Don’t Play the ‘Offence Card’

13

Comments

  • aerial wrote:
    Dork your always crying that life is not fair,

    Funny, I don't think I've ever said life isn't fair. I mean.. it's not. But I've never said it and I don't complain about that. To be honest, I've got it better than most. I have a great family life... been with my husband for 19 years. That's longer than three of my sister's marriages combined. (I have one sister... married three times)

    I have great friends, I love my job, I love my life and yeah... I probably do better financially than most do. You will never hear me "crying" that "life isn't fair."

    However, I WILL point out that laws to not treat people or families equally. And like I said before, I'm sorry if my standing up for myself and my rights upsets you so much. But I have no intention of stopping because it makes you uncomfortable that I do it. It's my life.. it's my right to say what I have to say.
    you do realize all humans have problems (you do not see others here posting there problems repeatedly)

    So.. you don't want me to post about how laws and politics affects my life... on a forum about... politics...? OK.

    Shall I post muffin recipes?
    ….you like to put your self on a pedestal above everyone.

    I think I've been more than clear that what I want is to be even and equal with everyone and YOU seem to be very threatened that I want to be equal to you... up on that pedestal you stand on and kinda want to stay.

    Dont' play that game with me. You will lose.
    You had a hard life being gay. Others have had hard lives also;

    You know what? Yeah... there are parts of my life that HAVE been hard, mostly when I have to deal with people such as yourself who whine and cry like babies every time I stand up for myself and won't lay down in the ditch like a good homo and wait for the KKK to come and get me.
    We are all Everyday People!
    You are not as special as you like to think.

    Hm. Funny... but YOU seem to be the one desperately clinging to your "special" status. You seem unusually threatened that I just ask for a few rights and protections THAT YOU ALREADY HAVE for my own family.

    Tell me... why is it that you're so obviously disturbed that I just want the same things that you have?



    and like I said before... Just give me and my family the same rights and protections that you have and I PROMISE I will never bring it up again.

    If you think I enjoy having to go through this every time some person asks me why I have to be so... loud about wanting equality... you are wrong. As usual.
  • By the way, can I just say that the vast majority of the posters here really do cement my faith in humanity?

    I know, when I read posts here, that things are going to turn out just fine for us all.
  • catefrancescatefrances Posts: 29,003
    youre gay. i dont like gays (probably cause im ignorant or the bible says homosexuality is an abomination.. or maybe even both) and therefore im gonna beat you to death(hopefully).


    if someone cant see that this is a HATE crime then there isnt really anything anyone can say to sway them. sure other murders involve a level of hate but when HATE is the SOLE motive then it should be dealt with accordingly. and yes i agree that if you take a life then you forfeit the life you have... and i dont mean execution.
    hear my name
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  • aerialaerial Posts: 2,319
    aerial wrote:
    Dork your always crying that life is not fair,

    Funny, I don't think I've ever said life isn't fair. I mean.. it's not. But I've never said it and I don't complain about that. To be honest, I've got it better than most. I have a great family life... been with my husband for 19 years. That's longer than three of my sister's marriages combined. (I have one sister... married three times)

    I have great friends, I love my job, I love my life and yeah... I probably do better financially than most do. You will never hear me "crying" that "life isn't fair."

    However, I WILL point out that laws to not treat people or families equally. And like I said before, I'm sorry if my standing up for myself and my rights upsets you so much. But I have no intention of stopping because it makes you uncomfortable that I do it. It's my life.. it's my right to say what I have to say.
    you do realize all humans have problems (you do not see others here posting there problems repeatedly)

    So.. you don't want me to post about how laws and politics affects my life... on a forum about... politics...? OK.

    Shall I post muffin recipes?
    ….you like to put your self on a pedestal above everyone.

    I think I've been more than clear that what I want is to be even and equal with everyone and YOU seem to be very threatened that I want to be equal to you... up on that pedestal you stand on and kinda want to stay.

    Dont' play that game with me. You will lose.
    You had a hard life being gay. Others have had hard lives also;

    You know what? Yeah... there are parts of my life that HAVE been hard, mostly when I have to deal with people such as yourself who whine and cry like babies every time I stand up for myself and won't lay down in the ditch like a good homo and wait for the KKK to come and get me.
    We are all Everyday People!
    You are not as special as you like to think.

