Boston Red Sox

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  • rebornFixer
    rebornFixer Posts: 4,901
    On an unrelated note, why are the Seattle Mariners the worst team in baseball, EXCEPT when facing the Sox? What a joke. Speaking as a Sox fan, they get paid too much to lose 8-0 to Seattle.

    I'd worry about all the Yanks fans in this thread gloating, except that Kansas City took you out. We are all in the same boat of suck.
  • you are right.....

    he said "we dont hit guys with gay nicknames like a rod, who choke in pressure situations, and hit .260, so get to first bitch before I break your face"

    lester gets 5? wtf? told you, the rays suspensions will be harsher....if hes getting 5, they getting a lot more....this is their demise.

    here comes the Boston Hypocrisy, yet again. ARod is a gay nickname (for the record, I'm no fan of the nickname, or it's many descendants such as IRod, KRod, FRod, or even JRo) but Tek, and Papi, and Youk, and Pap---those are manly. Especially ManRam---nope, nothing gay about that
  • xavier mcdaniel
    xavier mcdaniel Somewhere in NYC Posts: 9,435
    what's wrong with nicknames?


    sure they're not as good as the old days when there were players like "three fingers brown, little poison and big poison waner, the chariman of the board.

    bottom line, they're a part of the game.
    Reading 2004
    Albany 2006 Camden 2006 E. Rutherford 2, 2006 Inglewood 2006,
    Chicago 2007
    Camden 2008 MSG 2008 MSG 2008 Hartford 2008.
    Seattle 2009 Seattle 2009 Philadelphia 2009,Philadelphia 2009 Philadelphia 2009
    Hartford 2010 MSG 2010 MSG 2010
    Toronto 2011,Toronto 2011
    Wrigley Field 2013 Brooklyn 2013 Brooklyn 2013 Philadelphia 2, 2013
    Philadelphia 1, 2016 Philadelphia 2 2016 New York 2016 New York 2016 Fenway 1, 2016
    Fenway 2, 2018
    MSG 2022
    St. Paul, 1, St. Paul 2 2023
    MSG 2024, MSG 2024
    Philadelphia 2024
    "I play good, hard-nosed basketball.
    Things happen in the game. Nothing you
    can do. I don't go and say,
    "I'm gonna beat this guy up."
  • g under p
    g under p Surfing The far side of THE Sombrero Galaxy Posts: 18,236
    here comes the Boston Hypocrisy, yet again. ARod is a gay nickname (for the record, I'm no fan of the nickname, or it's many descendants such as IRod, KRod, FRod, or even JRo) but Tek, and Papi, and Youk, and Pap---those are manly. Especially ManRam---nope, nothing gay about that

    Manram :D I'm very gay over that one. Oh I mean, that's funny. :)

    Peace
    *We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti

    *MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
    .....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti

    *The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)


  • Ok, enough poking each other in the eye. What's the word on the Manny/Youkilis scrap up there. Initial reports were that Youkilis got on manny and Colon for lolligagging their way to the brawl. But then I heard today that manny was fed up with youkilis throwing tantrums after bad at bats
  • g under p
    g under p Surfing The far side of THE Sombrero Galaxy Posts: 18,236
    Ok, enough poking each other in the eye. What's the word on the Manny/Youkilis scrap up there. Initial reports were that Youkilis got on manny and Colon for lolligagging their way to the brawl. But then I heard today that manny was fed up with youkilis throwing tantrums after bad at bats

    Manny and the rest of the team, the team had a previous meeting on this issue and I gather Manny had enough.

    Peace
    *We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti

    *MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
    .....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti

    *The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)


  • ryan198
    ryan198 Posts: 1,015
    Solat13 wrote:
    Well, that part of the story depends on your view. The Red Sox reporter covering the story said Ortiz pulled Sturtze off Kapler as Sturtze was choking Kapler from behind and then Kapler and Nixon beat on Sturtze. The Yankees claimed that Ortiz threw a punch and missed Sturtze before pulling Sturtze off Kapler. Major League baseball agreed more with the Red Sox side and Ortiz was only fined $500 for his part in that fight. So I don't think he "Kimbo'd" anyone in that fight.
    I was kidding about Ortiz...the point was that "fight" is obnoxiously overblown as some key turning point in the season (hence its placement on that stupid book with Stephen King and Stuart O'Nan), when it could be argued that it would take another 3 weeks until the 2004 team actually got going. Sure they beat the Yankees, but they had done so enough that season and the one before.
  • carolinabeerguy
    carolinabeerguy Kernersville, NC Posts: 2,517
    I think the suspensions were fair for the most part other than Lester. If the umpire felt there was retaliation intended by some of his pitches he should have been tossed. Either way it just moves him back a day or so on his next start so it's no big deal. Now, losing 8-0 to Seattle on the other hand...
    I wish I was as fortunate, as fortunate as me.
  • Solat13
    Solat13 Posts: 6,996
    ryan198 wrote:
    I was kidding about Ortiz...the point was that "fight" is obnoxiously overblown as some key turning point in the season (hence its placement on that stupid book with Stephen King and Stuart O'Nan), when it could be argued that it would take another 3 weeks until the 2004 team actually got going. Sure they beat the Yankees, but they had done so enough that season and the one before.

