I say there are some women who get a late term abortion simply because they can.
Okay, let's think this through. Even if women got abortions "simply because they can" :roll: , why would they wait until it's more expensive, painful, and dangerous?
I say there are some women who get a late term abortion simply because they can.
Okay, let's think this through. Even if women got abortions "simply because they can" :roll: , why would they wait until it's more expensive, painful, and dangerous?
they become scared of taking on the responsibility of being a mother?
I will concede however that its rare. and as you pointed out, this Doctor seemed to do most of them when the mother was in danger of losing her life. correct?
I say there are some women who get a late term abortion simply because they can.
i have to say, you have an uncanny ability to take a thread off track, is that purposeful, or simply a gift?
my question to you is, even if you think/believe this (and even you would have to admit even if what you think is true...it is more than likely, very, very rare)......wtf difference does that make in regards to THIS doctor's death? if somehow what you think is true, do you somehow believe this *justifies* him being killed? fact remains, EVERYthing this doctor has done as a medical profession is LEGAL.
I say there are some women who get a late term abortion simply because they can.
Okay, let's think this through. Even if women got abortions "simply because they can" :roll: , why would they wait until it's more expensive, painful, and dangerous?
they become scared of taking on the responsibility of being a mother?
Then they could have an abortion earlier. Regardless, that's not "simply because they can". You make it sound like a fun way to party on a Saturday night or something.
I will concede however that its rare. and as you pointed out, this Doctor seemed to do most of them when the mother was in danger of losing her life. correct?
Then they could have an abortion earlier. Regardless, that's not "simply because they can". You make it sound like a fun way to party on a Saturday night or something.
of course they can. but I'm sure sometimes they dont. kinda like stage fright. the most frightening moment is usually seconds before you get on stage.
I will concede however that its rare. and as you pointed out, this Doctor seemed to do most of them when the mother was in danger of losing her life. correct?
Please refer back to the law I posted.[/quote]
I'm not talking about the law. I'm talking about this Dr performing these abortions only when the mother was in danger.
according to the law, a mother can walk into his office 8 months pregnant and have it sucked out....and not give a reason.
Then they could have an abortion earlier. Regardless, that's not "simply because they can". You make it sound like a fun way to party on a Saturday night or something.
of course they can. but I'm sure sometimes they dont. kinda like stage fright. the most frightening moment is usually seconds before you get on stage.
I will concede however that its rare. and as you pointed out, this Doctor seemed to do most of them when the mother was in danger of losing her life. correct?
Yes. If not, it would have been illegal for him to do them, per Kansas abortion law:
65-6703
Chapter 65.--PUBLIC HEALTH
Article 67.--ABORTION
65-6703. Abortion prohibited when fetus viable, exceptions; determination of age of fetus; determination of viability; reports; retention of medical records; viable, defined; criminal penalties. (a) No person shall perform or induce an abortion when the fetus is viable unless such person is a physician and has a documented referral from another physician not legally or financially affiliated with the physician performing or inducing the abortion and both physicians determine that: (1) The abortion is necessary to preserve the life of the pregnant woman; or (2) a continuation of the pregnancy will cause a substantial and irreversible impairment of a major bodily function of the pregnant woman.
a woman simply CAN'T decide to just go ahead and do that, b/c no doctor can legally perform an abortion that late term simply b/c she decides 'she just doesn't want it.'
I'm not talking about the law. I'm talking about this Dr performing these abortions only when the mother was in danger.
according to the law, a mother can walk into his office 8 months pregnant and have it sucked out....and not give a reason.
Huh? Where are you getting that from? Once again, the law:
(a) No person shall perform or induce an abortion when the fetus is viable unless such person is a physician and has a documented referral from another physician not legally or financially affiliated with the physician performing or inducing the abortion and both physicians determine that: (1) The abortion is necessary to preserve the life of the pregnant woman; or (2) a continuation of the pregnancy will cause a substantial and irreversible impairment of a major bodily function of the pregnant woman.
I will concede however that its rare. and as you pointed out, this Doctor seemed to do most of them when the mother was in danger of losing her life. correct?
