I think we need to tread lightly...

135

Comments

  • F5AgainstOneF5AgainstOne New Hampshire, USA Posts: 1,462
    phungi wrote:
    OP: you do realize that for every 100,000 members, the 10c brings in about $3,000,000 (based on 50% Analog and 50% Digital memberships), and this is likely a higher number if you include international members.

    I do not know the number of active paid members, but would guess it is in the 250,000 range.

    That makes this a business with a $7,500,000 annual gross. Personally, I have no clue where all this profit goes, but if you take away ticket sales, and fan club membership plummets by exponentially (perhaps by 75-90%).

    You can still run a nice club with $750,000-1,000,000 annual income, but not with several staff members' salaries, a large building, insurance, etc.

    All that said, I think you have it backwards... 10c needs to tread lightly...
    There are currently 89,849 Paid memberships.
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  • DS1119DS1119 Posts: 33,497
    vital5 wrote:
    [ find it funny that the people complaining probably joined for the sole purpose of being able to purchase tickets... which in turn means the demand for all the fans, new or old cannot in any way be met.
    So the people that joined exclusively to get tickets have actually ruined it for themselves :)



    Yup. :thumbup:
  • I'm not really sure why I read this... the bitching is insane! Does it suck spending hours pressing F5 and then not getting tickets? yeah of course it does... but there can't be that large enough number that would leave with no presale when you factor in the internationals who don't and can't count on regular tours and those people who were members before the introduction of the presales. Then you have to factor in all the more recent US members who have the same basic philosophy and reason for being a member as those above.
    I know I'll be accused of defending 10C and for what reason blah blah blah but can anyone think that they enjoy all these fuck ups and the inevitable complaints afterwards all that much more than we do? Seriously I'm sure they would much rather find a way to make it all work so that they wouldn't have to hear all this shit.
    I really hope they don't take away our pre-sales - although I don't think they will, 'would say they are trying to fix this (why wouldn't they - seriously!). If they do take them away so be it - I'm not going anywhere.
    And as people keep saying if you are so upset at the value for money of your membership - QUIT. simple
    I don't mean to offend anyone, a lot of what I say should be taken with a grain of salt... that said for most of you I'm a stranger on a computer on the other side of the world, don't give me that sort of power!
  • DS1119DS1119 Posts: 33,497
    I'm not really sure why I read this... the bitching is insane! Does it suck spending hours pressing F5 and then not getting tickets? yeah of course it does... but there can't be that large enough number that would leave with no presale when you factor in the internationals who don't and can't count on regular tours and those people who were members before the introduction of the presales. Then you have to factor in all the more recent US members who have the same basic philosophy and reason for being a member as those above.
    I know I'll be accused of defending 10C and for what reason blah blah blah but can anyone think that they enjoy all these fuck ups and the inevitable complaints afterwards all that much more than we do? Seriously I'm sure they would much rather find a way to make it all work so that they wouldn't have to hear all this shit.
    I really hope they don't take away our pre-sales - although I don't think they will, 'would say they are trying to fix this (why wouldn't they - seriously!). If they do take them away so be it - I'm not going anywhere.
    And as people keep saying if you are so upset at the value for money of your membership - QUIT. simple


    :thumbup: :clap: Well said!
  • DS1119 wrote:

    How many fan club members was there in the early 90's?....This is 2011....There is one reason why there is so many in the fan club now....TICKETS!!!!

    How is limited edition items making money for the club there not getting the revenue from the flippers , they probably could have doubled there money with these pj20 items and still sold out just by producing more

    Jeremy


    Not every member would leave if they did away with presales. Not nearly as many as you think either. You don't think lost revenue for the Club couldn't be made up with Limited Edition items? Have you watched just the last three months here? Breaking the Club's balls here isn't going to change the past.

    yeah but 80000+ members and 2-3 thousand products per limited edition item wtf who benefits from these limited edditions not the ten club! , not the fans because theres not enough to go round! the only people that benifit are the flippers because they make an insane profit on it . who cares for limited edition items just release them , you have gone to the cost of producing it let everyone who wants it be able to buy , 10c make more profit , the fans hunger for things are satisfied and the flippers are flopped . i havent done no business degree im just a sparky but that makes more sense to me.
  • IamTomIamTom Posts: 1,138
    I'm thinking I couldn't care if the 10c went down.

