Everyone needs to watch this video
fuck
Posts: 4,069
fuck
Posts: 4,069
fuck
Posts: 4,069
Comments
You tube is blocked in China now. :roll:
thats terrible. I got a little choked up watching that.
how do these make you feel?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J08GqXMr3YE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g0wJXf2nt4Y
its a siege, an occupation.
its fucking racism and fear and stupidity that drives this insane desire top keep the palestinians down, that guarantee shit like we just saw in that video will continue to happen.
I don't care who lived there first, or who fired the first bullet or launched the first attack, i don't give a shit. it needs to end. soon.
Israel had absolutely no right denying that little boys basic right of treatment. He wasn't at war with them, he never pointed a gun at them, he never fired rockets at them. His crime? He was a child born in Gaza.
Absolutely sickening.
pretty much, yeah.
It's sad on BOTH sides and BOTH sides needs to find PEACE. BTW is that Edith Piaf singing Non, je ne regrette rien in that first video?
Peace
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
Your first link shows two short clips.. one of an armed man pushing a little boy standing next to him to go back to the group.. the second shows of an armed man dragging a little boy crouching in the MIDDLE of the road back to a group of people. How exactly is that using them as human shields? Just because Israeli tv will post a short clip of a man dragging a boy doesn't mean the events are what they say it is.
The second clip is translated loosely. Arabic is my second language and I can assure you what the guy was saying was Palestinians as a whole.. women.. children.. elderly.. fighters have experienced death so much they are ready to die for the cause.. and they have become a human shield to the resistance.. its not literal..
http://www.hrw.org/legacy/reports/2002/israel2/
IN A DARK HOUR:
THE USE OF CIVILIANS DURING IDF ARREST OPERATIONS
'This report documents the Israeli Defense Forces (IDF) practice of coercing civilians to assist military
personnel and operations, a serious violation of international humanitarian law (IHL). The report is the result of investigations carried out regarding four IDF raids in late 2001 and early 2002 into the Palestinian towns of Beit Rima, Salfit, Artas, and Tulkarem.
The violations documented in these cases exemplify current IDF practices in other incursions, whether in
villages, refugee camps, or towns. One journalist reported being forced to strip and march at gunpoint to search offices in Ramallah during the largest and most recent IDF operation, “Operation Defensive Shield.”1 Other civilians had similar testimony. Palestinian and Israeli human rights organizations have reported incidents in which the IDF coerced civilians to assist military operations in Nablus, Tulkarem, East Jerusalem, and elsewhere.2
The IDF raided more than thirty Palestinian villages, towns, and refugee camps to arrest “wanted”
Palestinians between October 24, 2001 and March 31, 2002. The targets of these raids were persons alleged by the Israeli authorities to have planned or participated in attacks against Israeli military targets or against Israeli civilians. The raids began shortly after the assassination of then Israeli Tourism Minister Rehavam Ze’evi on October 18, 2001.
While the location and scale of the raids have varied, the dynamics have been the same. In the four cases
researched in detail by Human Rights Watch, eyewitnesses described a night of panic and terror, including death threats, house demolitions, and wide-scale arrests. In each of these cases, the IDF routinely coerced civilians to perform life-endangering acts that assisted IDF military operations. Eyewitnesses and victims described to Human Rights Watch how friends, neighbors, and relatives of “wanted” Palestinians were taken at gunpoint to knock on doors, open strange packages, and search houses in which the IDF suspected armed Palestinians were present.
Some families found their houses taken over and used as military positions by the IDF during an operation while they themselves were ordered to remain inside. In one case documented by Human Rights Watch, a civilian was held as a hostage in order to pressure his brother to surrender.
This report finds that the IDF is systematically coercing Palestinian civilians to assist military operations.
This practice violates a fundamental principle of IHL: that of civilian immunity. It violates Israel’s obligation to protect and respect civilian persons under Article 27 of the Fourth Geneva Convention,3 and recklessly exposes civilians to danger. The threats and coercion used by the IDF to compel civilians to assist them are explicitly prohibited under Article 31 of the Convention. The IDF should immediately stop this practice and investigate the cases documented in this report, as well as those documented by other human rights organizations.
