Canadian Conservative Party Supporters

polaris_x wrote:

RockinInCanada wrote:

I won't disagree with you but your last issue you mentioned is I said a sound-byte from a no-body baack-bencher I believe maybe from Saskatchewan.

What about the Liberal candidate in Alberta saying punishment for pedolphila is already too strong!!! As I mentioned one cannot paint the entire party because of some nut-ball and his thoughts.

I am all for social health care but where is this pro-privatization talk???? I have not heard anything or read anything that states as of the year 2011 they are talking about privatizing health-care. If you really believe they would do that, then you under-estimate the passion this fine country of ours as for our system (that does need tweaking) because the people would not have it, and you can put your money on that.

1. harper called this election ... make no mistake ... by putting forth a budget that he knew would never be agreed upon and is unwillingness to work with other parties on it is why we are in an election.

2. he may be a back bencher - but he is a great example of why they are muzzled ... why hasn't cida received funding for planned parenthood ... it's way past the normal time ... it's because they are going to cut it like this guy said ... they've made those ideological changes elsewhere with regards to funding ... look at all the ngo's that have stopped getting funding ... they are all leftist type orgs ...

3. harper's support of multi-tiered health care is pretty much well documented ... any google search will yield you the results ...

edit: 4. yes, we don't have donald trump but i wouldn't be surprised if we headed in that direction ...

1) I seen nothing too incredible from his budget, looked safe to me. However I think all the parties strove to this point. But I still think the Liberals thought they had something and failed miserably (to the point of embarrassment) to capatilize.

2) They will not re-open the abortion debate, once again fear mongering (they have ZERO to gain from it and EVERYTHING to lose from it, I think you under-estimate the intelligence in this party) As I said shoudl you believe Ignatieff wants to lower the punishment for pedophiles because a Liberal candidate (who was a JUDGE in Alberta) mouthed off, I doubt it.

3) Old news, the same as documents showing Ignatieff actually supported the Iraq invasion. You see this is my problem anyone can throw out sounds bytes or quotes to create an agenda and the Left is just as good as the Right in doing it. Everyone, you and I included, have said something we regret or should have kept our mouths shut-on in the past. That does not indicate our intentions in the present. I know there are some things that I believe that I would not vocalize in an election BUT that also does not mean I would implement them as it would go against popular opinion and that is what should matter, what the people want.

Do you really believe Harper and his cronies would over-turn public health-care when the majority in this country do not want that???? I dislike Harper and most Conservative social policies like you, trust me on that, but I think people are greatly exagerrating things to support their agenda.

If they did they would never have a position of power for generations, it would be political suicide. You would lose ALL of Quebec and every major urban centre (maybe minus Calgary.... ), it would be game over for decades.

4) You are too cynical.

RockinInCanada wrote:

polaris_x wrote:

RockinInCanada wrote:

I won't disagree with you but your last issue you mentioned is I said a sound-byte from a no-body baack-bencher I believe maybe from Saskatchewan.

What about the Liberal candidate in Alberta saying punishment for pedolphila is already too strong!!! As I mentioned one cannot paint the entire party because of some nut-ball and his thoughts.

I am all for social health care but where is this pro-privatization talk???? I have not heard anything or read anything that states as of the year 2011 they are talking about privatizing health-care. If you really believe they would do that, then you under-estimate the passion this fine country of ours as for our system (that does need tweaking) because the people would not have it, and you can put your money on that.

1. harper called this election ... make no mistake ... by putting forth a budget that he knew would never be agreed upon and is unwillingness to work with other parties on it is why we are in an election.

2. he may be a back bencher - but he is a great example of why they are muzzled ... why hasn't cida received funding for planned parenthood ... it's way past the normal time ... it's because they are going to cut it like this guy said ... they've made those ideological changes elsewhere with regards to funding ... look at all the ngo's that have stopped getting funding ... they are all leftist type orgs ...

3. harper's support of multi-tiered health care is pretty much well documented ... any google search will yield you the results ...

edit: 4. yes, we don't have donald trump but i wouldn't be surprised if we headed in that direction ...

1) I seen nothing too incredible from his budget, looked safe to me. However I think all the parties strove to this point. But I still think the Liberals thought they had something and failed miserably (to the point of embarrassment) to capatilize.