    Honestly.

    I was reminded to renew my membership so I could get tickets.

    Hmmm....good investment.

    Waste of time and money.
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  • dwhite76dwhite76 Posts: 2,801
    phungi wrote:
    OP: you do realize that for every 100,000 members, the 10c brings in about $3,000,000 (based on 50% Analog and 50% Digital memberships), and this is likely a higher number if you include international members.

    I do not know the number of active paid members, but would guess it is in the 250,000 range.

    That makes this a business with a $7,500,000 annual gross. Personally, I have no clue where all this profit goes, but if you take away ticket sales, and fan club membership plummets by exponentially (perhaps by 75-90%).

    You can still run a nice club with $750,000-1,000,000 annual income, but not with several staff members' salaries, a large building, insurance, etc.

    All that said, I think you have it backwards... 10c needs to tread lightly...
    There are currently 89,849 Paid memberships.

    WOW 80,000 paid members equals 2.67 million $$$$$$$$$$$$ I multiplied by $30 because not everyone pays $40 and not every one pays $20 so I did $30 as a average. almost 3 million on just memberships is not a club its a business.

    With that said It seems like a tough balancing act being for the fans (friends) and for the business. friends dont put food on the table so the business side will always win.

    I hate that this ticket crap happened and Im sure 10 club dont sit around trying to screw people out of tix and merch. I dont think they worry to much about us crying about not getting ticks or merch either.

    I just think with all the money or profit that the 10 club makes that they would be able to handle traffic for their own sales. It dont make sense not to invest in a way to make transactions run smooth.
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  • veddertownveddertown Scotland Posts: 5,260
    DS1119 wrote:
    veddertown wrote:
    but if you were to buy a boot with a song missing you'd be the first to start a Song X Missing From Show X WTF!!!!!:


    Kind of take offense to this. I have actually never posted anything bashing the fan club other than the price of the PJ20 book which was cheaper else where, so you know what I did, I purchased it elsewhere. I may joke which is my nature, but I have never out right bitched about the club, you know why? I have the right to walk away at anytime like anyone else. They aren't holding me here. What they offer me is something much more than tickets and what some people call cheap merchandise. This forum is well worth the membership fees. I have talked about things with members here over the past ten months that I haven't talked about with my friends or family. I see people getting random gifts and donations from other members in times of need. I read stories daily here of people going through tough times and be lifted up by other members. That shit is priceless to me. Not the bitching. If a member thinks something is overpriced...don't buy it. You have no use for the Christmas single, send it to someone who can appreciate it. If people don't understand your analog shirt, screw it who cares?? I feel the Ten Club will figure this out.
    Sorry, I don't mean it to be offensive. I should maybe have said it more generally instead of making it sound like a personal dig. You know what I mean I hope, sometimes people praise 10c in good times and turn on them the moment something isn't to their liking. I may love it here but tickets are a big aspect and if it's part of the membership fee I feel they should at least deliver. The forum is my first place to check in to every day and like you I share a lot of personal things with members. I think as a whole this place needs a shake up as far as how it is managed. We get most of our info second hand which I think is really wrong.
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  • Been a member on and off since '94 and only scored tickets once on a pre-sale. Despite that fact, I still renew my membership every year (I'm much better at remembering now!!). I plan on being a member until this trip comes to an end, even if pre sales were eliminated.
    I'm a PJ geek, it's what I do....
  • V VV V Posts: 5,191
    DS1119 wrote:
    I know I posted a thread earlier that was kind of joking around about the bitching...and to me it is funny. Got me thinking however. What if the Ten Club decides to just do away with ticket presales?

    then most of the fans will do away with the fan club, pre sales is its main feature
    anyway don't the band always promote having a VOICE not treading lightly, I agree bitching and shutting is pointless but having your say is good.
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  • beeswaxbeeswax Posts: 119
    thank you, DS1119.

    i remember the postcard when i joined the club.
    it said something like "sorry if it takes longer, but we're just two humans".

    i know, times have changed.. but over the years, i always got a friendly answer to questions, i was always lucky to get the tickets i wanted. but if i wasn't - and i know i was just lucky every time - i'd buy regular tickets and enjoy the show. even if being a member, i know it's not 100% guaranteed that i will have 10c tickets, right?

    and who knows how many tickets they sold via crowdsurge already? maybe they sold 80% already, but still 60% of people are complaining - who might not have been able to get tickets via crowdsurge anyway?

    maybe i'm bit more relaxed about it as i am not in it only for the tickets. and because i know it's not the end of the world if i don't get wristbands and get to the front. the band won't marry me anyway :) (sidenote: i've been to many concerts, but never experienced that kind of aggressiveness as i did at pearl jam shows).

    and honestly - it's not the 10club i'm upset about. it's some fans behaving like egoistic aggressive kids here. do i really want to be part of that?

    don't get me wrong, it's okay to complain or leave the 10c if one's dissapointed. but the choice of words scare me. if i was the 10c i wouldn't want to spend my time trying to work out something for those kind of people. even if pearl jam played in their living room they'd still find something to complain, i bet.

    and what if they don't tour at all? well, no soup for you ;)
    dwhite76 wrote:
    WOW 80,000 paid members equals 2.67 million $$$$$$$$$$$$
    minus wages, production costs, shipping costs..
  • DS1119DS1119 Posts: 33,497
    V V wrote:
    DS1119 wrote:
    I know I posted a thread earlier that was kind of joking around about the bitching...and to me it is funny. Got me thinking however. What if the Ten Club decides to just do away with ticket presales?

    then most of the fans will do away with the fan club, pre sales is its main feature
    anyway don't the band always promote having a VOICE not treading lightly, I agree bitching and shutting is pointless but having your say is good.


    I disagree that most of the members would leave if the presale went away. Also, when we signed up with the Club it only states a "chance" for Ten CLub tickets right? Well, therer was a chance Tuesday...a small chance that didn't work out for some, but a chance. I personally know of a shit ton of members who got tickets to the European concerts they wanted.
  • smithnicsmithnic Posts: 1,563
    DS1119 wrote:
    V V wrote:
    DS1119 wrote:
    I know I posted a thread earlier that was kind of joking around about the bitching...and to me it is funny. Got me thinking however. What if the Ten Club decides to just do away with ticket presales?

    then most of the fans will do away with the fan club, pre sales is its main feature
    anyway don't the band always promote having a VOICE not treading lightly, I agree bitching and shutting is pointless but having your say is good.


    I disagree that most of the members would leave if the presale went away. Also, when we signed up with the Club it only states a "chance" for Ten CLub tickets right? Well, therer was a chance Tuesday...a small chance that didn't work out for some, but a chance. I personally know of a shit ton of members who got tickets to the European concerts they wanted.


    Why would you still be a member if the presale went away? For the shirt and the 4th of July vinyl single? And I'm calling you out on your ridiculous hyperbole of saying a "shit ton of members got tickets". 2000 lbs equal a ton, roughly 200 lbs per person would mean 1000. I'm guessing that shit ton is equal to a regular ton but I'll let you decide that one.
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  • DS1119DS1119 Posts: 33,497
    edited December 2011
    smithnic wrote:
    Why would you still be a member if the presale went away? For the shirt and the 4th of July vinyl single? And I'm calling you out on your ridiculous hyperbole of saying a "shit ton of members got tickets". 2000 lbs equal a ton, roughly 200 lbs per person would mean 1000. I'm guessing that shit ton is equal to a regular ton but I'll let you decide that one.


    :lol: FUnny about the shit ton comment. I'd still be a member for PJ Radio (no need to pay a monthly fee for satellite radio), the forums, the XMas single, the magazine, and the chance for merchandise. For 40 bucks a year, not a bad deal at all. For members that only pay the membership fee for the small chance of getting Ten CLub tickets and then bitch and complain the rest of the year when they don't, I question their motive and mentality far more to be honest with you.
    Post edited by DS1119 on
  • There are currently 89,849 Paid memberships.

    That list is not accurate. They have told me this. There are well over 200,000 10 Club members.

    Also, I would remain a 10 Club member with or without ticket sales.
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  • boyo79boyo79 Warrington, UK Posts: 6,525
    There are currently 89,849 Paid memberships.

    That list is not accurate. They have told me this. There are well over 200,000 10 Club members.

    Also, I would remain a 10 Club member with or without ticket sales.

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  • High Fidelity 2000High Fidelity 2000 New Mexico USA Posts: 4,439
    In the early 90s, a membership cost $5. Not $40. Plus, they make plenty of money off the tickets sold through here, too. I doubt they'd get rid of it. The last great ticket-sales were in 2003 when it was send in notecards. If Ten Club can't roll with the technology of today, maybe they should go back to notecards. I'd prefer it actually.
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  • DS1119DS1119 Posts: 33,497
    In the early 90s, a membership cost $5. Not $40. Plus, they make plenty of money off the tickets sold through here, too. I doubt they'd get rid of it. The last great ticket-sales were in 2003 when it was send in notecards. If Ten Club can't roll with the technology of today, maybe they should go back to notecards. I'd prefer it actually.


    I believe it was ten dollars not five dollars. They also didn't maintain a website and have PJ Radio either.
  • pdalowskypdalowsky Doncaster,UK Posts: 15,123
    DS1119 wrote:
    If the 10c did away the 10c tickets....There won't be a 10c....That your answer plain as day....Who is going to pay 20 or 40 bucks to buy questionalbe quality t-shirts.....

    Jeremy


    The same members who in 1991, 1992, 1993, 1994, and 1995 when tickets weren't a perk of the club. All we got were the single, newsletter, and a brochure to buy merchandise.

    so the pre internet days when that was the best way of getting band updates?

    I sure as hell dont wanna see the tenclub go, definitely not though, and agree to an extent with the OP. Critisism isnt going to work so well, we just need to hope that a solution can be found. But one thing is certain round here, what is decided will never suit everyone.
  • Dead Man WalkingDead Man Walking Toronto-ish Posts: 2,762
    pdalowsky wrote:
    But one thing is certain round here, what is decided will never suit everyone.
    Yeah, but the status quo is not suiting anyone.
  • ChrisileinChrisilein Vienna/Austria Posts: 3,905
    eyejacker wrote:
    I disagree about the tickets being the only reason for being here... I will never let my membership lapse...
    I'm here for the band and the community...

    same here, though I'm really disappointed that two members living in the same household are not allowed to buy two pair of TC tickets. So why do we pay 2 times $ 50 international membership?
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  • KatKat Posts: 4,940
    DS1119 wrote:
    In the early 90s, a membership cost $5. Not $40. Plus, they make plenty of money off the tickets sold through here, too. I doubt they'd get rid of it. The last great ticket-sales were in 2003 when it was send in notecards. If Ten Club can't roll with the technology of today, maybe they should go back to notecards. I'd prefer it actually.


    I believe it was ten dollars not five dollars. They also didn't maintain a website and have PJ Radio either.

    I paid $5 when I first joined, early nineties. What a deal.

    Don't forget...the ticketing discussion is at viewtopic.php?f=4&t=178855

    Please keep it there. Thanks.
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  • ClaireackClaireack Posts: 13,561
    You know what, I would have loved presale tickets, but right now I am just incredibly pleased I have got any tickets and getting those were thanks to another 10c member (Redrock), someone who I wouldn't have met without the club. I also got RATM tickets because I was helped out by another club member (Jennytree), I also probably wouldn't have seen the Foo Fighters last year either. Plus all the gifts/prizes I've won from being on here.

