Should welfare recipiants have to do community service?

Blockhead
Blockhead Posts: 1,538
edited February 2011 in A Moving Train
Like title says, should people receiving welfare benefits be required to do community service? Think about it, no one is spending 40+ hours a week looking for jobs/work. What about requiring them to do 20-30 hours of community service a week given out by the local city. It would be a good way to give an incentive to find work. It could also save some tax payer money. Maybe some of those poor innercity areas would not look so bad if all the people on welfare were required to clean the areas up, maintain the playgrounds. What do you think?
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Comments

  • FiveB247x
    FiveB247x Posts: 2,330
    Heidi, you always have a hard-on for the welfare recipients. Why do you always imply that because people are on welfare, that automatically means they're milking or corrupting the system? I don't know about you, but I look around society and see a far greater number of working class people (unions, big business, financiers, etc) who have paying jobs and do a great disservice to society as a whole compared to any small portion actually who are corrupt on benefits assistance programs. And if you think I'm wrong, go ask Wall Street and all the big bankers who destroyed our economy and banking system as a result of greed and corruption (while being paid tons to do so) what they've added to our society compared to someone stealing some food stamps or $1,000 a month? Your skewed version of welfare and benefits assistance programs in comparison to the actual number of people on them and cheating them are far from the reality of it all, not to mention how very little it is compared to the big picture of our society as a whole. I just mentioned one example which blows away anything you justify in comparison.
    CONservative governMENt

    Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
  • cincybearcat
    cincybearcat Posts: 16,882
    Absolutely
    hippiemom = goodness
  • FiveB247x
    FiveB247x Posts: 2,330
    Also, if the real intent is to fix communities, why not force actual guilty people in jail to do such services? Chain gang community service sorta thing. Seems to me you want to blame the people in need and force them into making up for their situation (some directly guilty, most not) by branding all of them to some type of forced payback via services. It's misguided.
    CONservative governMENt

    Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
  • gimmesometruth27
    gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 24,431
    your wonderful proposed solution does not take into account the working poor, the laid off, the disabled and handicapped, the single moms getting assistance to buy food for their kids, etc. the argument people are saying now is that the parent/parents being out of the house working and making enough to barely pay the rent and keep the lights on can not be a good parent or example for their children because they are gone too much,. ever see that part of fahrenheit 9/11? now are you proposing taking these same people out of the household for another 20-30 hours a week on top of what they are already working??? good luck with that. watch the crime rate and juvenile delenquency skyrocket then. then people will complain because cities are now taking cops off of the streets due to budget cuts, but that is another issue for another thread....

    sure some people scam the system, but most of the people i see in my office that are below the poverty line getting assistance are working poor or laid off, or disabled. this proposed solution does not take into account how they got poor to begin with. were they born into it? were they comfortable middle class and bankrupted by an unexpected medical expense that was denied coverage by insurance? were they made disabled and unable to work? or were they irresponsible with credit cards and financially ruined that way? were they caught up in a shitty ARM that reset and made them lose everything? every situation is different and you can not paint with a broad brush and mandate anything like this. your proposed solution only looks at the ends, and in no way takes into account the things that cause people to become dependent on the government. unless you do that, no amount of overzealous rule making or kicking people off of assistance is going to change anything. i dare you to go about mandating community service or cutting aid to these people. it will only increase problems. the money you save denying benefits had better be used to have more police on the streets, as crime will definitely increase.
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • Blockhead
    Blockhead Posts: 1,538
    FiveB247x wrote:
    Also, if the real intent is to fix communities, why not force actual guilty people in jail to do such services? Chain gang community service sorta thing. Seems to me you want to blame the people in need and force them into making up for their situation (some directly guilty, most not) by branding all of them to some type of forced payback via services. It's misguided.
    Umm... I don't know where you live but here in Cincinnati they do have criminals picking up trash through the city. I am not blaming people in need, but they should have to do something productive to society.
  • pandora
    pandora Posts: 21,855
    Community service is a feel good situation.
    It is a positive thing and should be looked at as an opportunity, not a punishment.

    Working together raises self esteem and brings new life experiences
    and the opportunity to make new friends, even future business contacts.

    It also helps youth to feel involved in their community
    and learn skills they may not have had the opportunity to learn.
    Perhaps finding a needed mentor.

