Kansas abortion doctor shot and killed at church

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Comments

  • keeponrockin
    keeponrockin Posts: 7,446
    prfctlefts wrote:
    keeponrockin wrote:
    prfctlefts wrote:
    I had a feeling this was going to happen sooner or later. I dont agree with what happened to him but at the same time I dont feel sorry for him. This man was a sicko how could any one live with them selves let alone even sleep at night. why would any one want to perform late term abortions
    This man, according to the United States law, is completly innocent and performing a legal proceedure. He was murdered in cold blood for doing absolutley nothing wrong.

    I know its a legal procedure still doesn't make it right though, why dont go look at some pics of a late term abortion and then tell me how you feel. I would post a link on here but I'd probably get banned. Like I said I dont agree with the man getting gunned down in his church but at the same time it's really hard for me to feel sorry for him. He didnt get the name Tiller the baby killer for nothin :twisted:
    I know what late term abortions look like. Life begins at birth. Abortion is a practice protected by law.

    My question is, do these people that kill abortion doctors really think they're helping their cause? They make themselves look more backwards than they already look.
    Believe me, when I was growin up, I thought the worst thing you could turn out to be was normal, So I say freaks in the most complementary way. Here's a song by a fellow freak - E.V
  • ledvedderman
    ledvedderman Posts: 7,762
    prfctlefts wrote:
    keeponrockin wrote:
    prfctlefts wrote:
    I had a feeling this was going to happen sooner or later. I dont agree with what happened to him but at the same time I dont feel sorry for him. This man was a sicko how could any one live with them selves let alone even sleep at night. why would any one want to perform late term abortions
    This man, according to the United States law, is completly innocent and performing a legal proceedure. He was murdered in cold blood for doing absolutley nothing wrong.

    I know its a legal procedure still doesn't make it right though, why dont go look at some pics of a late term abortion and then tell me how you feel. I would post a link on here but I'd probably get banned. Like I said I dont agree with the man getting gunned down in his church but at the same time it's really hard for me to feel sorry for him. He didnt get the name Tiller the baby killer for nothin :twisted:

    Do photos of dead soldiers have the same effect on you and make you anti-war?
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  • _
    _ Posts: 6,657
    ledvedderman wrote:
    prfctlefts wrote:
    I know its a legal procedure still doesn't make it right though, why dont go look at some pics of a late term abortion and then tell me how you feel. I would post a link on here but I'd probably get banned. Like I said I dont agree with the man getting gunned down in his church but at the same time it's really hard for me to feel sorry for him. He didnt get the name Tiller the baby killer for nothin :twisted:

    Do photos of dead soldiers have the same effect on you and make you anti-war?

    Excellent question. I was just wondering if we would be justified in killing soldiers because they legally killed others in war. Or prison executioners. Or those people at animal control who put dogs and cats down because they don't have the resources to care for them. (I know, I know.... animals are less worthy of life than potential people. :roll: ) Or, if not justified, whether prfctlefts would at least feel sorry for them if they were gunned down while ushering at their churches.
  • jlew24asu
    jlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    scb wrote:
    jlew24asu wrote:
    do you know that all those late term abortions were "required" ?

    Yes. If not, it would have been illegal for him to do them, per Kansas abortion law:

    65-6703
    Chapter 65.--PUBLIC HEALTH
    Article 67.--ABORTION
    65-6703. Abortion prohibited when fetus viable, exceptions; determination of age of fetus; determination of viability; reports; retention of medical records; viable, defined; criminal penalties. (a) No person shall perform or induce an abortion when the fetus is viable unless such person is a physician and has a documented referral from another physician not legally or financially affiliated with the physician performing or inducing the abortion and both physicians determine that: (1) The abortion is necessary to preserve the life of the pregnant woman; or (2) a continuation of the pregnancy will cause a substantial and irreversible impairment of a major bodily function of the pregnant woman.
    jlew24asu wrote:
    I'm pro-choice (I think), but I have no compassion for a Dr who knowingly performs late term abortions.

    Why? Do you understand any of the medical and emotional reality behind late term abortions or do you just buy into the sensationalized propaganda when making the judgement that they should never be performed? These abortions are extremely rare, but there are sometimes needed. The women who need them deserve to have the best possible care, from the most skilled and compassionate physicians.

    This is a big deal in part because Dr. Tiller was one of only two or three docs in the country who performs these procedures. Who is left to serve and protect these women and their families now? I know of only ONE other doc in the whole country who has stepped up to fill this need, and his bedside manner is... lacking. The access to and quality of care for women in the United States has just suffered a HUGE loss.

    and you honestly believe all these women were in imminent danger of dying? I dont know, even so, I have a hard time letting a doctor suck out a crying baby with a vacuum.
  • g under p
    g under p Surfing The far side of THE Sombrero Galaxy Posts: 18,236
    jlew24asu wrote:
    scb wrote:
    jlew24asu wrote:
    do you know that all those late term abortions were "required" ?

