Tipping in the service industry

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  • haffajappa
    haffajappa British Columbia Posts: 5,955
    Vedderlution_Baby! wrote:
    I believe the min wage is 7 something in the US but servers make anywhere between 2-4 dollars an hour because the government assumes that they'll make up the difference with tips.


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._state_minimum_wages

    In florida it's 6.79 and 3.77 for tipped employees, although I was making 3.65
    Oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooookkkkkaaaaaaaay...

    So then my argument doesn't stand in the US.

    In Canada there is no such thing as different min. wage for tipped employees.
    (At least I don't think there is...)

    No wonder there is the attitude of it being expected....

    I retract my argument towards the Americans in this thread
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  • LONGRD
    LONGRD Posts: 6,036
    15% of the total is my rule of thumb for restaurants.
    or $1-$3 for (2)barbers, (1)bartenders, (3)delivery drivers.
    PJ- 04/29/2003.06/24,25,27,28,30/2008.10/27,28,30,31/2009
    EV- 08/09,10/2008.06/08,09/2009
  • catefrances
    catefrances Posts: 29,003
    Motown322 wrote:
    These threads are usually good for finding out who the cheap fucks are... :D

    I agree: if you can't afford to properly tip your bartender (a dollar per drink at least, IMO), stay home and drink.

    fuck off!

    i drink when i see bands. i dont always have it within my budget to tip the barstaff.
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  • haffajappa
    haffajappa British Columbia Posts: 5,955
    catefrances wrote:
    fuck off!

    i drink when i see bands. i dont always have it within my budget to tip the barstaff.
    You're from Oz yah?
    Us royal countries aren't with the same outlook i think...

    I sort of understand now why a lot of people have been giving me the same "stay home" attitude when I say that it's not within my budget... because I think most of them (sorry for the assumption :o) are from the US... and, upon further information, (thank you, vedderlution_baby!) there is some sort of weird tipping wage that actually does mean that servers get paid dirt cheap.

    And I don't think they realise (sorry again, for the assumption :)) that not everywhere is like that when it comes to the service industry....
    live pearl jam is best pearl jam
  • catefrances
    catefrances Posts: 29,003
    doin'the-evolution wrote:
    You're from Oz yah?
    Us royal countries aren't with the same outlook i think...

    I sort of understand now why a lot of people have been giving me the same "stay home" attitude when I say that it's not within my budget... because I think most of them (sorry for the assumption :o) are from the US... and, upon further information, (thank you, vedderlution_baby!) there is some sort of weird tipping wage that actually does mean that servers get paid dirt cheap.

    And I don't think they realise (sorry again, for the assumption :)) that not everywhere is like that when it comes to the service industry....

    yeah im from oz.

    and i do tip... when i can afford it.

    i dont think that just cause i have a lack of funds in excess of what i can spend i should stay home. that to me is an arrogant attitude.
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  • vedder_soup
    vedder_soup Posts: 5,861
    it is a different culture here anyway, not like the US.

    i will tip at resturaunts, and sometimes at bars just leave them the change, but we have workplace laws here which state what the minimum wage can be, and it is a lot more than $2 or $3 an hour, and having the staff rely on tips to make a crust!

    the bar staff here will still serve you if you don't tip them!
    2003 - Sydney x3,
    2006 - Reading Festival,
    2007 - Katowice, London, Nijmegen, Rock Werchter,
    2008 - MSG x2, Hartford, Mansfield x2, Beacon Theater,
    2009 - Melbourne, Sydney,
    2010 - I watched it go to fire!
    2011 - EV Brisbane x3, Newcastle, Sydney x3,
    2012 - Manchester x 2, Amsterdam x2, Prague, Berlin x2, Stockholm, Oslo, Copenhagen,
    2014 - Sydney, EV Sydney x3

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  • haffajappa
    haffajappa British Columbia Posts: 5,955
    catefrances wrote:
    yeah im from oz.

    and i do tip... when i can afford it.

    i dont think that just cause i have a lack of funds in excess of what i can spend i should stay home. that to me is an arrogant attitude.
    i agree, and thank you for assuring me i'm not the only one who thought this was arrogant.
    I tip when the service is good. (since that is what is meant by tip)

    i really think that this is a cultural thing.
    in some asian countries, you don't tip AT ALL.
    in north america, it's beginning to be that you tip NO MATTER WHAT.