    My kids and I have volunteered and done community service
    and took away very good lessons from it.
  • FiveB247x
    FiveB247x Posts: 2,330
    I am not that familiar with criminal work programs, but my point is with that, it's a "payback" service because of crimes they were found guilty of. People on assistance programs haven't committed any crime and don't owe society any more than a working joe schoe. Your whole life living in the US, you pay taxes for services, some of these services are part of welfare and benefits programs. Some you may collect upon, some you may not. The idea that simply because you're using some tax funds via a program which you are eligible for, does not mean owe something back. You can't pick and choose to designate which tax funds you wish to make ok to collect on and others which you do not and add in stipulations about services due back as a result, which is essentially what you're asking.
    HeidiJam wrote:
    Umm... I don't know where you live but here in Cincinnati they do have criminals picking up trash through the city. I am not blaming people in need, but they should have to do something productive to society.
    CONservative governMENt

    Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
  • he still stands
    he still stands Posts: 2,835
    when I was on unemployment, I was looking for a job AT LEAST 40 hours a week. That's why I only got paid for 3 weeks of unemployment... I found another job.

    If I had to spend 30 hours per week doing community service, it may have taken me months to find a new job... or I just would have given up and not collected unemployment and taken a job well below my skills and education.

    I should also point out, that I got paid a WHOPPING $600 for three weeks of unemployment. My fucking mortgage was 2x that.

    edit: oh ha... welfare... unemployment... whats the diff? Give me a break plz I've had the flu. :sick:
    Everything not forbidden is compulsory and eveything not compulsory is forbidden. You are free... free to do what the government says you can do.
  • haffajappa
    haffajappa British Columbia Posts: 5,955
    pandora wrote:
    Community service is a feel good situation.
    It is a positive thing and should be looked at as an opportunity, not a punishment.

    Working together raises self esteem and brings new life experiences
    and the opportunity to make new friends, even future business contacts.

    It also helps youth to feel involved in their community
    and learn skills they may not have had the opportunity to learn.
    Perhaps finding a needed mentor.

    My kids and I have volunteered and done community service
    and took away very good lessons from it.
    This is very true.
    The problem is those who are abusing the system often feel an unnecessary entitlement... As if everyone owes it to them to pay them while they sit and choose not to work. In that sense, I'm not sure if those that are just lazy would get much out of it...
    And to that extent I actually kind of understand what Heidijam is saying...

    Maybe not a universal rule but its a good idea I think, although hard to administer. As gimme and others have said, the welfare system includes many people who actually need it as well as those who abuse it. :?
    live pearl jam is best pearl jam
  • Godfather.
    Godfather. Posts: 12,504
    HeidiJam wrote:
    Like title says, should people receiving welfare benefits be required to do community service? Think about it, no one is spending 40+ hours a week looking for jobs/work. What about requiring them to do 20-30 hours of community service a week given out by the local city. It would be a good way to give an incentive to find work. It could also save some tax payer money. Maybe some of those poor innercity areas would not look so bad if all the people on welfare were required to clean the areas up, maintain the playgrounds. What do you think?

    I think it's a good Idea, some people are on welfare for generations and for the people that can work and depend on welfare as a their only source of income then that would be a great idea, unemployment is usually a temporary thing and if your not in a union you have to job hunt everyday just about.

    Godfather.
  • Blockhead
    Blockhead Posts: 1,538
    FiveB247x wrote:
    I am not that familiar with criminal work programs, but my point is with that, it's a "payback" service because of crimes they were found guilty of. People on assistance programs haven't committed any crime and don't owe society any more than a working joe schoe. Your whole life living in the US, you pay taxes for services, some of these services are part of welfare and benefits programs. Some you may collect upon, some you may not. The idea that simply because you're using some tax funds via a program which you are eligible for, does not mean owe something back. You can't pick and choose to designate which tax funds you wish to make ok to collect on and others which you do not and add in stipulations about services due back as a result, which is essentially what you're asking.
    THey sure as hell do OWE society as society is paying/making it able for them to live thier lives. Welfare puts food/housing/clothes to people who pay no taxes and continually destroy once nice neighborhoods. Look at the stats 20% are on welfare for over 5 years. That is a college career. People seem oblivious to the fact that nothing other than themselves(sadly maybe some disabiliites) is stoping them from reaching success. Colleges now lower the admission standard for minorities.
  • pandora
    pandora Posts: 21,855
    haffajappa wrote:
    pandora wrote:
    Community service is a feel good situation.
    It is a positive thing and should be looked at as an opportunity, not a punishment.

