That's a fair question. I can tell you the NRA standard lines, but you've already heard all that. Politics. Actually, your question is political, too.
In a broader perspective, we're a big country where most Americans have 1st generation roots in rural living and the gun was a vital tool. It still is to those folks in a lot of ways. Americans are preserving the heritage of their ancestors.
So what's the American Government doing about it because there seems to be an awful lot of gun crime in the U.S. if the papers are anything to go by.
Nothing. They never will do anything either. This country is weird about murder. We have all of the sickos and our murder rates our out of whack with other 1st world countries with or without guns. It's just such a common occurance here.
Because the murder rate is so high here. To me it's obvious that as a society Americans see murder as an option. It exists amongst all levels of society.
The large number of serial killers (who almost never employ guns) speaks to this. There is just an acceptance of violence in this country that is not related to guns alone. I don't know the stats, but I'd bet that there were a lot of murders here in the US sans guns.
Instead of looking for blame or excuses or reasons or unachievable solutions... how about we simply care for the families affected... including the one this kid came from?
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
Instead of looking for blame or excuses or reasons or unachievable solutions... how about we simply care for the families affected... including the one this kid came from?
Because this could happen again and again and then affect more people. It seems like it's a bit of a problem to me.
Because this could happen again and again and then affect more people. It seems like it's a bit of a problem to me.
...
Not could happen... it WILL happen. Again.. and again... and again...
and every time it does... there the blame and arguements and all is said while nothing is done and it quietly goes away until the next time.
The reality is... there is no solution. Not as long as the same people hold the same opinions and spout the same arguements... a lot of hot air will be produced... but results? A solution? Never.
We just are going to have to accept the fact that nuts are going to shoot up the place... be it a school or a workplace or a shopping mall. There is nothing we can do about it.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
...
Not could happen... it WILL happen. Again.. and again... and again...
and every time it does... there the blame and arguements and all is said while nothing is done and it quietly goes away until the next time.
The reality is... there is no solution. Not as long as the same people hold the same opinions and spout the same arguements... a lot of hot air will be produced... but results? A solution? Never.
We just are going to have to accept the fact that nuts are going to shoot up the place... be it a school or a workplace or a shopping mall. There is nothing we can do about it.
i'm trying to understand a bit more why it happens. everything has a solution and i'm surprised that most people seem to take it so lightly. like you said, it's devastating to those involved.
i'm trying to understand a bit more why it happens. everything has a solution and i'm surprised that most people seem to take it so lightly. like you said, it's devastating to those involved.
...
Trust me... I wish there was a solution. But, realistically... there is none.
I mean, we've had our chidren gunned down at school... on several occasions. What has been done? Metal detectors at schools. Our solution is to turn our schools into airport terminals. Some nut can burst into a nursery ward and slaughter 163 infants... and we will do nothing except argue.
All the arguements and debates leads us towards nothing. We soon forget until the next occurance. That just seems to be the way we like it over here.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
You can't say 100% wrong just because it hasn't happened yet
It can happen anywhere no matter where you live
I think it's NAIVE to think it cannot happen
I didn't say it CANNOT happen... and I'm not naiive. I said it HASN'T happened... you suggested if somebody wants a gun they could get one... I'm simply saying you know nothing about this part of the world because that's completly untrue... sure, I'm sure it COULD happen, but the vast majority of people would have no idea where to start looking if they wanted one. And I CAN say 100% wrong cos it hasn't happened yet... IF and/or when it happens I will reconsider my views but for the moment i stand by them 100%.
The Astoria??? Orgazmic!
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
PP is more or less right.
If someone wants to get a gun, someone can.
Seriously, maybe that's how it is in canada or the states... but definitely not here. I'm not just making this shit up.. I live here, you two don't and if I wanted to get a gun, I wouldn't have a CLUE where to start... it simply doesn't feature on peoples minds anyway. If we wanna kill a load of people, it's probably easier to find a bomb recipe on the internet.
The Astoria??? Orgazmic!
