Should welfare recipiants have to do community service?

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Comments

  • pandora
    pandora Posts: 21,855
    HeidiJam wrote:
    So let me make sure I am getting this straight... Its NOT Ok to FORCE people who receive welfare benefits to contribute to society in a way of community service, but it IS ok to FORCE people to use their own hard earned money to pay into a system that only contributes to people who can't take care of their own basic needs of their life and their family (and continue to have kids with no punishment)??? Is that what I am hearing?
    A progam like this is would have only a positive outcome. It would be a great way to clean some of these innercity areas, (and we all know that when you take care of something and work hard at that, you tend to continually take care of that.) It would also be a great way to unite the community, help make those areas kid friendly. It would also be a great way to lean a trade, the program could eventually evolve into a partner program with local companies and my turn simple community service into a job.
    :thumbup: yes...it would teach children handouts for the able bodied are wrong... you must work for what you receive. In the process raising their sense of worth and chance to better themselves.
  • satansbed
    satansbed Posts: 2,139
    i think the best option would be to give people job training or some sort of work for welfare, and then people who refuse to get trained up or do some community service get less welfare, not no welfare though because people are still human beings and need to have some sort of means of living
  • FiveB247x
    FiveB247x Posts: 2,330
    Besides your own bias and "hunch", do you have any specific facts showing how many people milk the system or how long people are any types of benefits programs you mention? You've also now added the belief that people on benefits have more kids to whom they can't support... any facts and details about that? You keep throwing around these very broad notions and beliefs of yours, yet shown no data and proof of it. Do you expect everyone to just take your word for it? Show us with fact and data that rest of us are wrong.
    HeidiJam wrote:
    So let me make sure I am getting this straight... Its NOT Ok to FORCE people who receive welfare benefits to contribute to society in a way of community service, but it IS ok to FORCE people to use their own hard earned money to pay into a system that only contributes to people who can't take care of their own basic needs of their life and their family (and continue to have kids with no punishment)??? Is that what I am hearing?
    A progam like this is would have only a positive outcome. It would be a great way to clean some of these innercity areas, (and we all know that when you take care of something and work hard at that, you tend to continually take care of that.) It would also be a great way to unite the community, help make those areas kid friendly. It would also be a great way to lean a trade, the program could eventually evolve into a partner program with local companies and my turn simple community service into a job.
    CONservative governMENt

    Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
  • Digital Twilight
    Digital Twilight Posts: 5,642
    HeidiJam wrote:
    So let me make sure I am getting this straight... Its NOT Ok to FORCE people who receive welfare benefits to contribute to society in a way of community service, but it IS ok to FORCE people to use their own hard earned money to pay into a system that only contributes to people who can't take care of their own basic needs of their life and their family (and continue to have kids with no punishment)??? Is that what I am hearing?
    A progam like this is would have only a positive outcome. It would be a great way to clean some of these innercity areas, (and we all know that when you take care of something and work hard at that, you tend to continually take care of that.) It would also be a great way to unite the community, help make those areas kid friendly. It would also be a great way to lean a trade, the program could eventually evolve into a partner program with local companies and my turn simple community service into a job.


    The government over here is talking about something like this. Make people who have lost their jobs (Thanks to the government) to take up 'community service'. So in other words you fire the street cleaners to save money, stuff them on the dole and then make them do the work they should be getting a wage for for free. Fantastic. Think again.

    Don't forget that people who come onto benifits have worked and paid their taxes ect. I'm OK for me to pay these taxes and such for people to have some help when they need it just like I would appreciate it if it happened to me. Sure I pay taxes so some guy can have a life saving operation for free, I don't mind because I know should anything befall on to me i'm know i'm taken care of. Not everyone who requires a handout is cheating the system although I know some politicians would like to make you think otherwise. Do you actually think that people will get a sense of pride and accomplishment by doing community work that they are FORCED to do ? For those who lost their jobs to the recession, maybe, benifit cheats? Not in the slightest.

    30 % of people in the UK who recieve benifits are also in employment.

