Whats going wrong with the world? More shootings

comebackgirl · August 2012

pandora wrote:

Zoso wrote:

so why not learn from other countries that have successfully carried out strict gun laws and making them work? Their is a danger in becoming to insular... look at the world now. the wo most violent countries are Afgganistan and America.. how does that make sense when England, Australia, New Zealand etc etc all have small amount of gun deaths per year even smaller if you take into consideration per capita.... Australians don't want to be vitim's anymore so nobody buys guns.. in America if you get burnt their is a need to burn people back.

biased much? ... generalize much? ... good lord

because criminals commit crimes and they are unaffected by laws.

I would suggest you reflect upon some of your own comments. There has been a fair bit of bias and generalization.

I think it's important to remember that the shooter who is the subject of this thread, as well as shooters in many of the recent mass shootings, had no criminal history. They weren't criminals...until they were.

JonnyPistachio · August 2012

pandora wrote:

You want tighter gun laws yet there are strict gun laws that are proving no effect on crime.
The basic common sense about this is criminals don't follow the law
whether they be your everyday make a livelihood criminal, a sociopath or schizophrenic
in the midst of delusion.
It makes no sense to apply more laws to people who are not breaking them.
Enforce the ones we have...

Did you miss all the conversations regarding accidental shootings and people who arent criminals that go on shooting sprees? We're not just talking about your common thug who buys an illegal firearm. It makes no sense to you to have stricter laws, but you dont need to break a law to accidentally shoot and kill your own family members. You're not breaking any laws when you buy 6000 rounds of ammo, multiple pistols, a shotgun and an AR-15 and take it to a movie theater either.

And I don't consider most of our laws strict gun laws. They're pretty lax all over.

dimitrispearljam · August 2012

redrock wrote:

[

Scary shit, isn't it? But it's OK - our laws are sufficient, aren't they? Who cares what and how many you purchase, whether you know how to use them or not, whether you are sane/angry/a psychopath/potential mass murderer or not, plotting something or not. You got it legally, so you are 'responsible'. You must be - the law which protects 'law abiding citizens' allows you to buy firearms in such a way. :roll:

scary as hell.....

and come on...USA is a big power country,maybe number 1 in the world..
should be an example to follow and not an exable to avoid...
they really need to rethink this laws

JonnyPistachio · August 2012

redrock wrote:

g under p wrote:

Once I do get this 22 caliber smallbore rifle I won't even bring it home it will stay at the gun club.

This is what most will consider 'responsible'. Trained and keeping guns safe.

g under p wrote:

I'm amazed though I can order this rifle without ANY background check over the internet...I just need my credit card and it'll be at my door in 6 days.

That needs to change... a 15 year old can order in the same way just as long as he has a credit card...something is truly wrong in America if it's THAT easy to get a rifle.

Scary shit, isn't it? But it's OK - our laws are sufficient, aren't they? Who cares what and how many you purchase, whether you know how to use them or not, whether you are sane/angry/a psychopath/potential mass murderer or not, plotting something or not. You got it legally, so you are 'responsible'. You must be - the law which protects 'law abiding citizens' allows you to buy firearms in such a way. :roll:

Our laws are laughable. An absolute joke. It was brought up a few pages back that Florida has reduced crime coincidentally with the conceal carry laws. Hard to say if they're directly related...but on another note, Its nice to know I can do all that over the internet with no problem and have a gun in no time. Its ridiculous.
And by the way, they were all sold legally at one point I assume...maybe stricter laws on re-sell too?

GunderP, you sound like a good, responsible man...happy shooting to you.

redrock · August 2012

One big change in law was the Brady Law - the criminal background check one - though these checks are still only for guns purchased from federally licensed dealers and not from gun shows, pawn shops, etc. It would seem this blocked 1.9m attempts of purchase by, as some would say, 'baddies' or 'not responsible' people. Now if this can be achieved with so little 'support' think of how many guns could be kept off the streets (and in the hands of unsavoury characters) if this background check was made for every single gun purchase, internet included. Naturally this won't stop the 'person to person' dealings but so many with 'intentions' do get guns from shows and unlicensed dealers.

'Responsible' gun owners are 'happy' to wait and have these checks done - it's for their own good too. Didn't seem to think it 'infringed' on their rights too much... I'm sure much more can be done.

g under p · August 2012

g under p wrote:

Once I do get this 22 caliber smallbore rifle I won't even bring it home it will stay at the gun club.

This is what most will consider 'responsible'. Trained and keeping guns safe.

g under p wrote:

I'm amazed though I can order this rifle without ANY background check over the internet...I just need my credit card and it'll be at my door in 6 days.

