Boston Red Sox

Solat13 · October 2007

g under p wrote:

Ok I just thought of this, I need a new bumpersticker to add to the back of my truck and I was wondering if there's any Red Sox Nation stickers out there?

If not I'd like to add this RED SOX Domi-NATION to the back of my truck.

Peace

This should do the trick:

http://www.cafepress.com/buy/boston+sports/-/pv_design_prod/pg_1/p_storeid.35368090/pNo_35368090/id_9212573/opt_/fpt_/c_666/

g under p · October 2007

Solat13 wrote:

This should do the trick:

http://www.cafepress.com/buy/boston+sports/-/pv_design_prod/pg_1/p_storeid.35368090/pNo_35368090/id_9212573/opt_/fpt_/c_666/

THANKS, I've ordered it and I'll be one of the few down here proudly showing it on my truck.

Peace

bostonlou · October 2007

g under p wrote:

Ok I just thought of this, I need a new bumpersticker to add to the back of my truck and I was wondering if there's any Red Sox Nation stickers out there?

If not I'd like to add this RED SOX Domi-NATION to the back of my truck.

Peace

34 stickers but no love for Pearl Jam?

bostonlou · October 2007

g under p wrote:

THANKS, I've ordered it and I'll be one of the few down here proudly showing it on my truck.

Peace

should of just joined and got the official one

http://boston.redsox.mlb.com/bos/fan_forum/redsox_nation.jsp

although i think the nation thing is stupid

ryan198 · October 2007

Solat13 wrote:

I guess the whole 7th floor crew at the U was harmless college kids:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7th_Floor_Crew

and the Cowboys were the inspiration for the current Bengals:

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9C0DE2D61639F93BA15757C0A960958260&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=print

Did you not read what I wrote? I said I root for those team's knowing that they have pretty sick history's. I grew up in very upstate NY where we only got CBS (NFC channel at the time), and watched the Cowboys and Miami pretty much every week. The Brewers were my first World Series. I have always rooted for those teams, but, at the same time, I realize that they do some pretty fucked up shit. As I said in a previous post, this isn't about being smarter, or better, its about understanding and doing something about it. If you just want to be a fan and deny the history and current stuff going on when you root for your team, fine, if not I'd like to hear your arguments.

ryan198 · October 2007

WhiteMaleRat wrote:

Pedro was loved in Boston until he starting being a primadonna. It has nothing to do with racism. That's a bunch of bullshit - is Ortiz going through the same thing?

1. What was so primadonna about Pedro compared to Trot Nixon? Not much, according to most of my media interviews Trot was every bit as particular in the clubhouse with the way things ran as Pedro was. He just didn't get called a primadonna (the journalistic equivalent of being called gay according to one interview). Why was it, then that Pedro's masculinity got called into question, when Trot's didn't?

2. Who actually played when they were hurt?
Hmmm....Pedro Martinez had a torn labrum and has pitched with that for 6 years, Trot (on some very good accounts) roids up, hurts something every year and sits out every year.

3. Who was better? If you ever thought Trot was better than Pedro you were crazy. Pedro sitting the bench this year was more effective than Trot on the field.

4. Why do you compare Pedro to Ortiz when their personalities are not that similar? It might be better to compare Pedro Martinez to Coco Crisp and how he has been treated throughout the year. Used by the team to market RSN to minorities then booed by the 'real' fans when he struggled at the plate...his last play as a Sox CF may have been one of the best playoff catches in recent memory. On the flipside I didn't hear much booing of your 'little white hope' Padroia when he sucked, and he did. Further when his time as a good second basemen runs its course, as it does for all average hitting second basemen (lets face it, while he is not Mark Lemke, he will be kinda like Chuck Knoblauch or something), he will go out of town as a beloved character - never questioned for heart, determination, etc. All things that Coco Crisp is but doesn't get credit for...why is that? Same thing happened when Pedro threw a 3-hit (only one through the infield), 7 inning gem against a potent Cardinals offense, with a torn labrum, and all RSN could talk about was Paint Sock. This isn't bullshit, these are the little ways race/ethnicity continue to be played out in our society, and the Red Sox and their fans are certainly at the forefront of it.

ryan198 · October 2007

bostonlou wrote:

34 stickers but no love for Pearl Jam?

yeah seriously

bostonlou · October 2007

ryan198 wrote:

yeah seriously

3 sox stickers is kind of overkill

and personally i wouldn't flaunt the sox down in yankees country... probably get keyed or something

oh and as for you ryan198

hey how about tightening up your signature there sparky

takes up way too much space

we're glad you remember what shows you went to... honest

but how about putting them in the Biography section of your Profile?

jojo · October 2007

bostonlou wrote:

3 sox stickers is kind of overkill

and personally i wouldn't flaunt the sox down in yankees country... probably get keyed or something

oh and as for you ryan198

hey how about tightening up your signature there sparky

takes up way too much space

we're glad you remember what shows you went to... honest

but how about putting them in the Biography section of your Profile?