    I agree with the post above. Training is the way to go along with job creation, not forced labour.
  • inmytree
    inmytree Posts: 4,741
    Digital Twilight wrote:
    HeidiJam wrote:
    So let me make sure I am getting this straight... Its NOT Ok to FORCE people who receive welfare benefits to contribute to society in a way of community service, but it IS ok to FORCE people to use their own hard earned money to pay into a system that only contributes to people who can't take care of their own basic needs of their life and their family (and continue to have kids with no punishment)??? Is that what I am hearing?
    A progam like this is would have only a positive outcome. It would be a great way to clean some of these innercity areas, (and we all know that when you take care of something and work hard at that, you tend to continually take care of that.) It would also be a great way to unite the community, help make those areas kid friendly. It would also be a great way to lean a trade, the program could eventually evolve into a partner program with local companies and my turn simple community service into a job.


    The government over here is talking about something like this. Make people who have lost their jobs (Thanks to the government) to take up 'community service'. So in other words you fire the street cleaners to save money, stuff them on the dole and then make them do the work they should be getting a wage for for free. Fantastic. Think again.

    Don't forget that people who come onto benifits have worked and paid their taxes ect. I'm OK for me to pay these taxes and such for people to have some help when they need it just like I would appreciate it if it happened to me. Sure I pay taxes so some guy can have a life saving operation for free, I don't mind because I know should anything befall on to me i'm know i'm taken care of. Not everyone who requires a handout is cheating the system although I know some politicians would like to make you think otherwise. Do you actually think that people will get a sense of pride and accomplishment by doing community work that they are FORCED to do ? For those who lost their jobs to the recession, maybe, benifit cheats? Not in the slightest.

    30 % of people in the UK who recieve benifits are also in employment.

    I agree with the post above. Training is the way to go along with job creation, not forced labour.

    great post.... :thumbup:
  • Blockhead
    Blockhead Posts: 1,538
    Digital Twilight wrote:
    The government over here is talking about something like this. Make people who have lost their jobs (Thanks to the government) to take up 'community service'. So in other words you fire the street cleaners to save money, stuff them on the dole and then make them do the work they should be getting a wage for for free. Fantastic. Think again.

    Don't forget that people who come onto benifits have worked and paid their taxes ect. I'm OK for me to pay these taxes and such for people to have some help when they need it just like I would appreciate it if it happened to me. Sure I pay taxes so some guy can have a life saving operation for free, I don't mind because I know should anything befall on to me i'm know i'm taken care of. Not everyone who requires a handout is cheating the system although I know some politicians would like to make you think otherwise. Do you actually think that people will get a sense of pride and accomplishment by doing community work that they are FORCED to do ? For those who lost their jobs to the recession, maybe, benifit cheats? Not in the slightest.

    30 % of people in the UK who recieve benifits are also in employment.

    I agree with the post above. Training is the way to go along with job creation, not forced labour.
    You do understand that we are talking about welfare and not Unemployment right??? WHen you work part of your pay check goes into your unemployment fund...
  • nuffingman
    nuffingman Posts: 3,014
    Digital Twilight wrote:
    HeidiJam wrote:
    So let me make sure I am getting this straight... Its NOT Ok to FORCE people who receive welfare benefits to contribute to society in a way of community service, but it IS ok to FORCE people to use their own hard earned money to pay into a system that only contributes to people who can't take care of their own basic needs of their life and their family (and continue to have kids with no punishment)??? Is that what I am hearing?
    A progam like this is would have only a positive outcome. It would be a great way to clean some of these innercity areas, (and we all know that when you take care of something and work hard at that, you tend to continually take care of that.) It would also be a great way to unite the community, help make those areas kid friendly. It would also be a great way to lean a trade, the program could eventually evolve into a partner program with local companies and my turn simple community service into a job.


    The government over here is talking about something like this. Make people who have lost their jobs (Thanks to the government) to take up 'community service'. So in other words you fire the street cleaners to save money, stuff them on the dole and then make them do the work they should be getting a wage for for free. Fantastic. Think again.

    Don't forget that people who come onto benifits have worked and paid their taxes ect. I'm OK for me to pay these taxes and such for people to have some help when they need it just like I would appreciate it if it happened to me. Sure I pay taxes so some guy can have a life saving operation for free, I don't mind because I know should anything befall on to me i'm know i'm taken care of. Not everyone who requires a handout is cheating the system although I know some politicians would like to make you think otherwise. Do you actually think that people will get a sense of pride and accomplishment by doing community work that they are FORCED to do ? For those who lost their jobs to the recession, maybe, benifit cheats? Not in the slightest.

    30 % of people in the UK who recieve benifits are also in employment.