Please refer back to the law I posted.
I'm not talking about the law. I'm talking about this Dr performing these abortions only when the mother was in danger.
according to the law, a mother can walk into his office 8 months pregnant and have it sucked out....and not give a reason.
Wait, so you are or aren't talking about the law? I think she was making it pretty clear that under the law, she CAN'T do that in Kansas and he never did. So what does this have to do with the tragedy of his death? Is it somehow less appalling if the doctor, in your eyes, got what was coming to him because some other doctors elsewhere are not as selective as to when they perform this procedure? What exactly is your argument here?
Wait, so you are or aren't talking about the law? I think she was making it pretty clear that under the law, she CAN'T do that in Kansas and he never did. So what does this have to do with the tragedy of his death? Is it somehow less appalling if the doctor, in your eyes, got what was coming to him because some other doctors elsewhere are not as selective as to when they perform this procedure? What exactly is your argument here?
I was asking if this Doctor performed all these late term abortions because the mother was in danger of dying...or simply because he could.
I'm not talking about the law. I'm talking about this Dr performing these abortions only when the mother was in danger.
according to the law, a mother can walk into his office 8 months pregnant and have it sucked out....and not give a reason.
Wait, so you are or aren't talking about the law? I think she was making it pretty clear that under the law, she CAN'T do that in Kansas and he never did. So what does this have to do with the tragedy of his death? Is it somehow less appalling if the doctor, in your eyes, got what was coming to him because some other doctors elsewhere are not as selective as to when they perform this procedure? What exactly is your argument here?
i've been asking this same question.....unanswered....
it's pretty clear what the law is, it is pretty clear this doctor had been practicing his medical profession lawfully....but somehow b/c he performed, legal, late-term abortions he is undeserving of compassion for his murder....and that makes it ok? :?
and apparently misinformed of just what the law is, since, clearly.....a woman canNOT just waltz in 8 months pregnant and get a baby sucked out....... :roll:
Wait, so you are or aren't talking about the law? I think she was making it pretty clear that under the law, she CAN'T do that in Kansas and he never did. So what does this have to do with the tragedy of his death? Is it somehow less appalling if the doctor, in your eyes, got what was coming to him because some other doctors elsewhere are not as selective as to when they perform this procedure? What exactly is your argument here?
I was asking if this Doctor performed all these late term abortions because the mother was in danger of dying...or simply because he could.
I think its tragic that he was shot and killed.
and scb clearly told you to look at the law she posted, and you would have your answer. it's all there.
you also said earlier you find it hard to feel any compassion for a doctor who performed late term abortions. why, i cannot understand......
Wait, so you are or aren't talking about the law? I think she was making it pretty clear that under the law, she CAN'T do that in Kansas and he never did. So what does this have to do with the tragedy of his death? Is it somehow less appalling if the doctor, in your eyes, got what was coming to him because some other doctors elsewhere are not as selective as to when they perform this procedure? What exactly is your argument here?
I was asking if this Doctor performed all these late term abortions because the mother was in danger of dying...or simply because he could.
you also said earlier you find it hard to feel any compassion for a doctor who performed late term abortions. why, i cannot understand......
the man killed babies that were nearly born. while I think his death is tragic and wrong, no, I do not feel any compassion for him.
there is probably a reason why only 2 or 3 doctors are willing to this in the country
the fact that he did so in support and necessity of the mother's LIFE and well-being....means nothing........ :? gotcha.
the fact of the matter is, it's a sad day that a medically necessary procedure, to aide the LIFE of women, is only performed by 2-3 doctors in the whole country.....just sad. it's too politically loaded, b/c people like you think 'he's killing babies'...instead if he's saving a woman/mother's life. b/c yea, clearly....women are simply asking for this procedure, and this doctor performed it..simply b/c 'they can.' :roll:
Then they could have an abortion earlier. Regardless, that's not "simply because they can". You make it sound like a fun way to party on a Saturday night or something.
of course they can. but I'm sure sometimes they dont. kinda like stage fright. the most frightening moment is usually seconds before you get on stage.
