Whats going wrong with the world? More shootings

Cosmo · July 2012

MotoDC wrote:

Jason P wrote:

I understand having the right to a weapon for defense ... but when the weapon has the world "assault" preceding it ... how does "assault" correlate to "defend". :think:

Jason P with all your sports references I expected more out of you. "The best defense..."

...
Actually... and I'm just trying to clarify... the philosophy is, 'The best Offense is a Good Defense'. Because, your ability to limit your opponent to a low number of points/runs/goals makes it possible for a mediocre offense to score a higher number. Sort of like good pitching beats good hitting in baseball.
...
That is all. Carry on.

BinauralJam · July 2012

cincybearcat wrote:

mikepegg44 wrote:

which rights are you talking about?

Declaration of independence...

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness"

Guns take this away, as well as this...

"First Amendment: Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

So, I respectfully disagree.

And again, I'm not saying no guns...but we need to limit what types, what types of ammo, and how they are acquired. Hell, I can only buy so many Claritin-D's in a certain period of time...why not ammo? Hunters really need a stockpile?

This^^^

MotoDC · July 2012

Cosmo wrote:

MotoDC wrote:

Jason P wrote:

I understand having the right to a weapon for defense ... but when the weapon has the world "assault" preceding it ... how does "assault" correlate to "defend". :think:

Jason P with all your sports references I expected more out of you. "The best defense..."

...
Actually... and I'm just trying to clarify... the philosophy is, 'The best Offense is a Good Defense'. Because, your ability to limit your opponent to a low number of points/runs/goals makes it possible for a mediocre offense to score a higher number. Sort of like good pitching beats good hitting in baseball.
...
That is all. Carry on.

I'm pretty sure you have it backward. Who knows in this age of info overload, but I found the following quotes

>>>>
Make them believe, that offensive operations, often times, is the surest, if not the only ... means of defence. (George Washington, 1799)
The British People had always believed that the best form of defence was attack on the enemy. (_Times_, Nov 26, 1941)
"My old and very good friend, Jack Dempsey, has a saying which he has proved time and again in the ring. The best defense is a good offense." (Elia Kazan, _The Arrangement_, 1967)
He had learned -- at an early age -- that the best form of defense was offense. (Jackie Collins, _Hollywood Wives_, 1983)
>>>>

Plus think about it logically. It's literally impossible for good pitching to "win" a game. Best you can do is a tie (zero to zero) with literally no offense.

ComeToTX · July 2012

norm wrote:

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/mon-july-23-2012/aurora---gun-control

Perfect.

blueandwhite · July 2012

Cosmo wrote:

MotoDC wrote:

Jason P wrote:

I understand having the right to a weapon for defense ... but when the weapon has the world "assault" preceding it ... how does "assault" correlate to "defend". :think:

Jason P with all your sports references I expected more out of you. "The best defense..."

...
Actually... and I'm just trying to clarify... the philosophy is, 'The best Offense is a Good Defense'. Because, your ability to limit your opponent to a low number of points/runs/goals makes it possible for a mediocre offense to score a higher number. Sort of like good pitching beats good hitting in baseball.
...
That is all. Carry on.

Perhaps it's just me, but couldn't that same thinking be used to justify genocide?

dimitrispearljam · July 2012

ComeToTX wrote:

norm wrote:

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/mon-july-23-2012/aurora---gun-control

Perfect.

i agree..very well -smart put things at the video i just watched in the link

Cosmo · July 2012

blueandwhite wrote:

Cosmo wrote:

MotoDC wrote:

Jason P with all your sports references I expected more out of you. "The best defense..."

...
Actually... and I'm just trying to clarify... the philosophy is, 'The best Offense is a Good Defense'. Because, your ability to limit your opponent to a low number of points/runs/goals makes it possible for a mediocre offense to score a higher number. Sort of like good pitching beats good hitting in baseball.
...
That is all. Carry on.

Perhaps it's just me, but couldn't that same thinking be used to justify genocide?

...
H'UH... WHO... WHA???
Genocide... is a Sport???

mikepegg44 · July 2012

BinauralJam wrote:

cincybearcat wrote:

mikepegg44 wrote:

which rights are you talking about?

Declaration of independence...

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness"

Guns take this away, as well as this...

"First Amendment: Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

So, I respectfully disagree.

And again, I'm not saying no guns...but we need to limit what types, what types of ammo, and how they are acquired. Hell, I can only buy so many Claritin-D's in a certain period of time...why not ammo? Hunters really need a stockpile?