    Yes. If not, it would have been illegal for him to do them, per Kansas abortion law:

    65-6703
    Chapter 65.--PUBLIC HEALTH
    Article 67.--ABORTION
    65-6703. Abortion prohibited when fetus viable, exceptions; determination of age of fetus; determination of viability; reports; retention of medical records; viable, defined; criminal penalties. (a) No person shall perform or induce an abortion when the fetus is viable unless such person is a physician and has a documented referral from another physician not legally or financially affiliated with the physician performing or inducing the abortion and both physicians determine that: (1) The abortion is necessary to preserve the life of the pregnant woman; or (2) a continuation of the pregnancy will cause a substantial and irreversible impairment of a major bodily function of the pregnant woman.
    jlew24asu wrote:
    I'm pro-choice (I think), but I have no compassion for a Dr who knowingly performs late term abortions.

    Why? Do you understand any of the medical and emotional reality behind late term abortions or do you just buy into the sensationalized propaganda when making the judgement that they should never be performed? These abortions are extremely rare, but there are sometimes needed. The women who need them deserve to have the best possible care, from the most skilled and compassionate physicians.

    This is a big deal in part because Dr. Tiller was one of only two or three docs in the country who performs these procedures. Who is left to serve and protect these women and their families now? I know of only ONE other doc in the whole country who has stepped up to fill this need, and his bedside manner is... lacking. The access to and quality of care for women in the United States has just suffered a HUGE loss.

    and you honestly believe all these women were in imminent danger of dying? I dont know, even so, I have a hard time letting a doctor suck out a crying baby with a vacuum.

    I have to wonder why people don't seem to get upset with the mother to be wanting to get that late term abortion. Without her wanting to have this late abortion this all wouldn't be an issue.

    Peace
    *We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti

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  • jlew24asu
    jlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    g under p wrote:

    I have to wonder why people don't seem to get upset with the mother to be wanting to get that late term abortion. Without her wanting to have this late abortion this all wouldn't be an issue.

    Peace

    I'm sure its not an easy decision for a woman to do this. no need in bashing her, IMO. but without Dr's willing to kill crying babies then this wouldnt be an issue at all.
  • know1
    know1 Posts: 6,801
    What a hypocritical and sad thing to do. I personally think abortion is murder, but one murder doesn't justify another.
    The only people we should try to get even with...
    ...are those who've helped us.

    Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
  • megatron
    megatron Posts: 3,420
    arthurdent wrote:
    prfctlefts wrote:
    This man was a sicko how could any one live with them selves let alone even sleep at night. why would any one want to perform late term abortions

    Either life begins at conception, or it begins at birth. I've never really understood what makes late term abortions "special"

    doesn't seem like a moral debate..more like who want to perform that. just seems awful. would scar me for life to be a part of that procedure.

    either way you can't shoot the man for it..
  • puremagic
    puremagic Posts: 1,907
    People like him are cowards. How cowardly is it to allow what you believe as murder to occur, in order, to justify another murder.

    If you are anti-abortion and you are willing to kill for that belief then - kill the pregnant person before she does it - why wait until she has an abortion, to murder the doctor. The pregnancy is terminated, the doctor is dead, you are headed to prison, and she is alive and well to go on with her life.
    SIN EATERS--We take the moral excrement we find in this equation and we bury it down deep inside of us so that the rest of our case can stay pure. That is the job. We are morally indefensible and absolutely necessary.
  • decides2dream
    decides2dream Posts: 14,977
    keeponrockin wrote:
    prfctlefts wrote:
    I had a feeling this was going to happen sooner or later. I dont agree with what happened to him but at the same time I dont feel sorry for him. This man was a sicko how could any one live with them selves let alone even sleep at night. why would any one want to perform late term abortions
    This man, according to the United States law, is completly innocent and performing a legal proceedure. He was murdered in cold blood for doing absolutley nothing wrong.




    exactly.
    whether one agrees or disagrees, the law is the law.
    and someone BROKE the law by ending this man's life.
    way to send a *message*....
    Stay with me...
    Let's just breathe...


