Mall Shooting

Rygar

Heineken Helen wrote:

but it is HERE... is what I'm telling you. What you're talking about does NOT go on here. Sure everything's POSSIBLE. We can't talk about what's going to happen in the future cos nobody can predict that... what I'm saying is that right now, in the past and in the forseeable future, in Ireland if a generally sane and straight person goes off the rails they can NOT get their hands on a gun. It really is that simple over here... note, I'm not commenting on what goes on over there, I'm taking your word and the headlines but other than that I can't comment cos I simply don't know... I DO know what goes on in my own country though

I understand what you're saying, and respect your opinion (and no, I don't live there, so you got that one too).
I have a very pessimistic view of the human race, so to me it isn't that simple and I guess I can't accept that it would be (anywhere).

Our lock-up laws are pretty strict on legal weapons but expecting a lock on a trigger and cabinet to keep a criminal out is laughable.

small town beck

Heineken Helen wrote:

don't worry, nobody's assuming they're the same country we're talking about a few different countries here though... rygar has said that there ARE shootings in Canada and that a regular person could get their hands on a gun if they suddenly decide they want one... I'm saying that HERE that is extremely improbable and just hasn't happened.

I should have read the whole thread :eek: I just saw one post lumping Canada and the USA together and you and I both know how I feel about that

I pretty much assume anywhere that if you really want something, you can get it. There are shootings here but they are pretty rare.

Rygar

Heineken Helen wrote:

don't worry, nobody's assuming they're the same country we're talking about a few different countries here though... rygar has said that there ARE shootings in Canada and that a regular person could get their hands on a gun if they suddenly decide they want one... I'm saying that HERE that is extremely improbable and just hasn't happened.

There are indeed shootings in Canada. Most involve legal weapons, unless you live in Toronto (that's a generalization).
Also when I say that a regular person wants a gun to murder someone, they aren't so regular anymore...

Rygar

small town beck wrote:

I should have read the whole thread :eek: I just saw one post lumping Canada and the USA together and you and I both know how I feel about that

I pretty much assume anywhere that if you really want something, you can get it. There are shootings here but they are pretty rare.

That's my tunnel vision on the subject as well. I can't fathom that there's a place in which you can't get illegal item 'x' if you want it.

Rygar

As an aside, this has gotten extremely off-topic and is destined for the moving train, where I'll not be following it
We're obviously of two different view points on the subject, and that is fine with me.

Irregardless of countries' a, b, and c's gun control policies, the dispicable act in question is done and no one can change it.
Horrible time for the victims' families, and any Christmas celebrating folks now have this to remember every Christmas for the rest of their lives.

Heineken Helen

Rygar wrote:

I understand what you're saying, and respect your opinion (and no, I don't live there, so you got that one too).
I have a very pessimistic view of the human race, so to me it isn't that simple and I guess I can't accept that it would be (anywhere).

Our lock-up laws are pretty strict on legal weapons but expecting a lock on a trigger and cabinet to keep a criminal out is laughable.

Yep... note to keep 'a criminal' out. If a normal person snaps, they're not gonna sit down rationally and think 'hmm... who has a gun that I know? I know, I'll go break into said gun owners residence, find their lockup facility and break into it... when I'm done, THEN I'll go kill the bastard (s)' This would take way too much time, rational thought and planning... which somebody who has snapped generally isn't capable of.

Perhaps I'm too optimistic towards humanity but this is something that we relate to happening in other countries... thankfully it hasn't happened here but rather than saying 'it will happen' should we not be figuring out why it happens in other places and NOT here?

Heineken Helen

Rygar wrote:

There are indeed shootings in Canada. Most involve legal weapons, unless you live in Toronto (that's a generalization).
Also when I say that a regular person wants a gun to murder someone, they aren't so regular anymore...

No, they're not so regular anymore... but that doesn't mean that suddenly they turn into a gang leader and criminal mastermind and automatically know when, where and how to find a gun d'ya know what I mean?

dunkman

small town beck wrote:

Thanks, Rygar.

Why do people always assume that Canada and the USA are the same?? We have very different gun laws here than in the USA... what with us being TWO different countries.

i was speaking geographically... i should have used North America.

but then again most of you lot think Ireland is part of the UK and that England was the only country who fought in 2 world wars... so i dont think i need to apologise...

