Embarrassment

Heisenberg wrote:

Mamasan80 wrote:

Phish also charges far less for tickets ($60 for seats), plays longer shows, and puts on a light show that costs significantly more than PJ's rig. Yet somehow they are able to do it right without charging their fans a) $40 a year for a fan club and b) $90 or more per ticket. Once you see their business model, your view of the frequently lauded "value" of the Ten Club changes.

Could it be that Phish offers more to make up for the dreadful music they put out?
For the record, I'm just kidding! No need to turn this into a "To Phish or Not to Phish" thread.

SatansFuton wrote:

I don't think there is any need for people to be embarrassed. This is the internet. People are going to say and do goofy shit because they can. People are going to argue and bicker over whatever when in reality they probably would never be so bold. Regardless of what was said or done in the thread with Mr. Curtis, there is no need to feel embarrassed or ashamed. I don't know him, I bet most of you don't either. And if you didn't post anything crazy in the thread, it shouldn't be on you. Stop worrying about what you think Kelly must think of us. The dude has a badass job, demanding I'm sure, but I doubt having to read some stupid shit is going to ruin his day. I'm sure he came into this knowing (and I'm sure was warned ahead of time by one of the Mods) that it was going to be nutty, and he powered through it like a big boy. It was some crazy stuff posted on a message board, not a home invasion.

As for the complaining. To be honest I see a lot of the same attitudes on other band forums I visit. You can't please everybody, and given a forum to do it in, those that aren't pleased are going to let it be known. I hang out at the Stones site, and people "bitch" every day. We just got a 40 year old bootleg that nobody thought would ever be released officially, but it came in digital form, and it was an amazing surprise, but there are those that are complaining that there was no physical release, or complaining that Keith's guitar is on the left channel and Taylor's on the right (where it is usually the opposite), and a laundry list of other things ranging from legitimate to (in my opinion) downright silly. In the mind of many of us it is the coolest thing ever, but to others it just isn't good enough. Complaining/bitching is not unique to this community. What is unique (from what I've seen) is the finger pointing, hatred, and preaching to people about how they SHOULD behave that I've seen around here. Even with all those complaints over there (and that's just an example from 1 release) people aren't making it their business to tell those people their opinions are bullshit, and I don't see any arguing or name calling. Just as many complaints, but without the same response.

Whenever something happens around here and there are complaints, it seems to me like the most venemous and hateful comments come from the people responding to the complaints. It seems like whatever "negativity" pops its head out, it is met with 10X as much negativity in return, with multiple threads of people "telling it like it is" that range from preachy (although with some good points often being made) to downright hateful. I was just thinking back to the PJ20 festival and a handful of people had said they weren't too happy with the show (I would have loved to be there, but hey, if they weren't happy they weren't happy) and the sheer amount of hatred towards those people and the crazy amount of threads being started saying those people weren't real fans, calling for people giving negative reviews to be booted from the club, and whatever else was insane. Kat was earning her paycheck and them some just by shutting down all the threads "complaining about the complainers". There were more people jumping all over their asses than there were people who had something negative to say in the first place. And when the film came out, a few people posted reviews that weren't thrilled with it, and they got absolutely railed on with some of the most hateful comments I've seen, all because of a movie.

Negativity is negativity, be it aimed at the band/10C, or aimed at members taking pot shots at the band/10C. Can anybody here honestly say they've never complained? Have we always taken everything life gives us as a gift and always seen the silver lining? I seriously doubt it. Calling people names and talking shit to them only further divides a community that is already pretty divided. Why it is so divided I have no clue, I guess we're just a very opinionated bunch. But threads like this aren't any more constructive than the ones complaining about the band, if anything they're worse for the community because it's calling out other people who participate in the community, who we talk to on a day to day basis, as opposed to the powers that be or people that aren't even on the boards. I don't think Kelly Curtis, the Mods, or the band read the message board with a stream of tears rolling down their face. A band like Pearl Jam and their management do not reach the heights they have without wading through criticism and dealing with unsavory people.

The fact that I'm not being very positive, I'm complaining, and that this long winded post is a bit preachy is not lost on me. And I guess I'm just as guilty as anybody else in feeling the urge to get something off my chest and being somewhat scathing about it. But this shit has been bubbling in my pea-sized brain through all the little mini-dramas taking place around here. The most embarrassing thing, in my opinion, should be the way we treat each other around here. And I say that as somebody who knows I can be a real douchebag sometimes.

Hugh Freaking Dillon wrote:

Paul Andrews and Satansfuton:

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

I stopped listening to AET when it started to become a bitchfest of attacking Tim or whoever else was on. Sure, they addressed issues, but it often went over the top with rudeness.

Paul Andrews wrote:

Spiritual_Chaos wrote:

I stopped listening to AET when it started to become a bitchfest of attacking Tim or whoever else was on. Sure, they addressed issues, but it often went over the top with rudeness.

I don't know what shielded suger-coated life you live but I think most stuff on AET was straight forward and curtious(sp?) enough. Don't remember many rude people calling in(?)

Yeah, one guy said "Hey Matt come, slow down some songs" (if I remember correctly, could be corrected and maybe this was ruder). But people went all defensive over "fragile" Matt and the band which we can not have "critiscm" towards. Like "how dare we critize them or have opinions - they made Vitalogy!" I mean come on.

I mean, many people want them to slower down some of the songs. Why not tell them you think so? Is that rude in itself? No. (and I don't remember that guy being a dick, maybe he was... then I stand corrected on this example)

I don't live in a sugar coated world, I live in the same world as you where people lose their lives over nothing because they bumped up against the wrong person, where politicians behave like babies while accepting bribes from the same interest groups, where people ignore the real issues of life just so long as they get their 'six-pack' every night.

But I think you are right and I over generalised by throwing AET into the list (i think I may have just lost interest in it, especially when my work became very busy), the example you gave was the example I was remembering, and again, it was not the substance of that comment that stood out, it was the manner it was made. And again, this is the point I am making, not that you do not have the right to make a 'negative criticism' - you have every right and I think all opinions are valid. However, that example of a comment about the speed of PJ's songs live could have been a great discussion, but instead the called showed all the guts of pond scum but rudely blurting out 'you play way to fast - you gotta slow those songs down' and then hung up - that's 'troll' behaviour and he was called out for it. He could have addressed this issue by asking why the songs were played faster and if Matt felt this added or subtracted from the live experience. I'm sure Matt would have happily discussed this in a rational manner.

My point is more about manner and respect, not criticism.