I agree with you and would even remove the donating money part. People change when they see and feel things directly. Donating money is a nice gesture, but actually volunteering and doing that directly changes people for the better. It creates compassion.
I think everyone should be required to do a certain number of hours of community service per week or month. Especially high school or college students. And, the way to opt out would be to donate $$$ to a charity.
We're all in this together, and it's about time we realized it. The better and the stronger society is, the better off we all would be.
P.S. Before you bash me and start slinging accusations, you should know that I do not care what you say
CONservative governMENt
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
i'd enjoy it if the wealthy dicks in this country picked up trash in the slums and on roadways.
that one broad always in trouble,,, lindsey lohan
that chic should be sifting through trash up to her stupid neck in search of plastic water bottles for recycling.
then she and her spoiled little ass friends who fuck up and break the law should be made to live on welfare or something fun like that.
charlie sheen... busted every other day for something
community service, wearing a striped jump suit, picking his nose on the shoulder of i-5 or something.
then they should burn all his cash, melt his credit cards, and then kick him in the balls
I knew exactly what you meant which is why I stated my below comment. Who are you or any one else to tell who needs to grow or improve or who to respect or what they need to do on a personal or volunteer level? And the simple insinuation that people on welfare need to do these things instead of just simply all of our society says tons of negative things by itself. Everyone in society loves telling everyone else how they need to act, think, feel and be, but don't want it directed at them. I'd sooner here someone just flat out say our society should do community service as a whole to better everyone and the nation we live, than solely and misguidedly tossing a group in need of such things. It's rather biased, naive and controlling. If you asked me, we have far more people in need of morality adjustments who have lots of money and jobs compared to those on some welfare program.
Actually I was asking you and others against community service those questions :? not people on aid.
Why wouldn't you want the people on welfare to have an opportunity to better themselves?
seems like you are holding them back, thinking you are saving them
when actually you are not doing them any favors by not expecting anything from them.
You are keeping them from learning and growing and feeling better about themselves.
Thats what we are here to do ...grow and learn from life experiences and to help one another.
Perhaps you have a different idea as why people are given the gift of life,
and it is gift not to be wasted.
Hey I already have posted many times the positives and that everyone would do well to experience community service because it is an opportunity not a punishment.
You perhaps might enjoy the positive effects, it would bring some understanding of the benefits.
You would also see where many of us are coming from which is not to find fault
with people but to give them opportunity to be a working part of society. That is a good thing.
Ok we're getting to the point of repeating ourselves.
I agree with everything you're saying except for the fact one specific group should be forced to do this. People who commit crimes have to payback society doing this debt which hopefully helps them. People on welfare (the vast majority of them) don't owe any debt to society which is the main issue.
Hey I already have posted many times the positives and that everyone would do well to experience community service because it is an opportunity not a punishment.
You perhaps might enjoy the positive effects, it would bring some understanding of the benefits.
You would also see where many of us are coming from which is not to find fault
with people but to give them opportunity to be a working part of society. That is a good thing.
CONservative governMENt
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
quote="FiveB247x"]I agree with you and would even remove the donating money part. People change when they see and feel things directly. Donating money is a nice gesture, but actually volunteering and doing that directly changes people for the better. It creates compassion.
I'm confused if you think serving the community is a good thing that teaches compassion why shouldn't people on aid do it?
And again community service is given by the courts for the same reason,not as a punishment, but as an avenue for personal growth and promoting a sense of community.
The same reason those on aid should be required to do it and you and I also.
A. Many people on welfare already work harder than the rest of us.
B. If we think they should do it because it's so good for the soul, then we should make everyone do it.
not sure where you live but i'd love to find the place where 'welfare' recipients are working harder than the rest of us. frankly that's just insulting to someone who works 40-60 hours a week, every week. and don't use the excuse that many of them are single mothers or whatever. can't afford children then put a damn condom on.