Heineken Helen

Rygar wrote:

That's my tunnel vision on the subject as well. I can't fathom that there's a place in which you can't get illegal item 'x' if you want it.

and that's what I find sad about this thread... cos there ARE places! And rygar, we don't really have differing viewpoints cos you've accepted that you don't live here. What we're discussing is how easy it is for a normal person to get a gun... you've said anyone could get one in Canada, I've said they couldn't here... we really have nothing to disagree on cos neither of us know much about eachothers country so therefore can't really debate which is right.

Rygar

Heineken Helen wrote:

No, they're not so regular anymore... but that doesn't mean that suddenly they turn into a gang leader and criminal mastermind and automatically know when, where and how to find a gun d'ya know what I mean?

Yeah but my point is that you don't need to be a mastermind to know where, when and how to find a gun.

Phantom Pain

Rygar wrote:

That's my tunnel vision on the subject as well. I can't fathom that there's a place in which you can't get illegal item 'x' if you want it.

I agree with you

If someone wants something they will get it

Like you said let's focus back on the families of this terrible story

As far as solutions for something like this...I can't think of one other than everyone gets home schooled and shops on the internet (not being sarcastic)

dunkman

Rygar wrote:

That's my tunnel vision on the subject as well. I can't fathom that there's a place in which you can't get illegal item 'x' if you want it.

this seems difficult for you to comprehend... i couldnt get a gun here in South West Scotland if my life depended on it... if a nutjob, probably an american, was holding my kids hostage and said you have 3 hours to find a gun... well i'd fail.. i absolutely would.

that 3 hours could be 3 days...

i could walk into the nearest big drug dealers house in the next 20mins... ask him for a gun and he'd just think i was a cop... drug dealers are cunts but i dont think even they'd sell a mentally unhinged guy a gun if he said it was to shoot 14 kids in a school.

Rygar

Heineken Helen wrote:

and that's what I find sad about this thread... cos there ARE places! And rygar, we don't really have differing viewpoints cos you've accepted that you don't live here. What we're discussing is how easy it is for a normal person to get a gun... you've said anyone could get one in Canada, I've said they couldn't here... we really have nothing to disagree on cos neither of us know much about eachothers country so therefore can't really debate which is right.

You do have a point here.

Rygar

dunkman wrote:

i was speaking geographically... i should have used North America.

but then again most of you lot think Ireland is part of the UK and that England was the only country who fought in 2 world wars... so i dont think i need to apologise...

Actually us board-visitin' Canadians know the difference :P
Right Beck?
...right?

Heineken Helen

Rygar wrote:

Yeah but my point is that you don't need to be a mastermind to know where, when and how to find a gun.

My point is... maybe in Canada you don't need to be a mastermind... but here ya DO!

*bangs head off brick wall AGAIN*

Heineken Helen

Phantom Pain wrote:

I agree with you

If someone wants something they will get it

Like you said let's focus back on the families of this terrible story

well not until it's accepted that you may NOT actually know much about a country you've never visited and never lived in? I haven't made any 'factual comments' about your country which I haven't observed... so I don't get why your so quick to make some about mine.

Rygar

dunkman wrote:

this seems difficult for you to comprehend... i couldnt get a gun here in South West Scotland if my life depended on it... if a nutjob, probably an american, was holding my kids hostage and said you have 3 hours to find a gun... well i'd fail.. i absolutely would.

that 3 hours could be 3 days...

i could walk into the nearest big drug dealers house in the next 20mins... ask him for a gun and he'd just think i was a cop... drug dealers are cunts but i dont think even they'd sell a mentally unhinged guy a gun if he said it was to shoot 14 kids in a school.

Of course it is difficult for me to comprehend. People are fucked, and I generally associate that with people everywhere.
Not all people, of course, but where people go, it is inevitable that shit goes with 'em.

Heineken Helen

Rygar wrote:

Actually us board-visitin' Canadians know the difference :P
Right Beck?
...right?

She didn't til I educated her

And lol, it's quite funny how you find it hard to understand how people couldn't get their hands on a gun if they needed it... I find it hard to understand how people in certain countries CAN get one quite easily. I've accepted it though

Heineken Helen

Rygar wrote:

Of course it is difficult for me to comprehend. People are fucked, and I generally associate that with people everywhere.
Not all people, of course, but where people go, it is inevitable that shit goes with 'em.

