I love how you just put everyone into one big cookie jar.
I have been a Phillies fan since 1972 so don't call me a fair weather fan.
I hope to God these heated arguments don't spill over to the actual PJ shows. Some people just love the suck the fun out of everything.
No offense to you. I know there are always a number of fans who are not bandwagon and who will support the team no matter what. There are always exceptions and you can never clump everyone together into one big generalized statement, so I apologize if I implied that.
I just think that a lot of Phillies fans showed their true colors during the tough period the team went through, and I feel like I have shown the numbers to prove it.
Everything has chains...Absolutely nothing's changed. - PJ
“The only way to deal with an unfree world is to become so absolutely free that your very existence is an act of rebellion.” - Albert Camus
It's not even the players on the team that I hate so much as the fans of the team. They have got to be the most fair weather fans in all of baseball, and that's something I can't stand. Less than 10 years ago the Phillies were averaging less than 20,000 fans per game and nobody gave two shits about them in Philly. Why? Because they weren't winning. People only started caring and attending their games when they started putting up wins.
Fans like that -- who aren't willing to support their team in tough times, and who only come out when their team wins -- don't deserve to celebrate world championships. As much as I hate the Yankees management and players, at least their fans are always loyal to the team.
How uninformed. The team consistently would lose, ownership hired bad management, didn't spend money because they didn't consider themselves a top market(as you can see they clearly are) and had a shit hole of a stadium. Look at the Yankees in the 80's and early 90's! That when they had 22 titles under their belt. You have no idea what you're talking about nor any pulse on this city. The fans are there, but why in GOD'S NAME would you spend money like a fool to see a team that was just horrible day in and day out. Scott Rolen couldn't wait to leave, Curt Schilling couldn't wait to get out of here. Why? Because ownership, management, made no effort towards building a contender for preposterous reasons. You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.
I don't care what anyone says, Philly is the most crazy city when it comes to their sports teams and no one can prove me otherwise. And it's fucking beautiful.
And you're from LA - talk about horrible fans. While we're on the grounds of assumptions - In by the 3rd, out by the 7th. Fucking weak. Nice "You suck FEEELIES!" chants, gringos. Watch your Doyers lose again.
I'm not uninformed. I know plenty about the Phillies background and the issues they had with team management. I actually lived an hour away from Philadelphia for about a year and a half in the early part of the decade and was in/near the city long enough to see what was going on. I also have friends who still live in or near Philadelphia who will agree with what I’m about to say.
The truth is, during the period, people simply didn’t give a shit about baseball. They focused their attention to other sports (football and even basketball and hockey) and stopped caring about the Phillies because they were losers. There wasn’t much outcry against the team, or public discussion about them, like you would expect from passionate fans upset at team management. Instead, the fans simply chose to ignore them, to stop coming to games, and to stop supporting the players on the field who had little to do with the management situation.
That’s the very definition of a bandwagon fan. Look, almost every team has gone through a period in which their management has sucked. The Dodgers had to suffer through a period of six years when their general manager was the utterly incompetent Kevin Malone followed by the equally worthless Dan Evans. During the same period of time the Fox Corporation (bleh!) took over the team and didn’t give two shits about whether they won or lost or who was on the field. Fuck, I don’t even think Rupert Murdoch had even heard of the Dodgers before. During those years (1998-2004) the Dodgers made the playoffs only once (in 2004). Yet fans continued to come out and support the players and support the team. They never dipped below an average of 35,000 fans a game.
A true fan sticks with his/her team through thick and thin, and doesn’t just abandon the players and the team when things go bad.
I know that Philly fans can be very loud and passionate at games, and that’s great. But that’s not what makes a fan true vs. bandwagon. I don’t know how else you can dissect things that will not show that Phillies fans have only come out to support their team during prosperous times.
To consistently go out and PAY for tickets to a stadium that was a dump for 81 games with a team that would consistently lose 90 games is not what a true fan does. It's what a dumb fan does. If that's a fan, then you should call yourself Helen Keller. So what you lived here for a year and half - YOU HAVE NO IDEA. I've been here my whole life and I know how it works here. We're not going to PAY for a product that is disgusting. YOU live in a city of nearly 10 million and you were drawing 35,000/game when Murdoch owned the team - and were given the financial support to at least to be good - and you think that's impressive? The Phils averaged from '97-'01 about 25,000 fans a year in a city of 1.5 million. By your comparison I think that ratio is pretty good. You lived here for a year and a half. Grrrrrreeeat. We're harder on our teams here, and we get that message across by not going. So some dumbasses in your city want to go out and watch a team consistently lose? That not being a fan, that's called blind faith. And that's for religious freaks, and idiots. Were the Phillies tearing it up in '04 when they came into a new ballpark? Not necessarily, but we saw in the offseason between '02 and '03 when plans were coming together that they were actually trying. And that stadium was consistently filled. Ya know why? Because management was changing, ownership was put into the hands of one man, and there was some revival of life from that concrete parking lot they played in for 26 years. I've been here for 27 years, and you're year and a half means shit. We appreciate effort here, and that's all we want. You know shit.
They only come out when they win? Tell me how an organization - the only team in professional sports mind you, and something I'm not proud of - that's lost 10,000 games and has been around IN THIS CITY for over 125 years only comes out when it wins? The successful team in this city left in the 50's. So come on, come at me with more paragraphs about how your argument makes no sense, Ms. Keller. Just like how you follow your team - with a dumb sense of blind faith.
To consistently go out and PAY for tickets to a stadium that was a dump for 81 games with a team that would consistently lose 90 games is not what a true fan does. It's what a dumb fan does. If that's a fan, then you should call yourself Helen Keller. So what you lived here for a year and half - YOU HAVE NO IDEA. I've been here my whole life and I know how it works here. We're not going to PAY for a product that is disgusting. YOU live in a city of nearly 10 million and you were drawing 35,000/game when Murdoch owned the team - and were given the financial support to at least to be good - and you think that's impressive? The Phils averaged from '97-'01 about 25,000 fans a year in a city of 1.5 million. By your comparison I think that ratio is pretty good. You lived here for a year and a half. Grrrrrreeeat. We're harder on our teams here, and we get that message across by not going. So some dumbasses in your city want to go out and watch a team consistently lose? That not being a fan, that's called blind faith. And that's for religious freaks, and idiots. Were the Phillies tearing it up in '04 when they came into a new ballpark? Not necessarily, but we saw in the offseason between '02 and '03 when plans were coming together that they were actually trying. And that stadium was consistently filled. Ya know why? Because management was changing, ownership was put into the hands of one man, and there was some revival of life from that concrete parking lot they played in for 26 years. I've been here for 27 years, and you're year and a half means shit. We appreciate effort here, and that's all we want. You know shit.
It’s ironic how in a statement in which you tried to prove the quality of Phillies fans you instead completely proved my point.
You were exactly right when you said fans didn’t come because the stadium sucked. See, that’s my point. The fans shouldn’t come out only because the team moves to a pretty new stadium – fuck the stadium, and fuck the management. Come out to support your players and let them know that you are behind them despite where they play or how much they struggle. Let the young guys on the team know that you are going to have their back and support them as they hone their skills. Let other teams and other players know that your city is a great place to play because your fans are loyal and always have the back of the team they love.
It is not blind faith to support your team when it hits a rough spot or doesn’t play in a pretty new stadium. Rather, it is the true test of a fan. Dodgers fans have passed that test time and time again. Philadelphia fans have failed miserably.
They only come out when they win? Tell me how an organization - the only team in professional sports mind you, and something I'm not proud of - that's lost 10,000 games and has been around IN THIS CITY for over 125 years only comes out when it wins? The successful team in this city left in the 50's. So come on, come at me with more paragraphs about how your argument makes no sense, Ms. Keller. Just like how you follow your team - with a dumb sense of blind faith.
I’ve already proven that the fans only come out when they win. The only reason the team stayed in Philadelphia when they were drawing 20,000 fans and less a game was because they play in a major U.S. city so the league would never allow them to just leave. If they had been in Tampa or San Diego or a lesser city during those years they would have been long gone.
Everything has chains...Absolutely nothing's changed. - PJ
“The only way to deal with an unfree world is to become so absolutely free that your very existence is an act of rebellion.” - Albert Camus
To consistently go out and PAY for tickets to a stadium that was a dump for 81 games with a team that would consistently lose 90 games is not what a true fan does. It's what a dumb fan does. If that's a fan, then you should call yourself Helen Keller. So what you lived here for a year and half - YOU HAVE NO IDEA. I've been here my whole life and I know how it works here. We're not going to PAY for a product that is disgusting. YOU live in a city of nearly 10 million and you were drawing 35,000/game when Murdoch owned the team - and were given the financial support to at least to be good - and you think that's impressive? The Phils averaged from '97-'01 about 25,000 fans a year in a city of 1.5 million. By your comparison I think that ratio is pretty good. You lived here for a year and a half. Grrrrrreeeat. We're harder on our teams here, and we get that message across by not going. So some dumbasses in your city want to go out and watch a team consistently lose? That not being a fan, that's called blind faith. And that's for religious freaks, and idiots. Were the Phillies tearing it up in '04 when they came into a new ballpark? Not necessarily, but we saw in the offseason between '02 and '03 when plans were coming together that they were actually trying. And that stadium was consistently filled. Ya know why? Because management was changing, ownership was put into the hands of one man, and there was some revival of life from that concrete parking lot they played in for 26 years. I've been here for 27 years, and you're year and a half means shit. We appreciate effort here, and that's all we want. You know shit.
It’s ironic how in a statement in which you tried to prove the quality of Phillies fans you instead completely proved my point.
You were exactly right when you said fans didn’t come because the stadium sucked. See, that’s my point. The fans shouldn’t come out only because the team moves to a pretty new stadium – fuck the stadium, and fuck the management. Come out to support your players and let them know that you are behind them despite where they play or how much they struggle. Let the young guys on the team know that you are going to have their back and support them as they hone their skills. Let other teams and other players know that your city is a great place to play because your fans are loyal and always have the back of the team they love.
It is not blind faith to support your team when it hits a rough spot or doesn’t play in a pretty new stadium. Rather, it is the true test of a fan. Dodgers fans have passed that test time and time again. Philadelphia fans have failed miserably.
They only come out when they win? Tell me how an organization - the only team in professional sports mind you, and something I'm not proud of - that's lost 10,000 games and has been around IN THIS CITY for over 125 years only comes out when it wins? The successful team in this city left in the 50's. So come on, come at me with more paragraphs about how your argument makes no sense, Ms. Keller. Just like how you follow your team - with a dumb sense of blind faith.
I’ve already proven that the fans only come out when they win. The only reason the team stayed in Philadelphia when they were drawing 20,000 fans and less a game was because they play in a major U.S. city so the league would never allow them to just leave. If they had been in Tampa or San Diego or a lesser city during those years they would have been long gone.
This is unbelievably ridiculous to read. So I go out and continuously watch a team lose and pay for it? No, you're right, keep going out and continously root for a team of horrible players because management and ownership made it that way? It's not all about the players. Ya see, that's what you don't understand, we care about management, and ownership. You have to. If they're not giving an effort then why should we? People who are bandwagons are cities like Tampa and Miami who AFTER going to and winning world series WENT RIGHT BACK TO AN AVERAGE OF 20,000 FANS. So dumb these remarks are. You think people in Pittsburgh(multiple titles), Cincinnati(Big Red Machine), and Baltimore(rooted in baseball) WANT to average 20,000 fans a year? NO! It's because they know the product you're getting. Your argument boils down to blind faith because those are other baseball rich cities that have been soiled by bad management.