Yes, it is insulting for someone to think they work harder than someone else who works 40-60 hours a week, every week, isn't it? So then you should understand how insulting this idea is to welfare recipients, many of whom work 40-60 hours a week, every week.
I guess I shouldn't have said many people on welfare already work HARDER than THE REST of us. Your point is taken - many of them work harder than some of us, but some of us (like yourself) work just as hard as many welfare recipients.
Causation/Correlation: There may be a relationship between two events, but one doesn't necessarily cause the other. What correlation does someone being on welfare and being in need/assistance with having to do community service? They have zero to do with one another. I'll give you a football example, for instance, 100% of teams that kneel in the fourth quarter win games. Kneeling on the football is NOT a strategy to win games.
I'm confused if you think serving the community is a good thing that teaches compassion why shouldn't people on aid do it?
And again community service is given by the courts for the same reason,not as a punishment, but as an avenue for personal growth and promoting a sense of community.
The same reason those on aid should be required to do it and you and I also.
It doesn't hurt it only helps.
CONservative governMENt
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
quote="FiveB247x"]I agree with you and would even remove the donating money part. People change when they see and feel things directly. Donating money is a nice gesture, but actually volunteering and doing that directly changes people for the better. It creates compassion.
I'm confused if you think serving the community is a good thing that teaches compassion why shouldn't people on aid do it?
And again community service is given by the courts for the same reason,not as a punishment, but as an avenue for personal growth and promoting a sense of community.
The same reason those on aid should be required to do it and you and I also.
It doesn't hurt it only helps.
Community service is assigned by the courts as an alternative to light jail sentences. It is also given to those who are not in a financial position to pay their fines.
Causation/Correlation: There may be a relationship between two events, but one doesn't necessarily cause the other. What correlation does someone being on welfare and being in need/assistance with having to do community service? They have zero to do with one another. I'll give you a football example, for instance, 100% of teams that kneel in the fourth quarter win games. Kneeling on the football is NOT a strategy to win games.
I'm confused if you think serving the community is a good thing that teaches compassion why shouldn't people on aid do it?
And again community service is given by the courts for the same reason,not as a punishment, but as an avenue for personal growth and promoting a sense of community.
The same reason those on aid should be required to do it and you and I also.
It doesn't hurt it only helps.
Ha don't go to football love it but am still learning
whats your point again?
you don't see why people on aid should do community service...haven't we beaten that horse to death yet?
They should cause it would do them good just like it does everyone good.
If those on welfare are sitting idle and are able bodied they can give back to community.
Pretty simple concept to me.
quote="FiveB247x"]I agree with you and would even remove the donating money part. People change when they see and feel things directly. Donating money is a nice gesture, but actually volunteering and doing that directly changes people for the better. It creates compassion.
I'm confused if you think serving the community is a good thing that teaches compassion why shouldn't people on aid do it?
And again community service is given by the courts for the same reason,not as a punishment, but as an avenue for personal growth and promoting a sense of community.
The same reason those on aid should be required to do it and you and I also.
It doesn't hurt it only helps.
Community service is assigned by the courts as an alternative to light jail sentences. It is also given to those who are not in a financial position to pay their fines.
Yes this true but the basis behind it is to serve the community and gain a sense of community.
This actually works too.
Otherwise their butts would be in jail earning tax dollars per butt for the community
A. Many people on welfare already work harder than the rest of us.
B. If we think they should do it because it's so good for the soul, then we should make everyone do it.
not sure where you live but i'd love to find the place where 'welfare' recipients are working harder than the rest of us. frankly that's just insulting to someone who works 40-60 hours a week, every week. and don't use the excuse that many of them are single mothers or whatever. can't afford children then put a damn condom on.
Yes, it is insulting for someone to think they work harder than someone else who works 40-60 hours a week, every week, isn't it? So then you should understand how insulting this idea is to welfare recipients, many of whom work 40-60 hours a week, every week.