People are still fucked here... we're probably no more insane or sane than any other country... but there are several different methods of killing... there's beating someone to death with your weights, choking somebody with a hoover, stabbing somebody, these are all cases I read about... people still get killed, they just don't get shot (unless it's gang related or an innocent caught up in a gang feud) and because of this there is a MUCH less chance of a mass killing to the extent that they go on in other countries (now that we've got our bomb fetish over and done with :mad: )

Rygar

Heineken Helen wrote:

She didn't til I educated her

And lol, it's quite funny how you find it hard to understand how people couldn't get their hands on a gun if they needed it... I find it hard to understand how people in certain countries CAN get one quite easily. I've accepted it though

I can make a concession (and accept it) that there you can't get a gun if you want it.
I can get a gun if I wanted it, from many different places because I know where they are. Naturally I associate that with 'if I can do it, anyone can'.

And shame on Beck.

Rygar

Heineken Helen wrote:

People are still fucked here... we're probably no more insane or sane than any other country... but there are several different methods of killing... there's beating someone to death with your weights, choking somebody with a hoover, stabbing somebody, these are all cases I read about... people still get killed, they just don't get shot (unless it's gang related or an innocent caught up in a gang feud) and because of this there is a MUCH less chance of a mass killing to the extent that they go on in other countries (now that we've got our bomb fetish over and done with :mad: )

Well there's something our countries, the UK and Canada, do have in common. People get murdered by all sorts of clever methods and instruments.

Heineken Helen

Rygar wrote:

I can make a concession (and accept it) that there you can't get a gun if you want it.
I can get a gun if I wanted it, from many different places because I know where they are. Naturally I associate that with 'if I can do it, anyone can'.

:eek: wow that really is nuts... and I'm not just saying that to emphasise my point... but that's seriously nuts and scary :eek:

Rygar wrote:

And shame on Beck.

don't worry, I think I gave her enough grief at the time... she knows now though

Heineken Helen

Rygar wrote:

Well there's something our countries, the UK and Canada, do have in common. People get murdered by all sorts of clever methods and instruments.

yep... isn't it wonderful! I think that's something ALL countries have in common... I'm sure even with guns being all over the place and easier to buy than a fucking pack of cigarettes, that they still have inventive ways of killing people too

Rygar

Heineken Helen wrote:

:eek: wow that really is nuts... and I'm not just saying that to emphasise my point... but that's seriously nuts and scary :eek:

I suppose it is kind of scary.
When I was 15 or 16 I got home from school and found a suicide note in my house written by my neighbour. He had taken my dad's shotgun and was going to use it to kill himself (this was before strict gun control, and we lived in the country where nothing bad ever happened to anyone) so the gun was in no way secured, or locked up. I don't know where he got the bullets though...

Heineken Helen wrote:

don't worry, I think I gave her enough grief at the time... she knows now though

I won't scold her then.

dunkman

Rygar wrote:

Well there's something our countries, the UK and Canada, do have in common. People get murdered by all sorts of clever methods and instruments.

Helen's not in the uK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Rygar

dunkman wrote:

Helen's not in the uK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Oh I know, that was a joke to get her going.

I was trying to work that one in for 3 or 4 posts. She missed it though

Phantom Pain

Heineken Helen wrote:

well not until it's accepted that you may NOT actually know much about a country you've never visited and never lived in? I haven't made any 'factual comments' about your country which I haven't observed... so I don't get why your so quick to make some about mine.

These are all GANG related ?

http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/breaking/2007/0211/breaking12.htm

http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/breaking/2007/1206/breaking22.html

http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/breaking/2007/1202/breaking15.html

http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/breaking/2007/1130/breaking43.html

http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/breaking/2007/1128/breaking1.html

All I am saying is if someone wants to get a hold of a gun for a BAD reason they will

Not you or your SANE friends but someone who is NOT sane

Like I said before this THREAD is getting OFF focus

dunkman

Rygar wrote:

Oh I know, that was a joke to get her going.

I was trying to work that one in for 3 or 4 posts. She missed it though

yeah, the Irish are notoriously thick.... she's probably still trying on that one-eyed balaclava i sent her

she maybe saw it but was being diplomatic?.... and that was my Friday joke

Heineken Helen

Rygar wrote:

Well there's something our countries, the UK and Canada, do have in common. People get murdered by all sorts of clever methods and instruments.

oh and... how did I miss that one??? :eek: THE UK????????????? :eek: And you making fun of STB??? Ireland is not in the UK.

small town beck

dunkman wrote:

i was speaking geographically... i should have used North America.

but then again most of you lot think Ireland is part of the UK and that England was the only country who fought in 2 world wars... so i dont think i need to apologise...

Actually I wrote a paper for uni (before I dropped out ) on Northern Ireland so I do actually know the difference I will confess that I sometimes get confused over the whole UK-Great Brit thing but that is all. Silly, we all know the Americans were the only ones who fought in those wars

and what I am being shamed for? :eek: