
If PJ20 was only 1 show...I woulda stayed home
Next year will be better...then I'll blow my load
You know, I am going to Montana and didn't really care about whether it was one show or two. I plan PJ shows around places I haven't been before and that would be fun to take a vacation around. So I'm excited to spend 4 days in Missoula getting out into nature. But when they pull out a corporate gig like this, I just can't help but wonder "what the hell?" If they need money, they have 7,000 FANS and a stage already ready to go in Montana with no additional travel costs.
I hear ya, the seeing new places part is great and Montana seems nice. I just know the way I am.... I would only drive 4-5 hours tops for a single show
just the way I am
I'm sure it will be one of those shows like Vic etc
Ed toured solo this year
PJ toured Europe this year
PJ has been and is almost done recording their new album this year
Brad released a new album this year
Jeff released a new album this year
Mike released new music this year
Matt recorded a new album this year and is going to be touring for it
and there are people bitching that the band isn't fucking active. sometimes they like to do their own thing. it makes PJ better when they come back to it.
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
They don't owe anyone a damn thing. They announced one show and people decided to make arrangements based on one show being announced. That is all. No one is entitled to another show because you decided to travel however many miles.
In this case, when they've played two shows in the USA in 2011 and have only three other scheduled festival shows for 2012, the band pretty much knows people are going to be traveling from all over the place to see them in Montanta (which they are). In this case I think it would be a significant thank you from the band to play two shows as they KNOW we are traveling from all over. We are happy to do it for one show. But it would be a nice gesture from the band (which they would be paid for) to play a second show.
Pearl Jam had talent and built the band, but the fans have stuck around and supported them for 20 years. The band should be respectful to the fans and playing a second show in Montana would have been a pretty easy thing to do for the fans (which they chose not to).
And that is fair, but it is a lot different than saying they owe it to people. I wouldn't disagree
Comments
I don't care they are playing this thing as
I pointed out earlier. But if they would play, oh I don't know, more than 10 shows a year maybe people would be in less of an uproar.
It's a little silly that I've seen my 2nd, 3rd, and 4th favorite bands many times over since PJ has bothered to show up around here.
/rant
One more thing. As several have pointed out, no one is shelling out $2400 for a ticket. It's part of a corporate training/convention event. The show is just part of the event.
BOS-9/28/04,9/29/04,6/28/08,6/30/08, 9/5/16, 9/7/16, 9/2/18
MTL-9/15/05, OTT-9/16/05
PHL-5/27/06,5/28/06,10/30/09,10/31/09
CHI-8/2/07,8/5/07,8/23/09,8/24/09
HTFD-6/27/08
ATX-10/4/09, 10/12/14
KC-5/3/2010,STL-5/4/2010
Bridge School-10/23/2010,10/24/2010
PJ20-9/3/2011,9/4/2011
OKC-11/16/13
SEA-12/6/13
TUL-10/8/14
Beastie Boys star Adam Yauch's will bans use of his music in advertising
http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2012/au ... dvertising
I think we can agree that we don't know why PJ does what it does and even if the money goes to charity or whatnot, I don't think it's anyone's business but theirs. But I can't help but admire what Yauch and the other Beastie Boys have done regarding corporate use of their music.
I do wonder what PJ thinks of its fans though, and if their fans are worthy of more shows than corporate heads and politicians (I mean, personal politician friends of band members).
anyone and everyone has the right to his or her opinion about the band and its practices. I've seen many many people criticize the band/club/etc, myself included. in my experience, the only time people get banned is if they express said opinion while being a douchebag about it.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
they just finished a proper tour of Europe. NO band tours as much as they did when they were young. it's simply not possible with other commitments. Would I like them to come to Canada more than they have? Of course, but my god, if I'm in a band for 20 years, I'm not touring "just for the fans". NO band does that, and never has.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
Are people feeling slighted?
I just don't get that ...
they are playing a gig other than for us ... shame on them I guess ...
I think the definition of a fan is to love and be supportive ... yes?
Our day will come....
in the meantime rock those tech asses off!
http://allthingsd.com/20120814/oracle-h ... efcat=news
he is very beautiful!
They may have, but most of us haven't bitched about corporations or railed against people with money for most of our career. Bill Gates has to be one of the top individuals ever in terms of money he's given away and Ed has railed against him.
I really don't care that they do this. This band was never Fugazi no matter how much they liked to paint themselves that way. But they have to expect some people to call them out with all the ranting Ed has done through the years.
THIS
I really don't care if their families were with them. I was just making a point that there are hundreds of reasons as to why they would pick doing 1 show over 4-5. It's their choice.
They don't owe anyone a damn thing. They announced one show and people decided to make arrangements based on one show being announced. That is all. No one is entitled to another show because you decided to travel however many miles.
But who needs an explanation. They don't owe anyone one. It's entertainment.
This is a good point, so maybe it's simply time to tone down the political and corporate rhetoric. I love their music and would rather not mix the two anyway.
They aren't playing Montana for the fans..they are doing it for Jon Tester.
that's all well and good, but you STILL don't know their motivation for doing this show, do you?