Oh and the city wouldn't move the Phillies because it's a major US city? What a dumb fucking statement. What's the biggest sport in this country? Football. What MAJOR US CITY doesn't have a team? I REST MY CASE.
Guy's from LA and HE is going to tell me about bandwagon cities....rrrright.
Here's another stat for ya - in your city of nearly 10 million, you and that other Disneyland team from LA RANKED AT THE VERY BOTTOM IN TV RATINGS. And that's a fact. Choke on that. Go back to having Mary Hart, Laverne or Shirley, Pat Sajak, Larry King, and Mannywood getting all the face time. Cause ya know, that all people care about. Oh, and sell some more Manny dreadlocks to bump up attendance. Ridiculous.
What's actually surprising to me is not the low attendance from the past, hell even the Yankees in the 1960s didn't draw as well as they did now and those teams had Mantle, Maris etc, but that now sports leagues are setting attendance records considering how much tickets have risen in price over the years.
Reading 2004
Albany 2006 Camden 2006 E. Rutherford 2, 2006 Inglewood 2006,
Chicago 2007
Camden 2008 MSG 2008 MSG 2008 Hartford 2008.
Seattle 2009 Seattle 2009 Philadelphia 2009,Philadelphia 2009 Philadelphia 2009
Hartford 2010 MSG 2010 MSG 2010
Toronto 2011,Toronto 2011
Wrigley Field 2013 Brooklyn 2013 Brooklyn 2013 Philadelphia 2, 2013
Philadelphia 1, 2016 Philadelphia 2 2016 New York 2016 New York 2016 Fenway 1, 2016 Fenway 2, 2018 MSG 2022 St. Paul, 1, St. Paul 2 2023 MSG 2024, MSG 2024 Philadelphia 2024
"I play good, hard-nosed basketball.
Things happen in the game. Nothing you
can do. I don't go and say,
"I'm gonna beat this guy up."
Reading the arguments, it does sound like there are alotta fair weather fans in Philly.
why are you adding fuel to the fire
trust me, as a loooong time Phillies fans, we are up there with the best of them
just leave it at that
It doesn't really matter though does it? We are the city of assholes, ya know? :roll: That's why the slogan is fish and tourists smell after 3 days. And the more popular, "Welcome to Philadelphia. Now get the fuck out."
Lakers Person - you're an idiot. You have no idea what a horrible stadium the Vet was. It was fun to watch football there, but there's never been a worse place to watch baseball. It's amazing the Phillies even drew 25,000 there with those lousy teams. You guys have had Dodger Stadium forever, with a beautiful setting, great sitelines, consistently great weather, and yes, for years a much better baseball team. (Hey, LA has to have one nice thing going for it.) And nobody wants to hear about your year and a half cameo somewhere near Philly.
Also, sour grapes that your crappy team can't play with the Phillies.
One more thing. The NBA is a joke and is rigged to have the Lakers in the finals all the time. They've got Jerry West as GM of Memphis trading Pau Gasol to the Lakers for nothing. They end up with every other superstar, despite not drafting any of them. Give me a break. By the way, if you want to blast any Philly fans, you can go after Sixers fans. They even have trouble selling out playoff games, when they make it. 2000-01 Sixers was the biggest bandwagon jumping city ever.
Spectrum 10/27/09; New Orleans JazzFest 5/1/10; Made in America 9/2/12; WF Center 10/21/13; WF Center 10/22/13; Baltimore 10/27/13; WF Center 4/28/16; WF Center 4/29/16; Fenway Park 8/7/16; Fenway Park 9/2/18; Asbury Park 9/18/21; Camden 9/14/22; Las Vegas 5/16/24; Las Vegas 5/18/24; WF Center 9/7/24; WF Center 9/9/24; Baltimore Arena 9/12/24
Tres Mtns - TLA 3/23/11; EV - Tower Theatre 6/25/11; Temple of the Dog - Tower Theatre 11/5/16
I don't have tix to any of the WS games, but I have tix to Wed and Sat PJ shows. I'm a huge Phils fan and don't want to miss a second of the WS should they make it.
Then again, I am a huge PJ fan and last concerts at the Spectrum are bound to be epic and historic.
I think I'm still going to go to both concerts. They're games 1 and 3, so not elimination games. If they were games 5 and 7, that might be a different story. I guess I'll just DVR the games, although there is no possible way to walk out of South Philly either night and not know the result.
I was thinking this about the Halloween show (game 3)...I really think they could start the concert earlier. You could bump up the time to 6:00pm, have PJ take the stage by 7:30 and be done by 10:30 (counting on an epic 3 hour show to close the Spectrum). The way these baseball games have been going, they're ending 11:30 at the earliest, so all 19,000 can just walk over to Chickie's & Pete's or McFadden's and watch the game! Seriously though, if they started earlier it could give people a chance to catch the end of the game.
i agree with t bone here. gotta start the show earlier on saturday....
This is unbelievably ridiculous to read. So I go out and continuously watch a team lose and pay for it? No, you're right, keep going out and continously root for a team of horrible players because management and ownership made it that way? It's not all about the players. Ya see, that's what you don't understand, we care about management, and ownership. You have to. If they're not giving an effort then why should we? People who are bandwagons are cities like Tampa and Miami who AFTER going to and winning world series WENT RIGHT BACK TO AN AVERAGE OF 20,000 FANS. So dumb these remarks are. You think people in Pittsburgh(multiple titles), Cincinnati(Big Red Machine), and Baltimore(rooted in baseball) WANT to average 20,000 fans a year? NO! It's because they know the product you're getting. Your argument boils down to blind faith because those are other baseball rich cities that have been soiled by bad management.
