Pearl Jam and Phillies World Series conflict!!!

walkunafraid wrote:

Jearlpam0925 wrote:

How can you hate the Phillies more than the Yankees? That doesn't make any sense.

It's not even the players on the team that I hate so much as the fans of the team. They have got to be the most fair weather fans in all of baseball, and that's something I can't stand. Less than 10 years ago the Phillies were averaging less than 20,000 fans per game and nobody gave two shits about them in Philly. Why? Because they weren't winning. People only started caring and attending their games when they started putting up wins.

Fans like that -- who aren't willing to support their team in tough times, and who only come out when their team wins -- don't deserve to celebrate world championships. As much as I hate the Yankees management and players, at least their fans are always loyal to the team.

Yep, we stopped going because we didn't care, you got us.
Or maybe we stopped going because management didn't give a shit about spending money and fielding a quality team.
And I do believe the fans coming back to the ballpark had something to do with the new stadium being built, the organization then spent some money on FA (Jim Thome) so that they had a draw in the ballpark, and finally left their minor league system alone so that they could develop quality players (Utley, Howard, Rollins, Burrell, Hamels, Myers, Floyd)... but I could be wrong.

walkunafraid wrote:

Jearlpam0925 wrote:

How can you hate the Phillies more than the Yankees? That doesn't make any sense.

It's not even the players on the team that I hate so much as the fans of the team. They have got to be the most fair weather fans in all of baseball, and that's something I can't stand. Less than 10 years ago the Phillies were averaging less than 20,000 fans per game and nobody gave two shits about them in Philly. Why? Because they weren't winning. People only started caring and attending their games when they started putting up wins.

Fans like that -- who aren't willing to support their team in tough times, and who only come out when their team wins -- don't deserve to celebrate world championships. As much as I hate the Yankees management and players, at least their fans are always loyal to the team.

How uninformed. The team consistently would lose, ownership hired bad management, didn't spend money because they didn't consider themselves a top market(as you can see they clearly are) and had a shit hole of a stadium. Look at the Yankees in the 80's and early 90's! That when they had 22 titles under their belt. You have no idea what you're talking about nor any pulse on this city. The fans are there, but why in GOD'S NAME would you spend money like a fool to see a team that was just horrible day in and day out. Scott Rolen couldn't wait to leave, Curt Schilling couldn't wait to get out of here. Why? Because ownership, management, made no effort towards building a contender for preposterous reasons. You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

I don't care what anyone says, Philly is the most crazy city when it comes to their sports teams and no one can prove me otherwise. And it's fucking beautiful.

And you're from LA - talk about horrible fans. While we're on the grounds of assumptions - In by the 3rd, out by the 7th. Fucking weak. Nice "You suck FEEELIES!" chants, gringos. Watch your Doyers lose again.

Jearlpam0925 wrote:

walkunafraid wrote:

Jearlpam0925 wrote:

How can you hate the Phillies more than the Yankees? That doesn't make any sense.

It's not even the players on the team that I hate so much as the fans of the team. They have got to be the most fair weather fans in all of baseball, and that's something I can't stand. Less than 10 years ago the Phillies were averaging less than 20,000 fans per game and nobody gave two shits about them in Philly. Why? Because they weren't winning. People only started caring and attending their games when they started putting up wins.

Fans like that -- who aren't willing to support their team in tough times, and who only come out when their team wins -- don't deserve to celebrate world championships. As much as I hate the Yankees management and players, at least their fans are always loyal to the team.

How uninformed. The team consistently would lose, ownership hired bad management, didn't spend money because they didn't consider themselves a top market(as you can see they clearly are) and had a shit hole of a stadium. Look at the Yankees in the 80's and early 90's! That when they had 22 titles under their belt. You have no idea what you're talking about nor any pulse on this city. The fans are there, but why in GOD'S NAME would you spend money like a fool to see a team that was just horrible day in and day out. Scott Rolen couldn't wait to leave, Curt Schilling couldn't wait to get out of here. Why? Because ownership, management, made no effort towards building a contender for preposterous reasons. You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

I don't care what anyone says, Philly is the most crazy city when it comes to their sports teams and no one can prove me otherwise. And it's fucking beautiful.

And you're from LA - talk about horrible fans. While we're on the grounds of assumptions - In by the 3rd, out by the 7th. Fucking weak. Nice "You suck FEEELIES!" chants, gringos. Watch your Doyers lose again.

I'm not uninformed. I know plenty about the Phillies background and the issues they had with team management. I actually lived an hour away from Philadelphia for about a year and a half in the early part of the decade and was in/near the city long enough to see what was going on. I also have friends who still live in or near Philadelphia who will agree with what I’m about to say.

