It seems pretty simple to me, if people don't want a lottery, then change the system to where EVERYONE is not trying to get tickets @ the same time.
Could you imagine if say Best Buy said we are going to sell 42 inch Plasma/LCD TV's the day before Christmas for $200.00 to the members of our rewards program, there is a limited supply they will go on sale on our website @ 8 am eastern time. I can tell you what would happen, the system would crash.........
You simply can not have a system where everyone is trying to get tickets @ the same time, I don't know what the answer is, I only know what the PROBLEM is........
I promise you that even if you haven't heard it yet, there is an extreme level of concern about this. I'm sure it wasn't an easy thing to figure out what was happening and why it was happening when the ticketing procedures weren't working as they were supposed to. Then you have to figure out what to do. They pulled the plug instead of waiting to see if it would clear up so people wouldn't be more inconvenienced but they already were so it was a rock and a hard place. There were still going to be people who were extremely upset. Because of past problems they were trying hard to fix, some people don't want to give the benefit of the doubt and there we are. It's going to work out is all I know right now. It's just going to work out.
Kat,
I think everyone here appreciates your kind (and very human) words. You sound like an actual human being and not some corporate robot toeing the party line. This is really all anyone wants or expects. The problem, however, is that this type of communication came far too late and should have come from someone besides the board moderator. I say that with all due respect. You're not the (only) one who should be communicating this message, you are not the one who made the decisions that led to this farce of a presale, and you're not the one with the power to do anything about it. These sorts of words should be coming from Tim or the band. And again, it's not that we don't appreciate what you have to say. Quite the contrary. But leaving it up to the board moderator to address this issue is ridiculous and a shirking of responsibility on someone else's part. After waiting for a couple of days, glued to our computers, we receive an e-mail that basically slaps us in the face and throws in a heartless "with apologies" at the end. The communication should have been immediate and at least pretending to be sincere. You are sincere, we fans are sincere, the band is sincere. Why are the other "decision makers" so insincere and unwilling to accept responsibility for what by any account was a failure? I do not expect to get tickets because I have a 10C membership. But I do not expect or deserve to be treated in such a condescending manner, either. No fan does.
On an unrelated note, the fact that many of the Euro ticket agencies do not accept non-European credit cards merely makes the situation worse. Even if we want to buy tickets, we cannot. There are easy fixes for this sort of thing, but they were not put into place or likely even considered. The thousands of posts discussing these types of issues have not been addressed by anyone at the PJ organization but you -- and you can't do anything about it. The near total lack of communication on behalf of the organization make it fairly clear that it is not listening to us or reading any of these posts. I think that's called being ignored. Being ignored indicates a lack of concern, a lack of care. Thus, it's pretty easy to see why many of us have concluded that the organization simply does not care about us or what we think. It's kind of hard to pay money for that sort of "treatment."
With all respect, I think we all need to take a breath now and let things get sorted out. Kat and the other Mods have weathered the brunt of this even though by your own admission they are not the ones in charge making th e big decisions. I think Kat has been trying to wave the white flag here. Can we cut her some slack? I know every single person needs to be have their feelings validated these days, but seriously?
You're right, things could have went better, things could have been handled better, I'm sure everyone at 10C and CrowdSurge is making lists of things to do better next time. And who knows what may come of it. All I know is that I am extremely grateful for the work that the 10C, the mods, and the rest of the PJ org does for us, and I am grateful that we get the PRIVILEDGE to have a CHANCE at tickets (that's all we were offered, it's not a right), and most of all grateful that we still have the greatest rock band in the world making music for people like us.
Although I agree that the system needs to be worked on, there are WAY worse things in the world than not getting concert tickets, some people do not even have a home or warm bed to sleep in tonight, we should ALL count or blessings. I'm sure there are people out there that WISH one of their worries or complaints was not getting concert tickets, everyone have a safe and Happy Holidays!
I wonder how many in the first 10 rows or so for the UK shows will be 10C members? One of the best parts of 10C seats is that you will be sitting with other 10c members that love PJ just as much as you do. I cant imagine being next to someone who lucked out and got 3rd row center seats (my ideal seats) then sits through Black,Red,Yellow. I think the band will miss the energy too, there's a distinct possibility there might be people SITTING (GASP) in the first few rows...
There are no seats in front of the stage in Europe. Apart from that I had 10c seats in Toronto (not the best though) and I can tell you when they played crown of thorns most people around me didn't look excited in any way.