2) They will not re-open the abortion debate, once again fear mongering (they have ZERO to gain from it and EVERYTHING to lose from it, I think you under-estimate the intelligence in this party) As I said shoudl you believe Ignatieff wants to lower the punishment for pedophiles because a Liberal candidate (who was a JUDGE in Alberta) mouthed off, I doubt it.

3) Old news, the same as documents showing Ignatieff actually supported the Iraq invasion. You see this is my problem anyone can throw out sounds bytes or quotes to create an agenda and the Left is just as good as the Right in doing it. Everyone, you and I included, have said something we regret or should have kept our mouths shut-on in the past. That does not indicate our intentions in the present. I know there are some things that I believe that I would not vocalize in an election BUT that also does not mean I would implement them as it would go against popular opinion and that is what should matter, what the people want.

Do you really believe Harper and his cronies would over-turn public health-care when the majority in this country do not want that???? I dislike Harper and most Conservative social policies like you, trust me on that, but I think people are greatly exagerrating things to support their agenda.

If they did they would never have a position of power for generations, it would be political suicide. You would lose ALL of Quebec and every major urban centre (maybe minus Calgary.... ), it would be game over for decades.

4) You are too cynical.

I don't think they would come out and straight up change to a privatized system. However, I do believe that they would slowly change the system so that it would eventually be like that. It won't happen in four years, but if the conservatives put together consecutive terms, then they'll have the time to do it.

polaris_x wrote:

RockinInCanada wrote:

1) I seen nothing too incredible from his budget, looked safe to me. However I think all the parties strove to this point. But I still think the Liberals thought they had something and failed miserably (to the point of embarrassment) to capatilize.

2) They will not re-open the abortion debate, once again fear mongering (they have ZERO to gain from it and EVERYTHING to lose from it, I think you under-estimate the intelligence in this party) As I said shoudl you believe Ignatieff wants to lower the punishment for pedophiles because a Liberal candidate (who was a JUDGE in Alberta) mouthed off, I doubt it.

3) Old news, the same as documents showing Ignatieff actually supported the Iraq invasion. You see this is my problem anyone can throw out sounds bytes or quotes to create an agenda and the Left is just as good as the Right in doing it. Everyone, you and I included, have said something we regret or should have kept our mouths shut-on in the past. That does not indicate our intentions in the present. I know there are some things that I believe that I would not vocalize in an election BUT that also does not mean I would implement them as it would go against popular opinion and that is what should matter, what the people want.

Do you really believe Harper and his cronies would over-turn public health-care when the majority in this country do not want that???? I dislike Harper and most Conservative social policies like you, trust me on that, but I think people are greatly exagerrating things to support their agenda.

If they did they would never have a position of power for generations, it would be political suicide. You would lose ALL of Quebec and every major urban centre (maybe minus Calgary.... ), it would be game over for decades.

4) You are too cynical.

1. there were huge problems with the budget including not costing items appropriately

2. they aren't interested in reopening the debate but continue to do things insidiously as i've stated ...
http://whyprohibition.ca/blogs/jacob-hu ... agreements

3. not sure why you keep bringing up iggy and the libs ... i've already said they have no credibility ... alberta already runs a two-tiered health care system ... it's only a matter of time ...

4. i may appear to be a cynic but i think it's grounded in reality ... look, we just elected a george bush clone for mayor in toronto ... it's not a stretch ...

1) Budgets are objective depending on what side of the fence you sit we can debate budget issues to the end of time.

2) Everyone, including politicians, are entitled to their opinion regardless of what is. It is sad that this is still an issue with some people, damn right it is (and same goes to gay marriage). What I laugh at when it comes to Conservative idealogy on the whole is they always preach as citizens we should have a choice (free enterprise) in our lives and to remove the government from our lives. Well guess what the abortion issue is a matter of choise, for me I would NEVER advocate someone I am with to have one BUT I believe everyone should have the right of choice. On the second point the government should not tell someone who or who they cannot marry regardless of sex. That to me is a total choice society (based on two items for examples). Sorry to derail just wanted to inform that you and me are closer to the same than what it looks like based on our conversation yesterday.

3) I agree they have lost credibility and sorry to repeat than, we are on the same page on that. Every province runs two tier health to a point, just that the government pays the third party clinic instead of the user. Here in Calgary if I need a X-ray I goto a third party clinic with my requisiton form and the government pays for it, I could pay for it myself but why would I get an x-ray when i do not need it.