I guess I shouldn't have said many people on welfare already work HARDER than THE REST of us. Your point is taken - many of them work harder than some of us, but some of us (like yourself) work just as hard as many welfare recipients.
so are you trying to say there are welfare recipients working 40-60 hours a week?
not sure where you live but i'd love to find the place where 'welfare' recipients are working harder than the rest of us. frankly that's just insulting to someone who works 40-60 hours a week, every week. and don't use the excuse that many of them are single mothers or whatever. can't afford children then put a damn condom on.
Yes, it is insulting for someone to think they work harder than someone else who works 40-60 hours a week, every week, isn't it? So then you should understand how insulting this idea is to welfare recipients, many of whom work 40-60 hours a week, every week.
I guess I shouldn't have said many people on welfare already work HARDER than THE REST of us. Your point is taken - many of them work harder than some of us, but some of us (like yourself) work just as hard as many welfare recipients.
so are you trying to say there are welfare recipients working 40-60 hours a week?
I not sure exactly how our country does it because I haven't been out of work for a reeeeally long time but I am pretty sure that if you are on the dole for a certain period of time, you have to either study or do some type of community work or you just don't get paid. I would agree that everyone should do it but I look at my husband who works 6-7 days a week starts at 5:00am and comes home completely rooted at 7:00pm and wonder how he could fit that in and pay our mortgage? But I certainly agree that if you are doing nothing and your able-bodied, bloody oath you should be doing some type of work because let's face it, my husband is paying their way as well as ours.
“ "Thank you Palestrina. It’s a wonderful evening, it’s great to be here and I wanna dedicate you a super sexy song." " (last words of Mark Sandman of Morphine)
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Adelaide BIG DAY OUT 2014
I not sure exactly how our country does it because I haven't been out of work for a reeeeally long time but I am pretty sure that if you are on the dole for a certain period of time, you have to either study or do some type of community work or you just don't get paid. I would agree that everyone should do it but I look at my husband who works 6-7 days a week starts at 5:00am and comes home completely rooted at 7:00pm and wonder how he could fit that in and pay our mortgage? But I certainly agree that if you are doing nothing and your able-bodied, bloody oath you should be doing some type of work because let's face it, my husband is paying their way as well as ours.
Hey I already have posted many times the positives and that everyone would do well to experience community service because it is an opportunity not a punishment.
You perhaps might enjoy the positive effects, it would bring some understanding of the benefits.
You would also see where many of us are coming from which is not to find fault
with people but to give them opportunity to be a working part of society. That is a good thing.
I think your seeing this whole debate just from your own POV and not anyone else's. Not everyone thinks like you i'm afraid. You know what? Education and going to University is a great opportunity isn't it? but not everyone embraces that. Some people don't take it as a chance to grow and expand their mind and work out a better future for themselves. Not everyone is going to see or care what they are doing to the community or see it as a opportunity.
I'm going to Africa in the summer to do some volunteer work there, I will get that sense of benefiting the community and the positive effects because it's what I want to do and it's what i'm looking for. Do you think if we forced people to do it they will care? Forcing people into your own thought pattern doesn't work, not in this situation.
I'm not gonna say that this is a rubbish idea but more consideration and thought is needed before we start forcing people into doing things. I imagine some people on welfare could feel disconnected with the rest of the 'community' so anything we can do to bring people back in, so to speak, is a good thing. Forced labour isn't. I just think some people here are a little too quick to push them into this.
But I certainly agree that if you are doing nothing and your able-bodied, bloody oath you should be doing some type of work because let's face it, my husband is paying their way as well as ours.
I agree you should be doing *something* but what that entails and what it should be is under debate. What type of community service are we talking about here?
I not sure exactly how our country does it because I haven't been out of work for a reeeeally long time but I am pretty sure that if you are on the dole for a certain period of time, you have to either study or do some type of community work or you just don't get paid. I would agree that everyone should do it but I look at my husband who works 6-7 days a week starts at 5:00am and comes home completely rooted at 7:00pm and wonder how he could fit that in and pay our mortgage? But I certainly agree that if you are doing nothing and your able-bodied, bloody oath you should be doing some type of work because let's face it, my husband is paying their way as well as ours.