    The reason that it's listed as the turning point, it's the first time Rivera had blown a save for the Yankees to lose against the Red Sox since April 13, 2002. That was so long ago that Rickey Henderson was still batting leadoff for the Red Sox that game and Ugie Urbina saved the game before being imprisoned for attacking 5 men with a machete in Venezuela.

    Going into the day of the fight, the Red Sox were 9.5 games out against the Yankees and had lost 4 in a row to the Yanks - 3 of which were saved by Rivera. After that game, the Sox no longer saw Rivera as the unbeatable pitcher that had plagued them over the years. Rivera blew another save later that year in September and we know what happened in October and then he blew a couple more to start 2005. That game changed the mindset of the team who thought it was just going to be another inevitable year of playoff futility. I remember watching that game with Nothingman44 who was visiting from Providence and we always talk about that game as the game that first gave the fans hope that 2004 was a year that something special was going to happen.
    - Busted down the pretext
    - 8/28/98
    - 9/2/00
    - 4/28/03, 5/3/03, 7/3/03, 7/5/03, 7/6/03, 7/9/03, 7/11/03, 7/12/03, 7/14/03
    - 9/28/04, 9/29/04, 10/1/04, 10/2/04
    - 9/11/05, 9/12/05, 9/13/05, 9/30/05, 10/1/05, 10/3/05
    - 5/12/06, 5/13/06, 5/27/06, 5/28/06, 5/30/06, 6/1/06, 6/3/06, 6/23/06, 7/22/06, 7/23/06, 12/2/06, 12/9/06
    - 8/2/07, 8/5/07
    - 6/19/08, 6/20/08, 6/22/08, 6/24/08, 6/25/08, 6/27/08, 6/28/08, 6/30/08, 7/1/08
    - 8/23/09, 8/24/09, 9/21/09, 9/22/09, 10/27/09, 10/28/09, 10/30/09, 10/31/09
    - 5/15/10, 5/17/10, 5/18/10, 5/20/10, 5/21/10, 10/23/10, 10/24/10
    - 9/11/11, 9/12/11
    - 10/18/13, 10/21/13, 10/22/13, 11/30/13, 12/4/13
  • The Devil Rays (they are still the fucking Devil Rays as far as I am concerned) are a bunch of punks. 3 dudes piling on one guy and punching him in the face while the one guy holds him down?

    Mark my words...... see ya Devil Rays. Be proud of your 1/3 of a season. Back to the bottom you go. They are not going to hang around, and will finish in 4th place behind the Jays, Yanks, and Sox.

    This fight is exactly what they DIDNT NEED. Not only does your starter get punched in the head, you look like thugs, and a few of your players will surely be suspended a few games, but the sox go on to rout your asses.

    See what Pedro started. :)

    Tampa Bay record since you declared them dead---2-0
  • ryan198
    ryan198 Posts: 1,015
    Solat13 wrote:
    The reason that it's listed as the turning point, it's the first time Rivera had blown a save for the Yankees to lose against the Red Sox since April 13, 2002. That was so long ago that Rickey Henderson was still batting leadoff for the Red Sox that game and Ugie Urbina saved the game before being imprisoned for attacking 5 men with a machete in Venezuela.

    Going into the day of the fight, the Red Sox were 9.5 games out against the Yankees and had lost 4 in a row to the Yanks - 3 of which were saved by Rivera. After that game, the Sox no longer saw Rivera as the unbeatable pitcher that had plagued them over the years. Rivera blew another save later that year in September and we know what happened in October and then he blew a couple more to start 2005. That game changed the mindset of the team who thought it was just going to be another inevitable year of playoff futility. I remember watching that game with Nothingman44 who was visiting from Providence and we always talk about that game as the game that first gave the fans hope that 2004 was a year that something special was going to happen.
    That's fine if you argue it changed a mindset against a team...which to me is still a little thin of an argument when you consider the Sox were within 5 outs of defeating them, and had played with them most of the year...but fine I'll give that to you.

    What I'm saying is that it is overblown as a "turnaround" game for the Red Sox when it was clearly not. Following that game the Sox would go 11-8, hardly a hot streak. From that point on however, they would only lose one series (Yankees), and split one series for the rest of the year (Orioles). The actual turnaround was when they got rid of Nomar, and then got used to each other. However, Theo Epstein on the front cover trading Nomar and a minor leaguer, for O-Cab, Mientkewicz, and D-Roberts, isn't as compelling to the Boston market as Veritek popping A-Rod in the face with a glove. Plus it doesn't make as fun a legend as the idea that the Red Sox completely turned it around when A-Rod got hit in the face by the Red Sox "tough as nails" catcher.
  • rebornFixer
    rebornFixer Posts: 4,901
    Tampa Bay record since you declared them dead---2-0

    Against Texas, mind.
  • Solat13
    Solat13 Posts: 6,996
    ryan198 wrote:
    That's fine if you argue it changed a mindset against a team...which to me is still a little thin of an argument when you consider the Sox were within 5 outs of defeating them, and had played with them most of the year...but fine I'll give that to you.

    What I'm saying is that it is overblown as a "turnaround" game for the Red Sox when it was clearly not. Following that game the Sox would go 11-8, hardly a hot streak. From that point on however, they would only lose one series (Yankees), and split one series for the rest of the year (Orioles). The actual turnaround was when they got rid of Nomar, and then got used to each other. However, Theo Epstein on the front cover trading Nomar and a minor leaguer, for O-Cab, Mientkewicz, and D-Roberts, isn't as compelling to the Boston market as Veritek popping A-Rod in the face with a glove. Plus it doesn't make as fun a legend as the idea that the Red Sox completely turned it around when A-Rod got hit in the face by the Red Sox "tough as nails" catcher.

    Stephen King and Stuart O'Nan are fans. The book was written for the fans. It's not a statistical analysis or an in depth look at the season. It's like saying that Bill Simmons' book should be taken seriously as an analysis of the season. The book was written for fun and many of the fans of the Red Sox believe that game was the turning point for the team.

    Besides Dave Roberts was not part of the Nomar deal. It was a separate trade with the Dodgers for Henri Staley who never made the majors.

    And it did change the mindset of the team. The three Yankees games before the fight - the Yankees rallied for a win in the 8th, Captain Jeets dives into the crowd to catch a foul ball in an extra inning game when Nomar tells Francona that he can't pinch hit in a big situation and the day before, Foulke blows a game and in all three Rivera had a big role. Beating Rivera that game changed the mindset for the team that hadn't beaten him in a year and a half.
    - Busted down the pretext
    - 8/28/98
    - 9/2/00
    - 4/28/03, 5/3/03, 7/3/03, 7/5/03, 7/6/03, 7/9/03, 7/11/03, 7/12/03, 7/14/03
    - 9/28/04, 9/29/04, 10/1/04, 10/2/04
    - 9/11/05, 9/12/05, 9/13/05, 9/30/05, 10/1/05, 10/3/05
    - 5/12/06, 5/13/06, 5/27/06, 5/28/06, 5/30/06, 6/1/06, 6/3/06, 6/23/06, 7/22/06, 7/23/06, 12/2/06, 12/9/06
    - 8/2/07, 8/5/07
    - 6/19/08, 6/20/08, 6/22/08, 6/24/08, 6/25/08, 6/27/08, 6/28/08, 6/30/08, 7/1/08
    - 8/23/09, 8/24/09, 9/21/09, 9/22/09, 10/27/09, 10/28/09, 10/30/09, 10/31/09
    - 5/15/10, 5/17/10, 5/18/10, 5/20/10, 5/21/10, 10/23/10, 10/24/10
    - 9/11/11, 9/12/11
    - 10/18/13, 10/21/13, 10/22/13, 11/30/13, 12/4/13
  • g under p
    g under p Surfing The far side of THE Sombrero Galaxy Posts: 18,236
    Nice to see the Sox win a close one.

    Peace
    *We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti

    *MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
    .....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti

    *The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)


  • ryan198
    ryan198 Posts: 1,015
    Solat13 wrote:
    Stephen King and Stuart O'Nan are fans. The book was written for the fans. It's not a statistical analysis or an in depth look at the season. It's like saying that Bill Simmons' book should be taken seriously as an analysis of the season. The book was written for fun and many of the fans of the Red Sox believe that game was the turning point for the team.

    Besides Dave Roberts was not part of the Nomar deal. It was a separate trade with the Dodgers for Henri Staley who never made the majors.