Yes there are clinics where you pay $1000 up front and then $100 every subsequant visit but those are minor and have not caused a hinderance in the system. Hell health-care here is 1000000X better than Saskatchewan where they are going to start following Alberta. To this date iI have paid ZERO dollars for these services. yeah it may be two tier but at such a small level that it makes sense. I would grow concerned if it did expand to but as of now I see no problem as I pay nothing and my service is way better than any province I have been.

4) Fair enough but hey we elected a Harvard educated, a visible minority, muslim, and progressive thinker mayor in "red-neck" Calgary. I have hope for people as I used to be a major cynic (especially when I used to post here) but that got me nowhere with people. Being positive seems to be having a better effect.

Should mention do that think for a single second that the true Progressive Conservative vote (those with red social leanings) would not turn theuir back away from the Conservative Party if they even attempted to take a relgious right stand-point.

I know many that would in a heart-beat if Harper went all nut-ball with what people fear he is going to do.

As I said complete and utter political suicide for them to go down that avenue OR for that matter "sneak" down those avenues. Relgion is declining in Canada (much more steeply than the USA) so it makes no sense to go engage a thinning out voter base and ignore the rising voter base that puts less to no emphasis on religion belief in their polititcs.

polaris_x wrote:

haffajappa wrote:

i was just curious to ask, to what extent you guys think people's religious beliefs cement their support for Harper? i'm a little further out in the sticks (as far as Greater Vancouver goes) and it doesn't surprise me that my riding is overwhelmingly Conservative. The people I know who are voting conservative are some of the most religious people I've met... (the kind that give 10% of their income to the church despite being able to barely feed their kids)...

Not trying to sound ignorant or generalizing here but it is something that bothers me, not sure why :?
Maybe this post is in bad taste, sorry!

ummm ... in the spirit of bad taste ... i would say that those who are heavily religious are easily indoctrinated ... look at extremism in some muslim states ... look at the US ...

the conservatives definitely have the religious vote ... and despite what some may want to tell ya - they expect action on issues such as abortion in one form or another ...

They will never get it, do you think the majority of Canadians want that?

You think the Supreme Court would allow that. Yes a minority group of people want change but I think we disagree in that I do not believe they will prusue it, as I said political sucide.

What do they lose by not doing anything??? What these anti-aborition people are going to change their vote??? To who??? Right nobody, its pandering to a electoral base that will never come to fruition.

Or just a certain group of ranchers in southern Alberta?

I will say the one thing i do AGREE with the Conservatives is Senate reform, what we have now is a joke.

RockinInCanada wrote:

They will never get it, do you think the majority of Canadians want that?

You think the Supreme Court would allow that. Yes a minority group of people want change but I think we disagree in that I do not believe they will prusue it, as I said political sucide.

What do they lose by not doing anything??? What these anti-aborition people are going to change their vote??? To who??? Right nobody, its pandering to a electoral base that will never come to fruition.

Or just a certain group of ranchers in southern Alberta?

I will say the one thing i do AGREE with the Conservatives is Senate reform, what we have now is a joke.

again ... it's not about reopening the debate and outlawing it ... but it's how they fund programs ... including imposed restrictions on international aid ...

and as for the senate ... i think they've already shown themselves to be two-faced on the subject ... the guy has appointed the most senators (his friends) than anyone ... the ndp also want to get rid of the senate ...

you'd be surprised how important abortion is to their base ... our legal counsel here had dinner with chretien and he said the biggest issue he faced was gay marriage ... he said - you'd be surprised how many people in public would say they are indifferent to it but in the privacy of their own home - they were against it ...

he said he didn't have to fight so hard as on defending our charter on that subject ... it's the same people ...

[/quote]
That's the problem with Conservatives they had 5 years do abolish the senate...the NDP would have gladly worked with them on that...as well as strengthen the CCP...insure money going into EI is for workers...work with the other parties on environmental reforms and so many other things, as far as I'm concerned they wasted the last 5 years doing sweet nothing...This was an opportunity blown for their base as well, an opportunity to have their voice heard, an opportunity to cooperate with other parties, an opportunity to make Canada a better place...these last 5 years have been a joke with Harper...I am really hoping the NDP form the next government and I'm hoping that the NDP platform isn't smoke and mirrors and he can get to work on implementing it.[/quote]

I am not a Harper supporter trust me I see their faults what the whole point of my saying is that I do not believe him to be an evil monster that wants to destroy our ideals. That goes for the Conservative electoral base who I obviously am surrounded by, I find that we always have interesting and challenging debates on these subjects in a fair manner. My mind has swayed on things and so has their's.