Again, it's ironic that in trying to defend your argument you are just further proving my point. Your statement whittles down to this: when my team sucks, I'm not going to go see their games. When they're good, I am. Isn't that the very definition of jumping on the bandwagon?
I could maybe see your point about management if there was some form of outright protest fans were trying to put together by not going to games, but that didn't happen at all. Instead, fans simply stopped showing up and stopped talking about the team.
I guess it's just a difference of opinion here. You think it's okay for fans to stop supporting their team when the team is no good, and I think that's a sign of a bad fan. There's not really much else that can be said except that we simply see things a different way.
Oh and the city wouldn't move the Phillies because it's a major US city? What a dumb fucking statement. What's the biggest sport in this country? Football. What MAJOR US CITY doesn't have a team? I REST MY CASE.
I don’t really see your point. The NFL and MLB are two very different entities whose powers that be run their organizations very differently. I stated that the league wouldn’t allow the Phillies to leave because they play in a major city…I didn’t say anything at all about the NFL or any other league. You can’t compare apples to oranges, dude.
Guy's from LA and HE is going to tell me about bandwagon cities....rrrright.
Here's another stat for ya - in your city of nearly 10 million, you and that other Disneyland team from LA RANKED AT THE VERY BOTTOM IN TV RATINGS. And that's a fact. Choke on that. Go back to having Mary Hart, Laverne or Shirley, Pat Sajak, Larry King, and Mannywood getting all the face time. Cause ya know, that all people care about. Oh, and sell some more Manny dreadlocks to bump up attendance. Ridiculous.
Think about this logically. The television rankings include both home and away games. Those on the East Coast have a huge advantage because their games will always start at 7:00 or 10:00 local time (depending on what coast they are on). So, their broadcasts are televised at prime hours when people are home to turn on the tube.
By contrast, when West Coast teams hit the East Coast their games are going to start at 4:00. 4:00! People haven’t even gotten off work by then, and with L.A. traffic most people who work until 5:00 won’t even get home until at least 6:00, when the game is pretty much over. You can’t toss out a stupid stat like that without rationally thinking about the reasons behind such stats.
Look, this can’t go on forever, so I’ll leave it at this: IN MY OPINION Phillies fans, for all they want to puff out their chests right now, have shown themselves over the years to be very much bandwagon fans. I have supported that point with statistics to explain why I feel that way.
Obviously, this is a Philly-friendly thread, so I don’t expect much support in here. But I think a rational, unbiased person would look at the numbers and agree that they heavily suggest that my point is valid.
Finally, congrats on making another World Series. I will be rooting against you guys, but I readily acknowledge that you spanked my Dodgers for the second year in a row so I respect the quality of your team for that. I’ve tried to avoid name-calling here at all costs because my opinions are simply what I feel to be true, not a personal attack on anyone. Someone asked me how I can hate the Phillies more than the Yankees, and I think I’ve given my answer.
Everything has chains...Absolutely nothing's changed. - PJ
“The only way to deal with an unfree world is to become so absolutely free that your very existence is an act of rebellion.” - Albert Camus
i look at it this way, and i'm sure it's been said (i didn't bother to read any of this) You can go to a PJ concert any time...and a WS game is a once in a life time opportunity. You can buy the bootleg of the concert, but it's hard to find a repeat of the game unless you tivo/dvr it...but once you already know the outcome of a game, it totally ruins watching the game...PJ concerts and boots do in fact have a re-listen value...so a boot should be plenty satisfying...and if PJ pleases the board's request and make a DVD of the last night at the spectrum, it will be even better...so in conclusion, i say skip the concert and go to the game...you'll be much happier...but then again game 3 isn't a series ending game, so maybe you don't have to watch it and just hear the outcome, but then again, a WS game is a once in a lifetime opportunity
Lakers Person - you're an idiot. You have no idea what a horrible stadium the Vet was. It was fun to watch football there, but there's never been a worse place to watch baseball. It's amazing the Phillies even drew 25,000 there with those lousy teams. You guys have had Dodger Stadium forever, with a beautiful setting, great sitelines, consistently great weather, and yes, for years a much better baseball team. (Hey, LA has to have one nice thing going for it.) And nobody wants to hear about your year and a half cameo somewhere near Philly.
Again, why are people so hung up on stadiums? The Dodgers could go play in pile of dog shit and I guarantee you Dodgers fans would still go see them in droves. The quality of a stadium should have no bearing whatsoever on how much you love and support your team. For all the shit Dodgers fans get, I just have to shake my head in shame at the number of people on here who seem to go to a game for the pretty stadium as opposed to a love for the team.
Also, sour grapes that your crappy team can't play with the Phillies.
The Phillies kicked the Dodgers' ass two years in a row. I acknowledge that and am not bitter in any sense about it. In no part of this thread have I said a single word about disliking the Phillies because they beat my team or because I have any problem with any of the players on the team. I've made it clear that my dislike stems from the fans, so what are you even basing the above on?
One more thing. The NBA is a joke and is rigged to have the Lakers in the finals all the time. They've got Jerry West as GM of Memphis trading Pau Gasol to the Lakers for nothing. They end up with every other superstar, despite not drafting any of them. Give me a break. By the way, if you want to blast any Philly fans, you can go after Sixers fans. They even have trouble selling out playoff games, when they make it. 2000-01 Sixers was the biggest bandwagon jumping city ever.