This^^^

Care to elaborate how private, legal gun use/ownership infringes on the freedom of speech?

and you won't get an argument from me that you should be able to buy as many claritin d's as you wish...

How is your pursuit of happiness, life, or liberty are infringed by legal gun ownership/use?

Also, I love the declaration of independence, but it isn't a legally binding document that sets legal precedent in the United States. The constitution does that and pretty well I might add.

comebackgirl · July 2012

norm wrote:

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/mon-july-23-2012/aurora---gun-control

I adore him :oops: Love the bits about sudafed and the costume ban. Every time I need cold medicine I feel like I'm a criminal. And as for the costume ban...ummmm...the shooter wasn't wearing a costume. He was dressed to kill and that's exactly what he did.

gimmesometruth27 · July 2012

cincybearcat wrote:

mikepegg44 wrote:

which rights are you talking about?

Declaration of independence...

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness"

Guns take this away, as well as this...

"First Amendment: Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

So, I respectfully disagree.

And again, I'm not saying no guns...but we need to limit what types, what types of ammo, and how they are acquired. Hell, I can only buy so many Claritin-D's in a certain period of time...why not ammo? Hunters really need a stockpile?

i agree with you cincy. exactly what i was thinking...

anyone else just feel the earth quake??

blueandwhite · July 2012

blueandwhite wrote:

Cosmo wrote:

MotoDC wrote:

Actually... and I'm just trying to clarify... the philosophy is, 'The best Offense is a Good Defense'. Because, your ability to limit your opponent to a low number of points/runs/goals makes it possible for a mediocre offense to score a higher number. Sort of like good pitching beats good hitting in baseball.
...
That is all. Carry on.

Perhaps it's just me, but couldn't that same thinking be used to justify genocide?

...
H'UH... WHO... WHA???
Genocide... is a Sport???

If a sports metaphor to rationalize the use of assault rifles as a defensive tool then doesn't the same metaphor justify eliminating the competition before they become an issue?

gimmesometruth27 · July 2012

mikepegg44 wrote:

Care to elaborate how private, legal gun use/ownership infringes on the freedom of speech?

and you won't get an argument from me that you should be able to buy as many claritin d's as you wish...

How is your pursuit of happiness, life, or liberty are infringed by legal gun ownership/use?

Also, I love the declaration of independence, but it isn't a legally binding document that sets legal precedent in the United States. The constitution does that and pretty well I might add.

can you not shoot me if you don't like what i say? i would say that guns and some people that own/use them limit freedom of speech and expression all of the time...

if i know you have a gun in your pants, it is going to keep me from saying what i really want to say...

comebackgirl · July 2012

mikepegg44 wrote:

Care to elaborate how private, legal gun use/ownership infringes on the freedom of speech?

and you won't get an argument from me that you should be able to buy as many claritin d's as you wish...

How is your pursuit of happiness, life, or liberty are infringed by legal gun ownership/use?

Also, I love the declaration of independence, but it isn't a legally binding document that sets legal precedent in the United States. The constitution does that and pretty well I might add.

People are probably more likely to listen when you're brandishing a gun. Just a guess.

hedonist · July 2012

comebackgirl wrote:

People are probably more likely to listen when you're brandishing a gun. Just a guess.

Reminds me of the scene from Grand Canyon (one of my favorites) -

"You gotta answer one more thing for me, and you gotta tell me the truth. Are you askin' me a favor as a sign of respect...or are you askin' me a favour cos I got the gun?"

"Man, the world ain't supposed to work like this. I mean, maybe you don't know that, but this ain't the way it's supposed to be. I'm supposed to be able to do my job without asking you if I can. That dude is supposed to be able to wait with his car without you rippin' him off. Everything's supposed to be different than what it is."

"So what's your answer?"

"You don't have the gun, we ain't havin' this conversation."

"That's what I thought. No gun, no respect. That's why I always got the gun."

And that's where I was talking about responsible ownership earlier; any fuckin punk can obtain and wield one. The response they get isn't one borne of respect, but of fear.

mikepegg44 · July 2012

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

mikepegg44 wrote:

Care to elaborate how private, legal gun use/ownership infringes on the freedom of speech?

and you won't get an argument from me that you should be able to buy as many claritin d's as you wish...

How is your pursuit of happiness, life, or liberty are infringed by legal gun ownership/use?