    I agree with the post above. Training is the way to go along with job creation, not forced labour.
    Very good post. The only part I disagree with is blaming the government for people losing their jobs, I think that has to go down to the recession helped enormously by our banking and financial sector friends.

    I'm all for people receiving benefits for unemployment, disability etc but it irritates the hell out of me when I see the stories of the career benefit scroungers. As for sending them out to do community service I agree with this if it's given a time frame. After X months they should be asked to do service. I don't think it's a good idea if someone that's worked hard all their life gets laid off and has their humiliation completed by picking up litter.

    I think it's a bit rich when our politicians talk of welfare scroungers when some of them are now doing time for expenses fraud.
  • Blockhead
    Blockhead Posts: 1,538
    FiveB247x wrote:
    Besides your own bias and "hunch", do you have any specific facts showing how many people milk the system or how long people are any types of benefits programs you mention? You've also now added the belief that people on benefits have more kids to whom they can't support... any facts and details about that? You keep throwing around these very broad notions and beliefs of yours, yet shown no data and proof of it. Do you expect everyone to just take your word for it? Show us with fact and data that rest of us are wrong.
    Besides your own bias and "hunch" do you have any specific facts showing how many people DON'T milk that system??? 26% of people are on welfare 2-5 years, 20% are over 5 years. I would say that living off welfare is becoming a lifestyle to raise of kids off of wouldn't you??? Welfare is intened as an aid, not an employer.
    Having just 1 kid is 1 kid to many if you can't even affored basic needs for yourself. If you are not supporting your own life, how can you justify bringing in another??? My belifes and notions come from real world dealings in inner city areas where I live. I don't care/expect you to take my word for it, its clear that you are only intreasted in keeping these people poor and helpless. Throwing money to people who have no money/education is not solving anything. I am still amazed that people think this is a punishment/bad idea.
  • chadwick
    chadwick up my ass Posts: 21,157
    edited February 2011
    this place... this topic makes me laugh. learn to spell the word "interested."

    i can't get into it much deeper here.
    (under their breath of course) kat & sea asked me to avoid the moving train.
    in doing so i will avoid fueled arguments with certain folks i'd rather punch in the face.



    that is all. carry on.
    Post edited by chadwick on
    for poetry through the ceiling. ISBN: 1 4241 8840 7

    "Hear me, my chiefs!
    I am tired; my heart is
    sick and sad. From where
    the sun stands I will fight
    no more forever."
    Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
  • Blockhead
    Blockhead Posts: 1,538
    chadwick wrote:
    this place... this topic make me laugh. learn to spell the word "interested."

    i can't get into it much deeper here.
    (under there breath of course) kat & sea asked me to avoid the moving train.
    in doing so i will avoid fueled arguments with certain folks i'd rather punch in the face.



    that is all. carry on.
    why even post??? Or are you the spelling MOD???
    You would like to punch people in the face you disagree with??? You sound very intelligent... :roll:
    Hopefully Ill get to meet you at PJ20 Festival
  • pjhawks
    pjhawks Posts: 12,956
    HeidiJam wrote:
    Besides your own bias and "hunch" do you have any specific facts showing how many people DON'T milk that system??? 26% of people are on welfare 2-5 years, 20% are over 5 years.

    that right there is the jist of this argument. no way someone should be allowed to be on welfare for over 5 years, that's just ridiciulous. i'd say 2 years tops. if you are on welfare for over 5 years how much are you contributing to society?
  • pandora
    pandora Posts: 21,855
    HeidiJam wrote:
    Digital Twilight wrote:
    The government over here is talking about something like this. Make people who have lost their jobs (Thanks to the government) to take up 'community service'. So in other words you fire the street cleaners to save money, stuff them on the dole and then make them do the work they should be getting a wage for for free. Fantastic. Think again.

    Don't forget that people who come onto benifits have worked and paid their taxes ect. I'm OK for me to pay these taxes and such for people to have some help when they need it just like I would appreciate it if it happened to me. Sure I pay taxes so some guy can have a life saving operation for free, I don't mind because I know should anything befall on to me i'm know i'm taken care of. Not everyone who requires a handout is cheating the system although I know some politicians would like to make you think otherwise. Do you actually think that people will get a sense of pride and accomplishment by doing community work that they are FORCED to do ? For those who lost their jobs to the recession, maybe, benifit cheats? Not in the slightest.

    30 % of people in the UK who recieve benifits are also in employment.

    I agree with the post above. Training is the way to go along with job creation, not forced labour.
    You do understand that we are talking about welfare and not Unemployment right??? WHen you work part of your pay check goes into your unemployment fund...
    And your employer must pay both federal FUTA tax and state SUTA tax ... based on the previous year of benefits paid out to their employees.
    Mine increased by at least 4x the amount of last year because we had to let go so many :(
  • chadwick
    chadwick up my ass Posts: 21,157
    pjhawks wrote:
    HeidiJam wrote:
    Besides your own bias and "hunch" do you have any specific facts showing how many people DON'T milk that system??? 26% of people are on welfare 2-5 years, 20% are over 5 years.

    that right there is the jist of this argument. no way someone should be allowed to be on welfare for over 5 years, that's just ridiciulous. i'd say 2 years tops. if you are on welfare for over 5 years how much are you contributing to society?
    (i thought i wasn't supposed to be posting here :mrgreen: )

    not everyone is a great contributor, wealthy, middle class or poor.
    i think the bigger thieves are the mega-wealthy and most politicians.
    a family barely getting by is not something that fuels anger in me, compassion and understanding, yes.

    community service... jail birds and dicks on probation or parole. we wouldn't need much community service in regards to trash removal if all the assholes in this country quit their fucking littering.
    people who litter should be beat with a pipe, made to do community service, lose their jobs, and receive welfare

    sure a small % scam for welfare benefits. again, it is a small % im sure.
    for poetry through the ceiling. ISBN: 1 4241 8840 7

    "Hear me, my chiefs!
    I am tired; my heart is
    sick and sad. From where
    the sun stands I will fight
    no more forever."
    Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
  • FiveB247x
    FiveB247x Posts: 2,330
    So let me get this straight... 74% of the people not doing anything wrong have to work some sort of community service because YOU are fed up with the 26%? And I'm just going by your figures here (who knows the validity of them). And you also are now in the business of telling people how many kids they can how based on income or some other secondary and arbitrary figures? Where do you get off with this stuff? Seriously. You don't seem to recognize the fact that your blaming the people (as a whole) compared to asking for reform which is necessary to fix the problems. Why punish people who are not guilty? Why not force the government to make changes and reform rather than punish 74% of innocent people? Seems very off base to say the least. If I came up with some other area in society in which 3/4ths of people were not guilty but should be forced to do things because of the bad 1/4th, I think we'd all say that's wrong. You seem to think it's ok for some odd reason?
    HeidiJam wrote:
    Besides your own bias and "hunch" do you have any specific facts showing how many people DON'T milk that system??? 26% of people are on welfare 2-5 years, 20% are over 5 years. I would say that living off welfare is becoming a lifestyle to raise of kids off of wouldn't you??? Welfare is intened as an aid, not an employer.
    Having just 1 kid is 1 kid to many if you can't even affored basic needs for yourself. If you are not supporting your own life, how can you justify bringing in another??? My belifes and notions come from real world dealings in inner city areas where I live. I don't care/expect you to take my word for it, its clear that you are only intreasted in keeping these people poor and helpless. Throwing money to people who have no money/education is not solving anything. I am still amazed that people think this is a punishment/bad idea.
    CONservative governMENt

    Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
  • pjhawks
    pjhawks Posts: 12,956
    chadwick wrote:
    pjhawks wrote:
    HeidiJam wrote:
    Besides your own bias and "hunch" do you have any specific facts showing how many people DON'T milk that system??? 26% of people are on welfare 2-5 years, 20% are over 5 years.

    that right there is the jist of this argument. no way someone should be allowed to be on welfare for over 5 years, that's just ridiciulous. i'd say 2 years tops. if you are on welfare for over 5 years how much are you contributing to society?
    (i thought i wasn't supposed to be posting here :mrgreen: )

    not everyone is a great contributor, wealthy, middle class or poor.
    i think the bigger thieves are the mega-wealthy and most politicians.
    a family barely getting by is not something that fuels anger in me, compassion and understanding, yes.

    community service... jail birds and dicks on probation or parole. we wouldn't need much community service in regards to trash removal if all the assholes in this country quit their fucking littering.
    people who litter should be beat with a pipe, made to do community service, lose their jobs, and receive welfare

    sure a small % scam for welfare benefits. again, it is a small % im sure.

