Should welfare recipiants have to do community service?

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  • Digital Twilight
    Digital Twilight Posts: 5,642
    pandora wrote:
    Seems to be many here do agree with me and I'm guessing many in our communities do too. :? Ok this message board isn't a national survey :lol:
    ( is it just me or do you folks here pick on me :lol: ) Just your imagination ;)
    Free rides are not a good thing...most everyone can agree with that I think... I would hope. Agreed

    It doesn't promote feeling good about yourself or feeling apart of the community. OK

    Having the able bodied work and serve the community raises their self esteem
    Ok this kinda just contradicts the above sentence
    also shows others who are working their butts off to pay for those on aid,
    that the those on aid care about their community and want to contribute.
    You are assuming that they A. care about the community and B. care what everyone else thinks. To be honest I think most people who are working full time don't care about their community anyway so I don't know why you think anyone should feel differently. Maybe you live in a nice area I don't know
    This is good for everyone.

    As far as forcing it is a working situation. The able body works and gets paid for it.
    Like in society. Or they don't get paid. Like we all learned ...give give get get.
    My son is forced to get up at dawn and work til 8pm or I guess he could go on aid :?
    I would argue that welfare is just so people can survive and a working wage is so you can live. You know buy things you want and go on holiday ect I'm not sure what you get in the US but in the UK the basic is £45 ish a week (you get more on top if you have dependents and things like that)
    We are all forced to do we what we do to earn our way. Yup to a point
    The welfare recipients can learn and grow from this concept also. They can and some won't

    Perhaps one solution is to give welfare recipients the choice to do some work and in return they recieve an increase in their payment or supermarket vouchers or something. The problem with that of course is that you don't want to make it too comfortable living like that because you want them to get back into work. But again if your on welfare and your able to work then you should be spending every day looking for work. Job hunting is a full time job itself I think.
  • FiveB247x
    FiveB247x Posts: 2,330
    But if someone works for most of their life and pays into the system, and then uses it for x amount of time (within the confines of reasonable length without corruption), how have they not contributed? They're not "living off of others" as you claim, but simply taking out a portion of what they put in.
    pandora wrote:
    Ok I just said idle(not working) and able bodied( not disabled)
    We can force and should force people who live off of others hard earned money to work.
    And as always the analogies reallly suck.
    I think debaters should refrain from that cause they can never make a good one :lol:

    in my opinion
    CONservative governMENt

    Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
  • pandora
    pandora Posts: 21,855
    chadwick wrote:
    pandora... you and your husband could not survive on $10.50 per hour without drastic changes to your lifestyle.

    minimum wage in georgia is $5.25?
    that is a joke...right?
    yes that is a joke is the national 8.00 or something I thought I heard that?

    Probably why our crime is one of the highest here in GA

    and they just voted down the liquor sales on Sunday thing
    talk about rights being taken away ;)


    actually we are living on less than that now...we live on our 401 k retirement money to help keep our biz afloat for the kids...loaning much of it to the biz.
    And our house we bought in 96 ...the house next door sold for the same amount a couple years ago.
    Can't sell ours so the nest egg is gone there.

    What this govt /economy is doing to us hard working folk is a down right sin.

    uh oh now I'm depressed :lol:
  • pandora
    pandora Posts: 21,855
    FiveB247x wrote:
    But if someone works for most of their life and pays into the system, and then uses it for x amount of time (within the confines of reasonable length without corruption), how have they not contributed? They're not "living off of others" as you claim, but simply taking out a portion of what they put in.
    pandora wrote:
    Ok I just said idle(not working) and able bodied( not disabled)
    We can force and should force people who live off of others hard earned money to work.
    And as always the analogies reallly suck.
    I think debaters should refrain from that cause they can never make a good one :lol:

    in my opinion
    are you taking about seniors?

