Don’t Play the ‘Offence Card’
Comments
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Prince Of Dorkness wrote:aerial wrote:So can we say just about everyone is a bigot, hater, racist or some kind phobic. We should scrap those words. We are all “every day people”
I'll tell you what...
you give me every right that you have, you give my marriage the same legal standing as yours, you allow me to adopt children, you allow me to not get evicted from my house for being gay, not get fired from my job for being gay and not be tied to a fence and beaten to death for being gay...
you make me equal to you... and in return I'll never bring it up again. And then I will agree we're all "every day people."
Until then, I'm so sorry if my standing up for myself and fighting for my rights and demanding a bit of respect upsets you so.
Try prune juice.
a great deal with these greivences are protected rights
if you get evicted, get fired or tied to a fence and beaten for being gay are not allowed in all western societys.
I just wished most of these minority groups would just harden the fuck up and get on with life. sure it aint perfect but it aint the dark ages eitherAUSSIE AUSSIE AUSSIE0 -
Prince Of Dorkness wrote:By the way, can I just say that the vast majority of the posters here really do cement my faith in humanity?
I know, when I read posts here, that things are going to turn out just fine for us all.
Now you may be offended by my post about hardening up I just posted. I do want you to know that I am completly in favour/support everyone being eqeal before the law. Im more so over the whinging that a lot do go on with. when compared to the majority of humanity are having a great great fantastic life filled with oppertunities regardless of colour, sex or sexuality.AUSSIE AUSSIE AUSSIE0 -
ONCE DEVIDED wrote:Now you may be offended by my post about hardening up I just posted. I do want you to know that I am completly in favour/support everyone being eqeal before the law. Im more so over the whinging that a lot do go on with. when compared to the majority of humanity are having a great great fantastic life filled with oppertunities regardless of colour, sex or sexuality.
Really.
Tell that the the jury today in Oxnard who gave us a mistrial in the murder of a 13 year-old gay kid who was blamed for his own murder... for being so damn gay.
I'm going to say, my friend, that I'm a fuck of a lot more hard-assed than most of the straight men who wimpier like babies every time I remind them I'm in the room. If you think that my standing up for myself is a sign of weakness, or "whining," you're wrong.
I dare you to go stand up for yourself against a huge number of people who tell you to shut up and just deal with having less. See how you buckle when you're told to get back to the back of the bus and be happy with the scraps thrown at you.
Not me.0 -
ONCE DEVIDED wrote:if you get evicted, get fired or tied to a fence and beaten for being gay are not allowed in all western societys.
Sadly.. you're wrong about that.
I can't be arsed to scroll back but I list the number of states where you can be evicted or fired for being gay. And it's the vast majority of them.0 -
I talk globally not good old USA. and about the west, democratic society.
of course you could be gay in a a hardline fundamentalistic country. usuall your executed for it in those.
thus my point
you have it very good, many have so much less
but pooor poor you. your marraige isnt recognised
it shouldnt happen but it does.
my life aint a bunch of roses, but im thankfull for it and will work to make my world a better place.
look at the improvments over the last 60 years in regards to all sorts of individual rights.
sure right now all of your wants are not met, buut a little patience and in your lifetime they may be metAUSSIE AUSSIE AUSSIE0 -
ONCE DEVIDED wrote:I talk globally not good old USA. and about the west, democratic society.
of course you could be gay in a a hardline fundamentalistic country. usuall your executed for it in those.
thus my point
you have it very good, many have so much less
but pooor poor you. your marraige isnt recognised
it shouldnt happen but it does.
my life aint a bunch of roses, but im thankfull for it and will work to make my world a better place.
look at the improvments over the last 60 years in regards to all sorts of individual rights.
sure right now all of your wants are not met, buut a little patience and in your lifetime they may be met
Sadly, this is what we hear so often- "If you lived in such and such a country you'd be much worse off", or "Things are so much bettertoday than they were sixty years ago." If you were gay and denied the rights we straights have or if you were American Indian and still living with the residue of the bullshit "treaties" handed down or if you were black or brown and pulled over by cops more frequently than your white counter parts or if you were Latino and lived in the southwest and got stopped regularly to have your I.D. checked, then statements like those would offer you very little if any comfort.