LOL

maybe i'll put all my shows in my sig to

is a 22 line sig over kill?

Solat13 · October 2007

jojo wrote:

LOL

maybe i'll put all my shows in my sig to

is a 22 line sig over kill?

Nah, it's not overkill. I may have to list part of my shows on sig. I ran out of room in my bio on my profile.

WhiteMaleRat · October 2007

ryan198 wrote:

1. What was so primadonna about Pedro compared to Trot Nixon? Not much, according to most of my media interviews Trot was every bit as particular in the clubhouse with the way things ran as Pedro was. He just didn't get called a primadonna (the journalistic equivalent of being called gay according to one interview). Why was it, then that Pedro's masculinity got called into question, when Trot's didn't?

2. Who actually played when they were hurt?
Hmmm....Pedro Martinez had a torn labrum and has pitched with that for 6 years, Trot (on some very good accounts) roids up, hurts something every year and sits out every year.

3. Who was better? If you ever thought Trot was better than Pedro you were crazy. Pedro sitting the bench this year was more effective than Trot on the field.

4. Why do you compare Pedro to Ortiz when their personalities are not that similar? It might be better to compare Pedro Martinez to Coco Crisp and how he has been treated throughout the year. Used by the team to market RSN to minorities then booed by the 'real' fans when he struggled at the plate...his last play as a Sox CF may have been one of the best playoff catches in recent memory. On the flipside I didn't hear much booing of your 'little white hope' Padroia when he sucked, and he did. Further when his time as a good second basemen runs its course, as it does for all average hitting second basemen (lets face it, while he is not Mark Lemke, he will be kinda like Chuck Knoblauch or something), he will go out of town as a beloved character - never questioned for heart, determination, etc. All things that Coco Crisp is but doesn't get credit for...why is that? Same thing happened when Pedro threw a 3-hit (only one through the infield), 7 inning gem against a potent Cardinals offense, with a torn labrum, and all RSN could talk about was Paint Sock. This isn't bullshit, these are the little ways race/ethnicity continue to be played out in our society, and the Red Sox and their fans are certainly at the forefront of it.

Ortiz is loved because he's a great person, earns his pay, and has played well - and always says the right thing - and he's DOMINICAN. The same was true for Luis Tiant in the 70's.

Trot Nixon never had the huge contract - was often criticized as injury prone and underachieving - never lived up to hype he had as a prospect - he was billed untradeable as a prospect - he was let go last year - and he's WHITE.

Coco has been a bust at the plate - but great in the field. JD Drew has been bashed all year - despite that his child was in a body cast and his wife was pregnant. Our fans have no sympathy for any player who does not live up to their contract.

Pedroia is SPANISH!

Pedro bitched a lot for someone who is getting paid 18 mill. Look up the selfish quotes. That didn't happen until after his 1st contract ended, he resigned at least once, and let go the 2nd time - see what he said then. Sox were worried about his health and he bitched. Mets are taking the heat now on his bloated contract.

Look at Manny despite his contract and Mannisms - he's still loved because he has been a machine.

You're way off basis with this bullshit. Things are not perfect in Boston, but times have changed - it is no worse than any other big city in the US.

ryan198 · October 2007

bostonlou wrote:

3 sox stickers is kind of overkill

and personally i wouldn't flaunt the sox down in yankees country... probably get keyed or something

oh and as for you ryan198

hey how about tightening up your signature there sparky

takes up way too much space

we're glad you remember what shows you went to... honest

but how about putting them in the Biography section of your Profile?

fair enough...biography section eh? i guess i should look into that. thanks for the heads up.

ryan198 · October 2007

WhiteMaleRat wrote:

Ortiz is loved because he's a great person, earns his pay, and has played well - and always says the right thing - and he's DOMINICAN. The same was true for Luis Tiant in the 70's.

Trot Nixon never had the huge contract - was often criticized as injury prone and underachieving - never lived up to hype he had as a prospect - he was billed untradeable as a prospect - he was let go last year - and he's WHITE.