With the NDP they sound good but they do a poor job of outlining how they will pay for the plan. I like Jack, hell shook his hand once at a rally. Everyone knows they are the party that cares and everything sounds good but is it possible. Even the CBC destroyed their plans with how they could not possibily fund everything. If Jack could logically present what he wants and how he would accomplish it he could win an election. Until then the NDP will be seen as the little guy with the big heart but no sense of planning. I like the NDP do not get me wrong they probably closely match what I look for than anyone else.

RockinInCanada wrote:

That's the problem with Conservatives they had 5 years do abolish the senate...the NDP would have gladly worked with them on that...as well as strengthen the CCP...insure money going into EI is for workers...work with the other parties on environmental reforms and so many other things, as far as I'm concerned they wasted the last 5 years doing sweet nothing...This was an opportunity blown for their base as well, an opportunity to have their voice heard, an opportunity to cooperate with other parties, an opportunity to make Canada a better place...these last 5 years have been a joke with Harper...I am really hoping the NDP form the next government and I'm hoping that the NDP platform isn't smoke and mirrors and he can get to work on implementing it.[/quote]

I am not a Harper supporter trust me I see their faults what the whole point of my saying is that I do not believe him to be an evil monster that wants to destroy our ideals. That goes for the Conservative electoral base who I obviously am surrounded by, I find that we always have interesting and challenging debates on these subjects in a fair manner. My mind has swayed on things and so has their's.

With the NDP they sound good but they do a poor job of outlining how they will pay for the plan. I like Jack, hell shook his hand once at a rally. Everyone knows they are the party that cares and everything sounds good but is it possible. Even the CBC destroyed their plans with how they could not possibily fund everything. If Jack could logically present what he wants and how he would accomplish it he could win an election. Until then the NDP will be seen as the little guy with the big heart but no sense of planning. I like the NDP do not get me wrong they probably closely match what I look for than anyone else.[/quote]

I don't see what we got to loose...I really don't...the liberals and conservatives have been running the show forever and it seems that the only people who really benefit are the people who don't need the help and the folks who could use a hand or a pick me up in life continually get screwed.

I'll give an example...I know this couple who have young kids making good wages and was receiving the 100 *2 a month from the Harper childcare money, they needed the money like I needed another hole in the head...now tell me how that helps the single mother or father who has to get childcare in order to work. Harper is using tax $$$$ to buy votes...stuff like childcare should go to people who can't afford it.

I don't see what we got to loose...I really don't...the liberals and conservatives have been running the show forever and it seems that the only people who really benefit are the people who don't need the help and the folks who could use a hand or a pick me up in life continually get screwed.

I'll give an example...I know this couple who have young kids making good wages and was receiving the 100 *2 a month from the Harper childcare money, they needed the money like I needed another hole in the head...now tell me how that helps the single mother or father who has to get childcare in order to work. Harper is using tax $$$$ to buy votes...stuff like childcare should go to people who can't afford it

I am on the fence with the Universal Child Tax Benefit, as obviously now with my son we benefit with a $100 cheque/month until he turns 6. Do I think we need the money, no I do not. However at least it is something to famailies that does not prejudice based upon any sort of income, wage, race, etc.

BUT I can see how some well off people do not need it and people could not use the money on their child, just as I think a lot of people do not deserve EI because they are either lazy (and yes there are people like that, not as many as some right leaning people will say but they exist) or people taking advantage of our disability programs (which I of have heard a lot of). Actually pisses me right off seeing people abuse a system that is there to help us if we fall, but I would never advocate cutting the net which would allow more real honest people to suffer than fraudulent claims.

At least with the UCB it actually helps the family, is it vote buying, maybe but what isn't vote buying? A $100/month is not going to keep you at home to raise a child and the price of childcare is very high (which it should be for qualified people)

The Liberals promise post secondary education breaks (vote buying I guess), the NDP will offer small business tax breaks (vote-buying). Everything is vote buying that is a simple fact, that is what elections produce. The only thing you wait on is if they keep their word.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/pol ... le2000456/

What a pitiful election and crappy candidates....mores lies from the Conservative Party.....I think every party has looked incredibily bad this election (yes even the Green's) makes you shake your head and wonder.....