Don't think these people should do anything completely humiliating, I know some people from Australia help out environmentally with Conservation Corps. I think ultimately, it gets them used to getting up in the morning and out and having that mind-set of working, rather than getting up at 12, sitting there watching T.V. all day and then, when they do get a job, have it be such a dramatic change to their lifestyle that they end up quitting. Not only that but if I was an employer, I would much rather see that the person was doing some kind of activity rather than nothing.
“ "Thank you Palestrina. It’s a wonderful evening, it’s great to be here and I wanna dedicate you a super sexy song." " (last words of Mark Sandman of Morphine)
Adelaide 1998
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Adelaide BIG DAY OUT 2014
How about people who have jobs but need assistance? Or perhaps people with disabilities on assistance? Or how bout just anyone with some spare time we think should contribute more to society? My point is, we can't pick and choose arbitrarily who should have to do such things because they are on assistance or any other program. I personally feel anyone watching American Idol should stop and be forced to volunteer, it is good and will do them good, right? Or perhaps we should have fat people work at soup kitchens cause they're so gluttonous? The invisible line of who should have to do such things is completely contrived, without real fact backing it and is a very disingenuous way to try and make people act in a good way. You can't force such things unless their guilty of something that warrants it.
They should cause it would do them good just like it does everyone good.
If those on welfare are sitting idle and are able bodied they can give back to community.
Pretty simple concept to me.
CONservative governMENt
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
Don't think these people should do anything completely humiliating, I know some people from Australia help out environmentally with Conservation Corps. I think ultimately, it gets them used to getting up in the morning and out and having that mind-set of working, rather than getting up at 12, sitting there watching T.V. all day and then, when they do get a job, have it be such a dramatic change to their lifestyle that they end up quitting. Not only that but if I was an employer, I would much rather see that the person was doing some kind of activity rather than nothing.
Very true. There is saying here in ye olde England, 'Looking for a job is a full time job' and I think thats true. It takes a massive amount of time to properly look for a job, if your doing it correctly and not just a weekly trip down to the job center. Yes being active like doing conservation and volunteer work looks good to employers, it says a lot about that individual and gives him / her an edge getting back employed. If you force everyone to do it then the decent workers could lose that edge.
I ask what kind of 'volunteer' activities because I just wonder whether these are things that could be turned into a paying job. I have been in a position of being unemployed (was only 4 weeks) but it does have a massive pyscological effect and so can being forced to do charity work because your on welfare.
Well in our country, you do get paid to do that work. I mean call at 'assistance' or call it 'dole money' you get paid. I see your point about dividing the decent workers from the slackers but ultimately, an employer won't keep on a slacker forever anyway.
I guess the REAL question is:
If your able-bodied and doing no type of work, why SHOULDN'T you help out your community? :?
“ "Thank you Palestrina. It’s a wonderful evening, it’s great to be here and I wanna dedicate you a super sexy song." " (last words of Mark Sandman of Morphine)
Adelaide 1998
Adelaide 2003
Adelaide 2006 night 1
Adelaide 2006 night 2
Adelaide 2009
Melbourne 2009
Christchurch NZ 2009
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PJ20 USA 2011 night 1
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Adelaide BIG DAY OUT 2014
Hey I already have posted many times the positives and that everyone would do well to experience community service because it is an opportunity not a punishment.
You perhaps might enjoy the positive effects, it would bring some understanding of the benefits.
You would also see where many of us are coming from which is not to find fault
with people but to give them opportunity to be a working part of society. That is a good thing.
I think your seeing this whole debate just from your own POV and not anyone else's. Not everyone thinks like you i'm afraid. You know what? Education and going to University is a great opportunity isn't it? but not everyone embraces that. Some people don't take it as a chance to grow and expand their mind and work out a better future for themselves. Not everyone is going to see or care what they are doing to the community or see it as a opportunity.
I'm going to Africa in the summer to do some volunteer work there, I will get that sense of benefiting the community and the positive effects because it's what I want to do and it's what i'm looking for. Do you think if we forced people to do it they will care? Forcing people into your own thought pattern doesn't work, not in this situation.
I'm not gonna say that this is a rubbish idea but more consideration and thought is needed before we start forcing people into doing things. I imagine some people on welfare could feel disconnected with the rest of the 'community' so anything we can do to bring people back in, so to speak, is a good thing. Forced labour isn't. I just think some people here are a little too quick to push them into this.
But I certainly agree that if you are doing nothing and your able-bodied, bloody oath you should be doing some type of work because let's face it, my husband is paying their way as well as ours.
I agree you should be doing *something* but what that entails and what it should be is under debate. What type of community service are we talking about here?
Seems to be many here do agree with me and I'm guessing many in our communities do too. :?
( is it just me or do you folks here pick on me )
Free rides are not a good thing...most everyone can agree with that I think... I would hope.
It doesn't promote feeling good about yourself or feeling apart of the community.
Having the able bodied work and serve the community raises their self esteem
also shows others who are working their butts off to pay for those on aid,
that the those on aid care about their community and want to contribute.
This is good for everyone.
As far as forcing it is a working situation. The able body works and gets paid for it.
Like in society. Or they don't get paid. Like we all learned ...give give get get.
My son is forced to get up at dawn and work til 8pm or I guess he could go on aid :?
We are all forced to do we what we do to earn our way.
The welfare recipients can learn and grow from this concept also.
How about people who have jobs but need assistance? Or perhaps people with disabilities on assistance? Or how bout just anyone with some spare time we think should contribute more to society? My point is, we can't pick and choose arbitrarily who should have to do such things because they are on assistance or any other program. I personally feel anyone watching American Idol should stop and be forced to volunteer, it is good and will do them good, right? Or perhaps we should have fat people work at soup kitchens cause they're so gluttonous? The invisible line of who should have to do such things is completely contrived, without real fact backing it and is a very disingenuous way to try and make people act in a good way. You can't force such things unless their guilty of something that warrants it.
They should cause it would do them good just like it does everyone good.
If those on welfare are sitting idle and are able bodied they can give back to community.
Pretty simple concept to me.
Ok I just said idle(not working) and able bodied( not disabled)
We can force and should force people who live off of others hard earned money to work.
And as always the analogies reallly suck.
I think debaters should refrain from that cause they can never make a good one
Well in our country, you do get paid to do that work. I mean call at 'assistance' or call it 'dole money' you get paid. I see your point about dividing the decent workers from the slackers but ultimately, an employer won't keep on a slacker forever anyway.
I guess the REAL question is:
If your able-bodied and doing no type of work, why SHOULDN'T you help out your community? :?
Maybe it's different employment laws there but once you hire someone it isn't easy to get rid of them at all.
You are right i guess, why shouldn't you?
Problem is there are far too many people of the mind set of why should I?
Why shouldn't you want to eat healthy? Why would you want to smoke? Why would you take drugs? Why don't you exercise? Why don't you take an evening class? Why don't you help your child out with their homework instead of watching TV? etc. Point is we rarely (as a species) do what we are supposed to do or should do.
so are you trying to say there are welfare recipients working 40-60 hours a week?
Yes.
not any where i'm from or around my area. are you in the US? maybe our definition of welfare is different.
Yes, I'm in the U.S. and part of my job is to work with Welfare recipients. MANY of them work their asses off at low-paying jobs. Some have TWO FULL-TIME jobs just to make ends meet at minimum wage.
I am only talking about the people who are doing NOTHING.
I know it isn't easy these days to get rid of someone who's slack at work but really you just give them a warning, if they fly right after that, sweet, if not, another warning. After that, see you later. It's annoying but can be done. Besides, most jobs have a trial basis to start with now.
I just think it should be:
Be a lazy bugger and sit on your arse=No Money
Or let's face it, we would all do it! Then where the hell will their money come from?)
“ "Thank you Palestrina. It’s a wonderful evening, it’s great to be here and I wanna dedicate you a super sexy song." " (last words of Mark Sandman of Morphine)
Adelaide 1998
Adelaide 2003
Adelaide 2006 night 1
Adelaide 2006 night 2
Adelaide 2009
Melbourne 2009
Christchurch NZ 2009
Eddie Vedder, Adelaide 2011
PJ20 USA 2011 night 1
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Adelaide BIG DAY OUT 2014
not any where i'm from or around my area. are you in the US? maybe our definition of welfare is different.
Yes, I'm in the U.S. and part of my job is to work with Welfare recipients. MANY of them work their asses off at low-paying jobs. Some have TWO FULL-TIME jobs just to make ends meet at minimum wage.
2 fulltime jobs at minimum wage is equal to $10.50 per hour here in Georgia
so how much more do they get in aid or are we talking food stamps?
not any where i'm from or around my area. are you in the US? maybe our definition of welfare is different.
Yes, I'm in the U.S. and part of my job is to work with Welfare recipients. MANY of them work their asses off at low-paying jobs. Some have TWO FULL-TIME jobs just to make ends meet at minimum wage.
2 fulltime jobs at minimum wage is equal to $10.50 per hour here in Georgia
so how much more do they get in aid or are we talking food stamps?
pandora... you and your husband could not survive on $10.50 per hour without drastic changes to your lifestyle.
minimum wage in georgia is $5.25?
that is a joke...right?
Comments
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
that one broad always in trouble,,, lindsey lohan
that chic should be sifting through trash up to her stupid neck in search of plastic water bottles for recycling.
then she and her spoiled little ass friends who fuck up and break the law should be made to live on welfare or something fun like that.
charlie sheen... busted every other day for something
community service, wearing a striped jump suit, picking his nose on the shoulder of i-5 or something.
then they should burn all his cash, melt his credit cards, and then kick him in the balls
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
You perhaps might enjoy the positive effects, it would bring some understanding of the benefits.
You would also see where many of us are coming from which is not to find fault
with people but to give them opportunity to be a working part of society. That is a good thing.
I agree with everything you're saying except for the fact one specific group should be forced to do this. People who commit crimes have to payback society doing this debt which hopefully helps them. People on welfare (the vast majority of them) don't owe any debt to society which is the main issue.
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
And again community service is given by the courts for the same reason,not as a punishment, but as an avenue for personal growth and promoting a sense of community.
The same reason those on aid should be required to do it and you and I also.
It doesn't hurt it only helps.
Yes, it is insulting for someone to think they work harder than someone else who works 40-60 hours a week, every week, isn't it? So then you should understand how insulting this idea is to welfare recipients, many of whom work 40-60 hours a week, every week.
I guess I shouldn't have said many people on welfare already work HARDER than THE REST of us. Your point is taken - many of them work harder than some of us, but some of us (like yourself) work just as hard as many welfare recipients.
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
Community service is assigned by the courts as an alternative to light jail sentences. It is also given to those who are not in a financial position to pay their fines.
whats your point again?
you don't see why people on aid should do community service...haven't we beaten that horse to death yet?
They should cause it would do them good just like it does everyone good.
If those on welfare are sitting idle and are able bodied they can give back to community.
Pretty simple concept to me.
Yes this true but the basis behind it is to serve the community and gain a sense of community.
This actually works too.
Otherwise their butts would be in jail earning tax dollars per butt for the community
so are you trying to say there are welfare recipients working 40-60 hours a week?
Yes.
Adelaide 1998
Adelaide 2003
Adelaide 2006 night 1
Adelaide 2006 night 2
Adelaide 2009
Melbourne 2009
Christchurch NZ 2009
Eddie Vedder, Adelaide 2011
PJ20 USA 2011 night 1
PJ20 USA 2011 night 2
Adelaide BIG DAY OUT 2014
Yes.[/quote]
not any where i'm from or around my area. are you in the US? maybe our definition of welfare is different.
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
I think your seeing this whole debate just from your own POV and not anyone else's. Not everyone thinks like you i'm afraid. You know what? Education and going to University is a great opportunity isn't it? but not everyone embraces that. Some people don't take it as a chance to grow and expand their mind and work out a better future for themselves. Not everyone is going to see or care what they are doing to the community or see it as a opportunity.
I'm going to Africa in the summer to do some volunteer work there, I will get that sense of benefiting the community and the positive effects because it's what I want to do and it's what i'm looking for. Do you think if we forced people to do it they will care? Forcing people into your own thought pattern doesn't work, not in this situation.
I'm not gonna say that this is a rubbish idea but more consideration and thought is needed before we start forcing people into doing things. I imagine some people on welfare could feel disconnected with the rest of the 'community' so anything we can do to bring people back in, so to speak, is a good thing. Forced labour isn't. I just think some people here are a little too quick to push them into this.
I agree you should be doing *something* but what that entails and what it should be is under debate. What type of community service are we talking about here?
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Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
Very true. There is saying here in ye olde England, 'Looking for a job is a full time job' and I think thats true. It takes a massive amount of time to properly look for a job, if your doing it correctly and not just a weekly trip down to the job center. Yes being active like doing conservation and volunteer work looks good to employers, it says a lot about that individual and gives him / her an edge getting back employed. If you force everyone to do it then the decent workers could lose that edge.
I ask what kind of 'volunteer' activities because I just wonder whether these are things that could be turned into a paying job. I have been in a position of being unemployed (was only 4 weeks) but it does have a massive pyscological effect and so can being forced to do charity work because your on welfare.
I guess the REAL question is:
If your able-bodied and doing no type of work, why SHOULDN'T you help out your community? :?
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Seems to be many here do agree with me and I'm guessing many in our communities do too. :?
( is it just me or do you folks here pick on me
Free rides are not a good thing...most everyone can agree with that I think... I would hope.
It doesn't promote feeling good about yourself or feeling apart of the community.
Having the able bodied work and serve the community raises their self esteem
also shows others who are working their butts off to pay for those on aid,
that the those on aid care about their community and want to contribute.
This is good for everyone.
As far as forcing it is a working situation. The able body works and gets paid for it.
Like in society. Or they don't get paid. Like we all learned ...give give get get.
My son is forced to get up at dawn and work til 8pm or I guess he could go on aid :?
We are all forced to do we what we do to earn our way.
The welfare recipients can learn and grow from this concept also.
We can force and should force people who live off of others hard earned money to work.
And as always the analogies reallly suck.
I think debaters should refrain from that cause they can never make a good one
in my opinion
Maybe it's different employment laws there but once you hire someone it isn't easy to get rid of them at all.
You are right i guess, why shouldn't you?
Problem is there are far too many people of the mind set of why should I?
Why shouldn't you want to eat healthy? Why would you want to smoke? Why would you take drugs? Why don't you exercise? Why don't you take an evening class? Why don't you help your child out with their homework instead of watching TV? etc. Point is we rarely (as a species) do what we are supposed to do or should do.
Yes, I'm in the U.S. and part of my job is to work with Welfare recipients. MANY of them work their asses off at low-paying jobs. Some have TWO FULL-TIME jobs just to make ends meet at minimum wage.
I know it isn't easy these days to get rid of someone who's slack at work but really you just give them a warning, if they fly right after that, sweet, if not, another warning. After that, see you later. It's annoying but can be done. Besides, most jobs have a trial basis to start with now.
I just think it should be:
Be a lazy bugger and sit on your arse=No Money
Or let's face it, we would all do it! Then where the hell will their money come from?)
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so how much more do they get in aid or are we talking food stamps?
minimum wage in georgia is $5.25?
that is a joke...right?
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I am tired; my heart is
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no more forever."
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