In the case of Ahmad al-Yas ‘Aysh, who was shot in the upper leg in order to pressure his brother to
surrender to IDF forces, the IDF’s seizure and treatment of a civilian in order to force a “wanted” Palestinian to surrender amounts to hostage-taking. IHL prohibits hostage-taking at any time and in any place whatsoever. It is a serious violation of basic norms regulating international and internal armed conflict. It is a grave breach of the Fourth Geneva Convention, and as such, a war crime. Israel is obliged to investigate the case of Ahmad al-Yas ‘Aysh, and bring to justice any individuals responsible for wrongdoing.
The report also documents related IHL violations committed by IDF personnel against civilians, including
acts of endangerment, physical ill-treatment, damage to civilian property, and collective punishment. These
violations, which cause great suffering and hardship, should also cease...'
http://www.baltimorechronicle.com/2009/ ... dman.shtml
Israeli Use of Palestinians As Human Shields
by Stephen Lendman
Monday, 27 April 2009
'These are examples of customary Israeli practice in gross violation of international law and Israel's High Court ruling. They endanger civilian lives and cause "long-lasting psychological trauma."
The Al Mezan Center for Human Rights is a Gaza-based Palestinian NGO mandated "to promote, protect and prevent violations of human rights in general, and economic, social and cultural rights in particular, to provide effective aid to those victims of such violations, and to enhance the quality of life of the community in (Gaza's) marginalized sectors."
It monitors and documents violations, provides legal aid and advocacy, and helps Gazans on "fundamental issues such as basic human rights, democracy, and international humanitarian" matters. It also produces reports and publications on its work.
In April, it published a seven-case study update of its July 2008 report titled: "Hiding Behind Civilians - The Continued Use of Palestinian Civilians as Human Shields by the Israeli Occupation Forces." This article reviews both reports to highlight what international law unequivocally prohibits. Nonetheless, it's customary IDF practice even though Israel's Supreme Court banned it on October 6, 2005.
One Palestinian woman described her experience:
"They handcuffed and blindfolded me. Then, they forced us to move out of the room, pushing me with their hands and guns to move although I was blindfolded and pregnant. I heard them pushing others to hurry up as well. I got exhausted and fell down many times. I told them that I was four months pregnant and couldn't continue but a soldier threatened to shoot me."
Other witness testimonies related similar stories, at times with tragic consequences for its victims. Israel is a party to various human rights laws and conventions. As a result, it's obligated to respect and protect the rights of people it controls.
Under Article 3 of the UN General Assembly's 1948 Universal Declaration of Human Rights (UDHR): "everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of person."
Under Article 5: "no one shall be subjected to torture or to cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment."
Under Article 9: "no one shall be subjected to arbitrary arrest, detention or exile."
The General Assembly's 1977 International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (ICCPR) affirms the same rights. Under Article 17: "no one shall be subjected to arbitrary or unlawful interference with his privacy, family, home or correspondence."
Both international humanitarian law (IHL) and international human rights law (IHRL) protect life, well-being and dignity. ILH deals with armed conflicts while IHRL applies to peace as well as war. Hague and Geneva Conventions comprise the main body of IHL, and strike a balance between military necessity and humanitarian considerations. As an occupying power, Israel is obligated under them.
The Fourth Geneva Convention is designed to protect civilians in war time, including those in Occupied Palestine. It restricts the use of force and prohibits seizing non-combatants as hostages, including persons who've laid down their arms or can't fight because of illness, injury or any other reason.
Article 34 states: "the taking of hostages is prohibited." Article 28 states: "the presence of a protected person may not be used to render certain points or areas immune from military operations." Article 29 states: "the Party to the conflict in whose hands protected persons may be, is responsible for the treatment accorded to them by its agents, irrespective of any individual responsibility which may be incurred."