That needs to change... a 15 year old can order in the same way just as long as he has a credit card...something is truly wrong in America if it's THAT easy to get a rifle.

JonnyPistachio wrote:

redrock wrote:

Scary shit, isn't it? But it's OK - our laws are sufficient, aren't they? Who cares what and how many you purchase, whether you know how to use them or not, whether you are sane/angry/a psychopath/potential mass murderer or not, plotting something or not. You got it legally, so you are 'responsible'. You must be - the law which protects 'law abiding citizens' allows you to buy firearms in such a way. :roll:

Our laws are laughable. An absolute joke. It was brought up a few pages back that Florida has reduced crime coincidentally with the conceal carry laws. Hard to say if they're directly related...but on another note, Its nice to know I can do all that over the internet with no problem and have a gun in no time. Its ridiculous.
And by the way, they were all sold legally at one point I assume...maybe stricter laws on re-sell too?

GunderP, you sound like a good, responsible man...happy shooting to you.

The laws are a joke...I've been tempted to attend one of the many guns shows at the South Florida Fairgrounds but I haven't yet. I'd like to go one of these days just to see how easy or how tough it is to buy a gun without actually buying one. I don't need no fricking gun at my home with 44 very inquisitive teens...I have a 4 foot sword from Pakistan.

It appears in this country the minute one points out how easy it is to obtain a gun and that stricter laws are needed tp purchase rifles like the AR15 and others. It's assumed they want to take our guns away and it's even been said in this thread which is absolutely NOT the case. I mean they should be as simple as a waiting period for certain deadly automatic rifles....it just seems in this country we are driven by the power that a handgun seems to give some people when in reality many times it harms the innocent rather than an intruder in your home. That's why we will ALWAYS lead this planet in gun related deaths and that my friends IS scary and don't scare so easy...however snakes well that's a whole other story.

Peace

redrock · August 2012

g under p wrote:

It appears in this country the minute one points out how easy it is to obtain a gun and that stricter laws are needed tp purchase rifles like the AR15 and others. It's assumed they want to take our guns away and it's even been said in this thread which is absolutely NOT the case. I mean they should be as simple as a waiting period for certain deadly automatic rifles....it just seems in this country we are driven by the power that a handgun seems to give some people when in reality many times it harms the innocent rather than an intruder in your home. That's why we will ALWAYS lead this planet in gun related deaths and that my friends IS scary and don't scare so easy...however snakes well that's a whole other story.

Peace

In bold - proven many times in this thread.

The thing is, I can understand that people may want a rifle to hunt or something to shoot for sport (at 'proper' facilities and properly stored there) or even for protection. I'm no expert in firearms but I assume that already gives one plenty of choices. Do people REALLY need assault weapons so powerful and lethal that one can 'shoot a helicopter down' (as a poster or two mentioned)? If one argues along the 'responsible and law abiding citizen' line, these weapons are not necessary at all. I think some of these weapons need to be severely restricted to those that could have an extremely good reason to own them (checked and rechecked). No Tom, Dick and Harry 'need' to have those to 'protect themselves' and they shouldn't be available to the general public.

That would not be infringing on any right to 'bear arms' - one can still 'bear' but with restrictions.

Zoso · August 2012

pandora wrote:

Zoso wrote:

so why not learn from other countries that have successfully carried out strict gun laws and making them work? Their is a danger in becoming to insular... look at the world now. the wo most violent countries are Afgganistan and America.. how does that make sense when England, Australia, New Zealand etc etc all have small amount of gun deaths per year even smaller if you take into consideration per capita.... Australians don't want to be vitim's anymore so nobody buys guns.. in America if you get burnt their is a need to burn people back.

biased much? ... generalize much? ... good lord
so you think gun owners own for revenge... almighty then :fp:
http://www.varioustopics.com/anthropolo ... -guns.html

read this article, non biased
the point ... taking guns away from law abiding folk has no effect on crime

crime is dropping around the world though, here in our US cities also,
it is attributed to many things...
tougher laws for incarceration, better technology, awareness,
better social help to stop domestic violence, better mental health care
even more guns protecting citizens, :thumbup:
etc. but what has been found stricter gun laws have no effect on crime
because criminals commit crimes and they are unaffected by laws.

gun deaths in australia and england went down when stricter gun laws were introduced.. and that's a fact.. other crimes have stayed steady.

make sure you ask every potential gun owner if they are going to ever commit a mass shooting.. :roll: I'm sure that would work.. my point being mass murderers and normally civil folk with no prior criminal activity. So you ask yourself then their HAS to a system that has a better way of tracking who buys guns, how many guns, how much ammo because it's no one's right to have a stock pile in their house.. because at that point it's not about self defense it's just plain dangerous.

they are always going to be criminals with guns that's a fact.. but there is no way Americans or any other country folk should be scared to see a movie or go to church.. more guns isn't going to stop these people as a police man had a gun and in WI shot him anyway lol Don't for a second pretend every American can act like Clint Eastwood does on screen in real life in a shootout at a mall or the movies... people either flight or fight and it doesn't always happen like you want it too. Arm everyone to to the teeth and the gun deaths WILL not stop. The fact is the more guns the more people are using them, the more accidents will occur and the more people will loose their jobs and go on a rampage, fail school and go on a rampage or whatever the case maybe. If you have a gun and get to the point that Holmes and severals others have who knows what you're capable of criminal record or not.

polaris_x · August 2012

has mental illness been discussed in this thread?

comebackgirl · August 2012

polaris_x wrote:

has mental illness been discussed in this thread?

Yes earlier on

redrock · August 2012

pandora wrote:

http://www.varioustopics.com/anthropolo ... -guns.html

read this article, non biased
the point ... taking guns away from law abiding folk has no effect on crime.

A columnist! When will you learn to validate sources????

Here are the actual statistics for the UK (as the article mentioned the UK) covering from 1969 to 2011. All kinds of numbers you may want - number of gun crimes, what they were, what kind of firearms, whether they were fired or not, etc. What it doesn't detail is if the 'gun violence' was gang related, domestic (which often is under 'other'), etc. I'm sure there are other statistics which can detail that (and I think we may be surprised with them!). Overall gun related crime is on the serious decrease. I also believe the source is valid

https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=ca ... euBL5-QsZg

What I see in the UK is that since Dublane (when gun laws changed), there has been only one other incident someone going on a rampage with a shotgun and a rifle (no handguns). Maybe stricter controls are needed there? Just this year, the US had 23 mass shootings... hmmm..... 1 firearm rampage with multiple deaths in 16 years or 23 in 7 months..... a no brainer really...

redrock · August 2012

polaris_x wrote:

has mental illness been discussed in this thread?

Comebackgirl made several very pertinent posts.

pandora · August 2012

g under p wrote:

I've been reading through this thread but not posting much no time it's a busy summer. Let me understand something here....it appears MOST here including myself DO NOT want to ban guns or take away gun rights in any way. However, I see no problem in having stricter laws in buying guns, rifles without background checks and doing so over the internet. You appear to be saying that the laws that are on the books in most states are tough enough. nI disagree.

Did you you see the laws in Colorado where we just had our last mass shooting that was posted earlier....do you think the CO laws are strict enough? Do you own a gun? From what I've read i don't think so yet you crusade on and on about how guns protect yet you yourself appear to not own one....walking the fence again. Practice what you preach if you don't own a gun.

Thrity plus years ago i was very familiar with guns especially rifles in that i planned on becoming a sniper after several years on my rifle team while in school and the military. I changed my mind but now I would like to get back into shooting once again just to see IF I can shoot as well as I once did. Once I do get this 22 caliber smallbore rifle I won't even bring it home it will stay at the gun club. I'm amazed though I can order this rifle without ANY background check over the internet...I just need my credit card and it'll be at my door in 6 days.

That needs to change... a 15 year old can order in the same way just as long as he has a credit card...something is truly wrong in America if it's THAT easy to get a rifle.

Peace

Can you ask a question without judgmental personal insulting and derogatory words?
Unnecessary...

I said I personally do not own a gun ...
I did not say I was unprotected.

It appears, from your statement about me, that you must agree with another's beliefs and
their choices for you to support them.
That is not me, I can recognize the needs and wants of others...
I can support them, I can understand them.
I will not work to remove the rights of others to own a gun, if they so choose,
based on the fact that I do not personally own one.
I would never impose that upon another who could very well have their lives saved
because of a gun.

http://crime.about.com/od/gunlawsbystat ... aws_co.htm

Yes, I think these laws, if enforced are sufficient.

The laws in place did not stop the Colorado shooter, none would have.
He is most likely an ill person with a delusion and a purpose.
It was a very good thing a bomb was not the weapon of choice seeing as he had the
know how...
as many do with a quick google and a legal purchase on the internet.
The death rate would have been far worse... Oklahoma City
devastating all the theatres, killing thousands ...
it could have been much much worse. There is no defense against a bomb.
Human contact allows a chance at least of survival.

My point? bad things will happen we can not control everyone all the time,
to think so would be ridiculous.
But we can be prepared and we can own a gun if we so choose to protect ourselves.