    Hm. Funny... but YOU seem to be the one desperately clinging to your "special" status. You seem unusually threatened that I just ask for a few rights and protections THAT YOU ALREADY HAVE for my own family.

    Tell me... why is it that you're so obviously disturbed that I just want the same things that you have?



    and like I said before... Just give me and my family the same rights and protections that you have and I PROMISE I will never bring it up again.

    If you think I enjoy having to go through this every time some person asks me why I have to be so... loud about wanting equality... you are wrong. As usual.



    In all sincerity, I would never want to see you hurt, or anyone else. It does not bother me at all that you are fighting for what you feel is right. It is just the same repetitive post that gets on my last nerve. You are right you do have a right to post what you want.
    “We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution.” Abraham Lincoln
  • Shall I post muffin recipes?


    Well, you are gay after all.

    But I would hate to see how you'd decorate them. :lol:
    hippiemom = goodness
  • aerial wrote:
    In all sincerity, I would never want to see you hurt, or anyone else. It does not bother me at all that you are fighting for what you feel is right.

    Well good. There's a place we can start.

    It is just the same repetitive post that gets on my last nerve.

    well then... why not join the fight to get me and my family (and the families of all GLBT people) the equality we ask for, and we won't have anything to "cry" about anymore and you'll never have to deal with it again.
  • aerial wrote:

    I posted this to see if anyone agreeded with the article and study the diffrent opinions. 8-)

    no, I don't agreeded with you.
    Gimli 1993
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    St. Paul 2014
  • SmellymanSmellyman Asia Posts: 4,524
    aerial wrote:
    In all sincerity, I would never want to see you hurt, or anyone else. It does not bother me at all that you are fighting for what you feel is right.

    Well good. There's a place we can start.

    It is just the same repetitive post that gets on my last nerve.

    well then... why not join the fight to get me and my family (and the families of all GLBT people) the equality we ask for, and we won't have anything to "cry" about anymore and you'll never have to deal with it again.

    I admire your tenacity, but you won't change her mind.

    http://community.pearljam.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=144697&p=3324459&hilit=gay#p3324459
  • Smellyman wrote:

    Yeah... I think I've known that for a while.

    but even Helen Keller learned how to speak after being schooled enough.
  • Smellyman wrote:

    Yeah... I think I've known that for a while.

    but even Helen Keller learned how to speak after being schooled enough.

    Unfortunately, learning only takes place if you actually want to learn. It's why partisan views are so hard to influence. I don't think many people on the train are here to learn much of anything. Even when promoting a positive societal change you're always going to run into a few hardliners.
  • g under pg under p Surfing The far side of THE Sombrero Galaxy Posts: 18,200
    Smellyman wrote:

    Yeah... I think I've known that for a while.

    but even Helen Keller learned how to speak after being schooled enough.

    Unfortunately, learning only takes place if you actually want to learn. It's why partisan views are so hard to influence. I don't think many people on the train are here to learn much of anything. Even when promoting a positive societal change you're always going to run into a few hardliners.
    aerial, homosexuals wanting equal rights to legally marry and wanting to fight in our armed forces without living in the closet. is not a special interest group. it is a human rights issue, not a special interest issue. the ignorance of your statement makes me wonder if you even know what a special interest group is, or are you just throwing around buzzwords again? the unemployed are not a special interest group either. last i heard homosexuals and unemployed people are not paying large sums of money to certain politicians to vote a certin way... people wanting equal human rights and special interest groups are two completely different things...

    heakth reform might not help EVERYONE, but it will sure as hell help people who were uninsurable before the bill passed. do you have reputable links saying all those people will lose coverage? millions of people who had no insurance will be covered now, and you see that as a bad thing in what ways?

    and i gotta tell you, this is one of the most condescending things i have read around here in weeks..
    "I am sure the gays will live without the getting married...." that is like saying "i am sure women will live without the right to vote", or (in redneck condeferate accent) "i am sure them blacks will live without the emancipation proclamation.."

    aerial wrote:
    All people are not gay...so why waste time (at this time) passing bills that are only for special intrest group?
    How long should Americans support the unemployed? .....special intrest group
    Health reform is not going to help everyone....in fact people those that have good insurance thru work will lose there good insurance.

    Right now the most important agenda for Washington needs to be the economy and jobs....
    I am sure the gays will live without the getting married....

