The PJ sell-out debate ends here

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  • Hugh Freaking Dillon
    Hugh Freaking Dillon Posts: 14,010
    DewieCox wrote:
    breath123 wrote:
    Target did not finance Backspacer. The band made the CD and Target just put it out. PJ also made the deal that if Target really bothers you, you can buy it at an indie store or at the ten.....

    So, you're saying the release of BS was DEPENDANT on Target footin the bill for distribution.

    Target deal doesn't bother me, but it's not an independent release.

    it's an independent release. Independent, in the true sense, means independent of a record label. Do they have a label? No, then it's independent. did they get financed for the record by target? no, then it's independent. were target executives listening to the record before it could be sent out for mastering to make sure the product was what they wanted? no, then it's independent.

    who stocks and ships the product is not indicitive of being independent or not in the music industry. by that logic every single band who's ever sold a cd through a store, indie mom and pop or not, has not released a record independently.

    I signed a consignment deal with an independent record store to sell my band's cd......does that mean he's my record label now? :lol: no, I'm pretty sure it's an independent release. :lol:
    Gimli 1993
    Fargo 2003
    Winnipeg 2005
    Winnipeg 2011
    St. Paul 2014
  • mikepegg44
    mikepegg44 Posts: 3,353
    JeffSide wrote:
    Eddieredder wrote:

    Does anyone else out there put up every single concert up for download?

    Yes, Numerous bands...


    care to name any so i can go download them, examples PLEASE!!!
    that’s right! Can’t we all just get together and focus on our real enemies: monogamous gays and stem cells… - Ned Flanders
    It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
    - Joe Rogan
  • Hugh Freaking Dillon
    Hugh Freaking Dillon Posts: 14,010
    mikepegg44 wrote:
    JeffSide wrote:
    Eddieredder wrote:

    Does anyone else out there put up every single concert up for download?

    Yes, Numerous bands...


    care to name any so i can go download them, examples PLEASE!!!

    I know the Black Crowes do. I'm still waiting for my show to be put up. Hopefully soon..........
    Gimli 1993
    Fargo 2003
    Winnipeg 2005
    Winnipeg 2011
    St. Paul 2014
  • Mitch8415
    Mitch8415 Posts: 227
    Can someone (preferably those screaming "sellouts!") explain to me what the fundamental difference is between PJ playing a 3 song set at Target in 2010 which was the sole distributor of their 9th studio album, and PJ playing a 3 song set at Tower Records in 1991 who was (along with a lot of other stores) distributing their 1st studio album?
    ~ Chicago 5/16/06 ~ Chicago 8/23/09 ~ Chicago 8/24/09 ~
    ~ Kansas City 5/3/10 ~ Alpine Valley 9/3/11 ~ Alpine Valley 9/4/11 ~
    ~ Wrigley Field 7/19/13 ~ Oklahoma City 11/16/13 ~ St. Louis 10/3/14 ~
    ~ Wrigley Field 8/20/16 ~ Wrigley Field 8/18/18 ~ Wrigley Field 8/20/18 ~
    ~ Fenway Park 9/4/18 ~ Denver 9/22/22 ~ Ft. Worth 9/12/23 ~ Wrigley Field 8/29/24 ~
  • mikepegg44
    mikepegg44 Posts: 3,353
    ComeToTX wrote:
    Gern Blansten wrote:
    ComeToTX wrote:
    All bands need a big box retailer? 99.9% of bands don't have one. How many people are walking into Target to buy vinyl anyway? Yes, other bands release their concerts but they were one of the first.

    uh......what?

    Sorry, I know bands need places to sell their records but 99.9% of bands don't have their own exclusive retailer. I misspoke.

    I have no problem with the Target deal. I never did. This discussion was about them flying to MN to play a 3 song set for Target employees. People say this band loves their fans but obviously they love Target employees more becuase they aren't playing shows in most of the country.

    best part is there was a sign on the door at the target center that said " no pearl jam fans aloud, this show is to piss them all off."
    I mean, how dare they take some time off and do a few things here and there that are out of the ordinary. I mean did you have such a problem with them going to snl. they don't need to come to your backyard, they don't even need to come to your city...buy a fucking bootleg and turn it up loud and close your eyes. It is like you are at every show.

    maybe they should just constantly tour just so you might be able to see them at your convenience. Ever been on Tour? do you have any fucking idea how much it takes out of you to travel the country constantly . . . . and if you don't think they do shit for their fans that is above and beyond what most do you are an idiot. Bands of their size don't have to do shit anymore, they play because they love it, they play epic shows to give back to the fans, you do realize they could just come out for about 1.25 hours and then leave right? they play harder and longer than most and that is directly because of the fans and giving good value.
    that’s right! Can’t we all just get together and focus on our real enemies: monogamous gays and stem cells… - Ned Flanders
    It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
    - Joe Rogan
  • pompeii
    pompeii Posts: 83
    edited March 2010
    pearl jam is a band and a business..... and to be playing for 20 years and running a successful business for 20 years is a huge accomplishment........ and a very difficult task...... there are very few bands, if any.... that have accomplished this..... remember this.... and most importantly, enjoy them while they are still here......bands don't last forever
    Post edited by pompeii on
  • DewieCox
    DewieCox Posts: 11,432
    Johnny Sitar wrote:
    DewieCox wrote:
    breath123 wrote:
    Target did not finance Backspacer. The band made the CD and Target just put it out. PJ also made the deal that if Target really bothers you, you can buy it at an indie store or at the ten.....

    So, you're saying the release of BS was DEPENDANT on Target footin the bill for distribution.

    Target deal doesn't bother me, but it's not an independent release.

    it's an independent release. Independent, in the true sense, means independent of a record label. Do they have a label? No, then it's independent. did they get financed for the record by target? no, then it's independent. were target executives listening to the record before it could be sent out for mastering to make sure the product was what they wanted? no, then it's independent.

    who stocks and ships the product is not indicitive of being independent or not in the music industry. by that logic every single band who's ever sold a cd through a store, indie mom and pop or not, has not released a record independently.

    I signed a consignment deal with an independent record store to sell my band's cd......does that mean he's my record label now? :lol: no, I'm pretty sure it's an independent release. :lol:


    The release is totally dependant on Target fronting the money to print up copies of the album. Virtually the same thing a record company does.

    It's not nearly the same thing as you selling your albums on consignment, b/c you are the one paying to print up copies of the album.

    Yes, in the classic sense it's an indie release, but the rules have changed. To call it indie in this day in age is an insult to bands that have legitimately made it on their own.
  • ComeToTX
    ComeToTX Austin Posts: 8,067
    best part is there was a sign on the door at the target center that said " no pearl jam fans aloud, this show is to piss them all off."
    I mean, how dare they take some time off and do a few things here and there that are out of the ordinary. I mean did you have such a problem with them going to snl. they don't need to come to your backyard, they don't even need to come to your city...buy a fucking bootleg and turn it up loud and close your eyes. It is like you are at every show.

    maybe they should just constantly tour just so you might be able to see them at your convenience. Ever been on Tour? do you have any fucking idea how much it takes out of you to travel the country constantly . . . . and if you don't think they do shit for their fans that is above and beyond what most do you are an idiot. Bands of their size don't have to do shit anymore, they play because they love it, they play epic shows to give back to the fans, you do realize they could just come out for about 1.25 hours and then leave right? they play harder and longer than most and that is directly because of the fans and giving good value.

    I know you said I was an idiot but do you really think playing a song on SNL for millions of people is the same as playing for Target?

    No, I've never been on tour but I do travel 20 day per month all over the country for work. I don't stay in 5 star hotels or fly on private planes or ride on million dollar busses like PJ either.

    I don't think their shows are any longer than the other bands I go see anymore. And no I don't think they go above and beyond for their fans these days. Give me and example of this. Or you can disregard this because I'm and idiot.
    This show, another show, a show here and a show there.
  • Gern Blansten
    Gern Blansten Mar-A-Lago Posts: 22,250
    ComeToTX wrote:
    because I'm and idiot.
    :|
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  • ComeToTX
    ComeToTX Austin Posts: 8,067
    Gern Blansten wrote:
    ComeToTX wrote:
    because I'm and idiot.
    :|

    his words not mine.
    This show, another show, a show here and a show there.
  • zootown
    zootown Posts: 666
    Just an FYI... Eddie apparently commented on PJ's relationship with Target during the performance, just before Porch was played...you can find his comments in the "notes" section over at twofeetthick....
    I hold the pain, release me!
  • mikepegg44
    mikepegg44 Posts: 3,353
    High Fidelity 2000 wrote:
    ComeToTX wrote:

    I have no problem with the Target deal. I never did. This discussion was about them flying to MN to play a 3 song set for Target employees. People say this band loves their fans but obviously they love Target employees more becuase they aren't playing shows in most of the country.

    Now THAT is a great point. They ignore huge chunks of the country, but obviously go out of their way (it's not like the Target convention was in NYC on Sunday after they were on SNL) for "the man" (if that's what you wanna call it).

    People complain about $80 tickets, but maybe it's because they have to pay for tickets AND plane tickets/hotels because this band refuses to come anywhere near them for years at a time. Maybe.

    And will people please stop saying Backspacer is an independent release? REALLY? (to quote Weekend Update) Target is an indie record store? Really?!Was Chinese Democracy an independent release? Was The Eagles last album an independent release?


    ahhhhhhhhh, no you don't. if you CHOOSE to go see them pay the price, but I don't think you will die if you don't...last time I checked seeing pearl jam was not equal to death and taxes. HAVE TO!!!! that is ridiculous...Don't like that people don't come to your town, or even near it to play shows ... move. Fuck you people bitch. I have complained on this web site once and that was before I realized that 85% of the people in attendance at the first chicago show last year were ten clubbers. Jesus you people complain about everything. I bet if they played in your back yard you would call the cops and complain about the people who came to watch them
    yes it is independant. It doesn't have to be sold out of a trunk to be considered an independant release. They recorded and released it themselves with no record label doing all the behind the scenes work...but it seems like you deal in absolutes, so here is one, go fuck yourself
    and for the record, I live in Minneapolis, they come here once in a while, but keep in mind the last time they were here they OPENED for tom petty on two nights...it was fucking awful. Why they agreed to that is beyond me...wait that might be when they sold out...I take back everything

    and never reference chinese democracy again.
    that’s right! Can’t we all just get together and focus on our real enemies: monogamous gays and stem cells… - Ned Flanders
    It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
    - Joe Rogan
  • DewieCox
    DewieCox Posts: 11,432
    mikepegg44 wrote:
    High Fidelity 2000 wrote:
    ComeToTX wrote:

    I have no problem with the Target deal. I never did. This discussion was about them flying to MN to play a 3 song set for Target employees. People say this band loves their fans but obviously they love Target employees more becuase they aren't playing shows in most of the country.

    Now THAT is a great point. They ignore huge chunks of the country, but obviously go out of their way (it's not like the Target convention was in NYC on Sunday after they were on SNL) for "the man" (if that's what you wanna call it).

    People complain about $80 tickets, but maybe it's because they have to pay for tickets AND plane tickets/hotels because this band refuses to come anywhere near them for years at a time. Maybe.

    And will people please stop saying Backspacer is an independent release? REALLY? (to quote Weekend Update) Target is an indie record store? Really?!Was Chinese Democracy an independent release? Was The Eagles last album an independent release?


    ahhhhhhhhh, no you don't. if you CHOOSE to go see them pay the price, but I don't think you will die if you don't...last time I checked seeing pearl jam was not equal to death and taxes. HAVE TO!!!! that is ridiculous...Don't like that people don't come to your town, or even near it to play shows ... move. Fuck you people bitch. I have complained on this web site once and that was before I realized that 85% of the people in attendance at the first chicago show last year were ten clubbers. Jesus you people complain about everything. I bet if they played in your back yard you would call the cops and complain about the people who came to watch them
    yes it is independant. It doesn't have to be sold out of a trunk to be considered an independant release. They recorded and released it themselves with no record label doing all the behind the scenes work...but it seems like you deal in absolutes, so here is one, go fuck yourself
    and for the record, I live in Minneapolis, they come here once in a while, but keep in mind the last time they were here they OPENED for tom petty on two nights...it was fucking awful. Why they agreed to that is beyond me...wait that might be when they sold out...I take back everything

    and never reference chinese democracy again.

    I love that sentence... :lol::lol:
  • ComeToTX
    ComeToTX Austin Posts: 8,067
    mikepegg44 wrote:
    High Fidelity 2000 wrote:
    ComeToTX wrote:

    I have no problem with the Target deal. I never did. This discussion was about them flying to MN to play a 3 song set for Target employees. People say this band loves their fans but obviously they love Target employees more becuase they aren't playing shows in most of the country.

