Everyone needs to watch this video

polaris_x wrote:

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jlew24asu wrote:

my view of the situation can not be any clearer. I do not support the targeting and killing of civilians. that is where we disagree.

so ... your answer is that you would do nothing ... which is fair enough response ... soulsinging's response represents a more wider opinion i believe ...

again. WOW. soulsinging wasn't being serious. he would NOT go kill the extended family and friends of someone who broke into his home. yet somehow you feel that is a widely accept view? I really can't believe what I'm reading today. its utterly shocking.

polaris_x wrote:

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soulsinging wrote:

polaris_x wrote:

so ... your answer is that you would do nothing ... which is fair enough response ... soulsinging's response represents a more wider opinion i believe ...

Huh? I don't think you picked up on the sarcasm and mockery in my response.

clearly not ... so - you would do nothing as well then?

I'd call the cops. And if they didn't help, I'd hogtie the dude and toss him out. But I would not go around killing the innocent people in his life in order to prove a point. Guilt by association sounds alarmingly like the kind of justification Bush used for the Iraq War... "well, they're all Islamic and they didn't STOP 9/11, so clearly they side with the hijackers and are fair game for killing." or "the people of Iraq didn't topple Saddam, so clearly they're part of his regime and we can kill them at at will."

See what kind of atrocities you can rationalize when you start saying that anyone tangentially tied to a guilty party is fair game for killing?

If Hamas wants to attack military installations, police stations, checkpoints, fair play to them. But once they start targeting schools, cafes, residences, etc... they're committing war crimes. I don't care what justification you offer. Yes, Israel is the far worse offender on this count, but it doesn't make it ok for others to do it less. I can't rape and murder the hot chick down the hall and say "well, she dressed like a slut so she was asking for it, and besides, Ted Bundy raped and murders 50 women, so compared to him, I''m ok."

polaris_x wrote:

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soulsinging wrote:

The fact that you think I was serious about that and you think that's ok is sickening.

And that last part is the only point jlew and I are making. It WOULD make a huge difference. Yet when we suggest it, we're called names and told we support Israeli genocide :roll:

maybe sickening to you but what is sickening to me is that current treatment of palestinians by israelis ... have you a solution? ... the sad part is that although your sarcastic response to a palestinian situation is exactly what the response is by israel to a rocket attack ...

your suggestion of not writing a blank cheque to isreal i would assume would be welcomed on this board ...

Yeah, the US should stop vetoing every measure to hold Israel accountable. For that matter, stop all military aid to Israel. Let them sort it out without us propping them up. They can afford these abuses because they know nobody can do anything about it.

But to get to that point, Hamas has to change. I'm sorry, but given the climate in the US now, it's way too easy for a Judeo-Christian country to point at Islamic terrorists and say "we're just defending ourselves." Until Hamas can have clean hands when talking about violence, public opinion will not change in the US to the extent that it needs to. Is it fair? No. But you know what? Life isn't. Cry me a fucking river and then deal with it.

polaris_x wrote:

i didn't say anything about tracking down and killing everyone - you guys put that in there for effect i presume ...
i simply stated my family came and took over your house ...

thats why your original question is pointless and irrelevant. you are trying to apply would I would do personally if my house was "invaded" and apply it to entire countries.

polaris_x wrote:

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jlew24asu wrote:

polaris_x wrote:

i didn't say anything about tracking down and killing everyone - you guys put that in there for effect i presume ...
i simply stated my family came and took over your house ...

thats why your original question is pointless and irrelevant. you are trying to apply would I would do personally if my house was "invaded" and apply it to entire countries.

not countries ... people ... settlers taking land from people ... it's a simple notion ... what do you do when no one will help ...

countries, people, settlers, whatever. you cant apply to what one person would do and apply it to everyone. which has been explained to you several times.

but yet you feel ALL civilians living in disputed land should be killed.

Byrnzie wrote:

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soulsinging wrote:

Until Hamas can have clean hands when talking about violence, public opinion will not change in the US to the extent that it needs to. Is it fair? No. But you know what? Life isn't. Cry me a fucking river and then deal with it.

The Palestinians have tried non-violence on numerous occasions. They tried it during the cease-fire last year until Israel broke the ceasefire by conducting a raid which left 6 Palestinians dead. Did the American public give a shit about Hamas keeping it's side of the bargain? Nope. Cry me a fucking river indeed.

Meanwhile, the settlement building continues.

Sorry, but one attack with 6 dead isn't going to catch America's eye. It would take time, and a consistent demonstration of Israel's brutality. Otherwise, it's like an alcoholic wanting a gold star for keeping clean a month and then falling off the wagon at the first sign of trouble. American sentiment won't change overnight.

polaris_x wrote:

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soulsinging wrote:

We put that in there to demonstrate the absurdity of saying that someone coming onto your property gives you the right to kill anyone and everyone you want, regardless of their innocence or involvement in a crime.

is that not a right enjoyed by americans now? ... i'm not sure but i could swear that if i came to your house now and threatened to take it over - you could shoot me without consequence ...

You would be very, very wrong about that.

polaris_x wrote:

it's not about killing anyone and everyone - it's about fighting back against your oppressors when no one else will help you ... again - has israel ever paid for the crimes they have committed which you have already said far outweigh those of the palestinians?

No, Israel has not. And they should. But the fact that they haven't doesn't make it ok for someone else to do the same things. I can't kill someone and then say "hey, other people murder people and don't get caught or in trouble, so I'm allowed to do it."

polaris_x wrote:

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jlew24asu wrote:

countries, people, settlers, whatever. you cant apply to what one person would do and apply it to everyone. which has been explained to you several times.

but yet you feel ALL civilians living in disputed land should be killed.

uhhh ... you haven't explained anything to me ... saying you don't like my question doesn't make it a relevant or irrelevant - it's just your opinion ...

try and walk one day in the shoe of someone who's lost everything by these illegal settlers ... do i want to see them dead? absolutely NOT but they are stealing and they have been told to leave but won't ... at some point - your resistance has to escalate beyone a letter campaign ...

Where's your line then? They stole the land, we can kill them. Ok. Where do you stop then. Your house? Can you kill someone for taking your car? Your wallet? Your ipod? Your place in line at the deli? When does it suddenly become not ok to execute someone for stealing?