Protocol I, Article 51, paragraph 7 states: "the presence or movements of the civilian population or individual civilians shall not be used to render certain points or areas immune from military operations, in particular in attempts to shield military objectives from attacks or to shield, favor or impede military operations." In other words, using civilians as human shields is prohibited under all circumstances.
Further, the International Criminal Court's (ICC) Rome Statute, Article 8 prohibits the "Taking of hostages." Israel isn't a Court member but is obligated under international law. Nonetheless, it flaunts it with impunity.
Al Mezan collected sworn testimonies of people's homes seized and used as military posts for days with their residents confined for prolonged periods, beaten and abused, prevented from normal activities, and put in harm's way.
Another practice was called the "neighbor procedure," later changed to "the prior warning procedure" to get around a Court prohibition. Israel commandeers civilians, has them knock on neighbors' doors, usually at night, to deliver military orders to submit to arrest. Hostages are put in harm's way when violence at times erupts that may result in deaths or injuries.
Finally the practice was banned, but Israel blatantly disregarded its own High Court ruling as well as its clear obligation under IHL. It continues to use civilian men, women and children as human shields.
During the Second Intifada (especially for Israel's large-scale West Bank Operation Defensive Shield incursion), Amnesty International (AI) said the following in October 2005:
AI "investigated tens of cases where the Israeli army used Palestinians, children as well as adults, as 'human shields' during military operations in towns and refugee camps throughout the Occupied Territories. Palestinians were forced to walk in front of Israeli soldiers who, at times, fired their weapons while shielding themselves behind the civilians. As well (they) were made to enter houses ahead of Israeli soldiers to check for explosives or gunmen hiding inside, to inspect suspicious objects, to stay in their houses when Israeli soldiers took them over to use as sniper positions, or to enter the houses of wanted, possibly armed, Palestinians to tell them to surrender to Israeli forces."
B'Tselem reports that Israel routinely uses "human shields (as) an integral part of the orders received by Israeli soldiers...." Al Mezan documented "dozens of cases" in Gaza in spite of specific High Court prohibitions, usually at times of incursions. Case studies below refute Israeli claims about respecting civilians, not using them as shields, and abiding strictly according to international and its own case law.
Israeli officials lie. As standard practice, they seize Palestinian civilians randomly, including women and young children, then force them into harm's way. Usually to:
* let soldiers commandeer their homes as military posts and for sniper positions;
* check for possible booby-traps in buildings;
* order occupants inside to leave;
* remove suspicious objects anywhere soldiers may go;
* shield them from gunfire or thrown rocks; and
* perform whatever other tasks soldiers order under very real threats they'll be shot if they refuse.
Orders to conduct these practices come from top commanders, not soldiers in the field...'
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/ma ... elds-claim
Palestinian brothers: 'Israel used us as human shields in Gaza war'
Three teenage boys say they were made to kneel in front of tanks to deter Hamas attacks
Clancy Chassay - guardian.co.uk, Monday 23 March 2009
'Israel has been accused of using Palestinian human shields during its invasion of Gaza, a breach of the Geneva conventions that prohibit intentionally putting civilian lives at risk.The Guardian has interviewed three Gazan brothers who described how they were taken from their home at gunpoint, made to kneel in front of tanks to deter Hamas fighters from firing and sent by Israeli soldiers into Palestinian houses to clear them.
"They would make us go first, so if any fighters shot at them the bullets would hit us, not them," said 14-year-old Al'a al-Attar.
His brothers, Ali, 15, and Nafiz, 16, described how when the three of them were being led through built-up areas in their home town of Attartra, the soldiers would order them to suddenly stop ‑ then fire their rifles over the brothers' shoulders and between their legs.
The use of "human shields" is prohibited under article 28 of the fourth Geneva convention, which states: "The presence of a protected person may not be used to render certain points or areas immune from military operations." Israel has ratified the convention and is therefore bound by it.