I will concede however that its rare. and as you pointed out, this Doctor seemed to do most of them when the mother was in danger of losing her life. correct?
Yes. If not, it would have been illegal for him to do them, per Kansas abortion law:
65-6703
Chapter 65.--PUBLIC HEALTH
Article 67.--ABORTION
65-6703. Abortion prohibited when fetus viable, exceptions; determination of age of fetus; determination of viability; reports; retention of medical records; viable, defined; criminal penalties. (a) No person shall perform or induce an abortion when the fetus is viable unless such person is a physician and has a documented referral from another physician not legally or financially affiliated with the physician performing or inducing the abortion and both physicians determine that: (1) The abortion is necessary to preserve the life of the pregnant woman; or (2) a continuation of the pregnancy will cause a substantial and irreversible impairment of a major bodily function of the pregnant woman.
a woman simply CAN'T decide to just go ahead and do that, b/c no doctor can legally perform an abortion that late term simply b/c she decides 'she just doesn't want it.'
btw - you DID get a direct answer.....from me, and then scb also followed with the same info.
i remember the other day someone asking you to back up a point you made and you said, i am paraphrasing 'you have fucking google, so use it!' and yet here, all scb asked was for you to go back in THIS very thread, and read information she ALREADY provided, that was DIRECTED at you originally no less, earlier in the thread....and you feel you didn't get a direct answer. and then we both reposted it for you in any case......perhaps if you read the responses, even only those directed at your own questions...you'd find your answers.
do you know that all those late term abortions were "required" ?
Yes. If not, it would have been illegal for him to do them, per Kansas abortion law:
65-6703
Chapter 65.--PUBLIC HEALTH
Article 67.--ABORTION
65-6703. Abortion prohibited when fetus viable, exceptions; determination of age of fetus; determination of viability; reports; retention of medical records; viable, defined; criminal penalties. (a) No person shall perform or induce an abortion when the fetus is viable unless such person is a physician and has a documented referral from another physician not legally or financially affiliated with the physician performing or inducing the abortion and both physicians determine that: (1) The abortion is necessary to preserve the life of the pregnant woman; or (2) a continuation of the pregnancy will cause a substantial and irreversible impairment of a major bodily function of the pregnant woman.
I'm pro-choice (I think), but I have no compassion for a Dr who knowingly performs late term abortions.
Why? Do you understand any of the medical and emotional reality behind late term abortions or do you just buy into the sensationalized propaganda when making the judgement that they should never be performed? These abortions are extremely rare, but there are sometimes needed. The women who need them deserve to have the best possible care, from the most skilled and compassionate physicians.
This is a big deal in part because Dr. Tiller was one of only two or three docs in the country who performs these procedures. Who is left to serve and protect these women and their families now? I know of only ONE other doc in the whole country who has stepped up to fill this need, and his bedside manner is... lacking. The access to and quality of care for women in the United States has just suffered a HUGE loss.
btw - you DID get a direct answer.....from me, and then scb also followed with the same info.
i remember the other day someone asking you to back up a point you made and you said, i am paraphrasing 'you have fucking google, so use it!' and yet here, all scb asked was for you to go back in THIS very thread, and read information she ALREADY provided, that was DIRECTED at you originally no less, earlier in the thread....and you feel you didn't get a direct answer. and then we both reposted it for you in any case......perhaps if you read the responses, even only those directed at your own questions...you'd find your answers.
Yeah... that Google post was directed toward me. I believe it was preceded by "Who the fuck are you?"
btw - you DID get a direct answer.....from me, and then scb also followed with the same info.
i remember the other day someone asking you to back up a point you made and you said, i am paraphrasing 'you have fucking google, so use it!' and yet here, all scb asked was for you to go back in THIS very thread, and read information she ALREADY provided, that was DIRECTED at you originally no less, earlier in the thread....and you feel you didn't get a direct answer. and then we both reposted it for you in any case......perhaps if you read the responses, even only those directed at your own questions...you'd find your answers.
Yeah... that Google post was directed toward me. I believe it was preceded by "Who the fuck are you?"
btw - you DID get a direct answer.....from me, and then scb also followed with the same info.
i remember the other day someone asking you to back up a point you made and you said, i am paraphrasing 'you have fucking google, so use it!' and yet here, all scb asked was for you to go back in THIS very thread, and read information she ALREADY provided, that was DIRECTED at you originally no less, earlier in the thread....and you feel you didn't get a direct answer. and then we both reposted it for you in any case......perhaps if you read the responses, even only those directed at your own questions...you'd find your answers.
Yeah... that Google post was directed toward me. I believe it was preceded by "Who the fuck are you?"
ha, was it you? i couldn't remember....oh the irony!
seriously.
the fact that he did so in support and necessity of the mother's LIFE and well-being....means nothing........ gotcha.
the fact of the matter is, it's a sad day that a medically necessary procedure, to aide the LIFE of women, is only performed by 2-3 doctors in the whole country.....just sad. it's too politically loaded, b/c people like you think 'he's killing babies'...instead if he's saving a woman/mother's life. b/c yea, clearly....women are simply asking for this procedure, and this doctor performed it..simply b/c 'they can.'
THIS is what is so truly sad. here was a man dedicated to women's health....and all many will see is a 'baby killer'......unbelievable.
I apologize. I was wrong :oops: I didnt see that part. I didnt know a reason was required.
good to know. only reason i pointed it out, when you ask a question...it might be a good idea to actually read the answer provided. it might prevent needless discussion of a point already covered.......:)
why is it that so few doctors are not willing to perform late term abortions?
it took 6 pages on an internet forum from 2 different people to get you to understand - now, imagine what it's like convincing the rest of america ...
edit: this is not meant to be a slag to you - just simply that people have certain preconceived notions especially if they listen to pundits that share their "belief" system ... it doesn't take much to convince a pro-lifer that these late-term abortions are akin to baby-killing ...
why is it that so few doctors are not willing to perform late term abortions?
it took 6 pages on an internet forum from 2 different people to get you to understand - now, imagine what it's like convincing the rest of america ...
exactly.
perhpas it's the stigma associated with 'killing babies' which seems that for far too many, that is ALL they see.......and not the reality of it all. how many doctors want to get shot down for doing their lawful job, in church no less? yea........that might be one explaination.
why is it that so few doctors are not willing to perform late term abortions?
Was that double-negative intended? If not,
A. You might get murdered.
B. You'll probably get harassed.
C. It requires a special level of training that is very difficult to obtain.
D. Malpractice costs are high.
E. It's an emotionally difficult job (but somebody's got to do it).
why is it that so few doctors are not willing to perform late term abortions?
it took 6 pages on an internet forum from 2 different people to get you to understand - now, imagine what it's like convincing the rest of america ...
edit: this is not meant to be a slag to you - just simply that people have certain preconceived notions especially if they listen to pundits that share their "belief" system ... it doesn't take much to convince a pro-lifer that these late-term abortions are akin to baby-killing ...
huh? I still dont think they should been performed. no one got me to understand shit. the only thing I learned was that you need a reason to have an abortion. so what? I still believe late term abortions should be banned. and I'm pro-choice. go figure.
regardless, my original question was still not answered.
why is it that so few doctors are not willing to perform late term abortions
why is it that so few doctors are not willing to perform late term abortions?
Was that double-negative intended? If not,
A. You might get murdered.
B. You'll probably get harassed.
C. It requires a special level of training that is very difficult to obtain.
D. Malpractice costs are high.
E. It's an emotionally difficult job (but somebody's got to do it).
thank you.
a) thats very rare is it not?
b) true. so what. so do professional athletes when they go to a opposing city. boo who
c) I doubt that but if you say so
d) I'll give ya that
e) somebody doesn't have to do it
huh? I still dont think they should been performed. no one got me to understand shit. the only thing I learned was that you need a reason to have an abortion. so what? I still believe late term abortions should be banned. and I'm pro-choice. go figure.