2006:Arnhem,Bern,Berlin
2007:München,Düsseldorf,Nijmegen
2008:NY1,NY2,Mansfield1,Mansfield2
2009:London,Rotterdam,Berlin,Manchester,London
2010:NY1,NY2,Dublin,Belfast,Berlin
2011:PJ20,Montreal,TorontoI+II,Hamilton
2012:Amsterdam I+II, Prague, Berlin I+II, Stockholm, Oslo, Copenhagen
2013: Phoenix, San Diego, LA I+II, Oakland
2014: Amsterdam I+II, Vienna, Berlin
2016: Philly I+II, MSG I+II
I think it's getting to the point now where I don't know.. it's silly! This whole thing is silly.
It makes no sense.
You know I watch the PJ20 film and you get a sense of how the band operates and when you look at how they took a step back... thought to themselves "why are we doing this?" "how can we do this" "how can we run this band?" ..... you know a lot of issues are being mentioned on here lately (past 2 years or so) and to me they are warranted.
Some folks have an unconditional love for the band.. but I dunno... some feedback and accountability would be appreciated I think. Especially for those of us who have poured a LOT of time and A LOT of money into this band.
In the last 4 years it's mind boggling to think of all the problems their have been with ticketing issues. And it seemed to take a long time to finally decide to fix the problem. This whole sabotage thing is... well... it's strange to me. And it makes me wonder. It honestly does.
You look at these issues with limited edition merch and the constant flipping. Members being shut out of tickets because of server issues are such. People keep saying on here... "if you don't like it... don't buy it...." or "stop your complaining."
My apologies but we pay for our membership... we belong to something special and we want our voices heard.
I think it's incumbent upon the band and the fan club to do more to at least try and solve these issues. And to be a face. When there are problems or complaints... address them please. Give us your input into how things are being run and why they are being run this way.
I find that the only input I see on here from moderators and ten club employees is either to remind people of what not to do on here and to advertise merchandise. Am I wrong?
Sometimes I feel like a voice amongst hundreds of voices simply not being heard.
You're the best band in the world and incredibly successful.
For those of us who are disappointed at times.. we want to be heard and acknowledged.
There are two theories to all of the complaining on here.
Either a lot of people are a bunch of whiners and complainers..... or a lot could be done to solve problems that is simply not being done.
Toronto 2000
Buffalo, Phoenix, Toronto 2003
Boston I&II 2004
Kitchener, Hamilton, London, Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto 2005
Toronto I&II, Las Vegas 2006
Chicago Lollapalooza 2007
Toronto, Seattle I&II, Vancouver, Philly I,II,III,IV 2009
Cleveland, Buffalo 2010
Toronto I&II 2011
Buffalo 2013 Toronto I&II 2016 10C: 220xxx
Kat,
I posted this in another thread, but hope it will be read and considered:
Regardless of whatever solution is adopted for managing ticket sales, 10c needs to beta-test any new system that is implemented with ample time to identify issues, diagnose the problems, de-bug the code, re-run beta tests, and keep doing this until all issues and bugs are identified and removed.
We are a rabid and dedicated fan base (see: thousands of posts in several ongoing threads on ticket issues in only 2 days) and we will show up in the 10,000s to hammer away at any mock-sale or dry run of a new ticket system.
Exactly - Announce a Series of Tests. Over the next few months for "Shows" that dont exist. Call It "MSG Beta Test" That show always seems to have the most demand. Start with one SHow for the first test, announce to fans that you need help testing the new ticketing method, all it would do is mimic the process.
Then the following test could have 2 Shows, then work your way up to 10 shows...
Either that or Post "Tickets are available", and people just have to add their name to a list over a 48 hour period, then use a randomizer to select the fans from that list who can get tickets, and let them order at their leisure. Then for the next SHow.
Or limit people to shows. But I dont like that Idea as much, but it would allow more fans a chance instead of the lucky ones, I refer to those with money falling otu their wazoo.
......There's a lot of time before the shows and I just know/believe that all of this is going to be worked out and people will have what they need.....
That statement makes me believe you may have another allocation of tix or something? Am I reading something into that statement that isn't there? Should I hold on and wait or *shudder* pay some sonofa***** tout twice the face price?
I wonder how many in the first 10 rows or so for the UK shows will be 10C members? One of the best parts of 10C seats is that you will be sitting with other 10c members that love PJ just as much as you do. I cant imagine being next to someone who lucked out and got 3rd row center seats (my ideal seats) then sits through Black,Red,Yellow. I think the band will miss the energy too, there's a distinct possibility there might be people SITTING (GASP) in the first few rows...
There are no seats in front of the stage in Europe. Apart from that I had 10c seats in Toronto (not the best though) and I can tell you when they played crown of thorns most people around me didn't look excited in any way.
