will this guy still go to heaven?

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  • know1
    know1 Posts: 6,801
    dunkman wrote:
    ok then... why doesnt god forgive those who didnt believe in him?


    surely he's just building up resentment and hatred for not just one person... but many millions...

    I'm not sure. You seem to know what God is thinking so you probably do not need to ask me.

    When I was asking about forgiveness there, I was actually talking in part about people forgiving each other. Why harbor resentment and wish ill will upon someone? Does it do any good for you personally?
    The only people we should try to get even with...
    ...are those who've helped us.

    Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
  • Julien
    Julien Posts: 2,457
    dunkman wrote:
    1. makes a change from Ames or Klausen posters
    2. well he was a member of the Church dude... doesnt that strike you as kinda weird? plus he was a childfucker not a motherfucker
    3. no... but others do.. and those people believe that god will put people into hell if they dont believe in him... even Ghandi

    member of the church doesn't mean anything to me.. it's not the first time a priest is accused of having abused of children. That's just disgusting and I think those guys deserves to suffer... for those jerks, I even think I agree taht death penalty shoudl be used. But the fact taht he's member of the church or not doens't change anything to me.
    2006: Antwerp, Paris
    2007: Copenhagen, Werchter
    2009: Rotterdam, London
    2010: MSG, Arras, Werchter
    2012: Amsterdam, Prague, Berlin
    2014: Amsterdam, Stockholm
  • NMyTree
    NMyTree Posts: 2,374
    know1 wrote:
    No - what I'm saying is you think your own personal knowledge, experience, reasoning, etc., is so advanced that you think you can explain away God based on what you know. In other words, you're equating or putting yourself above God.

    That fits the definition of an egomania precisely.


    Maybe that's the way you perceive it. But I'm sure many like myself aren't putting ourselves above god. We are questioning what are rather absurd rules, considering he allegedly made us in his own image, with all our weaknesses and vulnerabilities. Yet he punishes us for being who and what we are?

    That doesn't sound like an all loving, benign "God". That sounds like a sadistic, egomaniac. Which are of course the traits of character and personality......of a human being.
  • dunkman
    dunkman Posts: 19,646
    know1 wrote:
    I'm not sure. You seem to know what God is thinking so you probably do not need to ask me.

    well my belief is that god isnt thinking as there is no god.. hence why i asked you if your god was so forgiving then why not forgive those who dont believe in him.

    he'll forgive murder, incest, rape, beastiality, child abuse... but not believing in him... he's goin to send you down!
    know1 wrote:
    When I was asking about forgiveness there, I was actually talking in part about people forgiving each other. Why harbor resentment and wish ill will upon someone? Does it do any good for you personally?

    some people can forgive and some cant... we're all individuals... your religion teaches you to forgive... i have no religion to teach me forgiveness so i go with my own methods... i make up my own mind.
    oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
  • Julien
    Julien Posts: 2,457
    I think using a religion to determine whether you may forgive or not is weak...
    Saying that god has to decide whether someone will go in heaven or in hell is easy. Doing so, you don't have to give your own opinion or even think about what you really think...
    2006: Antwerp, Paris
    2007: Copenhagen, Werchter
    2009: Rotterdam, London
    2010: MSG, Arras, Werchter
    2012: Amsterdam, Prague, Berlin
    2014: Amsterdam, Stockholm
  • NMyTree
    NMyTree Posts: 2,374
    Julien wrote:
    I think using a religion to determine whether you may forgive or not is weak...
    Saying that god has to decide whether someone will go in heaven or in hell is easy. Doing so, you don't have to give your own opinion or even think about what you really think...


    Notice my response on forgiveness has nothing to do with god or religion.
  • Julien
    Julien Posts: 2,457
    NMyTree wrote:
    Notice my response on forgiveness has nothing to do with god or religion.
    my post wasn't written especialy for you. It's my general point of view.
    2006: Antwerp, Paris
    2007: Copenhagen, Werchter
    2009: Rotterdam, London
    2010: MSG, Arras, Werchter
    2012: Amsterdam, Prague, Berlin
    2014: Amsterdam, Stockholm
  • Jeremy1012
    Jeremy1012 Posts: 7,170
    eMMI wrote:
    since he's done something like that, I really doubt that he actually believes in God to be honest.
    Exactly, I mean come on, does anyone believe that these members of the clergy who do this are generally upstanding, pious men who have fallen somewhat, or did they get into that line of work in the first place so that they are a) trusted by the community and b) have steady access to children?
    "I remember one night at Muzdalifa with nothing but the sky overhead, I lay awake amid sleeping Muslim brothers and I learned that pilgrims from every land — every colour, and class, and rank; high officials and the beggar alike — all snored in the same language"
  • NMyTree
    NMyTree Posts: 2,374
    Julien wrote:
    my post wasn't written especialy for you. It's my general point of view.

    As it is mine.

    I was aware your comments were not directed at me. But for some reason, I thought I had the right to comment. Since, you know, this is a message board:D
  • writersu
    writersu Posts: 1,867
    Jeremy1012 wrote:
    Exactly, I mean come on, does anyone believe that these members of the clergy who do this are generally upstanding, pious men who have fallen somewhat, or did they get into that line of work in the first place so that they are a) trusted by the community and b) have steady access to children?


    Hey Jeremy; long time no "talk" to you........hope all is well..........