    Cause I've been thinking I might apply for aid...and I'll do community service no problem
    I've been paying in forever.
  • Loulou
    Loulou Adelaide Posts: 6,247
    It is hard in this day and age mate :) and I think that's why people get upset with the people who sit on the arses and do nothing while they work so damn hard. To be quite honest with you, after paying the mortgage, the council rates, the telephone, the gas, the electricity, the water all the stupid friggin levys, there is very little left at the end of the day. I know it's not black and white because there are some people who don't quite work a 40 hour week but do work and there are some people who have disabilities and there are the mums who need help but there are some people who do nothing and are the first to complain about doing work. They should be made to help, coz like I said before, why the hell not?
    P.s. Don't be depressed dude... :D
    “ "Thank you Palestrina. It’s a wonderful evening, it’s great to be here and I wanna dedicate you a super sexy song." " (last words of Mark Sandman of Morphine)


    Adelaide 1998
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    Adelaide BIG DAY OUT 2014
  • pandora
    pandora Posts: 21,855
    Digital Twilight wrote:
    pandora wrote:
    Seems to be many here do agree with me and I'm guessing many in our communities do too. :? Ok this message board isn't a national survey :lol:
    ( is it just me or do you folks here pick on me :lol: ) Just your imagination ;)
    Free rides are not a good thing...most everyone can agree with that I think... I would hope. Agreed

    It doesn't promote feeling good about yourself or feeling apart of the community. OK

    Having the able bodied work and serve the community raises their self esteem
    Ok this kinda just contradicts the above sentence
    also shows others who are working their butts off to pay for those on aid,
    that the those on aid care about their community and want to contribute.
    You are assuming that they A. care about the community and B. care what everyone else thinks. To be honest I think most people who are working full time don't care about their community anyway so I don't know why you think anyone should feel differently. Maybe you live in a nice area I don't know
    This is good for everyone.

    As far as forcing it is a working situation. The able body works and gets paid for it.
    Like in society. Or they don't get paid. Like we all learned ...give give get get.
    My son is forced to get up at dawn and work til 8pm or I guess he could go on aid :?
    I would argue that welfare is just so people can survive and a working wage is so you can live. You know buy things you want and go on holiday ect I'm not sure what you get in the US but in the UK the basic is £45 ish a week (you get more on top if you have dependents and things like that)
    We are all forced to do we what we do to earn our way. Yup to a point
    The welfare recipients can learn and grow from this concept also. They can and some won't

    Perhaps one solution is to give welfare recipients the choice to do some work and in return they recieve an increase in their payment or supermarket vouchers or something. The problem with that of course is that you don't want to make it too comfortable living like that because you want them to get back into work. But again if your on welfare and your able to work then you should be spending every day looking for work. Job hunting is a full time job itself I think.
    Problem with that their are no jobs.
    My son might not mind being on aid...he threatens all the time ;)
    my contradiction you missed...I said not working is not a good thing
    but community services raises self esteem.
    You also miss the point on the hard working people giving their money to provide for someone else. It would help to know that person cared enough to get off their duff and serve their community.

    Hey you guys should get out of here and come listen to some music in the rate thread or timeless thread
    It's Friday!!!! :D Maybe we can dance a bit and have a cocktail 8-)
  • FiveB247x
    FiveB247x Posts: 2,330
    No I'm strictly talking about people on welfare. If a person works (before, after or during on Welfare), they contribute to taxes and pay into the system. A person isn't on welfare their whole life. So to assume soley because they're not contributing while on the benefits is not the same as recognition of contribution at other points in time.
    pandora wrote:
    are you taking about seniors?

    Cause I've been thinking I might apply for aid...and I'll do community service no problem
    I've been paying in forever.
    CONservative governMENt

    Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
  • chadwick
    chadwick up my ass Posts: 21,157
    pandora wrote:
    chadwick wrote:
    pandora... you and your husband could not survive on $10.50 per hour without drastic changes to your lifestyle.

    minimum wage in georgia is $5.25?
    that is a joke...right?
    yes that is a joke is the national 8.00 or something I thought I heard that?

    Probably why our crime is one of the highest here in GA

    and they just voted down the liquor sales on Sunday thing
    talk about rights being taken away ;)


    actually we are living on less than that now...we live on our 401 k retirement money to help keep our biz afloat for the kids...loaning much of it to the biz.
    And our house we bought in 96 ...the house next door sold for the same amount a couple years ago.
    Can't sell ours so the nest egg is gone there.