Yes, working to make (your or the?) world a better place is a wonderful thing and we would all do well to engage in that endeavor but we would also all do well to look at the reality of bigotry and bias that still runs stongly in this country in this period of time. Changing the hatred takes more than just having a little patience. I am the 60 years you talk about and judging by how things have changed in that time, I'd say that change is way too slow."It's a sad and beautiful world"-Roberto Benigni0 -
ONCE DEVIDED wrote:you have it very good, many have so much less
Herein lies the flaw in your reasoning. One's life doesn't become good just because someone else has less. "More" is the contrast to less, not "good". But it's this kind of faulty reasoning that has been used to keep people oppressed for centuries. Those people you speak of in other countries who have it so much worse are being told the same thing.0 -
ONCE DEVIDED wrote:look at the improvments over the last 60 years in regards to all sorts of individual rights.
sure right now all of your wants are not met, buut a little patience and in your lifetime they may be met
And that is where you are 100% wrong.
The improvements over the last 60 years weren't won by people who politely and patiently sat at home. Dr. Martin Luthor King and Harvey Milk didn't make changes happen by going out of their way to not annoy the straight,white people in control of the rights... they took to the street, they marched, they campaigned, they didn't stop talking about it and they didn't ever give up the fight.
So... stop telling me to pipe down because I annoy you with my "whining."
If you want me to shut up... good. So do I.
Fight to get me my equal rights and I'll never mention it again.
Deal?Post edited by Prince Of Dorkness on0 -
brianlux wrote:Sadly, this is what we hear so often- "If you lived in such and such a country you'd be much worse off", or "Things are so much bettertoday than they were sixty years ago." If you were gay and denied the rights we straights have or if you were American Indian and still living with the residue of the bullshit "treaties" handed down or if you were black or brown and pulled over by cops more frequently than your white counter parts or if you were Latino and lived in the southwest and got stopped regularly to have your I.D. checked, then statements like those would offer you very little if any comfort.
A very good point.
Back in the 80s I remember writing a paper for college about gay history and I talked to one of the local bar owners in Toronto. He said that for years he fought to get a permit to open a gay bar. He was always denied by the city when they found out that he was a gay man who planned on opening up a small pub in the Church/Wellesley area.
The "gay" bars through the 50s to the 70s were all run by the mafia. They were often raided, bar owners walking away unscathed but the patrons arrested for simply being there.
When he tried to stand up to city hall for a gay-owned bar, he was told "you're lucky you have a place to go at all."
Being told "you'll just have to be content to have less and be happy we don't behead you like they do in Saudi Arabia" just isn't going to cut it.0 -
Smellyman wrote:Prince Of Dorkness wrote:aerial wrote:In all sincerity, I would never want to see you hurt, or anyone else. It does not bother me at all that you are fighting for what you feel is right.
Well good. There's a place we can start.It is just the same repetitive post that gets on my last nerve.
well then... why not join the fight to get me and my family (and the families of all GLBT people) the equality we ask for, and we won't have anything to "cry" about anymore and you'll never have to deal with it again.
I admire your tenacity, but you won't change her mind.
http://community.pearljam.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=144697&p=3324459&hilit=gay#p3324459
Looks like you missed the point......
"Right now the most important agenda for Washington needs to be the economy and jobs."
Who could disagree with that?“We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution.” Abraham Lincoln0 -
aerial wrote:
Looks like you missed the point......
"Right now the most important agenda for Washington needs to be the economy and jobs."
Who could disagree with that?
All of the current sitting republicans who've done fuck all to help create jobs but have gone right for their social wedge issues like gay marrige and abortion and weakening the power of collective bargaining to create a poor working class.