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
Again... have you been here? Lived here? I think it's sad that you think it's like that all over the world :( cos it's not... oh and if you're talking about 'wanting to kill' that's a different story. Sure we still have psychos here, who will kill... but I've yet to hear of a normal person, who's not involved with criminals, getting their hands on a gun and using it.
The Astoria??? Orgazmic!
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
Seriously, maybe that's how it is in canada or the states... but definitely not here. I'm not just making this shit up.. I live here, you two don't and if I wanted to get a gun, I wouldn't have a CLUE where to start... it simply doesn't feature on peoples minds anyway. If we wanna kill a load of people, it's probably easier to find a bomb recipe on the internet.
Didn't you mention gangs and fighting in an earlier post?
Didn't you mention gangs and fighting in an earlier post?
That was covered earlier in this thread... gangs around the world can get what they want... cos usually there's a link with gangs in other countries.
In this thread we are talking about people who AREN'T associated with gangs... that was made clear early on. Phantom pain insisted that ANYONE ANYWHERE can get their hands on a gun if they wanted... THAT is simply not true. Yes, there are plenty of gangs in Ireland, like any country but I, like most people, don't know anybody in one, don't associate with people like that and I certainly wouldn't approach somebody I thought to be a dangerous criminal and ask them for one would you?
The Astoria??? Orgazmic!
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
That was covered earlier in this thread... gangs around the world can get what they want... cos usually there's a link with gangs in other countries.
In this thread we are talking about people who AREN'T associated with gangs... that was made clear early on. Phantom pain insisted that ANYONE ANYWHERE can get their hands on a gun if they wanted... THAT is simply not true. Yes, there are plenty of gangs in Ireland, like any country but I, like most people, don't know anybody in one, don't associate with people like that and I certainly wouldn't approach somebody I thought to be a dangerous criminal and ask them for one would you?
If I wanted a gun, yeah. I don't mean you have to be associated with a gang, you just gotta know where to go (and in most places, it isn't hard to figure out). My point was that you said you didn't know where to get a gun, but you said it in your post. You wouldn't approach them, but if you wanted a gun, you would.
Why do you think it is so impossible for normal sane people (I failed the test yesterday though, so...) to be able to get guns, yet any sane normal person can find almost any kind of drug they're looking for in the same places?
there is huge fundamental differences between Europe and the States/Can
i.e. if i lived in that US and came home to find someone shagging my wife i'd go out and buy a gun and shoot him in the face and cock... i live here and the same thing happens i'd have to join a gun club (of which there are none i know of around me?) then after being vetoed to join by a 5 man committee i'd then have to write to the Police asking for a gun licence and the reason why i would need one... and since i have a criminal record (albeit expired) they would reject me.. so by the time all my anger has dissipated i wouldnt have killed that guy.
as Helen said.. sure there are guns in every country... its just SOOOO much easier to get one in a country that has them under every pillow incase their government tries to do something bad to them... and as Hells said.. 33 years, i know bad people, i know bad areas, i know bad pubs... but i would not be able to get a gun if i wanted one.. and no-one 3000 miles away in the US telling me otherwise is going to persuade me... it just wouldnt happen.
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
there is huge fundamental differences between Europe and the States/Can
i.e. if i lived in that US and came home to find someone shagging my wife i'd go out and buy a gun and shoot him in the face and cock... i live here and the same thing happens i'd have to join a gun club (of which there are none i know of around me?) then after being vetoed to join by a 5 man committee i'd then have to write to the Police asking for a gun licence and the reason why i would need one... and since i have a criminal record (albeit expired) they would reject me.. so by the time all my anger has dissipated i wouldnt have killed that guy.
as Helen said.. sure there are guns in every country... its just SOOOO much easier to get one in a country that has them under every pillow incase their government tries to do something bad to them... and as Hells said.. 33 years, i know bad people, i know bad areas, i know bad pubs... but i would not be able to get a gun if i wanted one.. and no-one 3000 miles away in the US telling me otherwise is going to persuade me... it just wouldnt happen.
No one is disagreeing that it is easier to accomplish in NA.
But there aren't guns under every pillow in Canada. To get a gun (legally) here there's paper work and procedure probably similar to yours in many ways.
Human nature remains the same, however, and anywhere that someone CAN make money from illegal activity, they will. Person A sells drugs, and everyone knows cause everyone smokes 'em, and Person B sells guns, and not everyone knows, cause not everyone is mind fucked enough to go on a shooting rampage.
It's hard for people to think they'd be able to get a gun, cause most of us aren't looking to go murder people. If your brain was f#%$ to the point that you wanted to kill someone, you could get a gun.
If you can't get one from shady people, you can steal one from it's legal owner.
there is huge fundamental differences between Europe and the States/Can
i.e. if i lived in that US and came home to find someone shagging my wife i'd go out and buy a gun and shoot him in the face and cock... i live here and the same thing happens i'd have to join a gun club (of which there are none i know of around me?) then after being vetoed to join by a 5 man committee i'd then have to write to the Police asking for a gun licence and the reason why i would need one... and since i have a criminal record (albeit expired) they would reject me.. so by the time all my anger has dissipated i wouldnt have killed that guy.
as Helen said.. sure there are guns in every country... its just SOOOO much easier to get one in a country that has them under every pillow incase their government tries to do something bad to them... and as Hells said.. 33 years, i know bad people, i know bad areas, i know bad pubs... but i would not be able to get a gun if i wanted one.. and no-one 3000 miles away in the US telling me otherwise is going to persuade me... it just wouldnt happen.
I love the way, no one here takes me seriously...
...you forgot the part about having to make a doctors appointment and then having to wait a couple of days to see them and then being examined and given the ok by him/her.
...you forgot the part about having to make a doctors appointment and then having to wait a couple of days to see them and then being examined and given the ok by him/her.
I missed that post I guess.
Even we don't have to have a psych exam...I don't think anyway....
Training courses and security checks, etc...
No one is disagreeing that it is easier to accomplish in NA.
But there aren't guns under every pillow in Canada. To get a gun (legally) here there's paper work and procedure probably similar to yours in many ways.
Human nature remains the same, however, and anywhere that someone CAN make money from illegal activity, they will. Person A sells drugs, and everyone knows cause everyone smokes 'em, and Person B sells guns, and not everyone knows, cause not everyone is mind fucked enough to go on a shooting rampage.
It's hard for people to think they'd be able to get a gun, cause most of us aren't looking to go murder people. If your brain was f#%$ to the point that you wanted to kill someone, you could get a gun.
If you can't get one from shady people, you can steal one from it's legal owner.
but thing is over here... there are STILL killings... husband's kill wives every few months... or their entire families for that matter... but not one has been done with a gun that wasn't gang related. Gangs here have guns for their own uses, they don't sell them... they don't want them in the hands of other gangs and they also don't want to sell them to unhinged, slightly insane members of the general public... because that WILL end up somehow in the media when they kill somebody. If the person who used the gun doesn't kill themselves, they WILL tell the guards where they got it... so they're only fucking things up for themselves.
And I said in the coke thread that the line from drug import to the average person is extremely long. If I want drugs, I buy from a friend, who bought from a friend, who bought from a friend, who bought from an aquaintance, who bought from a friend who MAY have bought from somebody who knows one of the dealers. I wouldn't go through the same route to get a gun cos then too many people know... that would just be stupid... somebody along the line would say 'nah, I'm not getting involved in that stuff'. I don't know where exactly the drugs my friends get come from... wouldn't have a clue. They don't even know... nor do their suppliers... get where I'm coming from?
The Astoria??? Orgazmic!
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
If you can't get one from shady people, you can steal one from it's legal owner.
Nope... cos in order to get a gun here, you have to have proof that it's going to be held in a safe and secure lockup. Not so easy to nick.
The Astoria??? Orgazmic!