There's nothing more pathetic than a fan shouting conspiracy theories when they get jealous of another's team success. It was a conspiracy that the Hornets decided to trade the 13th pick in the draft (Kobe Bryant) for one of the most consistent and all-around centers in the game at the time? It was a conspiracy that Shaquille O’Neal decided to join us as a free agent? It was a conspiracy that the greatest coach in the game decided to accept a contract to coach our team? It was a conspiracy that our starting point guard and starting center were both drafted by our team? Get over it, dude. You have no clue what you’re even talking about.
And I think you’ve proven a massive point with your comment about 76ers. You know, those fans you speak of live in the very same city as Phillies fans and I would be willing to bet that a lot of Phillies fans are Sixers fans as well…
Everything has chains...Absolutely nothing's changed. - PJ
“The only way to deal with an unfree world is to become so absolutely free that your very existence is an act of rebellion.” - Albert Camus
what a ridiculous argument. some guy lives over an hour away from the city for a year or so 10 years ago and thinks he knows everything. he's obviously just a bitter little dodger fan having a hard time coming to grips with the fact that his team just got steamrolled for the 2nd year in a row by the defending world champions.
seriously dude, the pompous attitude just reaks of jealous sour grapes. no need to rain on our parade because your team stunk it up in october again.
the fact of the matter is there was a 6 year stretch after the strike and the glow of the 93 team wore off that attendence levels shrank. philly is a firecely loyal union town and we quite honestly were not happy with what happened in the game. you know, cancelling a world series because one group of millionares cant come to terms with another group of millionares doesnt play out too well in a blue collar town like this. a town like la, not so much. combine that with the fact that management continuosly kep telling us that they could not spend money because of their inferior stadium and that philadelphia was a "small market city" they were essentially telling us that we could not compete with bigger market teams. soooo, the payroll shrunk and the town rebelled the only way us fans can, with our wallets. this is not jumping off the bandwagon. this is expressing outrage the only way upper level management can get the picture. the town should be commended for it......but its not as if nobody cared like you said. not at all. we all love the phillies. always will. those were some historically bad teams on a team with 10,000 losses--the most of any professional sports team ever. and you still had 20k coming out to a drab ballpark every night.
this guy also made a comparison to yankees fans which does not hold up well either, unfortunately for him. if you take a look at their attendance figures from the 80's up through the early 90's before they became good again, it was pretty dreadful. not quite as dreadful as our 6 year span. but this was before the strike and in the most highly populated city in the country. and their numbers were only a couple thousand off from our mark. and they played in an obviously much better baseball stadium than the vet. i'm not calling them bandwagon fans, but you certainly are if you follow your argument here. they were just disatisified with the product on the field and they protested the only way a fan base can....with their wallets. kinda like what we did
so to sum up, just because you lived in this general area for a short period of time 10 years ago does not mean you know how the philadelphia fan operates and certainly does not qualify you to judge us in any way, shape or form.
so go back to manny wood, console mary hart and pat sajack, get another starting pitcher, and try another way of getting over a 2nd straight ass whupping by the philadelphia phillies. because ruining this thread isn't going over too well. it only shows how petty you are.
what a ridiculous argument. some guy lives over an hour away from the city for a year or so 10 years ago and thinks he knows everything. he's obviously just a bitter little dodger fan having a hard time coming to grips with the fact that his team just got steamrolled for the 2nd year in a row by the defending world champions.
seriously dude, the pompous attitude just reaks of jealous sour grapes. no need to rain on our parade because your team stunk it up in october again.
the fact of the matter is there was a 6 year stretch after the strike and the glow of the 93 team wore off that attendence levels shrank. philly is a firecely loyal union town and we quite honestly were not happy with what happened in the game. you know, cancelling a world series because one group of millionares cant come to terms with another group of millionares doesnt play out too well in a blue collar town like this. a town like la, not so much. combine that with the fact that management continuosly kep telling us that they could not spend money because of their inferior stadium and that philadelphia was a "small market city" they were essentially telling us that we could not compete with bigger market teams. soooo, the payroll shrunk and the town rebelled the only way us fans can, with our wallets. this is not jumping off the bandwagon. this is expressing outrage the only way upper level management can get the picture. the town should be commended for it......but its not as if nobody cared like you said. not at all. we all love the phillies. always will. those were some historically bad teams on a team with 10,000 losses--the most of any professional sports team ever. and you still had 20k coming out to a drab ballpark every night.
this guy also made a comparison to yankees fans which does not hold up well either, unfortunately for him. if you take a look at their attendance figures from the 80's up through the early 90's before they became good again, it was pretty dreadful. not quite as dreadful as our 6 year span. but this was before the strike and in the most highly populated city in the country. and their numbers were only a couple thousand off from our mark. and they played in an obviously much better baseball stadium than the vet. i'm not calling them bandwagon fans, but you certainly are if you follow your argument here. they were just disatisified with the product on the field and they protested the only way a fan base can....with their wallets. kinda like what we did
so to sum up, just because you lived in this general area for a short period of time 10 years ago does not mean you know how the philadelphia fan operates and certainly does not qualify you to judge us in any way, shape or form.
so go back to manny wood, console mary hart and pat sajack, get another starting pitcher, and try another way of getting over a 2nd straight ass whupping by the philadelphia phillies. because ruining this thread isn't going over too well. it only shows how petty you are.
GO CHAMPS
Amen, all he is another person hating on philly go figure. Me and everyone i know have supported and will continue to always support all local Philly teams good or bad. I have heard philly fans called many names before but bandwagon jumpers is a first,assholes,chokers maybe but bandwagon jumpers shows how miss informed u are. We are as loyal as it gets good or bad I was waiting to read were bad fans because we boo, i wonder if walkn has ever heard of Norman Braman Go Birds!
Game 3 was originally scheduled for 1 pm...maybe you can go to both...
huh? all world series games start at 8:07pm
I think MLB was discussing the possibility of playing WS games during the day(mainly weekdays) so young kids and such could stay up and watch the conclusion of games
They later realized its not a good idea, to me WS games are late night affairs
I can't believe that you guys arguing between LA and Philly fans?
NO conflict for me, as i will get ther EARLY. As long as some A-HOLES, don't fuck it up for the rest of us, it SHOULD be a GREAT night, for all INVOLVED.
Listen, you either go to one or go to the other (or watch the other, if you dont have tickets)
I, myself am faced with the same dilema and havent decided yet. But all this bickering between whats the right choice and what isnt is stupid. If you dont like Baseball, thats fine, but keep it to yourself. Dont be an asshole and put someone down for having a greater passion to watch their team in the World Series than a Pearl Jam show.
And it goes both ways too. You dont need to knock someone for choosing Pearl Jam over the world series.
Its just a difference in passion. Me... I'd say my passion is split 50/50. I cant decide what I wanna do.
I just fucking hate reading all these posts saying fuck you for choosing a baseball game over Pearl Jam. Get over yourselves. Its a fucking concert, and a fucking Baseball game. If you like one more, by all means, enjoy yourself. I know I will no matter what I choose.
with that being said, YANKEES SUCK!
In July 2007 Densmore said that he would not rejoin The Doors unless it was fronted by Eddie Vedder. Densmore says, "I play with Jim. If there's someone of that level, OK. I'm not gonna join them with Ian. That's not to diss Ian, he's a good singer - but he's no Jim Morrison. Eddie Vedder? My God, there's a singer."
Game 3 was originally scheduled for 1 pm...maybe you can go to both...
huh? all world series games start at 8:07pm
I think MLB was discussing the possibility of playing WS games during the day(mainly weekdays) so young kids and such could stay up and watch the conclusion of games
They later realized its not a good idea, to me WS games are late night affairs
nah, they did that with the lcs. they'd never put the world series on anything other than prime time. that would be ridiculous.
Where's that idiot around here who called Philly fans fair weather??? Did you SEE that stadium late in the game? The supposed "dedicated" Yankee fans. :roll: IT'S THE WORLD SERIES. Please, idiot, tell me why that was okay.
Comments
No offense to you. I know there are always a number of fans who are not bandwagon and who will support the team no matter what. There are always exceptions and you can never clump everyone together into one big generalized statement, so I apologize if I implied that.
I just think that a lot of Phillies fans showed their true colors during the tough period the team went through, and I feel like I have shown the numbers to prove it.
“The only way to deal with an unfree world is to become so absolutely free that your very existence is an act of rebellion.” - Albert Camus
To consistently go out and PAY for tickets to a stadium that was a dump for 81 games with a team that would consistently lose 90 games is not what a true fan does. It's what a dumb fan does. If that's a fan, then you should call yourself Helen Keller. So what you lived here for a year and half - YOU HAVE NO IDEA. I've been here my whole life and I know how it works here. We're not going to PAY for a product that is disgusting. YOU live in a city of nearly 10 million and you were drawing 35,000/game when Murdoch owned the team - and were given the financial support to at least to be good - and you think that's impressive? The Phils averaged from '97-'01 about 25,000 fans a year in a city of 1.5 million. By your comparison I think that ratio is pretty good. You lived here for a year and a half. Grrrrrreeeat. We're harder on our teams here, and we get that message across by not going. So some dumbasses in your city want to go out and watch a team consistently lose? That not being a fan, that's called blind faith. And that's for religious freaks, and idiots. Were the Phillies tearing it up in '04 when they came into a new ballpark? Not necessarily, but we saw in the offseason between '02 and '03 when plans were coming together that they were actually trying. And that stadium was consistently filled. Ya know why? Because management was changing, ownership was put into the hands of one man, and there was some revival of life from that concrete parking lot they played in for 26 years. I've been here for 27 years, and you're year and a half means shit. We appreciate effort here, and that's all we want. You know shit.
They only come out when they win? Tell me how an organization - the only team in professional sports mind you, and something I'm not proud of - that's lost 10,000 games and has been around IN THIS CITY for over 125 years only comes out when it wins? The successful team in this city left in the 50's. So come on, come at me with more paragraphs about how your argument makes no sense, Ms. Keller. Just like how you follow your team - with a dumb sense of blind faith.
It’s ironic how in a statement in which you tried to prove the quality of Phillies fans you instead completely proved my point.
You were exactly right when you said fans didn’t come because the stadium sucked. See, that’s my point. The fans shouldn’t come out only because the team moves to a pretty new stadium – fuck the stadium, and fuck the management. Come out to support your players and let them know that you are behind them despite where they play or how much they struggle. Let the young guys on the team know that you are going to have their back and support them as they hone their skills. Let other teams and other players know that your city is a great place to play because your fans are loyal and always have the back of the team they love.
It is not blind faith to support your team when it hits a rough spot or doesn’t play in a pretty new stadium. Rather, it is the true test of a fan. Dodgers fans have passed that test time and time again. Philadelphia fans have failed miserably.
I’ve already proven that the fans only come out when they win. The only reason the team stayed in Philadelphia when they were drawing 20,000 fans and less a game was because they play in a major U.S. city so the league would never allow them to just leave. If they had been in Tampa or San Diego or a lesser city during those years they would have been long gone.
“The only way to deal with an unfree world is to become so absolutely free that your very existence is an act of rebellion.” - Albert Camus
I've been waiting for these PJ shows for months now and now that the Phils have another shot at the World Series, is just icing on the cake.
Let's not spoil the mood.
It's all good.
This is unbelievably ridiculous to read. So I go out and continuously watch a team lose and pay for it? No, you're right, keep going out and continously root for a team of horrible players because management and ownership made it that way? It's not all about the players. Ya see, that's what you don't understand, we care about management, and ownership. You have to. If they're not giving an effort then why should we? People who are bandwagons are cities like Tampa and Miami who AFTER going to and winning world series WENT RIGHT BACK TO AN AVERAGE OF 20,000 FANS. So dumb these remarks are. You think people in Pittsburgh(multiple titles), Cincinnati(Big Red Machine), and Baltimore(rooted in baseball) WANT to average 20,000 fans a year? NO! It's because they know the product you're getting. Your argument boils down to blind faith because those are other baseball rich cities that have been soiled by bad management.
Oh and the city wouldn't move the Phillies because it's a major US city? What a dumb fucking statement. What's the biggest sport in this country? Football. What MAJOR US CITY doesn't have a team? I REST MY CASE.
Guy's from LA and HE is going to tell me about bandwagon cities....rrrright.
Here's another stat for ya - in your city of nearly 10 million, you and that other Disneyland team from LA RANKED AT THE VERY BOTTOM IN TV RATINGS. And that's a fact. Choke on that. Go back to having Mary Hart, Laverne or Shirley, Pat Sajak, Larry King, and Mannywood getting all the face time. Cause ya know, that all people care about. Oh, and sell some more Manny dreadlocks to bump up attendance. Ridiculous.
http://bizofbaseball.com/index.php?opti ... Itemid=122
Albany 2006 Camden 2006 E. Rutherford 2, 2006 Inglewood 2006,
Chicago 2007
Camden 2008 MSG 2008 MSG 2008 Hartford 2008.
Seattle 2009 Seattle 2009 Philadelphia 2009,Philadelphia 2009 Philadelphia 2009
Hartford 2010 MSG 2010 MSG 2010
Toronto 2011,Toronto 2011
Wrigley Field 2013 Brooklyn 2013 Brooklyn 2013 Philadelphia 2, 2013
Philadelphia 1, 2016 Philadelphia 2 2016 New York 2016 New York 2016 Fenway 1, 2016
Fenway 2, 2018
MSG 2022
St. Paul, 1, St. Paul 2 2023
MSG 2024, MSG 2024
Philadelphia 2024
"I play good, hard-nosed basketball.
Things happen in the game. Nothing you
can do. I don't go and say,
"I'm gonna beat this guy up."
why are you adding fuel to the fire
trust me, as a loooong time Phillies fans, we are up there with the best of them
just leave it at that
It doesn't really matter though does it? We are the city of assholes, ya know? :roll: That's why the slogan is fish and tourists smell after 3 days. And the more popular, "Welcome to Philadelphia. Now get the fuck out."
Also, sour grapes that your crappy team can't play with the Phillies.
One more thing. The NBA is a joke and is rigged to have the Lakers in the finals all the time. They've got Jerry West as GM of Memphis trading Pau Gasol to the Lakers for nothing. They end up with every other superstar, despite not drafting any of them. Give me a break. By the way, if you want to blast any Philly fans, you can go after Sixers fans. They even have trouble selling out playoff games, when they make it. 2000-01 Sixers was the biggest bandwagon jumping city ever.
WF Center 4/28/16; WF Center 4/29/16; Fenway Park 8/7/16; Fenway Park 9/2/18; Asbury Park 9/18/21; Camden 9/14/22;
Las Vegas 5/16/24; Las Vegas 5/18/24; WF Center 9/7/24; WF Center 9/9/24; Baltimore Arena 9/12/24
Tres Mtns - TLA 3/23/11; EV - Tower Theatre 6/25/11; Temple of the Dog - Tower Theatre 11/5/16
phils fans, this dude's a tool. just soak it in. revel in it. this is a beautiful thing we have going on here.
LONG LIVE THE WORLD CHAMPIONS!
DEFEND BROAD STREET!
Signed,
L.A. Gringo Fan!!!!
Where I'm not ugly and you're lookin' at me
Sponsored by Chico's Bail Bonds.
i agree with t bone here. gotta start the show earlier on saturday....
coco...that chimp's alright....
another shout out for please play black red yellow in philly!!!
Again, it's ironic that in trying to defend your argument you are just further proving my point. Your statement whittles down to this: when my team sucks, I'm not going to go see their games. When they're good, I am. Isn't that the very definition of jumping on the bandwagon?
I could maybe see your point about management if there was some form of outright protest fans were trying to put together by not going to games, but that didn't happen at all. Instead, fans simply stopped showing up and stopped talking about the team.
I guess it's just a difference of opinion here. You think it's okay for fans to stop supporting their team when the team is no good, and I think that's a sign of a bad fan. There's not really much else that can be said except that we simply see things a different way.
I don’t really see your point. The NFL and MLB are two very different entities whose powers that be run their organizations very differently. I stated that the league wouldn’t allow the Phillies to leave because they play in a major city…I didn’t say anything at all about the NFL or any other league. You can’t compare apples to oranges, dude.
Think about this logically. The television rankings include both home and away games. Those on the East Coast have a huge advantage because their games will always start at 7:00 or 10:00 local time (depending on what coast they are on). So, their broadcasts are televised at prime hours when people are home to turn on the tube.
By contrast, when West Coast teams hit the East Coast their games are going to start at 4:00. 4:00! People haven’t even gotten off work by then, and with L.A. traffic most people who work until 5:00 won’t even get home until at least 6:00, when the game is pretty much over. You can’t toss out a stupid stat like that without rationally thinking about the reasons behind such stats.
Look, this can’t go on forever, so I’ll leave it at this: IN MY OPINION Phillies fans, for all they want to puff out their chests right now, have shown themselves over the years to be very much bandwagon fans. I have supported that point with statistics to explain why I feel that way.