regardless, my original question was still not answered.
why is it that so few doctors are not willing to perform late term abortions
So women whose lives or health are in danger without the abortion should just be left to suffer and/or die? (By the way, if the woman dies, the baby will likely die too, so no one will have been saved.)
why is it that so few doctors are not willing to perform late term abortions?
it took 6 pages on an internet forum from 2 different people to get you to understand - now, imagine what it's like convincing the rest of america ...
edit: this is not meant to be a slag to you - just simply that people have certain preconceived notions especially if they listen to pundits that share their "belief" system ... it doesn't take much to convince a pro-lifer that these late-term abortions are akin to baby-killing ...
huh? I still dont think they should been performed. no one got me to understand shit. the only thing I learned was that you need a reason to have an abortion. so what? I still believe late term abortions should be banned. and I'm pro-choice. go figure.
regardless, my original question was still not answered.
why is it that so few doctors are not willing to perform late term abortions
so ... the woman should die?
and i think d2d and scb answered your questions better than the way i tried to
huh? I still dont think they should been performed. no one got me to understand shit. the only thing I learned was that you need a reason to have an abortion. so what? I still believe late term abortions should be banned. and I'm pro-choice. go figure.
regardless, my original question was still not answered.
why is it that so few doctors are not willing to perform late term abortions
So women whose lives or health are in danger without the abortion should just be left to suffer and/or die? (By the way, if the woman dies, the baby will likely die too, so no one will have been saved.)
I'd be fine with this...
(1) The abortion is necessary to preserve the life of the pregnant woman
Comments
I'm not proposing an alternative. I'm pointing out that both sides can use the same logic and even same text.
Person A is telling person B "Deal with it other than killing"
Person B is telling person A "Deal with it other than killing"
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Okay, let's think this through. Even if women got abortions "simply because they can" :roll: , why would they wait until it's more expensive, painful, and dangerous?
That's true. But that will only work for one of the people in this scenario.
they become scared of taking on the responsibility of being a mother?
I will concede however that its rare. and as you pointed out, this Doctor seemed to do most of them when the mother was in danger of losing her life. correct?
i have to say, you have an uncanny ability to take a thread off track, is that purposeful, or simply a gift?
my question to you is, even if you think/believe this (and even you would have to admit even if what you think is true...it is more than likely, very, very rare)......wtf difference does that make in regards to THIS doctor's death? if somehow what you think is true, do you somehow believe this *justifies* him being killed? fact remains, EVERYthing this doctor has done as a medical profession is LEGAL.
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
Then they could have an abortion earlier. Regardless, that's not "simply because they can". You make it sound like a fun way to party on a Saturday night or something.
Please refer back to the law I posted.
of course they can. but I'm sure sometimes they dont. kinda like stage fright. the most frightening moment is usually seconds before you get on stage.
Please refer back to the law I posted.[/quote]
I'm not talking about the law. I'm talking about this Dr performing these abortions only when the mother was in danger.
according to the law, a mother can walk into his office 8 months pregnant and have it sucked out....and not give a reason.
this is where you conveniently disregard previous posts:
a woman simply CAN'T decide to just go ahead and do that, b/c no doctor can legally perform an abortion that late term simply b/c she decides 'she just doesn't want it.'
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
Huh? Where are you getting that from? Once again, the law:
(a) No person shall perform or induce an abortion when the fetus is viable unless such person is a physician and has a documented referral from another physician not legally or financially affiliated with the physician performing or inducing the abortion and both physicians determine that: (1) The abortion is necessary to preserve the life of the pregnant woman; or (2) a continuation of the pregnancy will cause a substantial and irreversible impairment of a major bodily function of the pregnant woman.
EDIT: D2D beat me to it.
Wait, so you are or aren't talking about the law? I think she was making it pretty clear that under the law, she CAN'T do that in Kansas and he never did. So what does this have to do with the tragedy of his death? Is it somehow less appalling if the doctor, in your eyes, got what was coming to him because some other doctors elsewhere are not as selective as to when they perform this procedure? What exactly is your argument here?