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
But people stick to it here... so it's quite hard to steal a gun. Are you seeing where I'm coming from though now? We do live in completely different worlds gun wise... even our police don't carry guns... just detectives. It's pretty much only the gangs who have them.
The Astoria??? Orgazmic!
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
But people stick to it here... so it's quite hard to steal a gun. Are you seeing where I'm coming from though now? We do live in completely different worlds gun wise... even our police don't carry guns... just detectives. It's pretty much only the gangs who have them.
I see exactly where you're coming from, but I don't agree that it is impossible for future murderers to get guns there.
People generally stick to it here, as well, but it isn't enough.
No one is disagreeing that it is easier to accomplish in NA.
But there aren't guns under every pillow in Canada. To get a gun (legally) here there's paper work and procedure probably similar to yours in many ways.
Human nature remains the same, however, and anywhere that someone CAN make money from illegal activity, they will. Person A sells drugs, and everyone knows cause everyone smokes 'em, and Person B sells guns, and not everyone knows, cause not everyone is mind fucked enough to go on a shooting rampage.
It's hard for people to think they'd be able to get a gun, cause most of us aren't looking to go murder people. If your brain was f#%$ to the point that you wanted to kill someone, you could get a gun.
If you can't get one from shady people, you can steal one from it's legal owner.
Thanks, Rygar.
Why do people always assume that Canada and the USA are the same?? We have very different gun laws here than in the USA... what with us being TWO different countries.
Back home I only know one person with a gun and it was a great uncle's from WWI.
I see exactly where you're coming from, but I don't agree that it is impossible for future murderers to get guns there.
People generally stick to it here, as well, but it isn't enough.
but it is HERE... is what I'm telling you. What you're talking about does NOT go on here. Sure everything's POSSIBLE. We can't talk about what's going to happen in the future cos nobody can predict that... what I'm saying is that right now, in the past and in the forseeable future, in Ireland if a generally sane and straight person goes off the rails they can NOT get their hands on a gun. It really is that simple over here... note, I'm not commenting on what goes on over there, I'm taking your word and the headlines but other than that I can't comment cos I simply don't know... I DO know what goes on in my own country though
The Astoria??? Orgazmic!
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
Why do people always assume that Canada and the USA are the same?? We have very different gun laws here than in the USA... what with us being TWO different countries.
Back home I only know one person with a gun and it was a great uncle's from WWI.
don't worry, nobody's assuming they're the same country we're talking about a few different countries here though... rygar has said that there ARE shootings in Canada and that a regular person could get their hands on a gun if they suddenly decide they want one... I'm saying that HERE that is extremely improbable and just hasn't happened.
The Astoria??? Orgazmic!
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
Comments
In a broader perspective, we're a big country where most Americans have 1st generation roots in rural living and the gun was a vital tool. It still is to those folks in a lot of ways. Americans are preserving the heritage of their ancestors.
all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
It's just how its always been
This country was founded on freedom and that was one of the freedoms you have as an American
Problem now is guns are falling into the wrong hands
The ONLY thing better than a glass of beer is tea with Miss McGill
A protuberance of flesh above the waistband of a tight pair of trousers
how do you know itd be that way without guns?
The large number of serial killers (who almost never employ guns) speaks to this. There is just an acceptance of violence in this country that is not related to guns alone. I don't know the stats, but I'd bet that there were a lot of murders here in the US sans guns.
Hail, Hail!!!
Because this could happen again and again and then affect more people. It seems like it's a bit of a problem to me.
Not could happen... it WILL happen. Again.. and again... and again...
and every time it does... there the blame and arguements and all is said while nothing is done and it quietly goes away until the next time.
The reality is... there is no solution. Not as long as the same people hold the same opinions and spout the same arguements... a lot of hot air will be produced... but results? A solution? Never.
We just are going to have to accept the fact that nuts are going to shoot up the place... be it a school or a workplace or a shopping mall. There is nothing we can do about it.
Hail, Hail!!!
i'm trying to understand a bit more why it happens. everything has a solution and i'm surprised that most people seem to take it so lightly. like you said, it's devastating to those involved.