    Interesting to note that nowhere further in the thread did aerial reply to what gimmie had to say to her sentence....I am sure the gays will live without the getting married.... It appears it's said in a way as if people who are gay are a social disease that is about to or IS ruining the social culture of America we once knew. She could be talking to me because I try to be gay most of the the time but doesn't always turn out that way. See smiley face.... :D

    Peace
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    *MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
    .....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti

    *The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)


  • the most vicious and mean-sprited thing I've ever read on a forum to the "you'll just have to live with less" argument was when I told the story of a woman who wasn't allowed into the hospital room with her dying partner because it was "immediate family only" and the Christians in charge at the hospital in Florida were extremely rude and seemed to get a big kick out of making her just stand out in the hallway.

    When I told this story, someone with the same types of opinions as Ariel said something along the lines of "I'm sure she knew she 'loved' her anyway."

    This is the kind of gleeful disrespect we can expect from those people.
  • the most vicious and mean-sprited thing I've ever read on a forum to the "you'll just have to live with less" argument was when I told the story of a woman who wasn't allowed into the hospital room with her dying partner because it was "immediate family only" and the Christians in charge at the hospital in Florida were extremely rude and seemed to get a big kick out of making her just stand out in the hallway.

    When I told this story, someone with the same types of opinions as Ariel said something along the lines of "I'm sure she knew she 'loved' her anyway."

    This is the kind of gleeful disrespect we can expect from those people.


    Yeah, that is the very worst part of not having equal rights, in my opinion anyhow. Disgusting. Now, the hospitals due have to follow the law or could be in big trouble, but you'd hope that any reasonable individual would find another way. And you'd hope the law would change.

    But I also think it is terrible that you are bringing Ariel into this argument. What has she ever done to you? Did she steal Prince Eric from you? ;)
    hippiemom = goodness
  • SmellymanSmellyman Asia Posts: 4,524
    the most vicious and mean-sprited thing I've ever read on a forum to the "you'll just have to live with less" argument was when I told the story of a woman who wasn't allowed into the hospital room with her dying partner because it was "immediate family only" and the Christians in charge at the hospital in Florida were extremely rude and seemed to get a big kick out of making her just stand out in the hallway.

    When I told this story, someone with the same types of opinions as Ariel said something along the lines of "I'm sure she knew she 'loved' her anyway."

    This is the kind of gleeful disrespect we can expect from those people.


    Yeah, that is the very worst part of not having equal rights, in my opinion anyhow. Disgusting. Now, the hospitals due have to follow the law or could be in big trouble, but you'd hope that any reasonable individual would find another way. And you'd hope the law would change.

    But I also think it is terrible that you are bringing Ariel into this argument. What has she ever done to you? Did she steal Prince Eric from you? ;)

    it's up to her........
  • Smellyman wrote:
    the most vicious and mean-sprited thing I've ever read on a forum to the "you'll just have to live with less" argument was when I told the story of a woman who wasn't allowed into the hospital room with her dying partner because it was "immediate family only" and the Christians in charge at the hospital in Florida were extremely rude and seemed to get a big kick out of making her just stand out in the hallway.

    When I told this story, someone with the same types of opinions as Ariel said something along the lines of "I'm sure she knew she 'loved' her anyway."

    This is the kind of gleeful disrespect we can expect from those people.


    Yeah, that is the very worst part of not having equal rights, in my opinion anyhow. Disgusting. Now, the hospitals due have to follow the law or could be in big trouble, but you'd hope that any reasonable individual would find another way. And you'd hope the law would change.

    But I also think it is terrible that you are bringing Ariel into this argument. What has she ever done to you? Did she steal Prince Eric from you? ;)

    it's up to her........

    Huh? I think you missed his typo. Walt Disney is going to sue the Prince. If you don't have a young child/girl, this may escape your grasp. ;)
    hippiemom = goodness
  • SmellymanSmellyman Asia Posts: 4,524
    Smellyman wrote:


    Yeah, that is the very worst part of not having equal rights, in my opinion anyhow. Disgusting. Now, the hospitals due have to follow the law or could be in big trouble, but you'd hope that any reasonable individual would find another way. And you'd hope the law would change.

    But I also think it is terrible that you are bringing Ariel into this argument. What has she ever done to you? Did she steal Prince Eric from you? ;)

    it's up to her........