I was asking if this Doctor performed all these late term abortions because the mother was in danger of dying...or simply because he could.
I think its tragic that he was shot and killed.
i've been asking this same question.....unanswered....
it's pretty clear what the law is, it is pretty clear this doctor had been practicing his medical profession lawfully....but somehow b/c he performed, legal, late-term abortions he is undeserving of compassion for his murder....and that makes it ok? :?
and apparently misinformed of just what the law is, since, clearly.....a woman canNOT just waltz in 8 months pregnant and get a baby sucked out....... :roll:
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
and scb clearly told you to look at the law she posted, and you would have your answer. it's all there.
you also said earlier you find it hard to feel any compassion for a doctor who performed late term abortions. why, i cannot understand......
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
the man killed babies that were nearly born. while I think his death is tragic and wrong, no, I do not feel any compassion for him.
there is probably a reason why only 2 or 3 doctors are willing to this in the country
the fact that he did so in support and necessity of the mother's LIFE and well-being....means nothing........ :? gotcha.
the fact of the matter is, it's a sad day that a medically necessary procedure, to aide the LIFE of women, is only performed by 2-3 doctors in the whole country.....just sad. it's too politically loaded, b/c people like you think 'he's killing babies'...instead if he's saving a woman/mother's life. b/c yea, clearly....women are simply asking for this procedure, and this doctor performed it..simply b/c 'they can.' :roll:
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
btw - you DID get a direct answer.....from me, and then scb also followed with the same info.
i remember the other day someone asking you to back up a point you made and you said, i am paraphrasing 'you have fucking google, so use it!' and yet here, all scb asked was for you to go back in THIS very thread, and read information she ALREADY provided, that was DIRECTED at you originally no less, earlier in the thread....and you feel you didn't get a direct answer. and then we both reposted it for you in any case......perhaps if you read the responses, even only those directed at your own questions...you'd find your answers.
from page 2:
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
Yeah... that Google post was directed toward me. I believe it was preceded by "Who the fuck are you?"
you like when I talk dirty to you
ha, was it you? i couldn't remember....oh the irony!
seriously.
keeping on topic tho, yea..quoting myself.....
THIS is what is so truly sad. here was a man dedicated to women's health....and all many will see is a 'baby killer'......unbelievable.
edit -
good to know. only reason i pointed it out, when you ask a question...it might be a good idea to actually read the answer provided.
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
it took 6 pages on an internet forum from 2 different people to get you to understand - now, imagine what it's like convincing the rest of america ...
edit: this is not meant to be a slag to you - just simply that people have certain preconceived notions especially if they listen to pundits that share their "belief" system ... it doesn't take much to convince a pro-lifer that these late-term abortions are akin to baby-killing ...
exactly.
perhpas it's the stigma associated with 'killing babies' which seems that for far too many, that is ALL they see.......and not the reality of it all. how many doctors want to get shot down for doing their lawful job, in church no less? yea........that might be one explaination.
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
Was that double-negative intended? If not,
A. You might get murdered.
B. You'll probably get harassed.
C. It requires a special level of training that is very difficult to obtain.
D. Malpractice costs are high.
E. It's an emotionally difficult job (but somebody's got to do it).
huh? I still dont think they should been performed. no one got me to understand shit. the only thing I learned was that you need a reason to have an abortion. so what? I still believe late term abortions should be banned. and I'm pro-choice. go figure.
regardless, my original question was still not answered.
why is it that so few doctors are not willing to perform late term abortions
thank you.
a) thats very rare is it not?
b) true. so what. so do professional athletes when they go to a opposing city. boo who
c) I doubt that but if you say so
d) I'll give ya that
e) somebody doesn't have to do it
So women whose lives or health are in danger without the abortion should just be left to suffer and/or die? (By the way, if the woman dies, the baby will likely die too, so no one will have been saved.)
so ... the woman should die?
and i think d2d and scb answered your questions better than the way i tried to
I'd be fine with this...
(1) The abortion is necessary to preserve the life of the pregnant woman