Coco has been a bust at the plate - but great in the field. JD Drew has been bashed all year - despite that his child was in a body cast and his wife was pregnant. Our fans have no sympathy for any player who does not live up to their contract.

Pedroia is SPANISH!

Pedro bitched a lot for someone who is getting paid 18 mill. Look up the selfish quotes. That didn't happen until after his 1st contract ended, he resigned at least once, and let go the 2nd time - see what he said then. Sox were worried about his health and he bitched. Mets are taking the heat now on his bloated contract.

Look at Manny despite his contract and Mannisms - he's still loved because he has been a machine.

You're way off basis with this bullshit. Things are not perfect in Boston, but times have changed - it is no worse than any other big city in the US.

Pedroia is from Woodland, CA, and there is no mention of him being Spanish (Mexican perhaps?) in places I have been looking...doesn't mean I'm right, just can't find it right now. Pedro first started getting shit because he spoke out against the (mostly white) Boston media, and when he started saying stuff about Danny Almonte in '01. I know what Pedro said in '04, and I also know what Sox management said then as well. Trot didn't get the same hatred from management and fans as Pedro did, he just didn't, if you were in the crowd for games when Trot came to play people would go wild for him and he was an ok RF who never had his spot challenged. Fans loved Pedro for what he did on the field, hated him for what he did and said off the field.

Manny, Ortiz, and Tiant are way different than Pedro (except Manny when he goes home to the DR), because they all play the "happy to be here" Dominican's grateful to America and all it has to offer. Pedro understood that the US was f-ing his country over and wasn't afraid to say it, and THAT is why he initially got heat (kinda like a certain lead singer of a band from Seattle). Then all the quirks Pedro had, which before were endearing and made him funny, made him a know it all primadonna for people to get mad at. Nevermind that he donated his body to the team.

Yes, you are correct, Boston is better now than before, you don't have white people stabbing black people with American flags, or white lawyers killing their wife and unborn child and blaming it on a black man, or white militant behavior around busing, but if you listen to players like Torri Hunter, and Gary Matthews Jr. its the only place where you still hear the "N-word" from the stands. Further the Red Sox are the highest profile team in baseball right now, they have the most road fans, they are from a city that is known for being liberal, and they will start to get more critical evaluations as they gain in popularity.

jimed14 · October 2007

ryan198 wrote:

but if you listen to players like Torri Hunter, .

if you're going to use him in your dissertation ... better learn to spell his name ... it's Torii ... not Torri (only mention it because it's the 2nd time you've done it).

jojo · October 2007

ryan198 wrote:

Not really, it's more to think with and argue with people who have the most invested in what I am currently doing. Plus its a fun break. If you don't want to think about what rooting for the Red Sox means, then don't participate. If you want to say "yahoo the Red Sox won" then fine, in fact, if the Brewers won, or the Cowboys won, or the "U" won I'd do the same, but it wouldn't stop me from wondering what rooting for them meant - others seem to be participating while celebrating...sorry if that upsets you.

Further, I often find that more than overt racism/sexism/classism, etc. people get more frustrated with the idea that their team's fan base represents some of the worst 'white privilege' has to offer. I'd argue that rather than get frustrated about it, understand it, accept it, and work to get other people to understand it. Look, Pedro Martinez is my favorite player ever to play baseball, and it bothered me to see the way he was treated in Boston especially later in his career, so I'm writing my dissertation about it. It's better than just complaining correct?

It's baseball

and don't you think you are sterotyping a whole lot of people based on one small part of who they are it's the same as "racism/sexism/classism"

ryan198 · October 2007

jimed14 wrote:

if you're going to use him in your dissertation ... better learn to spell his name ... it's Torii ... not Torri (only mention it because it's the 2nd time you've done it).

you are correct...i am terrible with spelling and grammar, but it is something i need to have right when i am actually writing the thing. in my proposal i spelled drew barrymore (the porn star) instead of drew berrymore (the actress), and -interstingly- one of my male professors caught it.

ryan198 · October 2007

jojo wrote:

It's baseball

and don't you think you are sterotyping a whole lot of people based on one small part of who they are it's the same as "racism/sexism/classism"

1. Yes it is baseball a sport which is lauded for teaching good American 'values' to young and old alike. I argue that some of these values are not so good.
2. For some people Red Sox Nation is more than a small part of who they are.
3. Even if it is a small part of who these people are it still is part of the learning process of everyday life, and is important in teaching dominant/subversive value systems and behaviors in our society.
4. You are only getting a small part of my argument, which is still formulating at present because what I am critiquing is the Red Sox Nation imagined community in all its forms (Movies, Internet, TV, 'lived' experience). I would be happy to PM what I am presenting on Friday and/or other stuff I've written and worked on to this point to those that are interested.

