Second. If anyone ever wants to read intelligent posts, check out Satansfuton. The guy is always spot on!
Just a quick followup. The main problem here as I see is people take someone disagreeing with their point as a personal attack. (I acknowledge I have been guilty of this.) We also need to realize debate is a good thing and makes this and any board worth going to. Otherwise it would just be "I agree!", "you are so right!", and "great post!".
Paul Andrews makes great points as well. His points about not coming down on the band's management are correct in an ideal world. But I do sympathize with people who have encountered the same problems over and over with regards to purchasing tickets for years. Usually bad service is solved by taking your business elsewhere, but if you want to take advantage of seniority in getting tickets for Pearl Jam this is the only way to do it. And it has been mishandled for a long time. So I understand why some frustration boils over here.
I rather be neither. I don't woship or hate the 10 club. I have opinions on what work and what not. I don't worship Pearl jam (or maybe I do) and I don't hate them. But I do have opinions about choices they do and what songs are great and which one are not.
bringing forth cristism is not the same as being a hater.
"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
I stopped listening to AET when it started to become a bitchfest of attacking Tim or whoever else was on. Sure, they addressed issues, but it often went over the top with rudeness.
I don't know what shielded suger-coated life you live but I think most stuff on AET was straight forward and curtious(sp?) enough. Don't remember many rude people calling in(?)
Yeah, one guy said "Hey Matt come, slow down some songs" (if I remember correctly, could be corrected and maybe this was ruder). But people went all defensive over "fragile" Matt and the band which we can not have "critiscm" towards. Like "how dare we critize them or have opinions - they made Vitalogy!" I mean come on.
I mean, many people want them to slower down some of the songs. Why not tell them you think so? Is that rude in itself? No. (and I don't remember that guy being a dick, maybe he was... then I stand corrected on this example)
"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
I stopped listening to AET when it started to become a bitchfest of attacking Tim or whoever else was on. Sure, they addressed issues, but it often went over the top with rudeness.
I don't know what shielded suger-coated life you live but I think most stuff on AET was straight forward and curtious(sp?) enough. Don't remember many rude people calling in(?)
Yeah, one guy said "Hey Matt come, slow down some songs" (if I remember correctly, could be corrected and maybe this was ruder). But people went all defensive over "fragile" Matt and the band which we can not have "critiscm" towards. Like "how dare we critize them or have opinions - they made Vitalogy!" I mean come on.
I mean, many people want them to slower down some of the songs. Why not tell them you think so? Is that rude in itself? No. (and I don't remember that guy being a dick, maybe he was... then I stand corrected on this example)
I don't live in a sugar coated world, I live in the same world as you where people lose their lives over nothing because they bumped up against the wrong person, where politicians behave like babies while accepting bribes from the same interest groups, where people ignore the real issues of life just so long as they get their 'six-pack' every night.
But I think you are right and I over generalised by throwing AET into the list (i think I may have just lost interest in it, especially when my work became very busy), the example you gave was the example I was remembering, and again, it was not the substance of that comment that stood out, it was the manner it was made. And again, this is the point I am making, not that you do not have the right to make a 'negative criticism' - you have every right and I think all opinions are valid. However, that example of a comment about the speed of PJ's songs live could have been a great discussion, but instead the called showed all the guts of pond scum but rudely blurting out 'you play way to fast - you gotta slow those songs down' and then hung up - that's 'troll' behaviour and he was called out for it. He could have addressed this issue by asking why the songs were played faster and if Matt felt this added or subtracted from the live experience. I'm sure Matt would have happily discussed this in a rational manner.
My point is more about manner and respect, not criticism.
I stopped listening to AET when it started to become a bitchfest of attacking Tim or whoever else was on. Sure, they addressed issues, but it often went over the top with rudeness.
I don't know what shielded suger-coated life you live but I think most stuff on AET was straight forward and curtious(sp?) enough. Don't remember many rude people calling in(?)
Yeah, one guy said "Hey Matt come, slow down some songs" (if I remember correctly, could be corrected and maybe this was ruder). But people went all defensive over "fragile" Matt and the band which we can not have "critiscm" towards. Like "how dare we critize them or have opinions - they made Vitalogy!" I mean come on.
I mean, many people want them to slower down some of the songs. Why not tell them you think so? Is that rude in itself? No. (and I don't remember that guy being a dick, maybe he was... then I stand corrected on this example)
I don't live in a sugar coated world, I live in the same world as you where people lose their lives over nothing because they bumped up against the wrong person, where politicians behave like babies while accepting bribes from the same interest groups, where people ignore the real issues of life just so long as they get their 'six-pack' every night.
But I think you are right and I over generalised by throwing AET into the list (i think I may have just lost interest in it, especially when my work became very busy), the example you gave was the example I was remembering, and again, it was not the substance of that comment that stood out, it was the manner it was made. And again, this is the point I am making, not that you do not have the right to make a 'negative criticism' - you have every right and I think all opinions are valid. However, that example of a comment about the speed of PJ's songs live could have been a great discussion, but instead the called showed all the guts of pond scum but rudely blurting out 'you play way to fast - you gotta slow those songs down' and then hung up - that's 'troll' behaviour and he was called out for it. He could have addressed this issue by asking why the songs were played faster and if Matt felt this added or subtracted from the live experience. I'm sure Matt would have happily discussed this in a rational manner.
My point is more about manner and respect, not criticism.
Like you I don't fully remember that call. But I agree with you if he was trolling. Stupid of me to bring it up, when i don't even remember in what way the caller said it.