I think it's getting to the point now where I don't know.. it's silly! This whole thing is silly.
It makes no sense.
You know I watch the PJ20 film and you get a sense of how the band operates and when you look at how they took a step back... thought to themselves "why are we doing this?" "how can we do this" "how can we run this band?" ..... you know a lot of issues are being mentioned on here lately (past 2 years or so) and to me they are warranted.
Some folks have an unconditional love for the band.. but I dunno... some feedback and accountability would be appreciated I think. Especially for those of us who have poured a LOT of time and A LOT of money into this band.
In the last 4 years it's mind boggling to think of all the problems their have been with ticketing issues. And it seemed to take a long time to finally decide to fix the problem. This whole sabotage thing is... well... it's strange to me. And it makes me wonder. It honestly does.
You look at these issues with limited edition merch and the constant flipping. Members being shut out of tickets because of server issues are such. People keep saying on here... "if you don't like it... don't buy it...." or "stop your complaining."
My apologies but we pay for our membership... we belong to something special and we want our voices heard.
I think it's incumbent upon the band and the fan club to do more to at least try and solve these issues. And to be a face. When there are problems or complaints... address them please. Give us your input into how things are being run and why they are being run this way.
I find that the only input I see on here from moderators and ten club employees is either to remind people of what not to do on here and to advertise merchandise. Am I wrong?
Sometimes I feel like a voice amongst hundreds of voices simply not being heard.
You're the best band in the world and incredibly successful.
For those of us who are disappointed at times.. we want to be heard and acknowledged.
There are two theories to all of the complaining on here.
Either a lot of people are a bunch of whiners and complainers..... or a lot could be done to solve problems that is simply not being done.
Perhaps the 10 Club could send out an email to fans to let them know they are seeking 'ticketing issues' feedback ?
There are many fans that don't frequent the message boards and as such would not have any idea that this initiative is ongoing. Would every potential fan leave input ? - probably not, but as membership paying fans, should they not be kept in the know ?
I think everyone here appreciates your kind (and very human) words. You sound like an actual human being and not some corporate robot toeing the party line. This is really all anyone wants or expects. The problem, however, is that this type of communication came far too late and should have come from someone besides the board moderator. I say that with all due respect. You're not the (only) one who should be communicating this message, you are not the one who made the decisions that led to this farce of a presale, and you're not the one with the power to do anything about it. These sorts of words should be coming from Tim or the band. And again, it's not that we don't appreciate what you have to say. Quite the contrary. But leaving it up to the board moderator to address this issue is ridiculous and a shirking of responsibility on someone else's part. After waiting for a couple of days, glued to our computers, we receive an e-mail that basically slaps us in the face and throws in a heartless "with apologies" at the end. The communication should have been immediate and at least pretending to be sincere. You are sincere, we fans are sincere, the band is sincere. Why are the other "decision makers" so insincere and unwilling to accept responsibility for what by any account was a failure? I do not expect to get tickets because I have a 10C membership. But I do not expect or deserve to be treated in such a condescending manner, either. No fan does."
I've said nothing on the forum as yet about this week's events - I am trying to take a deep breath and see how the land lies in a few days BUT the post above is dead on.
Things happen and technology fails - what's done is done and cannot be changed - I don't want an explanation about why the sale didn't work, I'd just like to be shown some respect and consideration by a fan club I have been in for 17 years.
I second the appreciation set out above to Kat - thank you - you are the only person so far who has properly acknowledged the turmoil the fans have faced over the last few days.
0
81
Needing a ride to Forest Hills and a ounce of weed. Please inquire within. Thanks. Or not. Posts: 58,276
it appears teh ticket threads are getting out of control again...can you clean them up....thanks in advance.
Kat,
How about we start a thread where someone from the 10c actually addresses some of the comments and valid concerns that have been brought up? You know, from the people who pay good money for these services in uncertain economic times, ensuring that you all have your jobs. This silence is deafening. The lack of any concern and what now looks like acrimony from the 10c towards it's loyal fans reflects poorly not only on yourselves but on Pearl Jam as well.
I don't have information on when more information will be coming but I'm sure that it will. There isn't much I can do about people being upset about tickets. I wish everyone had all the tickets they want with no difficulty at all but my personal wishes won't make that happen. There's a lot of time before the shows and I just know/believe that all of this is going to be worked out and people will have what they need. Discussing tickets here is good but if someone has a personal issue with the Ten Club, they really should just write to them or phone them. The staff will be glad to help everyone they can help. I've created these threads so the issues you're concerned about can be in one place and more easily seen and I hope this helps everyone.
