Jesus?

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  • Posts: 21,037
    yosi wrote:
    What I find interesting in this discussion is that it keeps coming back to the fact that there is very little historical evidence for Jesus. But there is historical evidence. The fact that it is scarce is irrelevant. To point to the scarcity of the contemporary (or nearly so) historical sources as significant is to make the assumption that people at the time would have known how significant this figure would prove to be, but they didn't.

    It's not a case of there being a scarcity of historical evidence. There is zero evidence.
  • Posts: 8,101
    Byrnzie wrote:
    It's not a case of there being a scarcity of historical evidence. There is zero evidence.

    Don't say that, there's the same amount of evidence as of Santa Claus, we have portraits, movies, and we know where he lives (or lived).
    "The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it"
    Neil deGrasse Tyson

    Why not (V) (°,,,,°) (V) ?
  • Posts: 21,037
    yosi wrote:
    No one but his tiny group of followers were paying attention at the time

    Is that why the Romans felt the need to crucify him?

    No one but David Koresh's tiny group of followers paid attention to him either, but that didn't stop him becoming headline news.
  • NYC Posts: 3,152
    1) You may not be aware of this but they didn't have headline news 2000 years ago.

    2) The Romans weren't all that warm and cuddly. They crucified people all the time. If the story recorded in the gospels about Jesus overturning the moneychangers table in the Temple is true (or something close to it) that would probably have been enough for the Romans to just go ahead and crucify him.
    you couldn't swing if you were hangin' from a palm tree in a hurricane

  • Posts: 977
    Matthew 12:31-32 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

    But you can think what you will.
    Bristow, VA (5/13/10)
  • Mar-A-Lago Posts: 22,172
    Matthew wrote that?
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  • Posts: 8,101
    edited November 2010
    Electric_Delta wrote:
    Matthew 12:31-32 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

    But you can think what you will.

    The christian god will forgive child molesters, rapist, incest, genocide, thieves, everything except a couple of "f you" to the holy ghost... you know his temper. he killed more people in the bible than the devil... :roll:

    http://dwindlinginunbelief.blogspot.com ... r-god.html
    Post edited by arq on
    "The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it"
    Neil deGrasse Tyson

    Why not (V) (°,,,,°) (V) ?
  • St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 24,045
    Electric_Delta wrote:
    Matthew 12:31-32 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

    But you can think what you will.
    that is assuming we all believe in a world to come.

    i do not like it when people threaten me with verses from a 2000 year old text. to me it takes away credibility because there is no way to prove that argument, and that it is based on faith alone, and not hard evidence. coming from a scientific background, faith does not hold much water in my opinion.

    i don't speak words against God or Jesus, i just think that people give them too much credit. there are too many terrible things in this world for me to believe that "Jesus loves you" stuff. i believe that Jesus probably existed, and looking at it in a realistic perspective there is no way word of his legend and his deeds spread so far across the empire so fast in the short time of his ministry in a time where there were no newspapers and no mail, and no radio, when travel took months at a time, etc. it would take years and years for word of his works to spread across all of that land. and he only in the end had 11 people that he recruited to spread that word. for him to draw the attention of pilate he would have had to been a rabble rouser such as a modern revolutionary like Castro, Che, etc. and that could not have happened in the few years of his apparent 33 years of his life. just my take.
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • Posts: 977
    gimmesometruth27 wrote:
    show previous quotes
    that is assuming we all believe in a world to come.

    i do not like it when people threaten me with verses from a 2000 year old text. to me it takes away credibility because there is no way to prove that argument, and that it is based on faith alone, and not hard evidence. coming from a scientific background, faith does not hold much water in my opinion.

    i don't speak words against God or Jesus, i just think that people give them too much credit. there are too many terrible things in this world for me to believe that "Jesus loves you" stuff. i believe that Jesus probably existed, and looking at it in a realistic perspective there is no way word of his legend and his deeds spread so far across the empire so fast in the short time of his ministry in a time where there were no newspapers and no mail, and no radio, when travel took months at a time, etc. it would take years and years for word of his works to spread across all of that land. and he only in the end had 11 people that he recruited to spread that word. for him to draw the attention of pilate he would have had to been a rabble rouser such as a modern revolutionary like Castro, Che, etc. and that could not have happened in the few years of his apparent 33 years of his life. just my take.