But I do think manner and respect goes both ways. But ofc, you do too
And after what happend and KC way of giving vague answers, answering in an indirect (if that is a wor) fashionand avoiding some questions - I don't think people (Sawyer for example) was off in them "telling it like it was".
Post edited by Spiritual_Chaos on
"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
I don't live in a sugar coated world, I live in the same world as you where people lose their lives over nothing because they bumped up against the wrong person, where politicians behave like babies while accepting bribes from the same interest groups, where people ignore the real issues of life just so long as they get their 'six-pack' every night.
But I think you are right and I over generalised by throwing AET into the list (i think I may have just lost interest in it, especially when my work became very busy), the example you gave was the example I was remembering, and again, it was not the substance of that comment that stood out, it was the manner it was made. And again, this is the point I am making, not that you do not have the right to make a 'negative criticism' - you have every right and I think all opinions are valid. However, that example of a comment about the speed of PJ's songs live could have been a great discussion, but instead the called showed all the guts of pond scum but rudely blurting out 'you play way to fast - you gotta slow those songs down' and then hung up - that's 'troll' behaviour and he was called out for it. He could have addressed this issue by asking why the songs were played faster and if Matt felt this added or subtracted from the live experience. I'm sure Matt would have happily discussed this in a rational manner.
My point is more about manner and respect, not criticism.
Well put and more eloquently than I managed the other night. I was trying to make a similar point on the Kelly thread but didn't quite pull it off :thumbup:
Astoria Crew
Troubled souls unite, we got ourselves tonight...
Astoria, Dublin, Reading 06
Katowice, Wembley 07
SBE, Manchester, O2 09
Hyde Park 10
Manchester 1&2 12
This is just g'bye for now...
How am I just finding this thread now? Couldn't agree more with the OP and most of the other comments. Sent 10c a supportive/apologetic email a couple months ago after some of the "limited edition" fiasco. I just really enjoy my daily visits to the forum so much more when the majority of the posts are more positive.
Took the words right out of my mouth, I don't post much but I look often and I have seen the childish postings as well and it's about time that someone posted what most of us are thinking. Thank you and great post!!!!
and grateful to get inside the door of a show..any day, any time, any where, any seat
its true
peace,
jo
http://www.Etsy.com/Shop/SimpleEarthCreations
"How I choose to feel is how I am." ~ EV/MMc
"Some people hear their own inner voices with great clearness and they live by what they hear. Such people become crazy, or they become legends." ~ One Stab ~
Comments
Second. If anyone ever wants to read intelligent posts, check out Satansfuton. The guy is always spot on!
Just a quick followup. The main problem here as I see is people take someone disagreeing with their point as a personal attack. (I acknowledge I have been guilty of this.) We also need to realize debate is a good thing and makes this and any board worth going to. Otherwise it would just be "I agree!", "you are so right!", and "great post!".
Paul Andrews makes great points as well. His points about not coming down on the band's management are correct in an ideal world. But I do sympathize with people who have encountered the same problems over and over with regards to purchasing tickets for years. Usually bad service is solved by taking your business elsewhere, but if you want to take advantage of seniority in getting tickets for Pearl Jam this is the only way to do it. And it has been mishandled for a long time. So I understand why some frustration boils over here.
bringing forth cristism is not the same as being a hater.
Yeah, one guy said "Hey Matt come, slow down some songs" (if I remember correctly, could be corrected and maybe this was ruder). But people went all defensive over "fragile" Matt and the band which we can not have "critiscm" towards. Like "how dare we critize them or have opinions - they made Vitalogy!" I mean come on.
I mean, many people want them to slower down some of the songs. Why not tell them you think so? Is that rude in itself? No. (and I don't remember that guy being a dick, maybe he was... then I stand corrected on this example)
I don't live in a sugar coated world, I live in the same world as you where people lose their lives over nothing because they bumped up against the wrong person, where politicians behave like babies while accepting bribes from the same interest groups, where people ignore the real issues of life just so long as they get their 'six-pack' every night.
But I think you are right and I over generalised by throwing AET into the list (i think I may have just lost interest in it, especially when my work became very busy), the example you gave was the example I was remembering, and again, it was not the substance of that comment that stood out, it was the manner it was made. And again, this is the point I am making, not that you do not have the right to make a 'negative criticism' - you have every right and I think all opinions are valid. However, that example of a comment about the speed of PJ's songs live could have been a great discussion, but instead the called showed all the guts of pond scum but rudely blurting out 'you play way to fast - you gotta slow those songs down' and then hung up - that's 'troll' behaviour and he was called out for it. He could have addressed this issue by asking why the songs were played faster and if Matt felt this added or subtracted from the live experience. I'm sure Matt would have happily discussed this in a rational manner.
My point is more about manner and respect, not criticism.
But I do think manner and respect goes both ways. But ofc, you do too
And after what happend and KC way of giving vague answers, answering in an indirect (if that is a wor) fashionand avoiding some questions - I don't think people (Sawyer for example) was off in them "telling it like it was".
Well put and more eloquently than I managed the other night. I was trying to make a similar point on the Kelly thread but didn't quite pull it off :thumbup:
Troubled souls unite, we got ourselves tonight...
Astoria, Dublin, Reading 06
Katowice, Wembley 07
SBE, Manchester, O2 09
Hyde Park 10
Manchester 1&2 12
This is just g'bye for now...
and grateful to get inside the door of a show..any day, any time, any where, any seat
its true
jo
http://www.Etsy.com/Shop/SimpleEarthCreations
"How I choose to feel is how I am." ~ EV/MMc
"Some people hear their own inner voices with great clearness and they live by what they hear. Such people become crazy, or they become legends." ~ One Stab ~