    Huh? I think you missed his typo. Walt Disney is going to sue the Prince. If you don't have a young child/girl, this may escape your grasp. ;)
    guess so...

    explain
  • Smellyman wrote:
    guess so...

    explain


    Th eperson in this thread is "aerial"...he typed Ariel. On purpose, don't know. Ariel is the Little Mermaid.
    hippiemom = goodness
  • BinauralJamBinauralJam Posts: 14,158
    Smellyman wrote:
    guess so...

    explain


    Th eperson in this thread is "aerial"...he typed Ariel. On purpose, don't know. Ariel is the Little Mermaid.


    :lol::lol:
  • But I also think it is terrible that you are bringing Ariel into this argument.


    Sorry. I just don't like anything that smells like fish.
  • BinauralJamBinauralJam Posts: 14,158
    But I also think it is terrible that you are bringing Ariel into this argument.


    Sorry. I just don't like anything that smells like fish.

    oh come on :P
  • aerial wrote:
    So can we say just about everyone is a bigot, hater, racist or some kind phobic. We should scrap those words. We are all “every day people”


    I'll tell you what...

    you give me every right that you have, you give my marriage the same legal standing as yours, you allow me to adopt children, you allow me to not get evicted from my house for being gay, not get fired from my job for being gay and not be tied to a fence and beaten to death for being gay...

    you make me equal to you... and in return I'll never bring it up again. And then I will agree we're all "every day people."

    Until then, I'm so sorry if my standing up for myself and fighting for my rights and demanding a bit of respect upsets you so.

    Try prune juice.

    a great deal with these greivences are protected rights

    if you get evicted, get fired or tied to a fence and beaten for being gay are not allowed in all western societys.

    I just wished most of these minority groups would just harden the fuck up and get on with life. sure it aint perfect but it aint the dark ages either
    AUSSIE AUSSIE AUSSIE
  • By the way, can I just say that the vast majority of the posters here really do cement my faith in humanity?

    I know, when I read posts here, that things are going to turn out just fine for us all.

    Now you may be offended by my post about hardening up I just posted. I do want you to know that I am completly in favour/support everyone being eqeal before the law. Im more so over the whinging that a lot do go on with. when compared to the majority of humanity are having a great great fantastic life filled with oppertunities regardless of colour, sex or sexuality.
    AUSSIE AUSSIE AUSSIE
  • Now you may be offended by my post about hardening up I just posted. I do want you to know that I am completly in favour/support everyone being eqeal before the law. Im more so over the whinging that a lot do go on with. when compared to the majority of humanity are having a great great fantastic life filled with oppertunities regardless of colour, sex or sexuality.

    Really.

    Tell that the the jury today in Oxnard who gave us a mistrial in the murder of a 13 year-old gay kid who was blamed for his own murder... for being so damn gay.

    I'm going to say, my friend, that I'm a fuck of a lot more hard-assed than most of the straight men who wimpier like babies every time I remind them I'm in the room. If you think that my standing up for myself is a sign of weakness, or "whining," you're wrong.

    I dare you to go stand up for yourself against a huge number of people who tell you to shut up and just deal with having less. See how you buckle when you're told to get back to the back of the bus and be happy with the scraps thrown at you.

    Not me.
  • if you get evicted, get fired or tied to a fence and beaten for being gay are not allowed in all western societys.

    Sadly.. you're wrong about that.

    I can't be arsed to scroll back but I list the number of states where you can be evicted or fired for being gay. And it's the vast majority of them.
  • I talk globally not good old USA. and about the west, democratic society.

    of course you could be gay in a a hardline fundamentalistic country. usuall your executed for it in those.
    thus my point
    you have it very good, many have so much less
    but pooor poor you. your marraige isnt recognised
    it shouldnt happen but it does.
    my life aint a bunch of roses, but im thankfull for it and will work to make my world a better place.
    look at the improvments over the last 60 years in regards to all sorts of individual rights.
    sure right now all of your wants are not met, buut a little patience and in your lifetime they may be met
    AUSSIE AUSSIE AUSSIE
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,435
    I talk globally not good old USA. and about the west, democratic society.