I don't think I quoted the right post from Kat, but I read something where she wrote "and no one's giving us the benefit of the doubt." I'm sorry, but don't you earn the benefit of the doubt? The concept of the Fan Club is great in terms of singles, tickets, t-shirts etc., but my God, how can I give the Ten Club the benefit of the doubt when they do such a poor job of communicating and executing everything? If you had run ticket sales properly in the past before Alpine Valley and Europe, yeah, I'd be like, ok, I get it. But I can't remember a U.S. Presale or Euro Presale that didn't take me at least 2 to 3 hrs. to secure tickets. That's inexcusable. Most fanclub presales take 30 minutes, and I'm done
Look, no one likes to look in a mirror and feel like they do a bad job, but let's call a spade a spade: You guys have not handled any of this well. And it's truly inexplicable that it's the same people every year that we deal with in regards to handling this stuff. Tim, Kat, whomever. Again, you all seem very nice, but I wish I never knew your names. I'm positive you wish you didn't know mine. Fanclub Management is sort of like Refs in football: IF they are doing their job, I won't know your name. I keep having to post on these boards angrily and read this junk because you can't do the job your paid to do: KEEP FANS (CONSUMERS) HAPPY! Hey, Ed, you wanna fix something? Fix your Fanclub management and get some real people in who have dealt with this stuff before.
Comments
Could you imagine if say Best Buy said we are going to sell 42 inch Plasma/LCD TV's the day before Christmas for $200.00 to the members of our rewards program, there is a limited supply they will go on sale on our website @ 8 am eastern time. I can tell you what would happen, the system would crash.........
You simply can not have a system where everyone is trying to get tickets @ the same time, I don't know what the answer is, I only know what the PROBLEM is........
4/5,6/9/2003, 9/1/05, 12/7/2005, 7/15,16,18/2006, 8/5/2007
6/24,25/08,6/27/08,6/28/08,6/30/08
9/21,22/2009, 10/4/2009
5/6,7,9/2010, 9/3/2011 9/4/2011, 11/15/2013,
11/16/2013, 12/8/2013, 10/5/2014, 10/12/2014,
4/23, 5/10, 5/12, 8/20, 8/22 2016,
8/8, 8/10, 8/18, 8/20 2018, 5/12, 5/13, 9/20 2022
With all respect, I think we all need to take a breath now and let things get sorted out. Kat and the other Mods have weathered the brunt of this even though by your own admission they are not the ones in charge making th e big decisions. I think Kat has been trying to wave the white flag here. Can we cut her some slack? I know every single person needs to be have their feelings validated these days, but seriously?
You're right, things could have went better, things could have been handled better, I'm sure everyone at 10C and CrowdSurge is making lists of things to do better next time. And who knows what may come of it. All I know is that I am extremely grateful for the work that the 10C, the mods, and the rest of the PJ org does for us, and I am grateful that we get the PRIVILEDGE to have a CHANCE at tickets (that's all we were offered, it's not a right), and most of all grateful that we still have the greatest rock band in the world making music for people like us.
My $.02
4/5,6/9/2003, 9/1/05, 12/7/2005, 7/15,16,18/2006, 8/5/2007
6/24,25/08,6/27/08,6/28/08,6/30/08
9/21,22/2009, 10/4/2009
5/6,7,9/2010, 9/3/2011 9/4/2011, 11/15/2013,
11/16/2013, 12/8/2013, 10/5/2014, 10/12/2014,
4/23, 5/10, 5/12, 8/20, 8/22 2016,
8/8, 8/10, 8/18, 8/20 2018, 5/12, 5/13, 9/20 2022
2007:München,Düsseldorf,Nijmegen
2008:NY1,NY2,Mansfield1,Mansfield2
2009:London,Rotterdam,Berlin,Manchester,London
2010:NY1,NY2,Dublin,Belfast,Berlin
2011:PJ20,Montreal,TorontoI+II,Hamilton
2012:Amsterdam I+II, Prague, Berlin I+II, Stockholm, Oslo, Copenhagen
2013: Phoenix, San Diego, LA I+II, Oakland
2014: Amsterdam I+II, Vienna, Berlin
2016: Philly I+II, MSG I+II
It makes no sense.
You know I watch the PJ20 film and you get a sense of how the band operates and when you look at how they took a step back... thought to themselves "why are we doing this?" "how can we do this" "how can we run this band?" ..... you know a lot of issues are being mentioned on here lately (past 2 years or so) and to me they are warranted.
