BIN LADEN IS DEAD

Jason P wrote:

So if Hitler escaped and was found 10 years later in Argentina there would not have been a celebration around the world?

Second, did I miss all the ticker-tape parades and mass gatherings to celebrate the death of Bin Laden? Besides news reports in D.C., New York and a few ball games, did anyone posting on this board visually witness the nationwide celebration in the streets?

well, germany unconditionally surrendered within a week of hitler's death, so if we had 10 years of peace in europe and then hitler was found alive in argentina i think there will be celebrations, but not to the extent of the immediacy and enthusiasom shown when VE day occurred. you need to use proper context when comparing the two events. in 1955 the usa was enjoying unbridled prosperity, a population explosion of the baby boomers, and we were on our way to superpower status. WWII does not compare to the war on terror at all. they are fundamentally different and we fought those wars for fundamentally different reasons. most will argue that WWII had to be fought, and that iraq, especially, was a war of choice since hussein had zero to do with 9/11. and the afghanistan war was started out of revenge, and to find one man dead or alive. also, when hitler died germany surrendered because they could not physically carry on the war anymore. they had no manufacturing, and many of the last forces defending berlin were comprised of young boys and older men, because all of the men aged in between were dead, deployed, or pows. in conventional war you have two goals, one is to neutralize and defeat your enemy, the other is to aquire land by driving the enemy off of the pland they are occupying. those goals were not the goals of the war on terror. those goals were to eliminate extremism, which would be better accomplished through eduacation than bombs. there is no comparison to the end of WWII and the killing of bin laden.

i have seen the facebook celebrations. does that count? it is pretty much the same thing, a bunch of uneducated dolts telling me to repost as my status something that is completly factually wrong.

Reading this thread I just don't know what to say...i am shocked ...

we just took out a nasty human being, successfully punishing this coward for his crimes...he affected so many more lives than just simply the people who died on 9/11...what about all the youth he brainwashed into extremism and martyring themselves...I am sick and tired of living in a world where criminals always have an excuse for their actions and it is the punishment they receive that is the bad thing...this guy chose to do what he did, we did not create him...people can take things anyway they want and they need to be prepared for the consequences of their reactions (as I am sure he was)...but the fact that this guy helped create a terror network that preys on young impressionable kids is disgusting and the world is a better place without him specifically...

and to those that brought it up, Being proud of your country achieving a goal is not jingoism...who are you to say that celebrating the death of the man ultimately responsible for a complete change in our country is an extreme form of patriotism?

Godfather. wrote:

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

polaris_x wrote:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jingoism

jingoism. pretty much sums it up.

someone i used to know used to joke that americans invented 2 things, patriotism, and size 4XL shorts. usa usa. lol...

all kidding aside though. bin laden has been gone just less than 48 hours, and the government has not said "THAT"S IT! we got all of them, everybody loves us again, hoorayyyy!"

unfortunately i don't think that is going to happen anytime soon though.

it never will, they line up and say help us then curse us for doing it...crazy.


Godfather.

Whose done this?

mikepegg44 wrote:

Reading this thread I just don't know what to say...i am shocked ...

we just took out a nasty human being, successfully punishing this coward for his crimes...he affected so many more lives than just simply the people who died on 9/11...what about all the youth he brainwashed into extremism and martyring themselves...I am sick and tired of living in a world where criminals always have an excuse for their actions and it is the punishment they receive that is the bad thing...this guy chose to do what he did, we did not create him...people can take things anyway they want and they need to be prepared for the consequences of their reactions (as I am sure he was)...but the fact that this guy helped create a terror network that preys on young impressionable kids is disgusting and the world is a better place without him specifically...

and to those that brought it up, Being proud of your country achieving a goal is not jingoism...who are you to say that celebrating the death of the man ultimately responsible for a complete change in our country is an extreme form of patriotism?

you did create him ... look who funded him in his early battles against the soviets ...

ultimately, it's not about lamenting his death ... it is about america's failure to recognize their role in death and suffering in this world ... you guys think your armies and spies are sent around the world spreading freedom and democracy when all they are are puppets to your multi-nationals ... that is what is truly sad ... how many people have died in iraq over a trumped-up war!?? ... where is the humility? ... where is the apology? ... where is the accountability?? ... there is none in the US ... because people continue to wear the colours of the flag in their hearts and minds without actually seeing what that really means ...

wolfamongwolves wrote:

I can understand emotions of relief or vindication in a sense of justice being served (though in my opinion justice is infinitely better served in a court of law than in a gunfight). What I can't understand or condone is glee in bloodlust and nationalistic triumphalism. It's ugly and demeaning.