    of course you could be gay in a a hardline fundamentalistic country. usuall your executed for it in those.
    thus my point
    you have it very good, many have so much less
    but pooor poor you. your marraige isnt recognised
    it shouldnt happen but it does.
    my life aint a bunch of roses, but im thankfull for it and will work to make my world a better place.
    look at the improvments over the last 60 years in regards to all sorts of individual rights.
    sure right now all of your wants are not met, buut a little patience and in your lifetime they may be met

    Sadly, this is what we hear so often- "If you lived in such and such a country you'd be much worse off", or "Things are so much bettertoday than they were sixty years ago." If you were gay and denied the rights we straights have or if you were American Indian and still living with the residue of the bullshit "treaties" handed down or if you were black or brown and pulled over by cops more frequently than your white counter parts or if you were Latino and lived in the southwest and got stopped regularly to have your I.D. checked, then statements like those would offer you very little if any comfort.

    Yes, working to make (your or the?) world a better place is a wonderful thing and we would all do well to engage in that endeavor but we would also all do well to look at the reality of bigotry and bias that still runs stongly in this country in this period of time. Changing the hatred takes more than just having a little patience. I am the 60 years you talk about and judging by how things have changed in that time, I'd say that change is way too slow.
    "Pretty cookies, heart squares all around, yeah!"
    -Eddie Vedder, "Smile"

    "Try to not spook the horse."
    -Neil Young













  • __ Posts: 6,651
    you have it very good, many have so much less

    Herein lies the flaw in your reasoning. One's life doesn't become good just because someone else has less. "More" is the contrast to less, not "good". But it's this kind of faulty reasoning that has been used to keep people oppressed for centuries. Those people you speak of in other countries who have it so much worse are being told the same thing.
  • Prince Of DorknessPrince Of Dorkness Posts: 3,763
    edited September 2011
    look at the improvments over the last 60 years in regards to all sorts of individual rights.
    sure right now all of your wants are not met, buut a little patience and in your lifetime they may be met


    And that is where you are 100% wrong.

    The improvements over the last 60 years weren't won by people who politely and patiently sat at home. Dr. Martin Luthor King and Harvey Milk didn't make changes happen by going out of their way to not annoy the straight,white people in control of the rights... they took to the street, they marched, they campaigned, they didn't stop talking about it and they didn't ever give up the fight.

    So... stop telling me to pipe down because I annoy you with my "whining."

    If you want me to shut up... good. So do I.

    Fight to get me my equal rights and I'll never mention it again.

    Deal?
    Post edited by Prince Of Dorkness on
  • brianlux wrote:
    Sadly, this is what we hear so often- "If you lived in such and such a country you'd be much worse off", or "Things are so much bettertoday than they were sixty years ago." If you were gay and denied the rights we straights have or if you were American Indian and still living with the residue of the bullshit "treaties" handed down or if you were black or brown and pulled over by cops more frequently than your white counter parts or if you were Latino and lived in the southwest and got stopped regularly to have your I.D. checked, then statements like those would offer you very little if any comfort.


    A very good point.

    Back in the 80s I remember writing a paper for college about gay history and I talked to one of the local bar owners in Toronto. He said that for years he fought to get a permit to open a gay bar. He was always denied by the city when they found out that he was a gay man who planned on opening up a small pub in the Church/Wellesley area.

    The "gay" bars through the 50s to the 70s were all run by the mafia. They were often raided, bar owners walking away unscathed but the patrons arrested for simply being there.

    When he tried to stand up to city hall for a gay-owned bar, he was told "you're lucky you have a place to go at all."

    Being told "you'll just have to be content to have less and be happy we don't behead you like they do in Saudi Arabia" just isn't going to cut it.
  • aerialaerial Posts: 2,319
    Smellyman wrote:
    aerial wrote:
    In all sincerity, I would never want to see you hurt, or anyone else. It does not bother me at all that you are fighting for what you feel is right.

    Well good. There's a place we can start.

    It is just the same repetitive post that gets on my last nerve.

    well then... why not join the fight to get me and my family (and the families of all GLBT people) the equality we ask for, and we won't have anything to "cry" about anymore and you'll never have to deal with it again.

    I admire your tenacity, but you won't change her mind.

    http://community.pearljam.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=144697&p=3324459&hilit=gay#p3324459



    Looks like you missed the point......
    "Right now the most important agenda for Washington needs to be the economy and jobs."
    Who could disagree with that?
    “We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution.” Abraham Lincoln
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