    And it did change the mindset of the team. The three Yankees games before the fight - the Yankees rallied for a win in the 8th, Captain Jeets dives into the crowd to catch a foul ball in an extra inning game when Nomar tells Francona that he can't pinch hit in a big situation and the day before, Foulke blows a game and in all three Rivera had a big role. Beating Rivera that game changed the mindset for the team that hadn't beaten him in a year and a half.
    I said Nomar AND a minor leaguer (forgot his name), plus cash if you want to get super technical, for those three. Like I said, it may/could have been a mindset changing game, but the trades, which were massively unpopular with the fans, were a bigger deal. I distinctly remember my buddy, a very knowledgable and, like you SOLAT, deep thinking Sox fan calling me when I was in a wal-mart with a voice that sounded like he lost a family member. I'm not sure you reaction, but even my g/f's (now wife's) fam was deeply disturbed by it.

    BUT for once in my life I was right. I told them O-Cab was a real nice addition at short, not to mention a forgotten clutch hitter (see: the Expos whenever Vladdy went down), and that Mientk(whatever) would help the D, but then Cabrera made a bad error in like his 2nd or 3rd game and they all called crying again. I won't take any credit for talking up Roberts, but, in Red Sox lore, he turned out to be as important, if not more so, than punching A-Rod's face.

    As for the books, they are fun books, but they do play a huge part in remembering the past. I'd venture to say that Simmons and the O'Nan/King book will be read by a hell of a lot more peeps than my dissertation will be - or even the Red Sox Century Book (which is fantastic btw). So I would argue that they do "matter" to a lot of people. Again, maybe not you, but a bunch of the peeps I interviewed often sighted those as "must reads" when doing my research.
  • NOCODE#1
    NOCODE#1 Posts: 1,477
    EXCEPT when facing the Sox? What a joke. Speaking as a Sox fan, they get paid too much to lose 8-0 to Seattle.
    .
    yea the suspensions didnt affect it at all:rolleyes: can we get a real fan in here?

    what a douche.
    unrelated
    oh an tampa is dead......
    Let's not be negative now. Thumper has spoken
  • ryan198
    ryan198 Posts: 1,015
    No Code...I love your tag about Hank, but don't your Sawx have a street named after an owner who went through life fat, drunk, and stupid? Some people have all the luck ;).
  • jimed14
    jimed14 Posts: 9,488
    ryan198 wrote:
    No Code...I love your tag about Hank, but don't your Sawx have a street named after an owner who went through life fat, drunk, and stupid? Some people have all the luck ;).

    not sure about fat or drunk .... but Tom Yawkey was certainly one thing ... racist.

    (and stupid ... see: Jackie Robinson tryout @ Fenway)

    I too love the quote .... such a great movie.
    "You're one of the few Red Sox fans I don't mind." - Newch91

    "I don't believe in damn curses. Wake up the damn Bambino and have me face him. Maybe I'll drill him in the ass." --- Pedro Martinez
  • rebornFixer
    rebornFixer Posts: 4,901
    NOCODE#1 wrote:
    yea the suspensions didnt affect it at all:rolleyes: can we get a real fan in here?

    what a douche.
    unrelated
    oh an tampa is dead......

    None of the suspensions took effect on that day. So, yeah ... Excuse the shit out of me for having standards.
  • ryan198
    ryan198 Posts: 1,015
    jimed14 wrote:
    not sure about fat or drunk .... but Tom Yawkey was certainly one thing ... racist.

    (and stupid ... see: Jackie Robinson tryout @ Fenway)

    I too love the quote .... such a great movie.
    I didn't say it...but it was implicit. Kind of funny how a stadium memorializes a racist then has an ownership that wonders why no black people want to go there (this is all true I've spoken to the new ownership's underlings -who are black women- and they just laugh). Anway I'm not sure if he was fat (his early days don't look like it from wikipedia), but Yawkey was a huge time drunk. He almost traded Ted Williams for an oft-injured Joe DiMaggio in 1947, after a drunken night out with the owners for the Yankees...so much for a rivalry (see also: Steinbrenner/Henry).

    Anyway Jimed14, I'll get you my dissy once it's passed (at least the 2 chapters on the Red Sox hopefully this fall/winter). Not that you care what I write, but I know that you have said you are a huge Howard Bryant fan, and he's prominent throughout (including a bunch of sweet interview, meaning new, stuff). SOLAT, building from someone else's post on here about being sorry for offending other people...I just want to say how much I look forward to your replies, b/c you keep me honest, and grounded in my writing. I hope you don't feel like I'm compromising your thread, b/c I really, really have a good time having a back and forth convo with you about the sawx. I guess the main thing is that you (and if you don't think I do, I do) read and respond to my posts rather than just incite (sometimes I do this after a crappy day of writing, but mostly I try to add).