Mall Shooting

dunkman wrote:

there is huge fundamental differences between Europe and the States/Can

i.e. if i lived in that US and came home to find someone shagging my wife i'd go out and buy a gun and shoot him in the face and cock... i live here and the same thing happens i'd have to join a gun club (of which there are none i know of around me?) then after being vetoed to join by a 5 man committee i'd then have to write to the Police asking for a gun licence and the reason why i would need one... and since i have a criminal record (albeit expired) they would reject me.. so by the time all my anger has dissipated i wouldnt have killed that guy.


as Helen said.. sure there are guns in every country... its just SOOOO much easier to get one in a country that has them under every pillow incase their government tries to do something bad to them... and as Hells said.. 33 years, i know bad people, i know bad areas, i know bad pubs... but i would not be able to get a gun if i wanted one.. and no-one 3000 miles away in the US telling me otherwise is going to persuade me... it just wouldnt happen.

I love the way, no one here takes me seriously...

...you forgot the part about having to make a doctors appointment and then having to wait a couple of days to see them and then being examined and given the ok by him/her.

Rygar wrote:

No one is disagreeing that it is easier to accomplish in NA.
But there aren't guns under every pillow in Canada. To get a gun (legally) here there's paper work and procedure probably similar to yours in many ways.

Human nature remains the same, however, and anywhere that someone CAN make money from illegal activity, they will. Person A sells drugs, and everyone knows cause everyone smokes 'em, and Person B sells guns, and not everyone knows, cause not everyone is mind fucked enough to go on a shooting rampage.

It's hard for people to think they'd be able to get a gun, cause most of us aren't looking to go murder people. If your brain was f#%$ to the point that you wanted to kill someone, you could get a gun.
If you can't get one from shady people, you can steal one from it's legal owner.

but thing is over here... there are STILL killings... husband's kill wives every few months... or their entire families for that matter... but not one has been done with a gun that wasn't gang related. Gangs here have guns for their own uses, they don't sell them... they don't want them in the hands of other gangs and they also don't want to sell them to unhinged, slightly insane members of the general public... because that WILL end up somehow in the media when they kill somebody. If the person who used the gun doesn't kill themselves, they WILL tell the guards where they got it... so they're only fucking things up for themselves.

And I said in the coke thread that the line from drug import to the average person is extremely long. If I want drugs, I buy from a friend, who bought from a friend, who bought from a friend, who bought from an aquaintance, who bought from a friend who MAY have bought from somebody who knows one of the dealers. I wouldn't go through the same route to get a gun cos then too many people know... that would just be stupid... somebody along the line would say 'nah, I'm not getting involved in that stuff'. I don't know where exactly the drugs my friends get come from... wouldn't have a clue. They don't even know... nor do their suppliers... get where I'm coming from?

Heineken Helen wrote:

Nope... cos in order to get a gun here, you have to have proof that it's going to be held in a safe and secure lockup. Not so easy to nick.

That's the same over here.

Heineken Helen wrote:

But people stick to it here... so it's quite hard to steal a gun. Are you seeing where I'm coming from though now? We do live in completely different worlds gun wise... even our police don't carry guns... just detectives. It's pretty much only the gangs who have them.

I see exactly where you're coming from, but I don't agree that it is impossible for future murderers to get guns there.
People generally stick to it here, as well, but it isn't enough.

Rygar wrote:

I see exactly where you're coming from, but I don't agree that it is impossible for future murderers to get guns there.
People generally stick to it here, as well, but it isn't enough.

but it is HERE... is what I'm telling you. What you're talking about does NOT go on here. Sure everything's POSSIBLE. We can't talk about what's going to happen in the future cos nobody can predict that... what I'm saying is that right now, in the past and in the forseeable future, in Ireland if a generally sane and straight person goes off the rails they can NOT get their hands on a gun. It really is that simple over here... note, I'm not commenting on what goes on over there, I'm taking your word and the headlines but other than that I can't comment cos I simply don't know... I DO know what goes on in my own country though

Heineken Helen wrote:

but it is HERE... is what I'm telling you. What you're talking about does NOT go on here. Sure everything's POSSIBLE. We can't talk about what's going to happen in the future cos nobody can predict that... what I'm saying is that right now, in the past and in the forseeable future, in Ireland if a generally sane and straight person goes off the rails they can NOT get their hands on a gun. It really is that simple over here... note, I'm not commenting on what goes on over there, I'm taking your word and the headlines but other than that I can't comment cos I simply don't know... I DO know what goes on in my own country though

I understand what you're saying, and respect your opinion (and no, I don't live there, so you got that one too).
I have a very pessimistic view of the human race, so to me it isn't that simple and I guess I can't accept that it would be (anywhere).

Our lock-up laws are pretty strict on legal weapons but expecting a lock on a trigger and cabinet to keep a criminal out is laughable.

Heineken Helen wrote:

don't worry, nobody's assuming they're the same country we're talking about a few different countries here though... rygar has said that there ARE shootings in Canada and that a regular person could get their hands on a gun if they suddenly decide they want one... I'm saying that HERE that is extremely improbable and just hasn't happened.

There are indeed shootings in Canada. Most involve legal weapons, unless you live in Toronto (that's a generalization).
Also when I say that a regular person wants a gun to murder someone, they aren't so regular anymore...

As an aside, this has gotten extremely off-topic and is destined for the moving train, where I'll not be following it
We're obviously of two different view points on the subject, and that is fine with me.

Irregardless of countries' a, b, and c's gun control policies, the dispicable act in question is done and no one can change it.
Horrible time for the victims' families, and any Christmas celebrating folks now have this to remember every Christmas for the rest of their lives.

Rygar wrote:

There are indeed shootings in Canada. Most involve legal weapons, unless you live in Toronto (that's a generalization).
Also when I say that a regular person wants a gun to murder someone, they aren't so regular anymore...

No, they're not so regular anymore... but that doesn't mean that suddenly they turn into a gang leader and criminal mastermind and automatically know when, where and how to find a gun d'ya know what I mean?

Rygar wrote:

That's my tunnel vision on the subject as well. I can't fathom that there's a place in which you can't get illegal item 'x' if you want it.

and that's what I find sad about this thread... cos there ARE places! And rygar, we don't really have differing viewpoints cos you've accepted that you don't live here. What we're discussing is how easy it is for a normal person to get a gun... you've said anyone could get one in Canada, I've said they couldn't here... we really have nothing to disagree on cos neither of us know much about eachothers country so therefore can't really debate which is right.