The truth is, during the period, people simply didn’t give a shit about baseball. They focused their attention to other sports (football and even basketball and hockey) and stopped caring about the Phillies because they were losers. There wasn’t much outcry against the team, or public discussion about them, like you would expect from passionate fans upset at team management. Instead, the fans simply chose to ignore them, to stop coming to games, and to stop supporting the players on the field who had little to do with the management situation.

That’s the very definition of a bandwagon fan. Look, almost every team has gone through a period in which their management has sucked. The Dodgers had to suffer through a period of six years when their general manager was the utterly incompetent Kevin Malone followed by the equally worthless Dan Evans. During the same period of time the Fox Corporation (bleh!) took over the team and didn’t give two shits about whether they won or lost or who was on the field. Fuck, I don’t even think Rupert Murdoch had even heard of the Dodgers before. During those years (1998-2004) the Dodgers made the playoffs only once (in 2004). Yet fans continued to come out and support the players and support the team. They never dipped below an average of 35,000 fans a game.

A true fan sticks with his/her team through thick and thin, and doesn’t just abandon the players and the team when things go bad.

I know that Philly fans can be very loud and passionate at games, and that’s great. But that’s not what makes a fan true vs. bandwagon. I don’t know how else you can dissect things that will not show that Phillies fans have only come out to support their team during prosperous times.

I love how you just put everyone into one big cookie jar.

I have been a Phillies fan since 1972 so don't call me a fair weather fan.

I hope to God these heated arguments don't spill over to the actual PJ shows. Some people just love the suck the fun out of everything.

mmmmm cookies!

PureandEasy wrote:

I love how you just put everyone into one big cookie jar.

I have been a Phillies fan since 1972 so don't call me a fair weather fan.

I hope to God these heated arguments don't spill over to the actual PJ shows. Some people just love the suck the fun out of everything.

Jearlpam0925 wrote:

To consistently go out and PAY for tickets to a stadium that was a dump for 81 games with a team that would consistently lose 90 games is not what a true fan does. It's what a dumb fan does. If that's a fan, then you should call yourself Helen Keller. So what you lived here for a year and half - YOU HAVE NO IDEA. I've been here my whole life and I know how it works here. We're not going to PAY for a product that is disgusting. YOU live in a city of nearly 10 million and you were drawing 35,000/game when Murdoch owned the team - and were given the financial support to at least to be good - and you think that's impressive? The Phils averaged from '97-'01 about 25,000 fans a year in a city of 1.5 million. By your comparison I think that ratio is pretty good. You lived here for a year and a half. Grrrrrreeeat. We're harder on our teams here, and we get that message across by not going. So some dumbasses in your city want to go out and watch a team consistently lose? That not being a fan, that's called blind faith. And that's for religious freaks, and idiots. Were the Phillies tearing it up in '04 when they came into a new ballpark? Not necessarily, but we saw in the offseason between '02 and '03 when plans were coming together that they were actually trying. And that stadium was consistently filled. Ya know why? Because management was changing, ownership was put into the hands of one man, and there was some revival of life from that concrete parking lot they played in for 26 years. I've been here for 27 years, and you're year and a half means shit. We appreciate effort here, and that's all we want. You know shit.

It’s ironic how in a statement in which you tried to prove the quality of Phillies fans you instead completely proved my point.

You were exactly right when you said fans didn’t come because the stadium sucked. See, that’s my point. The fans shouldn’t come out only because the team moves to a pretty new stadium – fuck the stadium, and fuck the management. Come out to support your players and let them know that you are behind them despite where they play or how much they struggle. Let the young guys on the team know that you are going to have their back and support them as they hone their skills. Let other teams and other players know that your city is a great place to play because your fans are loyal and always have the back of the team they love.

It is not blind faith to support your team when it hits a rough spot or doesn’t play in a pretty new stadium. Rather, it is the true test of a fan. Dodgers fans have passed that test time and time again. Philadelphia fans have failed miserably.

They only come out when they win? Tell me how an organization - the only team in professional sports mind you, and something I'm not proud of - that's lost 10,000 games and has been around IN THIS CITY for over 125 years only comes out when it wins? The successful team in this city left in the 50's. So come on, come at me with more paragraphs about how your argument makes no sense, Ms. Keller. Just like how you follow your team - with a dumb sense of blind faith.