    I've had instances when I've left the tip in cash on the table, and paid by debit card at the hostess booth, and then got a very dirty look when (it seems as though) I haven't left a tip because I press 'no tip' on the keypad. It's the attitude, really... that starts to frustrate me.
    live pearl jam is best pearl jam
  • haffajappa
    haffajappa British Columbia Posts: 5,955
    vedder_soup wrote:
    it is a different culture here anyway, not like the US.

    i will tip at resturaunts, and sometimes at bars just leave them the change, but we have workplace laws here which state what the minimum wage can be, and it is a lot more than $2 or $3 an hour, and having the staff rely on tips to make a crust!

    the bar staff here will still serve you if you don't tip them!
    omg, we both posted a culture argument at the same time.

    you and i must be well seasoned travelers to experience such a multitude of different cultures ;)
    live pearl jam is best pearl jam
  • vedder_soup
    vedder_soup Posts: 5,861
    doin'the-evolution wrote:
    omg, we both posted a culture argument at the same time.

    you and i must be well seasoned travelers to experience such a multitude of different cultures ;)

    you however have much more experience dealing with this whole tipping thing being from the north american continent!

    do you think it is different in places like Asia and Europe? What is it like in Canada?

    I will tip if the service is good, or sometimes just to get rid of coins!

    i found it a bit funny throwing another $ over each time somebody pours me a beer!
    2003 - Sydney x3,
    2006 - Reading Festival,
    2007 - Katowice, London, Nijmegen, Rock Werchter,
    2008 - MSG x2, Hartford, Mansfield x2, Beacon Theater,
    2009 - Melbourne, Sydney,
    2010 - I watched it go to fire!
    2011 - EV Brisbane x3, Newcastle, Sydney x3,
    2012 - Manchester x 2, Amsterdam x2, Prague, Berlin x2, Stockholm, Oslo, Copenhagen,
    2014 - Sydney, EV Sydney x3

    I wave to all my Friends... Yeah!
  • catefrances
    catefrances Posts: 29,003
    vedder_soup wrote:
    ...
    i found it a bit funny throwing another $ over each time somebody pours me a beer!

    especially considering all those extra tip dollars could easily add up to at least 3 more beers that dont get drank by you. :D
    hear my name
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  • vedder_soup
    vedder_soup Posts: 5,861
    catefrances wrote:
    especially considering all those extra tip dollars could easily add up to at least 3 more beers that dont get drank by you. :D

    exactly!
    2003 - Sydney x3,
    2006 - Reading Festival,
    2007 - Katowice, London, Nijmegen, Rock Werchter,
    2008 - MSG x2, Hartford, Mansfield x2, Beacon Theater,
    2009 - Melbourne, Sydney,
    2010 - I watched it go to fire!
    2011 - EV Brisbane x3, Newcastle, Sydney x3,
    2012 - Manchester x 2, Amsterdam x2, Prague, Berlin x2, Stockholm, Oslo, Copenhagen,
    2014 - Sydney, EV Sydney x3

    I wave to all my Friends... Yeah!
  • catefrances
    catefrances Posts: 29,003
    vedder_soup wrote:
    exactly!

    and that reminds me... you still owe me a drink. :p:D
    hear my name
    take a good look
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    hold my hand
    lie beside me
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  • haffajappa
    haffajappa British Columbia Posts: 5,955
    vedder_soup wrote:
    you however have much more experience dealing with this whole tipping thing being from the north american continent!

    do you think it is different in places like Asia and Europe? What is it like in Canada?