    Working together raises self esteem and brings new life experiences
    and the opportunity to make new friends, even future business contacts.

    It also helps youth to feel involved in their community
    and learn skills they may not have had the opportunity to learn.
    Perhaps finding a needed mentor.

    My kids and I have volunteered and done community service
    and took away very good lessons from it.
    This is very true.
    The problem is those who are abusing the system often feel an unnecessary entitlement... As if everyone owes it to them to pay them while they sit and choose not to work. In that sense, I'm not sure if those that are just lazy would get much out of it...
    And to that extent I actually kind of understand what Heidijam is saying...

    Maybe not a universal rule but its a good idea I think, although hard to administer. As gimme and others have said, the welfare system includes many people who actually need it as well as those who abuse it. :?

    Those who feel an entitlement or are lazy may not get anything out of it
    but the community will and in time most likely the welfare recipient won't be able to keep from taking away positives, it is a positive builder. They may just want to find employment or may find some in their journey.

    Those who have a genuine need may get a lot out of it because it is an opportunity for personal growth and understanding of others.

    I find it odd that it is looked on as a punishment by so many here...try it you might like it.
  • inmytree
    inmytree Posts: 4,741
    HeidiJam wrote:
    Like title says, should people receiving welfare benefits be required to do community service? Think about it, no one is spending 40+ hours a week looking for jobs/work. What about requiring them to do 20-30 hours of community service a week given out by the local city. It would be a good way to give an incentive to find work. It could also save some tax payer money. Maybe some of those poor innercity areas would not look so bad if all the people on welfare were required to clean the areas up, maintain the playgrounds. What do you think?

    if you included corporations who get public dollars via tax breaks and subsidies, then I'm all for it...

    it really sounds like you're wanting a public works program, which is very FDR of you...

    I wonder how those who are disabled, both physically and mentally, fit into your proposed public works program...
  • FiveB247x
    FiveB247x Posts: 2,330
    Should we have senior citizens who get medicare forced to do community service as well? Or perhaps if you use a road, school, bridge, tunnel or any other tax funded appropriation, should that all be forced as well? Just as you sit here and claim no one any of these programs should be entitled for long term use as it should be used to assist until normalized life commences, they don't owe "us" (rest of society) anything either. Entitlement is a two way street... they're not entitled to get things forever, and we're not entitled to expect things from them in return. You seem to have that part off base huh?
    HeidiJam wrote:
    THey sure as hell do OWE society as society is paying/making it able for them to live thier lives. Welfare puts food/housing/clothes to people who pay no taxes and continually destroy once nice neighborhoods. Look at the stats 20% are on welfare for over 5 years. That is a college career. People seem oblivious to the fact that nothing other than themselves(sadly maybe some disabiliites) is stoping them from reaching success. Colleges now lower the admission standard for minorities.
    CONservative governMENt

    Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
  • Blockhead
    Blockhead Posts: 1,538
    I think it would help those on welfare feel like they are contributing to society, give them something to do so they stay out of trouble, and with the experience they gain maybe they would be appealing to an employer. These are all positives... and yet many of you just want to keep perpetuating laziness and keep them at poverty level. Many of you see Community service as a punishment, yet I can only see good things come out of a progam like this, especially if they can start cleaning up the areas they live in.
  • inmytree
    inmytree Posts: 4,741
    HeidiJam wrote:
    I think it would help those on welfare feel like they are contributing to society, give them something to do so they stay out of trouble, and with the experience they gain maybe they would be appealing to an employer. These are all positives... and yet many of you just want to keep perpetuating laziness and keep them at poverty level. Many of you see Community service as a punishment, yet I can only see good things come out of a progam like this, especially if they can start cleaning up the areas they live in.