Solat13 · October 2007

ryan198 wrote:

Yes, you are correct, Boston is better now than before, you don't have white people stabbing black people with American flags, or white lawyers killing their wife and unborn child and blaming it on a black man, or white militant behavior around busing, but if you listen to players like Torri Hunter, and Gary Matthews Jr. its the only place where you still hear the "N-word" from the stands. Further the Red Sox are the highest profile team in baseball right now, they have the most road fans, they are from a city that is known for being liberal, and they will start to get more critical evaluations as they gain in popularity.

Not to say this is a good thing, but people use the N word in Phillies games all the time - especially when Ryan Howard breaks the all time strike out record or when Tom Gordon blows a save.

And didn't an umpire use the n word and that is what caused Milton Bradley to go beserk and try to punch him which led to Bud Black tacking him and tearing his acl?

rearviewmiror · October 2007

ryan198 wrote:

1. What was so primadonna about Pedro compared to Trot Nixon? Not much, according to most of my media interviews Trot was every bit as particular in the clubhouse with the way things ran as Pedro was. He just didn't get called a primadonna (the journalistic equivalent of being called gay according to one interview). Why was it, then that Pedro's masculinity got called into question, when Trot's didn't?

2. Who actually played when they were hurt?
Hmmm....Pedro Martinez had a torn labrum and has pitched with that for 6 years, Trot (on some very good accounts) roids up, hurts something every year and sits out every year.

3. Who was better? If you ever thought Trot was better than Pedro you were crazy. Pedro sitting the bench this year was more effective than Trot on the field.

4. Why do you compare Pedro to Ortiz when their personalities are not that similar? It might be better to compare Pedro Martinez to Coco Crisp and how he has been treated throughout the year. Used by the team to market RSN to minorities then booed by the 'real' fans when he struggled at the plate...his last play as a Sox CF may have been one of the best playoff catches in recent memory. On the flipside I didn't hear much booing of your 'little white hope' Padroia when he sucked, and he did. Further when his time as a good second basemen runs its course, as it does for all average hitting second basemen (lets face it, while he is not Mark Lemke, he will be kinda like Chuck Knoblauch or something), he will go out of town as a beloved character - never questioned for heart, determination, etc. All things that Coco Crisp is but doesn't get credit for...why is that? Same thing happened when Pedro threw a 3-hit (only one through the infield), 7 inning gem against a potent Cardinals offense, with a torn labrum, and all RSN could talk about was Paint Sock. This isn't bullshit, these are the little ways race/ethnicity continue to be played out in our society, and the Red Sox and their fans are certainly at the forefront of it.

You're assuming we all bought into the Trot Nixon thing. I respected him, but was glad to see the back of him. I can't stand the dirtdog website and neither can many people here in Boston. it caters to the stupid that exist in any fanbase. I realize it's a racist thing to have a term "dirtdog". I don't like it at all, but don't bash Pedroia. he's one of my favorites and I was there when he was getting booed in late April.

Sure Pedro played hurt, but he also refused surgery fearing it would end his career. Don't cherry pick arguments like that. Especially pointing out we all loved Schill's red sock. I mean C'mon he gave up millions of dollars by shortening his career and effectiveness for our title chance in 04. Of course we were talking about it. It was well known Pedro was hurt and that he gutted it out. It's also well known that he has a huge heart like in 99 when he came out of the bullpen and shutdown the Indians while hurt. Pedro got a massive reaction when he came back with the mets. All of it positive.

As far as coco goes, you're cherry picking arguments again. Lugo is a minority and had a bad year too but people never got on him like they did coco. It's just a fan's thing and much of it is driven by the media. He was a pitchman by the marketing dept, so he was bound to be in for it if he didn't produce. Maybe the PR department needs to think about that in the future. However that has happened to players of all color everywhere before.Talk about how the media has it's favorites and you may be on to something. They might be racist, I'd definitely go along with that.

As far as the fan base? No more than any other I'd say. I grew up in the South, I've seen it up close and personal, and there isn;t a mass conspiracy here amongst fans.

bostonlou · October 2007

ryan198 wrote:

fair enough...biography section eh? i guess i should look into that. thanks for the heads up.

hey thanks man... appreciate the effort

now hopefully jimed14 can follow suit

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