And me.
Because I have a job and I work in an industry that's doing just fine economically. So since you don't care about my rights, why should I give a shit about the issues that matter to you?
Until we live in an equal and just society, I don't think we live in a free society.
And I think, quite honestly, that our leaders are quite capable of passing a few laws to protect my rights while they also try to create more jobs for you.0 -
Prince Of Dorkness wrote:ONCE DEVIDED wrote:look at the improvments over the last 60 years in regards to all sorts of individual rights.
sure right now all of your wants are not met, buut a little patience and in your lifetime they may be met
And that is where you are 100% wrong.
The improvements over the last 60 years weren't won by people who politely and patiently sat at home. Dr. Martin Luthor King and Harvey Milk didn't make changes happen by going out of their way to not annoy the straight,white people in control of the rights... they took to the street, they marched, they campaigned, they didn't stop talking about it and they didn't ever give up the fight.
So... stop telling me to pipe down because I annoy you with my "whining."
If you want me to shut up... good. So do I.
Fight to get me my equal rights and I'll never mention it again.
Deal?
so you have it a lot better than a lot of others. but you feel I should support you in your quest to be equal.
I disagree I much rather would support them get closer to our standards.
sure your right, your oppertunities may be limited due to our christian based society. you should be equal in all ways. i do agree
but
Many others need us to stand up for them, sure the situation with you is not fair, but with them its downright fucking criminal
you can live with the partner of choice . they cannot even be seen as having that particular sexual persuation because of fear of death
when I stand there i see people all around , people the same as me . the same love for their family and freinds
different situations BUT ALL THE SAME
we all deserve the same
all of us
why should you get all your want before others are brought up to your levelAUSSIE AUSSIE AUSSIE0 -
Prince Of Dorkness wrote:aerial wrote:
Looks like you missed the point......
"Right now the most important agenda for Washington needs to be the economy and jobs."
Who could disagree with that?
All of the current sitting republicans who've done fuck all to help create jobs but have gone right for their social wedge issues like gay marrige and abortion and weakening the power of collective bargaining to create a poor working class.
And me.
Because I have a job and I work in an industry that's doing just fine economically. So since you don't care about my rights, why should I give a shit about the issues that matter to you?
Until we live in an equal and just society, I don't think we live in a free society.
And I think, quite honestly, that our leaders are quite capable of passing a few laws to protect my rights while they also try to create more jobs for you.
Those kinds of comments make you sound arrogant and selfish. I have a job also, but I care about people that do not!“We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution.” Abraham Lincoln0 -
aerial wrote:Those kinds of comments make you sound arrogant and selfish. I have a job also, but I care about people that do not!
You're the one who said "you can get married in some states" as if that should be enough. You're the one with the rights telling me that I should be happy with less and that I should focus only on things that YOU care about and pipe down about the things that don't matter to you.
Don't play the "arrogant and selfish" card with me. You will lose.0 -
ONCE DEVIDED wrote:so you have it a lot better than a lot of others. but you feel I should support you in your quest to be equal.
I disagree I much rather would support them get closer to our standards.
sure your right, your oppertunities may be limited due to our christian based society. you should be equal in all ways. i do agree
but
Many others need us to stand up for them, sure the situation with you is not fair, but with them its downright fucking criminal
you can live with the partner of choice . they cannot even be seen as having that particular sexual persuation because of fear of death
when I stand there i see people all around , people the same as me . the same love for their family and freinds
different situations BUT ALL THE SAME
we all deserve the same
all of us
why should you get all your want before others are brought up to your level
So wait... before you will support me standing up for myself and my family's equality in America, you think I should instead just drop that and try to change anti-gay laws in Saudi Arabia and Jakarta.
Must be nice up in that ivory tower of yours... telling me that you won't let me in until I change the rest of the world first.
Sorry. No.0 -
ONCE DEVIDED wrote:Prince Of Dorkness wrote:ONCE DEVIDED wrote:look at the improvments over the last 60 years in regards to all sorts of individual rights.
sure right now all of your wants are not met, buut a little patience and in your lifetime they may be met
And that is where you are 100% wrong.
The improvements over the last 60 years weren't won by people who politely and patiently sat at home. Dr. Martin Luthor King and Harvey Milk didn't make changes happen by going out of their way to not annoy the straight,white people in control of the rights... they took to the street, they marched, they campaigned, they didn't stop talking about it and they didn't ever give up the fight.
So... stop telling me to pipe down because I annoy you with my "whining."
If you want me to shut up... good. So do I.
Fight to get me my equal rights and I'll never mention it again.
Deal?
so you have it a lot better than a lot of others. but you feel I should support you in your quest to be equal.
I disagree I much rather would support them get closer to our standards.
sure your right, your oppertunities may be limited due to our christian based society. you should be equal in all ways. i do agree
but
Many others need us to stand up for them, sure the situation with you is not fair, but with them its downright fucking criminal
you can live with the partner of choice . they cannot even be seen as having that particular sexual persuation because of fear of death
when I stand there i see people all around , people the same as me . the same love for their family and freinds
different situations BUT ALL THE SAME
we all deserve the same
all of us
why should you get all your want before others are brought up to your level
Why SHOULDN'T he?? :? It's not a zero-sum game. We can support equality & justice for EVERYONE.0 -
I'm dumbfounded by the nasty turn this thread has taken. Wow.
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So I can look forward to not seeing laws such as DOMA, more drug laws, etc..?aerial wrote:
Looks like you missed the point......
"Right now the most important agenda for Washington needs to be the economy and jobs."
Who could disagree with that?Believe me, when I was growin up, I thought the worst thing you could turn out to be was normal, So I say freaks in the most complementary way. Here's a song by a fellow freak - E.V0 -
Prince Of Dorkness wrote:ONCE DEVIDED wrote:so you have it a lot better than a lot of others. but you feel I should support you in your quest to be equal.
I disagree I much rather would support them get closer to our standards.
sure your right, your oppertunities may be limited due to our christian based society. you should be equal in all ways. i do agree
but
Many others need us to stand up for them, sure the situation with you is not fair, but with them its downright fucking criminal
you can live with the partner of choice . they cannot even be seen as having that particular sexual persuation because of fear of death
when I stand there i see people all around , people the same as me . the same love for their family and freinds
different situations BUT ALL THE SAME
we all deserve the same
all of us
why should you get all your want before others are brought up to your level
So wait... before you will support me standing up for myself and my family's equality in America, you think I should instead just drop that and try to change anti-gay laws in Saudi Arabia and Jakarta.
Must be nice up in that ivory tower of yours... telling me that you won't let me in until I change the rest of the world first.
Sorry. No.
No I do support you in your quest as i said I support all being equal. My point is that you do have an awlul lot of rights already. whilst others do not.
never said wont let you in
you are in, you just want a better room. whilst others are sleeping in the street.AUSSIE AUSSIE AUSSIE0 -
ONCE DEVIDED wrote:No I do support you in your quest as i said I support all being equal. My point is that you do have an awlul lot of rights already. whilst others do not.
never said wont let you in
you are in, you just want a better room. whilst others are sleeping in the street.
Ah.
And what have you done to remedy that?
And can I say that I'm sick and fucking tired of being told "sorry, no time to deal with your problems now... there are bigger ones... you'll have to wait just a bit longer... yeah... sorry.. not this year.... maybe next year... just be patient... I want you to have those rights.... can you just wait a bit longer?... there are children starving in Japan... banks to bail out... wars to start.... no, can't can't end DOMA just yet... we need the Christians in the next election... no, you can't server openly in the military just yet... we're at war... and you know... that's gonna hurt a marine's feelings.... no... sorry, you have to wait in the hospital hallway while your husband dies in there alone... you understand... we'll do something about that next year."0
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