Some folks have an unconditional love for the band.. but I dunno... some feedback and accountability would be appreciated I think. Especially for those of us who have poured a LOT of time and A LOT of money into this band.
In the last 4 years it's mind boggling to think of all the problems their have been with ticketing issues. And it seemed to take a long time to finally decide to fix the problem. This whole sabotage thing is... well... it's strange to me. And it makes me wonder. It honestly does.
You look at these issues with limited edition merch and the constant flipping. Members being shut out of tickets because of server issues are such. People keep saying on here... "if you don't like it... don't buy it...." or "stop your complaining."
My apologies but we pay for our membership... we belong to something special and we want our voices heard.
I think it's incumbent upon the band and the fan club to do more to at least try and solve these issues. And to be a face. When there are problems or complaints... address them please. Give us your input into how things are being run and why they are being run this way.
I find that the only input I see on here from moderators and ten club employees is either to remind people of what not to do on here and to advertise merchandise. Am I wrong?
Sometimes I feel like a voice amongst hundreds of voices simply not being heard.
You're the best band in the world and incredibly successful.
For those of us who are disappointed at times.. we want to be heard and acknowledged.
There are two theories to all of the complaining on here.
Either a lot of people are a bunch of whiners and complainers..... or a lot could be done to solve problems that is simply not being done.
Buffalo, Phoenix, Toronto 2003
Boston I&II 2004
Kitchener, Hamilton, London, Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto 2005
Toronto I&II, Las Vegas 2006
Chicago Lollapalooza 2007
Toronto, Seattle I&II, Vancouver, Philly I,II,III,IV 2009
Cleveland, Buffalo 2010
Toronto I&II 2011
Buffalo 2013
Toronto I&II 2016
10C: 220xxx
Exactly - Announce a Series of Tests. Over the next few months for "Shows" that dont exist. Call It "MSG Beta Test" That show always seems to have the most demand. Start with one SHow for the first test, announce to fans that you need help testing the new ticketing method, all it would do is mimic the process.
Then the following test could have 2 Shows, then work your way up to 10 shows...
Either that or Post "Tickets are available", and people just have to add their name to a list over a 48 hour period, then use a randomizer to select the fans from that list who can get tickets, and let them order at their leisure. Then for the next SHow.
Or limit people to shows. But I dont like that Idea as much, but it would allow more fans a chance instead of the lucky ones, I refer to those with money falling otu their wazoo.
That statement makes me believe you may have another allocation of tix or something? Am I reading something into that statement that isn't there? Should I hold on and wait or *shudder* pay some sonofa***** tout twice the face price?
:evil:
- well said. Have a good day.
There are many fans that don't frequent the message boards and as such would not have any idea that this initiative is ongoing. Would every potential fan leave input ? - probably not, but as membership paying fans, should they not be kept in the know ?
'hopefully there are better days ahead.
I've said nothing on the forum as yet about this week's events - I am trying to take a deep breath and see how the land lies in a few days BUT the post above is dead on.
Things happen and technology fails - what's done is done and cannot be changed - I don't want an explanation about why the sale didn't work, I'd just like to be shown some respect and consideration by a fan club I have been in for 17 years.
I second the appreciation set out above to Kat - thank you - you are the only person so far who has properly acknowledged the turmoil the fans have faced over the last few days.
I don't think I quoted the right post from Kat, but I read something where she wrote "and no one's giving us the benefit of the doubt." I'm sorry, but don't you earn the benefit of the doubt? The concept of the Fan Club is great in terms of singles, tickets, t-shirts etc., but my God, how can I give the Ten Club the benefit of the doubt when they do such a poor job of communicating and executing everything? If you had run ticket sales properly in the past before Alpine Valley and Europe, yeah, I'd be like, ok, I get it. But I can't remember a U.S. Presale or Euro Presale that didn't take me at least 2 to 3 hrs. to secure tickets. That's inexcusable. Most fanclub presales take 30 minutes, and I'm done
Look, no one likes to look in a mirror and feel like they do a bad job, but let's call a spade a spade: You guys have not handled any of this well. And it's truly inexplicable that it's the same people every year that we deal with in regards to handling this stuff. Tim, Kat, whomever. Again, you all seem very nice, but I wish I never knew your names. I'm positive you wish you didn't know mine. Fanclub Management is sort of like Refs in football: IF they are doing their job, I won't know your name. I keep having to post on these boards angrily and read this junk because you can't do the job your paid to do: KEEP FANS (CONSUMERS) HAPPY! Hey, Ed, you wanna fix something? Fix your Fanclub management and get some real people in who have dealt with this stuff before.
Warren