    I think that if we believe in God then we must also believe in Satan and his eternal battle to overtake God and His people. I believe the Catholic church is uneder huge attack after the priest molestation crisis, as I believe anyone who is trying to live for God will be overwhelmed with challenges.
    To those who believe, this is understandable. To those who do not, this is crazy talk. I just wanted to tell you what I thought in response to your post.
    Baby, You Wouldn't Last a Minute on The Creek......


    Together we will float like angels.........

    In the moment that you left the room, the album started skipping, goodbye to beauty shared with the ones that you love.........
  • Julien
    Julien Posts: 2,457
    NMyTree wrote:
    As it is mine.

    I was aware your comments were not directed at me. But for some reason, I thought I had the right to comment. Since, you know, this is a message board:D
    yes, of course you may comment. This place is made for that.
    religion is a subject that makes me "nervous". I just can't believe in anything and I'm surprised that so many people believe in god (or whatever) and "use him" to explain things or even to justify acts.
    2006: Antwerp, Paris
    2007: Copenhagen, Werchter
    2009: Rotterdam, London
    2010: MSG, Arras, Werchter
    2012: Amsterdam, Prague, Berlin
    2014: Amsterdam, Stockholm
  • know1
    know1 Posts: 6,801
    dunkman wrote:
    some people can forgive and some cant... we're all individuals... your religion teaches you to forgive... i have no religion to teach me forgiveness so i go with my own methods... i make up my own mind.

    My question is not whether you or I choose to forgive (or are taught either way), but rather what is wrong with forgiving someone?
    The only people we should try to get even with...
    ...are those who've helped us.

    Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
  • catch22
    catch22 Posts: 1,081
    know1 wrote:
    My question is not whether you or I choose to forgive (or are taught either way), but rather what is wrong with forgiving someone?

    if he answers, will you answer his question?

    for me, i am all for forgiveness. sometimes it takes time though. and forgiveness does not mean turning a blind eye. we have jails for a reason. and maybe the initial reaction to a story like this is anger. nothing wrong with that. but forgiveness is an admirable long-term response.

    but the question he's posing is a good one and one i have never heard a good answer to from any religious person. if forgiveness is so important, why can murder, rape, child abuse, or genocide be forgiven, but skepticism towards the christian dogma package cannot be?
    and like that... he's gone.
  • know1
    know1 Posts: 6,801
    catch22 wrote:
    but the question he's posing is a good one and one i have never heard a good answer to from any religious person. if forgiveness is so important, why can murder, rape, child abuse, or genocide be forgiven, but skepticism towards the christian dogma package cannot be?

    It's a simple answer. Those things you mention - murder, rape, etc - are only forgiven (as I understand it), if the person truly repents of those sins and asks for forgiveness. If they don't, then they are not forgiven.

    That is EXACTLY the same for the skepticism. If you truly repent and request forgiveness, then you're forgiven. Of course, you can't truly ask God for forgiveness if you do not stop the skepticism.
    The only people we should try to get even with...
    ...are those who've helped us.

    Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
  • catch22
    catch22 Posts: 1,081
    know1 wrote:
    It's a simple answer. Those things you mention - murder, rape, etc - are only forgiven (as I understand it), if the person truly repents of those sins and asks for forgiveness. If they don't, then they are not forgiven.

    That is EXACTLY the same for the skepticism. If you truly repent and request forgiveness, then you're forgiven. Of course, you can't truly ask God for forgiveness if you do not stop the skepticism.

    and this all has to be done before your death bed eh?
    and like that... he's gone.
  • NMyTree
    NMyTree Posts: 2,374
    know1 wrote:
    It's a simple answer. Those things you mention - murder, rape, etc - are only forgiven (as I understand it), if the person truly repents of those sins and asks for forgiveness. If they don't, then they are not forgiven.

    That is EXACTLY the same for the skepticism. If you truly repent and request forgiveness, then you're forgiven. Of course, you can't truly ask God for forgiveness if you do not stop the skepticism.

    So not believing is a sin, correct?
  • know1
    know1 Posts: 6,801
    NMyTree wrote:
    So not believing is a sin, correct?

    Yes.
    The only people we should try to get even with...
    ...are those who've helped us.

    Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
  • deadnothingbetter
    deadnothingbetter Posts: 2,202
    dunkman wrote:
    ummmmmm... . yes.

    and that makes a difference how?
    i dunno... you tell me. the question was if he can still "go to heaven." considering that he was banned from his position... i think it's a given where the church stands on his "salvation" part.
    This isn't the land of opportunity, it's the land of competition.
  • deadnothingbetter
    deadnothingbetter Posts: 2,202
    know1 wrote:
    I believe everything is forgivable except not believing.

    But you didn't answer my question: Why not forgive? Is it better to forgive or to harbor resentment and feelings of revenge?
    not believing is forgiveable.... i bet at one point you didn't believe. but now you do, right?
    This isn't the land of opportunity, it's the land of competition.
  • deadnothingbetter
    deadnothingbetter Posts: 2,202
    Julien wrote:
    member of the church doesn't mean anything to me.. it's not the first time a priest is accused of having abused of children. That's just disgusting and I think those guys deserves to suffer... for those jerks, I even think I agree taht death penalty shoudl be used. But the fact taht he's member of the church or not doens't change anything to me.
    i wish more people thunk like you....
    This isn't the land of opportunity, it's the land of competition.

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