This is my feeling on the matter too. Political extremism involves two prime ingredients: an excessively simple diagnosis of the world's ills, and a conviction that there are identifiable villains at the back of it all. There are no 'winners' in all this.

polaris_x wrote:

mikepegg44 wrote:

Reading this thread I just don't know what to say...i am shocked ...

we just took out a nasty human being, successfully punishing this coward for his crimes...he affected so many more lives than just simply the people who died on 9/11...what about all the youth he brainwashed into extremism and martyring themselves...I am sick and tired of living in a world where criminals always have an excuse for their actions and it is the punishment they receive that is the bad thing...this guy chose to do what he did, we did not create him...people can take things anyway they want and they need to be prepared for the consequences of their reactions (as I am sure he was)...but the fact that this guy helped create a terror network that preys on young impressionable kids is disgusting and the world is a better place without him specifically...

and to those that brought it up, Being proud of your country achieving a goal is not jingoism...who are you to say that celebrating the death of the man ultimately responsible for a complete change in our country is an extreme form of patriotism?

you did create him ... look who funded him in his early battles against the soviets ...

ultimately, it's not about lamenting his death ... it is about america's failure to recognize their role in death and suffering in this world ... you guys think your armies and spies are sent around the world spreading freedom and democracy when all they are are puppets to your multi-nationals ... that is what is truly sad ... how many people have died in iraq over a trumped-up war!?? ... where is the humility? ... where is the apology? ... where is the accountability?? ... there is none in the US ... because people continue to wear the colours of the flag in their hearts and minds without actually seeing what that really means ...

I think Mike makes a good point though.. bin laden was not a robot. He wasnt created by the US. He chose to fight the US because he didnt like the way the US was conducting operations. Yes, the US funded his cause (terrible, I know), but bin laden inherited like 80 mil, didnt he? would he have fought the soviets either way? probably. what that has to do with Iraq, I have no idea. the US govt is not perfect. Many people know Iraq was a huge mistake...

If you really wanted to compare the two...lets imagine if Bin laden had all the resources (militarily) that the US has. The western world would be erased from the map. Every single innocent man, woman, and child would be killed...nuked and erased from history if he had his choice.

but because of Iraq (and the huge mistake that it was), praising bin ladens fate is wrong? I personally don't think so. I am able to express concern that I feel Iraq was a huge mistake... I did everything I could - -voted against Bush, to get away from more mistakes like Iraq, but I would NEVER, say bin laden meeting his fate is not important in the grand scheme of things.

cincybearcat wrote:

Couple of interesting articles (not sure if they were posted here before)...

http://www.cnn.com/2011/OPINION/05/02/g ... tml?hpt=T2

http://globalpublicsquare.blogs.cnn.com ... ad/?hpt=T1

both are good articles, thanks.

I head a discussion on the radio similar to the second link. I thought this was interesting:

"In the case of al Qaeda, this is a virtual organization held together by its message and the inspiration it provided. A large part of that inspiration was bin Laden. Ayman Zawahiri may have been the brains behind the outfit, but he did not excite people. When people volunteered for jihad, they were volunteering to be bin Laden’s foot soldiers, not Ayman Zawahiri’s or Khalid Sheikh Mohammed’s. The loss of bin Laden’s personality is hugely important because it was so much part of al Qaeda’s appeal."

I'm surprised that some people think that bin ladens death changes nothing. al quada will continue, but without bin ladens personality, ability to recruit, and also his wealth.

Byrnzie wrote:

mikepegg44 wrote:

...who are you to say that celebrating the death of the man ultimately responsible for a complete change in our country is an extreme form of patriotism?

And what change might that be?

a political climate that gave us things like the patriot act for starters...I realize that there is no winning with you Byrnzie so I know better than to start...;)
I don't think you are interested in my long answer anyway so I will simply say, if it is okay for people to blame the US for "creating" OBLs, than it is okay for people to blame OBL for creating an America that they may not recognize and leave it at that.