    how much would it cost to run and oversee this program...?
  • Blockhead
    Blockhead Posts: 1,538
    FiveB247x wrote:
    Should we have senior citizens who get medicare forced to do community service as well? Or perhaps if you use a road, school, bridge, tunnel or any other tax funded appropriation, should that all be forced as well? Just as you sit here and claim no one any of these programs should be entitled for long term use as it should be used to assist until normalized life commences, they don't owe "us" (rest of society) anything either. Entitlement is a two way street... they're not entitled to get things forever, and we're not entitled to expect things from them in return. You seem to have that part off base huh?
    HeidiJam wrote:
    THey sure as hell do OWE society as society is paying/making it able for them to live thier lives. Welfare puts food/housing/clothes to people who pay no taxes and continually destroy once nice neighborhoods. Look at the stats 20% are on welfare for over 5 years. That is a college career. People seem oblivious to the fact that nothing other than themselves(sadly maybe some disabiliites) is stoping them from reaching success. Colleges now lower the admission standard for minorities.
    You seem to have a hard time understanding that they are receiving free money and not putting any into the system. Senior citizens for a majority have paid into the medicare system their whole lives. People on welfare don't pay tax, yet they receive all the same benefits of people who do. COmmunity Service is not a punishment. I see it as a way of paying your taxes (giving back to society). We all pay for all the services you listed, and we also all vote on the thing listed, so i don't see what your point is.
  • gimmesometruth27
    gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 24,431
    HeidiJam wrote:
    FiveB247x wrote:
    I am not that familiar with criminal work programs, but my point is with that, it's a "payback" service because of crimes they were found guilty of. People on assistance programs haven't committed any crime and don't owe society any more than a working joe schoe. Your whole life living in the US, you pay taxes for services, some of these services are part of welfare and benefits programs. Some you may collect upon, some you may not. The idea that simply because you're using some tax funds via a program which you are eligible for, does not mean owe something back. You can't pick and choose to designate which tax funds you wish to make ok to collect on and others which you do not and add in stipulations about services due back as a result, which is essentially what you're asking.
    THey sure as hell do OWE society as society is paying/making it able for them to live thier lives. Welfare puts food/housing/clothes to people who pay no taxes and continually destroy once nice neighborhoods. Look at the stats 20% are on welfare for over 5 years. That is a college career. People seem oblivious to the fact that nothing other than themselves(sadly maybe some disabiliites) is stoping them from reaching success. Colleges now lower the admission standard for minorities.
    how do you propose these poor and "minorities" pay for a college education when the cost of college is skyrocketing and they barely have neough money to pay rent and buy food and keep the lights on??? think about what you are saying, because if it was that easy everyone would do it. in 5 years they come out, maybe can't find a career immediately, yet they have that massive loan payement to start paying on 6 months after graduation.

    by the way, hey republicans, it has been a few months since you got your mandate, where the fuck are the jobs??
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • Blockhead
    Blockhead Posts: 1,538
    inmytree wrote:
    HeidiJam wrote:
    I think it would help those on welfare feel like they are contributing to society, give them something to do so they stay out of trouble, and with the experience they gain maybe they would be appealing to an employer. These are all positives... and yet many of you just want to keep perpetuating laziness and keep them at poverty level. Many of you see Community service as a punishment, yet I can only see good things come out of a progam like this, especially if they can start cleaning up the areas they live in.

    how much would it cost to run and oversee this program...?
    Who do you think keeps track of current volunteers? Or do they all just show up and do whatever they want? It could be as simple as a badge/id/sign in sheet at the place of community service commitment
  • Blockhead
    Blockhead Posts: 1,538
    gimmesometruth27 wrote:
    how do you propose these poor and "minorities" pay for a college education when the cost of college is skyrocketing and they barely have neough money to pay rent and buy food and keep the lights on??? think about what you are saying, because if it was that easy everyone would do it. in 5 years they come out, maybe can't find a career immediately, yet they have that massive loan payement to start paying on 6 months after graduation.

    by the way, hey republicans, it has been a few months since you got your mandate, where the fuck are the jobs??
    Haven't you heard anybody can go to college, maybe try and major in something that has a good career and try to get a co-op. as for the loan issues Its a risk you have to take, and millions of people in the world are taking that risk. Are you of the opinion that if you are poor you should just try and stay poor because if you try and go to college on a loan, you might be in debt??? Thats promising...
    And to your last statment, what are you 16? Keep playing the party war buddy, thats a great way to keep american people seperated.

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