    I will tip if the service is good, or sometimes just to get rid of coins!

    i found it a bit funny throwing another $ over each time somebody pours me a beer!
    well generally our min. wage is higher in canada than it is in the US.... which i already knew. but i didn't know that min. wage for workers is different in the service industry where you get tips - thats why i now see why everyone has this attitude of, these people work for less, so you should tip when you eat out, otherwise don't go out.

    now I kind of understand it.

    as for Canada, i don't particularly like that argument because retail industry's min. wage is the same as the food industry's min. wage - so why should someone who busts their ass for needy customers be treated differently as someone who busts their ass for needy patrons? obviously i see the differences in both industries... but here is the scenario i don't get:
    Retail worker decides to go out for dinner on a Friday night. Said worker is at a restaurant, where restaurant server is terrible. Retail worker opts not to tip - despite popular opinion that tipping is now manditory - and now retail worker is "cheap".
    Now, why should minimum wage person A have to give minimum wage person B extra money?

    BECAUSE: This is the adopted attitude in North America.
    And it's stupid.

    I think I should bold it this time: I tip if the service is good, because that is what the purpose of tipping is.
    I DON'T TIP solely on the premise that EVERYONE should tip EVEN if the service is shit. Maybe when I get a good job, and make a HIGHER wage than the people who are serving me, then I won't think twice about throwing away money regardless of what service i'm getting.

    In Japan you don't tip. In fact, one time my mom left a tip and the server came running after her down the street saying she forgot her money HAHA.

    It's a cultural thing... kind of like.... McDonalds portions and walking distances and geographical knowledge and... you get what i mean.
    live pearl jam is best pearl jam
  • EquallyWorthless
    EquallyWorthless Posts: 3,993
    Vedderlution_Baby! wrote:
    If you expect good service at a restaurant you frequent, then yea, it is.


    That is bullshit, it is an north american thing to tip 20% on a bill. If i go to a restaurant 5 times, get great service 4 times and shitty service on the 5th i should still tip as well on the 5th time? Thats what youre saying? based on the previous times experience? and so if i dont tip well that gives servers a right to give me shitty service? is that what youre saying? so its guaranteed? so they can just phone it in and treat me like shit because they expect a tip? FUCK THAT. i have worked in the restaurant industry for 10 years and that is why servers expect it even if they dont do anything and give you shitty service because its a cultural stigma. Its the exact attitude that you have that makes it what it is. let me guess youre a server and think you "deserve" it no matter how good or bad a job you do?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Em5iFD5M_eU

    "Tipping varies among cultures and by service industry. Though by definition a tip is never legally required, and its amount is at the discretion of the person being served, in some circumstances failing to give an adequate tip when one is expected may be considered very miserly, a violation of etiquette, or unethical. In some other cultures or situations, giving a tip is not expected and offering one would be considered condescending or demeaning. In Japan, for example, tipping is considered an insult both to the owner of the establishment and to the server."

    Although someone who lives by the rule that the American way is the right way would never get this.

    By the way just to clarify, there is 3 groups of tipping for myself that I stick, If I get great service, the server will get a great tip, If I get decent service(IE server didnt really have to do much or they are busy and it is understandable) I will give just a regular tip 10-15% but if I get terrible service I am not going to tip.
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  • haffajappa
    haffajappa British Columbia Posts: 5,955
    EquallyWorthless wrote:
    That is bullshit, it is an north american thing to tip 20% on a bill. If i go to a restaurant 5 times, get great service 4 times and shitty service on the 5th i should still tip as well on the 5th time? Thats what youre saying? based on the previous times experience? and so if i dont tip well that gives servers a right to give me shitty service? is that what youre saying? so its guaranteed? so they can just phone it in and treat me like shit because they expect a tip? FUCK THAT. i have worked in the restaurant industry for 10 years and that is why servers expect it even if they dont do anything and give you shitty service because its a cultural stigma. Its the exact attitude that you have that makes it what it is. let me guess youre a server and think you "deserve" it no matter how good or bad a job you do?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Em5iFD5M_eU

    "Tipping varies among cultures and by service industry. Though by definition a tip is never legally required, and its amount is at the discretion of the person being served, in some circumstances failing to give an adequate tip when one is expected may be considered very miserly, a violation of etiquette, or unethical. In some other cultures or situations, giving a tip is not expected and offering one would be considered condescending or demeaning. In Japan, for example, tipping is considered an insult both to the owner of the establishment and to the server."