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
I completely agree with you on the point of touring... however this band has pretty much stated that they're not interested in that anymore, period. So playing a gig like this is an easy supplement.
I was just trying to explain the logic behind the event as I see it. gaurenteed it's a $$$$$$$ kinda pay day.
I doubt they're making a dime off the tester show. I would say all of it is going to his campaign. What would be the point of having a meet and greet if not? Are they saying we're going to make our profit, but we're also going to sucker you in to support this politician's campaign?
I mean, I'm getting emails from John Tester just because I entered my name in the drawing for the "best seats in the world contest", and I'm a little ticked off at that. I am a canadian living in the US and do my best to stay the hell out of american politics. I wouldn't even of entered the contest if i had to actually give money to the campaign... even a $1 is ridiculous... but it was free so I said WTF? I do not support any politics in this country because whatever way you look at it, the system is still broken and it's not getting fixed.
If the band wants to be anti-corporate and have a political voice, so be it, but this is a bit much to swallow... supporting a grassroots candidate and then playing a completely corporate show...
I think the most irking thing is the lack of an announcement.... makes it seem like they're doing their best to try and sweep this whole thing under the rug....
Post of the Thread right there.
:fp:
it must be very weird for the band to even want to take on a gig like this. they certainly don't need the money and yet they are playing to a bunch of people that might know 10/vs at best...kinda like that person texting from the front row in vancouver...why set yourself up to play a show to NONfans?? is it really about the money? i hope there is an explanation cause to me it doesn't make sense. I get the Target thing but not this one at all
I agree with this
St.John's 9/25/2005
Toronto 9/11/2011
Toronto 9/12/2011
Quebec City 5/5/2016
Ottawa 5/8/2016
For all the talk in this thread about being sellouts and playing a corporate event (less than a year after releasing a movie, in which, 1/4 of it was about PJ fighting corporate greed).
The hardest part for me is that when a band gets paid to play for corporate suits, that won't know their songs, it is a sign of a novelty act.
I'd like to think the band is more relevant than that, but with one album in the last 6 (it will be 7) years and the ratio of arenas/festivals being tilted towards the later, I'm starting to think this...
Come on guys, please prove me wrong in 2013...
http://www.livefootsteps.org/user/?usr=1785
that would be a #fact
So PJ could do a benefit show without fans?
Missoula 6/20/98
Alpine Valley 6/26/98 & 6/27/98
Alpine Valley 10/8/00
Champaign 4/23/03
Alpine Valley 6/21/03
Missoula 8/29/05
Chicago 5/16 & 17/06
Grand Rapids 5/19/06
Summerfest 6/29/06 & 6/30/06
Tampa 6/12/08
Chicago 8/23/09
Indy 5/7/10
Alpine Valley x2 2011
Wrigley 2013
Milwaukee 14
Telluride 16
In this case, when they've played two shows in the USA in 2011 and have only three other scheduled festival shows for 2012, the band pretty much knows people are going to be traveling from all over the place to see them in Montanta (which they are). In this case I think it would be a significant thank you from the band to play two shows as they KNOW we are traveling from all over. We are happy to do it for one show. But it would be a nice gesture from the band (which they would be paid for) to play a second show.
Pearl Jam had talent and built the band, but the fans have stuck around and supported them for 20 years. The band should be respectful to the fans and playing a second show in Montana would have been a pretty easy thing to do for the fans (which they chose not to).
Its Montana for christs sake...when have they ever gotten 2 shows from anybody
Too much coin for 1 show thats over in a little over 2 hours....the feeling after would make me sick knowing I dont have another the next night.
If PJ20 was only 1 show...I woulda stayed home
Next year will be better...then I'll blow my load
You know, I am going to Montana and didn't really care about whether it was one show or two. I plan PJ shows around places I haven't been before and that would be fun to take a vacation around. So I'm excited to spend 4 days in Missoula getting out into nature. But when they pull out a corporate gig like this, I just can't help but wonder "what the hell?" If they need money, they have 7,000 FANS and a stage already ready to go in Montana with no additional travel costs.
I hear ya, the seeing new places part is great and Montana seems nice. I just know the way I am.... I would only drive 4-5 hours tops for a single show
just the way I am
I'm sure it will be one of those shows like Vic etc
Ed toured solo this year
PJ toured Europe this year
PJ has been and is almost done recording their new album this year
Brad released a new album this year
Jeff released a new album this year
Mike released new music this year
Matt recorded a new album this year and is going to be touring for it
and there are people bitching that the band isn't fucking active. sometimes they like to do their own thing. it makes PJ better when they come back to it.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
8/28/98- Camden, NJ
10/31/09- Philly
5/21/10- NYC
9/2/12- Philly, PA
7/19/13- Wrigley
10/19/13- Brooklyn, NY
10/21/13- Philly, PA
10/22/13- Philly, PA
10/27/13- Baltimore, MD
Tres Mts.- 3/23/11- Philly
Eddie Vedder- 6/25/11- Philly
I don't care what anyone thinks of my opinion.
And that is fair, but it is a lot different than saying they owe it to people. I wouldn't disagree
Then why post it on the internet?
Edit: The potato soup I had with lunch today was quite tasty. Comment freely.