Obviously, this is a Philly-friendly thread, so I don’t expect much support in here. But I think a rational, unbiased person would look at the numbers and agree that they heavily suggest that my point is valid.
Finally, congrats on making another World Series. I will be rooting against you guys, but I readily acknowledge that you spanked my Dodgers for the second year in a row so I respect the quality of your team for that. I’ve tried to avoid name-calling here at all costs because my opinions are simply what I feel to be true, not a personal attack on anyone. Someone asked me how I can hate the Phillies more than the Yankees, and I think I’ve given my answer.
“The only way to deal with an unfree world is to become so absolutely free that your very existence is an act of rebellion.” - Albert Camus
Again, why are people so hung up on stadiums? The Dodgers could go play in pile of dog shit and I guarantee you Dodgers fans would still go see them in droves. The quality of a stadium should have no bearing whatsoever on how much you love and support your team. For all the shit Dodgers fans get, I just have to shake my head in shame at the number of people on here who seem to go to a game for the pretty stadium as opposed to a love for the team.
The Phillies kicked the Dodgers' ass two years in a row. I acknowledge that and am not bitter in any sense about it. In no part of this thread have I said a single word about disliking the Phillies because they beat my team or because I have any problem with any of the players on the team. I've made it clear that my dislike stems from the fans, so what are you even basing the above on?
There's nothing more pathetic than a fan shouting conspiracy theories when they get jealous of another's team success. It was a conspiracy that the Hornets decided to trade the 13th pick in the draft (Kobe Bryant) for one of the most consistent and all-around centers in the game at the time? It was a conspiracy that Shaquille O’Neal decided to join us as a free agent? It was a conspiracy that the greatest coach in the game decided to accept a contract to coach our team? It was a conspiracy that our starting point guard and starting center were both drafted by our team? Get over it, dude. You have no clue what you’re even talking about.
And I think you’ve proven a massive point with your comment about 76ers. You know, those fans you speak of live in the very same city as Phillies fans and I would be willing to bet that a lot of Phillies fans are Sixers fans as well…
“The only way to deal with an unfree world is to become so absolutely free that your very existence is an act of rebellion.” - Albert Camus
seriously dude, the pompous attitude just reaks of jealous sour grapes. no need to rain on our parade because your team stunk it up in october again.
the fact of the matter is there was a 6 year stretch after the strike and the glow of the 93 team wore off that attendence levels shrank. philly is a firecely loyal union town and we quite honestly were not happy with what happened in the game. you know, cancelling a world series because one group of millionares cant come to terms with another group of millionares doesnt play out too well in a blue collar town like this. a town like la, not so much. combine that with the fact that management continuosly kep telling us that they could not spend money because of their inferior stadium and that philadelphia was a "small market city" they were essentially telling us that we could not compete with bigger market teams. soooo, the payroll shrunk and the town rebelled the only way us fans can, with our wallets. this is not jumping off the bandwagon. this is expressing outrage the only way upper level management can get the picture. the town should be commended for it......but its not as if nobody cared like you said. not at all. we all love the phillies. always will. those were some historically bad teams on a team with 10,000 losses--the most of any professional sports team ever. and you still had 20k coming out to a drab ballpark every night.
this guy also made a comparison to yankees fans which does not hold up well either, unfortunately for him. if you take a look at their attendance figures from the 80's up through the early 90's before they became good again, it was pretty dreadful. not quite as dreadful as our 6 year span. but this was before the strike and in the most highly populated city in the country. and their numbers were only a couple thousand off from our mark. and they played in an obviously much better baseball stadium than the vet. i'm not calling them bandwagon fans, but you certainly are if you follow your argument here. they were just disatisified with the product on the field and they protested the only way a fan base can....with their wallets. kinda like what we did
so to sum up, just because you lived in this general area for a short period of time 10 years ago does not mean you know how the philadelphia fan operates and certainly does not qualify you to judge us in any way, shape or form.
so go back to manny wood, console mary hart and pat sajack, get another starting pitcher, and try another way of getting over a 2nd straight ass whupping by the philadelphia phillies. because ruining this thread isn't going over too well. it only shows how petty you are.
GO CHAMPS
Amen, all he is another person hating on philly go figure. Me and everyone i know have supported and will continue to always support all local Philly teams good or bad. I have heard philly fans called many names before but bandwagon jumpers is a first,assholes,chokers maybe but bandwagon jumpers shows how miss informed u are. We are as loyal as it gets good or bad I was waiting to read were bad fans because we boo, i wonder if walkn has ever heard of Norman Braman Go Birds!
huh? all world series games start at 8:07pm
I think MLB was discussing the possibility of playing WS games during the day(mainly weekdays) so young kids and such could stay up and watch the conclusion of games
They later realized its not a good idea, to me WS games are late night affairs
LOVE IT! nice find
NO conflict for me, as i will get ther EARLY. As long as some A-HOLES, don't fuck it up for the rest of us, it SHOULD be a GREAT night, for all INVOLVED.
I, myself am faced with the same dilema and havent decided yet. But all this bickering between whats the right choice and what isnt is stupid. If you dont like Baseball, thats fine, but keep it to yourself. Dont be an asshole and put someone down for having a greater passion to watch their team in the World Series than a Pearl Jam show.
And it goes both ways too. You dont need to knock someone for choosing Pearl Jam over the world series.
Its just a difference in passion. Me... I'd say my passion is split 50/50. I cant decide what I wanna do.
I just fucking hate reading all these posts saying fuck you for choosing a baseball game over Pearl Jam. Get over yourselves. Its a fucking concert, and a fucking Baseball game. If you like one more, by all means, enjoy yourself. I know I will no matter what I choose.
with that being said, YANKEES SUCK!
nah, they did that with the lcs. they'd never put the world series on anything other than prime time. that would be ridiculous.