    Although someone who lives by the rule that the American way is the right way would never get this.

    From what I understand from talking to europeans and being in europe, if your in Uni its generally not expected of you to tip.

    The japan thing i knew already (for obvious reasons)

    I'm still kinda shocked that servers make 3 something as a min. wage. So, in that perspective, I now see where some people are coming from.

    Still think its a bit brash to say, tip or stay home.
    It is most definitely a cultural thing.
    live pearl jam is best pearl jam
  • EquallyWorthless
    EquallyWorthless Posts: 3,993
    doin'the-evolution wrote:
    From what I understand from talking to europeans and being in europe, if your in Uni its generally not expected of you to tip.

    The japan thing i knew already (for obvious reasons)

    I'm still kinda shocked that servers make 3 something as a min. wage. So, in that perspective, I now see where some people are coming from.

    Still think its a bit brash to say, tip or stay home.
    It is most definitely a cultural thing.


    Yeah sorry, restaurants are fer fancy rich folk.
    {if (work != 0) {
    work = work + 1;
    sleep = sleep - work * 10;}
    else if (work >= 0) {
    reality.equals(false);
    work = work +1;
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    return 0;}
  • haffajappa
    haffajappa British Columbia Posts: 5,955
    EquallyWorthless wrote:
    Yeah sorry, restaurants are fer fancy rich folk.

    Hahaha, my mistake.
    I'll stay home and eat my udon noodles, then.
    live pearl jam is best pearl jam
  • Vedderlution_Baby
    Vedderlution_Baby Posts: 2,535
    EquallyWorthless wrote:
    That is bullshit, it is an north american thing to tip 20% on a bill. If i go to a restaurant 5 times, get great service 4 times and shitty service on the 5th i should still tip as well on the 5th time? Thats what youre saying? based on the previous times experience? and so if i dont tip well that gives servers a right to give me shitty service? is that what youre saying? so its guaranteed? so they can just phone it in and treat me like shit because they expect a tip? FUCK THAT. i have worked in the restaurant industry for 10 years and that is why servers expect it even if they dont do anything and give you shitty service because its a cultural stigma. Its the exact attitude that you have that makes it what it is. let me guess youre a server and think you "deserve" it no matter how good or bad a job you do?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Em5iFD5M_eU

    "Tipping varies among cultures and by service industry. Though by definition a tip is never legally required, and its amount is at the discretion of the person being served, in some circumstances failing to give an adequate tip when one is expected may be considered very miserly, a violation of etiquette, or unethical. In some other cultures or situations, giving a tip is not expected and offering one would be considered condescending or demeaning. In Japan, for example, tipping is considered an insult both to the owner of the establishment and to the server."

    Although someone who lives by the rule that the American way is the right way would never get this.

    By the way just to clarify, there is 3 groups of tipping for myself that I stick, If I get great service, the server will get a great tip, If I get decent service(IE server didnt really have to do much or they are busy and it is understandable) I will give just a regular tip 10-15% but if I get terrible service I am not going to tip.


    No, that's not what I said. I meant that if you want to keep having good service at a restaurant that you frequent, then you need to tip the proper amount. Because if you go in there and tip shitty every time, no matter what kind of service it is, then you're in for a bad service the next time you go in. Servers know better than anyone else that sometimes the service is horrible and that it's usually from the servers who expect tips no matter what that have the shittiest service out there. The good servers know that subpar and bad service isn't going to get tips.And more often than not, servers have higher expectations from restaurant staff when they become the customers.

    The people that are most vocal about getting low tips are the people who are also the worst servers. They don't know how to deal with people and they have that "I should get tipped no matter what".