    What this govt /economy is doing to us hard working folk is a down right sin.

    uh oh now I'm depressed :lol:
    get a second job & quit your whining. ;)

    keeping the biz afloat for the kids. why?
    they are all over printing?
    for poetry through the ceiling. ISBN: 1 4241 8840 7

    "Hear me, my chiefs!
    I am tired; my heart is
    sick and sad. From where
    the sun stands I will fight
    no more forever."
    Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
  • pandora
    pandora Posts: 21,855
    chadwick wrote:
    pandora wrote:
    chadwick wrote:
    pandora... you and your husband could not survive on $10.50 per hour without drastic changes to your lifestyle.

    minimum wage in georgia is $5.25?
    that is a joke...right?
    yes that is a joke is the national 8.00 or something I thought I heard that?

    Probably why our crime is one of the highest here in GA

    and they just voted down the liquor sales on Sunday thing
    talk about rights being taken away ;)


    actually we are living on less than that now...we live on our 401 k retirement money to help keep our biz afloat for the kids...loaning much of it to the biz.
    And our house we bought in 96 ...the house next door sold for the same amount a couple years ago.
    Can't sell ours so the nest egg is gone there.

    What this govt /economy is doing to us hard working folk is a down right sin.

    uh oh now I'm depressed :lol:
    get a second job & quit your whining. ;)

    keeping the biz afloat for the kids. why?
    they are all over printing?
    I love your humor...you were kidding right? ...I would never be here and I am working...
    honest :D

    My son is good at what he does but not many karat presses in the country. I think a dozen maybe. I'm not willing to take the chance on unemployment for him and his friends that work with us.
    Besides it's good for him to work with his Pa.

    Daughter is in school works with us making enough...more than she would anywhere else ;)
    to live on her own.

    We'll see... you know me forever hopeful...maybe the economy will turn around and we will start making money like the 90's

    hey maybe "they" will super inflate everything again so it looks like everything is fine ;) Ah the 90's
    and sugar daddies and pretend prosperity
  • pandora
    pandora Posts: 21,855
    FiveB247x wrote:
    No I'm strictly talking about people on welfare. If a person works (before, after or during on Welfare), they contribute to taxes and pay into the system. A person isn't on welfare their whole life. So to assume soley because they're not contributing while on the benefits is not the same as recognition of contribution at other points in time.
    pandora wrote:
    are you taking about seniors?

    Cause I've been thinking I might apply for aid...and I'll do community service no problem
    I've been paying in forever.
    yes but if they are idle and able bodied why not do community service?
    like you said it builds compassion... you think it a good thing you said.
  • Blockhead
    Blockhead Posts: 1,538
    WHy should I be FORCED to pay into the welfare program??? Once you can answer this, that will be your answer for why people on welfare (who are able) should be doing community service.
  • Blockhead
    Blockhead Posts: 1,538
    FiveB247x wrote:
    How about people who have jobs but need assistance? Or perhaps people with disabilities on assistance? Or how bout just anyone with some spare time we think should contribute more to society? My point is, we can't pick and choose arbitrarily who should have to do such things because they are on assistance or any other program. I personally feel anyone watching American Idol should stop and be forced to volunteer, it is good and will do them good, right? Or perhaps we should have fat people work at soup kitchens cause they're so gluttonous? The invisible line of who should have to do such things is completely contrived, without real fact backing it and is a very disingenuous way to try and make people act in a good way. You can't force such things unless their guilty of something that warrants it.
    Really, watching american idol is = to people receiving everybody else money without putting anything back into the system. Fat people do not recieve money also. You are terrible at analogys. A good analogy would be, Why am i forced to pay into a system that gives people money who don't contribute to the same system.
  • chadwick
    chadwick up my ass Posts: 21,157
    people need to eat. people need shelter. people need education. people need work. people need safety.
    if they take a little money from my check to help pay for that stuff, im good with that.

    countries forgive debt to other countries all the time. that is huge dollars i'm assuming.
    having a hard-on for the poor is ridiculous.

    the system needs improvement. fact.
    the system needs improvement globally. fact.
    for poetry through the ceiling. ISBN: 1 4241 8840 7

    "Hear me, my chiefs!
    I am tired; my heart is
    sick and sad. From where
    the sun stands I will fight
    no more forever."
    Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
  • satansbed
    satansbed Posts: 2,139
    HeidiJam wrote:
    WHy should I be FORCED to pay into the welfare program??? Once you can answer this, that will be your answer for why people on welfare (who are able) should be doing community service.
    because it benefits your community, which is partly why you want people to do community service for welfare..................
  • Blockhead
    Blockhead Posts: 1,538
    satansbed wrote:
    HeidiJam wrote:
    WHy should I be FORCED to pay into the welfare program??? Once you can answer this, that will be your answer for why people on welfare (who are able) should be doing community service.
    because it benefits your community, which is partly why you want people to do community service for welfare..................
    But................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................They arent doing any community service..................................................................................
    So whats your point?
  • Blockhead
    Blockhead Posts: 1,538
    chadwick wrote:
    people need to eat. people need shelter. people need education. people need work. people need safety.
    if they take a little money from my check to help pay for that stuff, im good with that.

    countries forgive debt to other countries all the time. that is huge dollars i'm assuming.
    having a hard-on for the poor is ridiculous.

    the system needs improvement. fact.
    the system needs improvement globally. fact.
    My family needs to eat, my family needs shelter, my family needs education, my family needs safety. WHy is it alright to take the money I work for (that should be going to my family) and giving it to a group who do not give back to society. Why are you not asking for the poor to give back to society??? If they can't with money, why not with their time, since they are not working. A little money from peoples pay check could make all the difference. I don't have a hard on for the poor, I expect people to be responsible for THIER OWN LIVES... I know thats a hard concept to understand here at AMT.
  • _
    _ Posts: 6,657
    If we don't want our tax money going for welfare, maybe we should start by paying people a living wage. As it stands, the working poor are subsidizing US by having their labor exploited so we don't have to pay fair prices for the things we buy. We have to make up the difference (read: pay what we owe) somehow.
  • FiveB247x
    FiveB247x Posts: 2,330
    Who says individuals get to pick and choose what programs and areas of focus our tax funds go too? Since when did this become ok to do or request? I am forced to pay for policemen who milk overtime and don't prevent crime (locally). I am forced to pay for a federal budget with hands out billions to foreign nations or supports terror and wars throughout the world. You know why we can't force otherwise, because our system doesn't account nor couldn't support it.

    Also, how come you don't seem to acknowledge the fact that the majority of people on benefits contribute to the system? In your fantasy land, do people just get free benefits for their entire life and never work or pay taxes? Please do discuss this fact because it's the elephant in the room.
    HeidiJam wrote:
    Really, watching american idol is = to people receiving everybody else money without putting anything back into the system. Fat people do not recieve money also. You are terrible at analogys. A good analogy would be, Why am i forced to pay into a system that gives people money who don't contribute to the same system.
    CONservative governMENt

    Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
  • Blockhead
    Blockhead Posts: 1,538
    FiveB247x wrote:
    Who says individuals get to pick and choose what programs and areas of focus our tax funds go too? Since when did this become ok to do or request? I am forced to pay for policemen who milk overtime and don't prevent crime (locally). I am forced to pay for a federal budget with hands out billions to foreign nations or supports terror and wars throughout the world. You know why we can't force otherwise, because our system doesn't account nor couldn't support it.

    Also, how come you don't seem to acknowledge the fact that the majority of people on benefits contribute to the system? In your fantasy land, do people just get free benefits for their entire life and never work or pay taxes? Please do discuss this fact because it's the elephant in the room.
    It seems as if you don't have much to say anymore since you are now comparing welfare recipiants to polilce officers and military budget. If you don't see the benefits of police and military then this is a lost cause. Paying into the police system and military do have benefits of us, and if not us directly then provide help to the community. Also I like how you get all up in arms when I generalize people on welfare yet you generalize police as milking overtime??? Most people on welfare don't contribute, they pay nothing into the system they are taking from. And YES they do get free benefits for who knows how long, do you think people who are on welfare after 5 years suddenly get their life together??? Its no elephant, I at least have knowledge/work in my city with these people, and my wife does daily. You are basing your opinion on what experiences. Have you ever been to an inner city area?
  • satansbed
    satansbed Posts: 2,139
    HeidiJam wrote:
    satansbed wrote:
    HeidiJam wrote:
    WHy should I be FORCED to pay into the welfare program??? Once you can answer this, that will be your answer for why people on welfare (who are able) should be doing community service.
    because it benefits your community, which is partly why you want people to do community service for welfare..................
    But................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................They arent doing any community service..................................................................................
    So whats your point?

    so basicly your saying people on welfare should help your community but because you work you dont have to??

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