I’ve already proven that the fans only come out when they win. The only reason the team stayed in Philadelphia when they were drawing 20,000 fans and less a game was because they play in a major U.S. city so the league would never allow them to just leave. If they had been in Tampa or San Diego or a lesser city during those years they would have been long gone.

walkunafraid wrote:

Jearlpam0925 wrote:

To consistently go out and PAY for tickets to a stadium that was a dump for 81 games with a team that would consistently lose 90 games is not what a true fan does. It's what a dumb fan does. If that's a fan, then you should call yourself Helen Keller. So what you lived here for a year and half - YOU HAVE NO IDEA. I've been here my whole life and I know how it works here. We're not going to PAY for a product that is disgusting. YOU live in a city of nearly 10 million and you were drawing 35,000/game when Murdoch owned the team - and were given the financial support to at least to be good - and you think that's impressive? The Phils averaged from '97-'01 about 25,000 fans a year in a city of 1.5 million. By your comparison I think that ratio is pretty good. You lived here for a year and a half. Grrrrrreeeat. We're harder on our teams here, and we get that message across by not going. So some dumbasses in your city want to go out and watch a team consistently lose? That not being a fan, that's called blind faith. And that's for religious freaks, and idiots. Were the Phillies tearing it up in '04 when they came into a new ballpark? Not necessarily, but we saw in the offseason between '02 and '03 when plans were coming together that they were actually trying. And that stadium was consistently filled. Ya know why? Because management was changing, ownership was put into the hands of one man, and there was some revival of life from that concrete parking lot they played in for 26 years. I've been here for 27 years, and you're year and a half means shit. We appreciate effort here, and that's all we want. You know shit.

It’s ironic how in a statement in which you tried to prove the quality of Phillies fans you instead completely proved my point.

You were exactly right when you said fans didn’t come because the stadium sucked. See, that’s my point. The fans shouldn’t come out only because the team moves to a pretty new stadium – fuck the stadium, and fuck the management. Come out to support your players and let them know that you are behind them despite where they play or how much they struggle. Let the young guys on the team know that you are going to have their back and support them as they hone their skills. Let other teams and other players know that your city is a great place to play because your fans are loyal and always have the back of the team they love.

It is not blind faith to support your team when it hits a rough spot or doesn’t play in a pretty new stadium. Rather, it is the true test of a fan. Dodgers fans have passed that test time and time again. Philadelphia fans have failed miserably.

They only come out when they win? Tell me how an organization - the only team in professional sports mind you, and something I'm not proud of - that's lost 10,000 games and has been around IN THIS CITY for over 125 years only comes out when it wins? The successful team in this city left in the 50's. So come on, come at me with more paragraphs about how your argument makes no sense, Ms. Keller. Just like how you follow your team - with a dumb sense of blind faith.

I’ve already proven that the fans only come out when they win. The only reason the team stayed in Philadelphia when they were drawing 20,000 fans and less a game was because they play in a major U.S. city so the league would never allow them to just leave. If they had been in Tampa or San Diego or a lesser city during those years they would have been long gone.

This is unbelievably ridiculous to read. So I go out and continuously watch a team lose and pay for it? No, you're right, keep going out and continously root for a team of horrible players because management and ownership made it that way? It's not all about the players. Ya see, that's what you don't understand, we care about management, and ownership. You have to. If they're not giving an effort then why should we? People who are bandwagons are cities like Tampa and Miami who AFTER going to and winning world series WENT RIGHT BACK TO AN AVERAGE OF 20,000 FANS. So dumb these remarks are. You think people in Pittsburgh(multiple titles), Cincinnati(Big Red Machine), and Baltimore(rooted in baseball) WANT to average 20,000 fans a year? NO! It's because they know the product you're getting. Your argument boils down to blind faith because those are other baseball rich cities that have been soiled by bad management.

Oh and the city wouldn't move the Phillies because it's a major US city? What a dumb fucking statement. What's the biggest sport in this country? Football. What MAJOR US CITY doesn't have a team? I REST MY CASE.

Guy's from LA and HE is going to tell me about bandwagon cities....rrrright.

Here's another stat for ya - in your city of nearly 10 million, you and that other Disneyland team from LA RANKED AT THE VERY BOTTOM IN TV RATINGS. And that's a fact. Choke on that. Go back to having Mary Hart, Laverne or Shirley, Pat Sajak, Larry King, and Mannywood getting all the face time. Cause ya know, that all people care about. Oh, and sell some more Manny dreadlocks to bump up attendance. Ridiculous.

http://bizofbaseball.com/index.php?opti ... Itemid=122

Reading the arguments, it does sound like there are alotta fair weather fans in Philly.

PureandEasy wrote:

DewieCox wrote:

Reading the arguments, it does sound like there are alotta fair weather fans in Philly.

why are you adding fuel to the fire

trust me, as a loooong time Phillies fans, we are up there with the best of them

just leave it at that

It doesn't really matter though does it? We are the city of assholes, ya know? :roll: That's why the slogan is fish and tourists smell after 3 days. And the more popular, "Welcome to Philadelphia. Now get the fuck out."