    I am myself like you somehow


  • polaris_x
    polaris_x Posts: 13,559
    america continues to divide itself
  • jlew24asu
    jlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    polaris_x wrote:
    america continues to divide itself

    ...on this issue.

    can you blame us? this is the most divisive issue in America....and an issue that people will never ever never ompletely agree on.
  • polaris_x
    polaris_x Posts: 13,559
    jlew24asu wrote:
    polaris_x wrote:
    america continues to divide itself

    ...on this issue.

    can you blame us? this is the most divisive issue in America....and an issue that people will never ever never ompletely agree on.

    what about prop 8? ... what about climate change? ... what about the middle east? ... these are all contentious issues in the US where the sides of this discussion continue to divide americans ...
  • decides2dream
    decides2dream Posts: 14,977
    polaris_x wrote:
    jlew24asu wrote:
    polaris_x wrote:
    america continues to divide itself

    ...on this issue.

    can you blame us? this is the most divisive issue in America....and an issue that people will never ever never ompletely agree on.

    what about prop 8? ... what about climate change? ... what about the middle east? ... these are all contentious issues in the US where the sides of this discussion continue to divide americans ...


    it's very true...and more than simply interesting.
    i've oftentimes thought perhaps we've almost grown too *big*....and too *diverse*.......is that possible? i like to think of our diversity, and acceptance of it, as 100% a GOOD thing, and i truly think it is. i also like to think that these 5o 'united' states.....also a good thing, a great idea.....but man, we are so BIG.....and we are filled with so many people with vastly divergent opinions....how do we EVER get a governement to truly represent the will of the people when the people overall DO seem so divided in many ways? i'd like to think all our forward progress in so many ways would actually lead to a lot of good in our country and the world. and, i have no idea how to change any of it.....just agreeing, yea......we ARE very divided in oh so many ways.....
    Stay with me...
    Let's just breathe...


    I am myself like you somehow


  • jlew24asu
    jlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    polaris_x wrote:
    jlew24asu wrote:
    polaris_x wrote:
    america continues to divide itself

    ...on this issue.

    can you blame us? this is the most divisive issue in America....and an issue that people will never ever never ompletely agree on.

    what about prop 8? ... what about climate change? ... what about the middle east? ... these are all contentious issues in the US where the sides of this discussion continue to divide americans ...

    but not as much as abortion. which is my point. secondly, there is barely any divide on climate change or the middle east. I'll give ya the gay marriage divide however.
  • jlew24asu
    jlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    decides2dream wrote:


    it's very true...and more than simply interesting.
    i've oftentimes thought perhaps we've almost grown too *big*....and too *diverse*.......is that possible? i like to think of our diversity, and acceptance of it, as 100% a GOOD thing, and i truly think it is. i also like to think that these 5o 'united' states.....also a good thing, a great idea.....but man, we are so BIG.....and we are filled with so many people with vastly divergent opinions....how do we EVER get a governement to truly represent the will of the people when the people overall DO seem so divided in many ways? i'd like to think all our forward progress in so many ways would actually lead to a lot of good in our country and the world. and, i have no idea how to change any of it.....just agreeing, yea......we ARE very divided in oh so many ways.....

    can I join the agree party! :D but I really do agree. which makes me think...isn't it so nice to be able to form our own opinion and express it freely???? so many dont understand how this simply isn't allowed in other parts of the world. :(
  • polaris_x
    polaris_x Posts: 13,559
    jlew24asu wrote:
    but not as much as abortion. which is my point. secondly, there is barely any divide on climate change or the middle east. I'll give ya the gay marriage divide however.

    i would say there is no consensus on any of those issues ... most people are either pro-israel or pro-palestinian, either believe in climate change or don't and are pro-choice or pro-life ... i could add creationists vs evolutionists ... all these topics tend to be avoided as they often get confrontational in social settings ...

    as for your prior post - i believe that this divide comes from 2 main things: 1. the PR / propaganda machine that is highly effective by special interests groups and 2. a mainstream media base that are owned by large multi-nationals who have not only business interests but are not willing to potentially offend a consumer base.
  • _
    _ Posts: 6,657
    jlew24asu wrote:
    and you honestly believe all these women were in imminent danger of dying? I dont know, even so, I have a hard time letting a doctor suck out a crying baby with a vacuum.

    A. Dr. Tiller has been the primary focus of the anti-abortion movement for many years. They have done everything to try to prove that he was breaking the law and, after each investigation, it has been found that he wasn't.

    B. Babies don't cry when they are aborted and, at the gestational age to which you are referring, they don't use a vacuum. You don't know what you're talking about.
  • jlew24asu
    jlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    polaris_x wrote:
    jlew24asu wrote:
    but not as much as abortion. which is my point. secondly, there is barely any divide on climate change or the middle east. I'll give ya the gay marriage divide however.

    i would say there is no consensus on any of those issues ... most people are either pro-israel or pro-palestinian, either believe in climate change or don't and are pro-choice or pro-life ... i could add creationists vs evolutionists ... all these topics tend to be avoided as they often get confrontational in social settings ...

    again, its not as divisive as you think or claim. you arent even American :roll: I know I know, you watch the news so you know exactly whats going on here in the states. abortion is 1000x more divisive that all other issues combined.
  • ledvedderman
    ledvedderman Posts: 7,762
    jlew24asu wrote:
    polaris_x wrote:
    america continues to divide itself

    ...on this issue.

    can you blame us? this is the most divisive issue in America....and an issue that people will never ever never ompletely agree on.

    I can't even agree with myself on this issue.
    E8toX.gif

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