    Now THAT is a great point. They ignore huge chunks of the country, but obviously go out of their way (it's not like the Target convention was in NYC on Sunday after they were on SNL) for "the man" (if that's what you wanna call it).

    People complain about $80 tickets, but maybe it's because they have to pay for tickets AND plane tickets/hotels because this band refuses to come anywhere near them for years at a time. Maybe.

    And will people please stop saying Backspacer is an independent release? REALLY? (to quote Weekend Update) Target is an indie record store? Really?!Was Chinese Democracy an independent release? Was The Eagles last album an independent release?


    ahhhhhhhhh, no you don't. if you CHOOSE to go see them pay the price, but I don't think you will die if you don't...last time I checked seeing pearl jam was not equal to death and taxes. HAVE TO!!!! that is ridiculous...Don't like that people don't come to your town, or even near it to play shows ... move. Fuck you people bitch. I have complained on this web site once and that was before I realized that 85% of the people in attendance at the first chicago show last year were ten clubbers. Jesus you people complain about everything. I bet if they played in your back yard you would call the cops and complain about the people who came to watch them
    yes it is independant. It doesn't have to be sold out of a trunk to be considered an independant release. They recorded and released it themselves with no record label doing all the behind the scenes work...but it seems like you deal in absolutes, so here is one, go fuck yourself
    and for the record, I live in Minneapolis, they come here once in a while, but keep in mind the last time they were here they OPENED for tom petty on two nights...it was fucking awful. Why they agreed to that is beyond me...wait that might be when they sold out...I take back everything

    and never reference chinese democracy again.


    you are a very angry person that takes things in a message board way too seriously. pretty entertaining...
    This show, another show, a show here and a show there.
  • fox_mulderX
    fox_mulderX Posts: 1,134
    why is it so hard for people to understand what an independent release is?
  • ComeToTX
    ComeToTX Austin Posts: 8,067
    mike, what are you talking about? they played in MN the other day.
    This show, another show, a show here and a show there.
  • DewieCox
    DewieCox Posts: 11,432
    fox_mulderX wrote:
    why is it so hard for people to understand what an independent release is?

    It's not. An independent release is a release that is fully funded by the band. Promotion and production of the actual album is clearly under partial control.

    My question... Why is it so hard for people to realize that places like Target, Walmart and Best Buy do what record companies did before. The only thing that's changed is the name.
  • mikepegg44
    mikepegg44 Posts: 3,353
    care to name any so i can go download them, examples PLEASE!!![/quote]

    I know the Black Crowes do. I'm still waiting for my show to be put up. Hopefully soon..........[/quote]


    I watched the black crowes a long time ago in minneapolis for free at this silly festival downtown, it was a hell of a show, I didn't even know they still toured, will have to check out if they are coming here. I would like to see if the product is as good as I remember. One of my favorite albums ever was live at the greek with jimmy page. All the zepplin covers kicked major ass
    that’s right! Can’t we all just get together and focus on our real enemies: monogamous gays and stem cells… - Ned Flanders
    It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
    - Joe Rogan
  • mikepegg44
    mikepegg44 Posts: 3,353
    ComeToTX wrote:
    mike, what are you talking about? they played in MN the other day.


    god damnit I hope you are kidding
    that’s right! Can’t we all just get together and focus on our real enemies: monogamous gays and stem cells… - Ned Flanders
    It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
    - Joe Rogan
  • DewieCox
    DewieCox Posts: 11,432
    mikepegg44 wrote:
    care to name any so i can go download them, examples PLEASE!!!

    I know the Black Crowes do. I'm still waiting for my show to be put up. Hopefully soon..........[/quote]


    I watched the black crowes a long time ago in minneapolis for free at this silly festival downtown, it was a hell of a show, I didn't even know they still toured, will have to check out if they are coming here. I would like to see if the product is as good as I remember. One of my favorite albums ever was live at the greek with jimmy page. All the zepplin covers kicked major ass[/quote]

    They're gearing up for some 20th anniversary stuff as well. There is some sorta acoustic re-recording project and they tour extensively every year.

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