I don't know if this has been posted...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zcnA_Cq_ ... re=related

education, training, knowledge = power

gimmesometruth27 · August 2012

pandora, what about the well regulated militia vs the free for all on weanpon ownership that we have now? any thoughts on that?

how about if you own a gun, you have to join a militia to defend your state? and if you don't you go to jail. that would get people who own guns illegally off of the streets...

redrock · August 2012

pandora wrote:

.....that you must agree with another's beliefs and
their choices for you to support them.
.......
That is not me, I can recognize the needs and wants of others...
I can support them, I can understand them.
I will not work to remove the rights of others to own a gun, if they so choose,
based on the fact that I do not personally own one.
I would never impose that upon another who could very well have their lives saved
because of a gun..

Norm... where is your little guy banging his head against the wall when we need it?

G under P is a 'shooter'. He IS buying gun.... But he seems he will be RESPONSIBLE and is speaking responsibly as a person familiar with guns and ease to purchase them.

Can we just say this one more time.... People are calling for STRICTER laws not taking away your precious guns. If one looks at the Colorado laws, there is NOTHING to enforce!

ComeToTX · August 2012

pandora wrote:

g under p wrote:

I've been reading through this thread but not posting much no time it's a busy summer. Let me understand something here....it appears MOST here including myself DO NOT want to ban guns or take away gun rights in any way. However, I see no problem in having stricter laws in buying guns, rifles without background checks and doing so over the internet. You appear to be saying that the laws that are on the books in most states are tough enough. nI disagree.

Did you you see the laws in Colorado where we just had our last mass shooting that was posted earlier....do you think the CO laws are strict enough? Do you own a gun? From what I've read i don't think so yet you crusade on and on about how guns protect yet you yourself appear to not own one....walking the fence again. Practice what you preach if you don't own a gun.

Thrity plus years ago i was very familiar with guns especially rifles in that i planned on becoming a sniper after several years on my rifle team while in school and the military. I changed my mind but now I would like to get back into shooting once again just to see IF I can shoot as well as I once did. Once I do get this 22 caliber smallbore rifle I won't even bring it home it will stay at the gun club. I'm amazed though I can order this rifle without ANY background check over the internet...I just need my credit card and it'll be at my door in 6 days.

That needs to change... a 15 year old can order in the same way just as long as he has a credit card...something is truly wrong in America if it's THAT easy to get a rifle.

Peace

Can you ask a question without judgmental personal insulting and derogatory words?
Unnecessary...

I said I personally do not own a gun ...
I did not say I was unprotected.

It appears, from your statement about me, that you must agree with another's beliefs and
their choices for you to support them.
That is not me, I can recognize the needs and wants of others...
I can support them, I can understand them.
I will not work to remove the rights of others to own a gun, if they so choose,
based on the fact that I do not personally own one.
I would never impose that upon another who could very well have their lives saved
because of a gun.

http://crime.about.com/od/gunlawsbystat ... aws_co.htm

Yes, I think these laws, if enforced are sufficient.

The laws in place did not stop the Colorado shooter, none would have.
He is most likely an ill person with a delusion and a purpose.
It was a very good thing a bomb was not the weapon of choice seeing as he had the
know how...
as many do with a quick google and a legal purchase on the internet.
The death rate would have been far worse... Oklahoma City
devastating all the theatres, killing thousands ...
it could have been much much worse. There is no defense against a bomb.
Human contact allows a chance at least of survival.

My point? bad things will happen we can not control everyone all the time,
to think so would be ridiculous.
But we can be prepared and we can own a gun if we so choose to protect ourselves.

I don't know if this has been posted...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zcnA_Cq_ ... re=related

education, training, knowledge = power

So because he might have been able to make a bomb we should make it easy for him to get assault rifles and 6,000 rounds of ammo in a short period of time?

Zoso · August 2012

if people want a real laugh they should go over and check out the comments by faux news listeners on the issue of gun control... it's a scary world indeed.

norm · August 2012

redrock wrote:

Norm... where is your little guy banging his head against the wall when we need it?

not sure why y'all are still feeding the nonsense but hey, have fun! :P

redrock · August 2012

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

how about if you own a gun, you have to join a militia to defend your state? and if you don't you go to jail. that would get people who own guns illegally off of the streets...

That would make this interesting....

redrock · August 2012

norm wrote:

not sure why y'all are still feeding the nonsense but hey, have fun! :P

Thanks Norm. Don't know either - compulsive behaviour? Or just can't bear false info being spread? **goes to call her analyst** **Damn... doesn't have one**

Whats going wrong with the world? More shootings

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