    i have a lot of compassion and understanding for families stuggling to get by, but not for families struggling to get by for 5 years on the governments back. i live in a middle class neighborhood where most families have to have both parents working full time to 'get by' as you say. i have a hell of a lot more respect and compassion for them than i do for those living off someone's else dime or more to the point, my dime.
  • Blockhead
    Blockhead Posts: 1,538
    FiveB247x wrote:
    So let me get this straight... 74% of the people not doing anything wrong have to work some sort of community service because YOU are fed up with the 26%? And I'm just going by your figures here (who knows the validity of them). And you also are now in the business of telling people how many kids they can how based on income or some other secondary and arbitrary figures? Where do you get off with this stuff? Seriously. You don't seem to recognize the fact that your blaming the people (as a whole) compared to asking for reform which is necessary to fix the problems. Why punish people who are not guilty? Why not force the government to make changes and reform rather than punish 74% of innocent people? Seems very off base to say the least. If I came up with some other area in society in which 3/4ths of people were not guilty but should be forced to do things because of the bad 1/4th, I think we'd all say that's wrong. You seem to think it's ok for some odd reason?]
    Again, why do you see it as punishment? Community service does not revolve around picking up trash. We should be in the business of telling people how many kids they can have if they are being supported by everyone else................... There is no positive in a situation of a child being born to a family that can't take care of it. Do you tell your children how many pets they can have or let them get whatever they want. I am trying to wrap my head around the logic some of you people have here. You guys are all about making life fair and equal for everybody and yet you condone people having kids that they can not provide the most simple of needs (food/clothing/shelter) and children that will have no future. And again its not 74% innocent people, they could just as well be milking the system also, its just 20% are on it for over 5 years, and 26% from 2-5 years.
  • cincybearcat
    cincybearcat Posts: 16,880
    FiveB247x wrote:
    So let me get this straight... 74% of the people not doing anything wrong have to work some sort of community service because YOU are fed up with the 26%?


    Again, I ask, what is the problem with this? The community benefits from the $ they are providing others. The people performing the community service are at the very least learning how to work well with others and probably could involve even more training so that they have an opportunity to improve and succeed.

    It's not a punishment. Hell, you have to prove you are looking for a job to receive unemployment benefits....is that wrong too?
    hippiemom = goodness
  • Blockhead
    Blockhead Posts: 1,538
    pjhawks wrote:

    i have a lot of compassion and understanding for families stuggling to get by, but not for families struggling to get by for 5 years on the governments back. i live in a middle class neighborhood where most families have to have both parents working full time to 'get by' as you say. i have a hell of a lot more respect and compassion for them than i do for those living off someone's else dime or more to the point, my dime.
    I feel no compassion to most of these "struggling" familes in the inner city that go to my wifes school. These parents can't even give their kids baths, kids wear the same dirty clothes to school everyday, and are in 6th grade and can't even read... I know most of you will disagree but, its the parents job to provide all of these things (helping with education at home) not the gov.
  • Blockhead
    Blockhead Posts: 1,538
    I suggest everybody watch TLC on Thursdays nights at 9pm. THey have a show called Police Women of Cincinnati. (where I live) On last nights episode a mother on welfare and Gov. Housing was arrested for leaving her 15 and 12 year old alone for several day in her (gov.) house with no food in the fridge, no clothing, and 1 bed. The cops said the place smelled of feces. THey continually talk on the show how they see these situations all the time. AMT better tell them cops to quit making such bold generalizations....
  • pjhawks
    pjhawks Posts: 12,956
    HeidiJam wrote:
    pjhawks wrote:

    i have a lot of compassion and understanding for families stuggling to get by, but not for families struggling to get by for 5 years on the governments back. i live in a middle class neighborhood where most families have to have both parents working full time to 'get by' as you say. i have a hell of a lot more respect and compassion for them than i do for those living off someone's else dime or more to the point, my dime.
    I feel no compassion to most of these "struggling" familes in the inner city that go to my wifes school. These parents can't even give their kids baths, kids wear the same dirty clothes to school everyday, and are in 6th grade and can't even read... I know most of you will disagree but, its the parents job to provide all of these things (helping with education at home) not the gov.

    agree with you. i wonder if some of those who are so strident for welfare and against making people work for it have seen it much or live in an area close to places that have a high majority of families on welfare. in theory it sounds great that the government should take care of everyone but reality is that there are a lot of people taking advantage of it while the hard working people get screwed.

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