Trust me... I wish there was a solution. But, realistically... there is none.
I mean, we've had our chidren gunned down at school... on several occasions. What has been done? Metal detectors at schools. Our solution is to turn our schools into airport terminals. Some nut can burst into a nursery ward and slaughter 163 infants... and we will do nothing except argue.
All the arguements and debates leads us towards nothing. We soon forget until the next occurance. That just seems to be the way we like it over here.
Hail, Hail!!!
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
Didn't you mention gangs and fighting in an earlier post?
In this thread we are talking about people who AREN'T associated with gangs... that was made clear early on. Phantom pain insisted that ANYONE ANYWHERE can get their hands on a gun if they wanted... THAT is simply not true. Yes, there are plenty of gangs in Ireland, like any country but I, like most people, don't know anybody in one, don't associate with people like that and I certainly wouldn't approach somebody I thought to be a dangerous criminal and ask them for one
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
If I wanted a gun, yeah. I don't mean you have to be associated with a gang, you just gotta know where to go (and in most places, it isn't hard to figure out). My point was that you said you didn't know where to get a gun, but you said it in your post. You wouldn't approach them, but if you wanted a gun, you would.
Why do you think it is so impossible for normal sane people (I failed the test yesterday though, so...) to be able to get guns, yet any sane normal person can find almost any kind of drug they're looking for in the same places?
i.e. if i lived in that US and came home to find someone shagging my wife i'd go out and buy a gun and shoot him in the face and cock... i live here and the same thing happens i'd have to join a gun club (of which there are none i know of around me?) then after being vetoed to join by a 5 man committee i'd then have to write to the Police asking for a gun licence and the reason why i would need one... and since i have a criminal record (albeit expired) they would reject me.. so by the time all my anger has dissipated i wouldnt have killed that guy.
as Helen said.. sure there are guns in every country... its just SOOOO much easier to get one in a country that has them under every pillow incase their government tries to do something bad to them... and as Hells said.. 33 years, i know bad people, i know bad areas, i know bad pubs... but i would not be able to get a gun if i wanted one.. and no-one 3000 miles away in the US telling me otherwise is going to persuade me... it just wouldnt happen.
No one is disagreeing that it is easier to accomplish in NA.
But there aren't guns under every pillow in Canada. To get a gun (legally) here there's paper work and procedure probably similar to yours in many ways.
Human nature remains the same, however, and anywhere that someone CAN make money from illegal activity, they will. Person A sells drugs, and everyone knows cause everyone smokes 'em, and Person B sells guns, and not everyone knows, cause not everyone is mind fucked enough to go on a shooting rampage.
It's hard for people to think they'd be able to get a gun, cause most of us aren't looking to go murder people. If your brain was f#%$ to the point that you wanted to kill someone, you could get a gun.
If you can't get one from shady people, you can steal one from it's legal owner.
I love the way, no one here takes me seriously...
...you forgot the part about having to make a doctors appointment and then having to wait a couple of days to see them and then being examined and given the ok by him/her.
I missed that post I guess.
Even we don't have to have a psych exam...I don't think anyway....
Training courses and security checks, etc...
And I said in the coke thread that the line from drug import to the average person is extremely long. If I want drugs, I buy from a friend, who bought from a friend, who bought from a friend, who bought from an aquaintance, who bought from a friend who MAY have bought from somebody who knows one of the dealers. I wouldn't go through the same route to get a gun cos then too many people know... that would just be stupid... somebody along the line would say 'nah, I'm not getting involved in that stuff'. I don't know where exactly the drugs my friends get come from... wouldn't have a clue. They don't even know... nor do their suppliers... get where I'm coming from?
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
That's the same over here.
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
I see exactly where you're coming from, but I don't agree that it is impossible for future murderers to get guns there.
People generally stick to it here, as well, but it isn't enough.
Thanks, Rygar.
Why do people always assume that Canada and the USA are the same??
Back home I only know one person with a gun and it was a great uncle's from WWI.
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you