    The people that I have met on here who have helped me out/shared things with me have made paying the fee worthwhile. I'm not a collecter, I have only seen PJ twice (so far), but I'm really glad I joined even if the pre-sale was a complete clusterfuck (I do like that word).

    But I guess that is just my opinion.
  • DS1119DS1119 Posts: 33,497
    Kat wrote:
    DS1119 wrote:
    In the early 90s, a membership cost $5. Not $40. Plus, they make plenty of money off the tickets sold through here, too. I doubt they'd get rid of it. The last great ticket-sales were in 2003 when it was send in notecards. If Ten Club can't roll with the technology of today, maybe they should go back to notecards. I'd prefer it actually.


    I believe it was ten dollars not five dollars. They also didn't maintain a website and have PJ Radio either.

    I paid $5 when I first joined, early nineties. What a deal.

    Don't forget...the ticketing discussion is at http://community.pearljam.com/viewtopic ... 4&t=178855

    Please keep it there. Thanks.


    I stand corrected.
  • NamiNami Newfoundland Posts: 5,998
    i hate the thought of losing presale tix...

    If i had to rely on TM, I would be in the nose bleeds everytime, but would still rock my ass off.
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  • DS1119DS1119 Posts: 33,497
    Nami wrote:
    i hate the thought of losing presale tix...

    If i had to rely on TM, I would be in the nose bleeds everytime, but would still rock my ass off.


    I would hate the loss too!!
  • DS1119 wrote:
    What if the Ten Club decides to just do away with ticket presales?

    Then I won't be in the Ten Club any longer.
  • kellanazziekellanazzie Posts: 1,484
    edited December 2011
    Hey DS1119...

    :thumbup: :clap:

    "Good on ya"...in the seventies, I lived & breathed a glorious band...it was all about Led Zeppelin. Cut to 1980, we had tickets to see them at the Pontiac Silverdome. Could of been level 1 at the 50 yard line, could of been holding kleenex to my nose..I DID NOT CARE...we were going to experience the most amazing night of our lives! Two weeks later...John Bonham was dead...fan devastation. Tickets useless. No more Zeppelin. Afterwards, through the years, I saw Plant, alone, with Page. I saw Page, with Plant, with other bands, all amazing but not the same, not ever again. And then, thinking the magic would never happen again...1991 (for me), along came Pearl Jam. A friend brought a tape to one of my infamous parties. I was hooked.
    I may be a new paying member here, but I am not new to this site...many times over the years I have read the forums, I just could not post. While I always wanted to join, I never did, until this year. Getting tickets was an afterthought. I don't mind sitting up in the nether-regions...how fricken amazing to see the undulating masses below, to see the panorama of lighters glowing, to be a part of thousands singing along. I get the passion of wanting to catch a pick, or have Ed point at you. My inner self longs to be front & centre just once & I am insanely jealous of seeing how many concerts some are so lucky to have been a part of. Anyway, I'm am sorry for the dissappointments, gawd, life is so fuckin' full of them. My friend lost her stomach, spleen, small intestines etc to cancer, she couldn't eat for a couple of months. However, she saw Kid Rock not long ago, up in the nose-bleeds & was just happy to BE.
    My reasons for being here now? My passion for this band, their music, & their commitment to the music, which has never wavered. Got my shirt, I like it...got my first PJ vinyl yesterday, lovely. Most importantly, I've got my music. We've still got Pearl Jam, after 20 years!! Still, making the music...give me more.
    Already I have seen the generous people here, joined the Secret Santa group, met new friends, laughed my ass off at "why now you don't be bitching??", helped when I could, received e-mails, friend requests out of the blue etc.
    So far, its been great & the next time, fingers crossed, Pearl Jam comes to Michigan (because I don't think Windsor is on their to-play list) hopefully I'll be up in the bleeder section, where I can just BE.
    Post edited by kellanazzie on
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