An Israeli internal army magazine left behind by the troops shows Nafiz at the beginning of his ordeal being led bound and blindfolded in a line of men before he was stripped of his clothes.
Another article in the magazine's online edition details a separate incident, titled: "For a week and a half they [Israeli soldiers]lived with a family of Palestinians whose home became their stronghold." In it an officer talks openly of using the house as a base for operations while keeping the family in a downstairs room.
"At the top floor of the house we have established an improvised operational room and soldiers' bedroom, we have opened firing positions and observation points in the three additional rooms," the officer was quoted as saying. "In addition, we have established another guarding position on the entrance door of the family home."
Though the officer claims the family stayed in the house out of choice, using their house as a base while civilians were on the premises could still be a violation of international law.
The Attar brothers' ordeal began on 5 January when Israeli troops entered the town of Attartra, 1.2 miles (2km) from the border with Israel, and began firing into their house. They were led away blindfolded and at gunpoint in single file as the gunfire carried on around them. At one point the boys were forced to march in front of and alongside Israeli tanks.
They were then forced to kneel in a makeshift Israeli encampment for three days and three nights as tanks fired off shells around them. Human rights groups believe they were held there to deter Palestinian fighters from attacking.
"After being here for a day and a half, they put barbed wire around us, then empty tank shells kept landing on us, a rock or shrapnel came flying toward us. We spent a further three days here, right here," said Nafiz.
After five days Ali and Al'a were untied, had their blindfolds removed and were released straight into a firefight. They came under attack from Israeli tanks and helicopters as they tried to find their way home through the ruins of their neighbourhood, the boys said.
Nafiz was not so lucky. He was taken to Israel where he was interrogated for three days and says he was beaten. Finally he was taken back into Gaza and released.
The boys' parents, who are ardent supporters of Fatah ‑ Hamas' political rivals ‑ cannot understand why they were taken.
The use of human shields was outlawed by Israel's supreme court in 2005 following several clearly identified incidents, but human rights groups insist the Israeli military continues to use civilians in this way, albeit less often.
In February 2007, Associated Press Television News released footage showing 24-year-old Palestinian Sameh Amira being used as a human shield by a group of Israeli soldiers in Nablus.
The Israeli army declined to be interviewed about the practice but said it gave strict orders to soldiers not to use civilians as human shields during this operation. In a written statement, it said that only Hamas had used human shields by attacking troops from within civilian areas. Hamas denied the claim, saying it would not endanger the lives of other Palestinians, but surveillance footage provided by Israel appears to show this.'
http://www.imemc.org/article/60434
I thought you couldnt see youtube? but since you apparently did, how did those videos make you feel? it would be nice if you can answer that and not cut and paste something about Israel.
o my bad. I didnt see Nok's reply. I'll respond in a minute. as for Byzine's response, he didnt have one. only cut and pasted an article. but how does that article make me feel? pissed off. I hate Israel for its treatment of Palestinian civilians.
now, why is my question so vague? it was actually YOU and Byzine who completely IGNORED my post. why? its a very direct question to some youtube videos I posted.
well, the man is holding the boy while ducking and running. how can you question he's not using him as a human shield?
since when do children (on their own) decide that they are ready to die for the cause?
1. you used a topic about an infant dying as a platform to shove pro-Israel propaganda at everyone reading this.
2. the videos posted were actually stupid. you think Hamas' leader was actually trying to say "we use human shields"? NoK was right in his translation.
LOL you people kill me. how is my post PRO-ISRAELI ??
again, children dont decide for themselves that they are ready to become human shields for the cause.
its great how you can take the words that come from his mouth and say, well no, "he didnt mean it that way" got it
This type of stuff has to stop. Someone has to extend a hand first.