    It wasn't a threat. He gives you a choice to believe or not.
    Bristow, VA (5/13/10)
  • Posts: 977
    arq wrote:
    show previous quotes

    The christian god will forgive child molesters, rapist, incest, genocide, thieves, everything except a couple of "f you" to the holy ghost... you know his temper. he killed more people in the bible than the devil... :roll:

    http://dwindlinginunbelief.blogspot.com ... r-god.html

    I don't remember Jesus killing anyone. Can you provide me with a verse of what you mean?

    By the way, God judged those He saw fit to judge. The "devil" is responsible for more suffering and death on this planet than what can easily be imagined.

    This verse means to remain in constant disbelief. It doesn't necessarily mean an outright blasphemy, though constant disbelief will lend license to such actions. The Bible provides verses in the book of Mark which state an outright blasphemy is still forgiveable.
    Bristow, VA (5/13/10)
  • St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 24,045
    Electric_Delta wrote:
    show previous quotes

    It wasn't a threat. He gives you a choice to believe or not.
    how is that passage in that book not a threat?

    "but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come."
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • Posts: 29,003
    gimmesometruth27 wrote:
    how is that passage in that book not a threat?

    "but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come."


    from now on please address me as cate the unforgiven. 8-)
    hear my name
    take a good look
    this could be the day
    hold my hand
    lie beside me
    i just need to say
  • Posts: 8,101
    Electric_Delta wrote:
    I don't remember Jesus killing anyone. Can you provide me with a verse of what you mean?.

    Well if Jesus is the father and the holy ghost at the same time, then he killed a lot of people, and about suffering, well there's a little book in the bible called Job... that's one of the more clear examples of god being cruel just for the sake of it.

    And what about the devil? well the devil is as fictional as god so there's nothing to say about him except that he doesn't show up too much in the bible.
    "The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it"
    Neil deGrasse Tyson

    Why not (V) (°,,,,°) (V) ?
  • Posts: 21,037
    Electric_Delta wrote:
    Matthew 12:31-32 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

    But you can think what you will.

    Thanks, I will.
  • Posts: 21,037
    Electric_Delta wrote:
    By the way, God judged those He saw fit to judge. The "devil" is responsible for more suffering and death on this planet than what can easily be imagined.

    By the way, Donald Duck's Grandfather was called Humperdink.
  • Posts: 21,037
    Electric_Delta wrote:
    Matthew 12:31-32 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

    But you can think what you will.

    Electric Delta, what do you think about Dinosaurs?
  • Posts: 1,804
    Electric_Delta wrote:
    It wasn't a threat. He gives you a choice to believe or not.

    He is certainly giving us an offer we can't refuse, if the old testament is to be believed...

    Peace
    Dan
    "YOU [humans] NEED TO BELIEVE IN THINGS THAT AREN'T TRUE. HOW ELSE CAN THEY BECOME?" - Death

    "Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
  • Posts: 601
    My take on Christianity:

    In 2000 more years, maybe we'll all be practicing wizardry, worshipping our lord & savior "Harry Potter," & referencing the "holy books" of JK Rowling. This is from a "confirmed" Catholic (regretted mistake) who's never read any of these books & only saw a couple of the movies... once. But isn't fiction fun? ;)
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  • Posts: 8,101
    Given To DragonFly wrote:
    My take on Christianity:

    In 2000 more years, maybe we'll all be practicing wizardry, worshipping our lord & savior "Harry Potter," & referencing the "holy books" of JK Rowling. This is from a "confirmed" Catholic (regretted mistake) who's never read any of these books & only saw a couple of the movies... once. But isn't fiction fun? ;)

    hypnotoad.jpg

    Hypnotoad.jpg
    "The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it"
    Neil deGrasse Tyson

    Why not (V) (°,,,,°) (V) ?
  • Posts: 4,984
    its the zombie's birthday in a month or so, does that mean i have to go out and buy a bunch of crap?

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