    One time I was working the section beside this cancer of a person who would constantly bitch about their tips. One time I noticed the people at his table were low on drinks, didn't have any chips, and were giving the "table in distress" look. I went over, refilled their chips and drinks and asked if I could do anything else for them. I ended up having to get them to-go boxes and have Cancer give them their check. They gave him a dollar or two but when they walked past me laid a five on my table and thanked me for taking care of them even though their weren't my table. I apologized for the server and asked them to come in again because if even if I had to serve them myself, I would make sure they got exceptional service. Guess what was happening when I got back into the kitchen. Cancer was pissed off and cussing because of his shitty tip.

    I don't expect people to reward service that isn't up to par and is making their night less enjoyable and stressful. I do expect that if they live in the US that and they go to a full service restaurant that they tip the proper amount for good service and not stiff the people working their asses for them.
  • EquallyWorthless
    EquallyWorthless Posts: 3,993
    Vedderlution_Baby! wrote:
    And by the way, I don't give a fuck about how people tip or don't tip in Japan. I don't live in fucking Japan. I've never fucking been to Japan and I've definitely never eaten at a fucking restaurant in Japan. If I ever find myself going on a trip to Japan, then I'll look into it. Until then, I don't give a fuck.

    Well you were bang on until this ignorant statement.
    {if (work != 0) {
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    else if (work >= 0) {
    reality.equals(false);
    work = work +1;
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    return 0;}
  • haffajappa
    haffajappa British Columbia Posts: 5,955
    Vedderlution_Baby! wrote:
    No, that's not what I said. I meant that if you want to keep having good service at a restaurant that you frequent, then you need to tip the proper amount. Because if you go in there and tip shitty every time, no matter what kind of service it is, then you're in for a bad service the next time you go in. Servers know better than anyone else that sometimes the service is horrible and that it's usually from the servers who expect tips no matter what that have the shittiest service out there. The good servers know that subpar and bad service isn't going to get tips.And more often than not, servers have higher expectations from restaurant staff when they become the customers.

    The people that are most vocal about getting low tips are the people who are also the worst servers. They don't know how to deal with people and they have that "I should get tipped no matter what".

    One time I was working the section beside this cancer of a person who would constantly bitch about their tips. One time I noticed the people at his table were low on drinks, didn't have any chips, and were giving the "table in distress" look. I went over, refilled their chips and drinks and asked if I could do anything else for them. I ended up having to get them to-go boxes and have Cancer give them their check. They gave him a dollar or two but when they walked past me laid a five on my table and thanked me for taking care of them even though their weren't my table. I apologized for the server and asked them to come in again because if even if I had to serve them myself, I would make sure they got exceptional service. Guess what was happening when I got back into the kitchen. Cancer was pissed off and cussing because of his shitty tip.

    I don't expect people to reward service that isn't up to par and is making their night less enjoyable and stressful. I do expect that if they live in the US that and they go to a full service restaurant that they tip the proper amount for good service and not stiff the people working their asses for them.


    And by the way, I don't give a fuck about how people tip or don't tip in Japan. I don't live in fucking Japan. I've never fucking been to Japan and I've definitely never eaten at a fucking restaurant in Japan. If I ever find myself going on a trip to Japan, then I'll look into it. Until then, I don't give a fuck.

    while i agree with your statements...
    then i only have to reply to the last paragraph as this:

    i "don't give a fuck" to you americans who think that one should manditory tip or stay home.

    the japan thing was an example, and I'll make the assumption that you're a open-minded, intelligent enough person to understand that. it was an example for those who have brought up the, "tip or stay home" argument, that maybe the statements made by those people who call those of us who are selective about tipping "cheap"... should actually have been "in america.... you should..." (as you have so intelligently done in the second to last paragraph). because really, some of us who are selective about the whole tipping thing in this thread so far haven't been Americans - and we're just pointing out its a cultural thing (and using Japan as an example).

    unless you didn't know, people from all over the planet post here. :)
    live pearl jam is best pearl jam

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