I'm just sayin, its very convenient to interpret the meaning of what people say to make it fit however you'd like.
anyway, how are my posts about Hamas "PRO-Israeli"
whoever is doing whatever...the shit the op posted in the vid needs to end
I'm just wondering if outlaw gets equally upset about the way Hamas treats its children. apparently not. personally I find it sickening what both sides are doing. but in doing so, I'm somehow "pro-Israeli"
I said what you posted was pro-Israel propaganda, not that you were pro-Israeli (though I do think you most certainly and clearly are). There is a difference in the two, in that you may not be smart enough to realize that those videos are clearly trying to project a pro-Israel platform by demonizing Hamas. Considering that I think the video was bullshit, I called it propaganda.
I'm no true fan of Hamas, I'll tell you that. I think in terms of representation of the Palestinian people, eventually there will definitely have to be some change. However, I try to be as realistic and rational as possible. Consider the situation right now: Israel is brutally occupying them and treating them horribly (something you claim to agree with, I assume, when you say you are also against Israel). When they are treated so horribly, it is only normal and in accord with what has happened in any situation in history to retaliate. In such a time, when the original government, Fateh, not only seemed to be treating their own people horribly, but seemed to be working in accordance with the Israeli government, it is only natural for the Palestinians to shift support to the other major party who vows to retaliate against an occupying power. Now, see, the problem with you is that you seem to keep placing all this emphasis on how bad Hamas is (tactics that pro-Israelis use to shift attention from Israel's crimes). Not only does this distract people from the real issue, it is as if you are placing equal blame on "both sides," which I find damn fucking annoying. You can't blame both sides equally. There is only one side occupying the other. There is one side imprisoning the other. One side limiting the other's needed food, water, medicine, electricity, etc.
To ignore these obvious differences is why you get into arguments with Byrnzie. Because you say things like "yeah yeah i know, israel is bad, but so is hamas." Hamas is not even the issue. They said they'd be willing to accept a two-state solution, they said they'd be willing to stop rockets, and enter a complete truce with Israel should Israel withdraw to the '67 borders. The entire world supports this, jlew, do you? If you don't, why not? If you do, then why do you sit here wasting time yelling at Hamas, when the one person who could end the violence, Israel, refuses to withdraw to the '67 borders?
This post was longer than I expected, but whatever.
sigh. you just dont get it. just because something shows Hamas in a bad light, doesnt automatically make it pro-Israeli. Hamas has its own problems, which are completely INDEPENDENT of Israel. brainwashing children and dressing them in bombs is NOT "pro-Israeli propaganda", is sick and disgusting. but according to people like you and Byzine, its no "big deal", they are just "resisting".
and considering that you think the video is bullshit means absolutely nothing. I mean, who the fuck are you? no one.
its all comes down to the 1967 borders doesnt it. do I support them? I dont know. I do know a war was fought in 1967 and the borders changed. what those new borders should be, is in dispute. where I do think Israel is wrong, however, has been in the constant expanding of settlements in disputed land. that is wrong.
and BOTH sides are to blame for the problems. is it equal? no. but Hamas is absolutely part of the problem. they specifically target Israeli civilians. and this is where me, you and Byzine disagree. you both feel that Israelis living in "occupied" land are valid targets by Hamas militants. I very much strongly disagree. Civilians should never be targeted IMO. and Israel, on the other hand, will blatantly kill Palestinian civilians as well. so in my eyes, BOTH sides are wrong.
at this point, I dont not support Hamas or Israel. I dont think peace will happen while the current Israeli leadership is in place and Hamas is power. sadly, I think its going to a long time. but I could be wrong, hell, just today there was a meeting about it at the white house....but it wasn't a good meeting IMO.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20090518/pl_nm/us_israel_usa
maybe stupid conversations like the ones we can read here started this war. maybe an israeli told the palestinian (or viceversa) "hey moron, get the fuck out of my land!" several thousands of years ago.
i think this war will end when earth dies.
and nobody can pick a side, whos right and whos wrong. unless you have an interest on either side, or hate either side.
It certainly will NEVER end as long as the US back Israel with the millions od $$$ we blindly send them. Along with the propaganda that is done in US media to sell why we give so much to Israel.
Peace
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)