Also, I love the declaration of independence, but it isn't a legally binding document that sets legal precedent in the United States. The constitution does that and pretty well I might add.

can you not shoot me if you don't like what i say? i would say that guns and some people that own/use them limit freedom of speech and expression all of the time...

if i know you have a gun in your pants, it is going to keep me from saying what i really want to say...

No i cannot shoot you if I don't like what you say...I think this board is proof of that

A person can try to use all the tools available to them to make you shut up, but that doesn't change the fact that the tool was used for a different purpose than originally intended and if intimidation was the goal of the person attempting it that is a person violating the rights, not a tool.
if guns effected the freedom of speech we would never here any dissent against gov't policy, they have the most guns and the most means of intimidation available...

VINNY GOOMBA · July 2012

I'm all for the people giving up their right to bear arms... just so long as all the police and military have to do the same.

Apparently Mayor Bloomberg feels differently:

http://reason.com/blog/2012/07/24/mayor ... ld-go-on-s

mikepegg44 · July 2012

comebackgirl wrote:

mikepegg44 wrote:

Care to elaborate how private, legal gun use/ownership infringes on the freedom of speech?

and you won't get an argument from me that you should be able to buy as many claritin d's as you wish...

How is your pursuit of happiness, life, or liberty are infringed by legal gun ownership/use?

Also, I love the declaration of independence, but it isn't a legally binding document that sets legal precedent in the United States. The constitution does that and pretty well I might add.

People are probably more likely to listen when you're brandishing a gun. Just a guess.

ok, that doesn't really answer the question of how your freedom of speech is infringed upon by legal gun use/ownership...

comebackgirl · July 2012

hedonist wrote:

comebackgirl wrote:

People are probably more likely to listen when you're brandishing a gun. Just a guess.

Reminds me of the scene from Grand Canyon (one of my favorites) -

"You gotta answer one more thing for me, and you gotta tell me the truth. Are you askin' me a favor as a sign of respect...or are you askin' me a favour cos I got the gun?"

"Man, the world ain't supposed to work like this. I mean, maybe you don't know that, but this ain't the way it's supposed to be. I'm supposed to be able to do my job without asking you if I can. That dude is supposed to be able to wait with his car without you rippin' him off. Everything's supposed to be different than what it is."

"So what's your answer?"

"You don't have the gun, we ain't havin' this conversation."

"That's what I thought. No gun, no respect. That's why I always got the gun."

And that's where I was talking about responsible ownership earlier; any fuckin punk can obtain and wield one. The response they get isn't one borne of respect, but of fear.

Perfect quote!

comebackgirl · July 2012

mikepegg44 wrote:

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

mikepegg44 wrote:

Care to elaborate how private, legal gun use/ownership infringes on the freedom of speech?

and you won't get an argument from me that you should be able to buy as many claritin d's as you wish...

How is your pursuit of happiness, life, or liberty are infringed by legal gun ownership/use?

Also, I love the declaration of independence, but it isn't a legally binding document that sets legal precedent in the United States. The constitution does that and pretty well I might add.

can you not shoot me if you don't like what i say? i would say that guns and some people that own/use them limit freedom of speech and expression all of the time...

if i know you have a gun in your pants, it is going to keep me from saying what i really want to say...

No i cannot shoot you if I don't like what you say...I think this board is proof of that A person can try to use all the tools available to them to make you shut up, but that doesn't change the fact that the tool was used for a different purpose than originally intended and if intimidation was the goal of the person attempting it that is a person violating the rights, not a tool.
if guns effected the freedom of speech we would never here any dissent against gov't policy, they have the most guns and the most means of intimidation available...

Just because you personally wouldn't shoot someone for what they say, doesn't mean you couldn't. Certainly there are some people that would and do, some governments that do. How many people haven't heard of an incident of someone engaging in an argument and said (or heard someone say) "that person could have shot you! You don't know if s/he is carrying a gun!" So in those cases I guess it would limit speech. Cold medicines are tools that are used to make illicit drugs and so the access to them is limited. It's not the cold medicine that's making the drugs, it's the person. Registries are being created for prescribed pain medication to limit their misuse. The pills are just the tool for the misuse it's the people that are misusing them.

Jason P · July 2012

Gun sales increased 41% in Colorado following the massacre.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/07/24/background-checks-for-guns-in-colorado-reportedly-jump-41-percent-since-movie/

Whats going wrong with the world? More shootings

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