Saudi Textbooks still teaching hate

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  • fuck
    fuck Posts: 4,069
    3inputchick wrote:
    just my own personal view on the issue
    That's great. And the Saudis' personal view on the issue is what your preaching against, and yet you have one even worse. That's what we call irony.
  • fuck
    fuck Posts: 4,069
    jeffbr wrote:
    Based on my observations, I would have to say yes. You are very quick to come to the defense of at least one religion, and appear insulted when anything negative is said about it.
    Does that mean anyone who defends the Palestinians is a Palestinian? Anyone who defends Iraqis is Iraqi? Why can't an atheist defend a religion? Is that "so hard for you to understand"? ;)
    But it is hard for you to understand. Since I am not a believer in the spiritual aspect of the stories, it really can't be considered anything more than mythology. I can't revere it as truth. I can't hold it sacred. Mohammed and Zeus and J.C. have equal footing for me.
    Why do you claim it's hard for me to understand? it's not. Many people I know do not believe in religion. That's perfectly fine.
    Not complaining. Merely making an observation. I do complain when my local laws seem to have a religious origin (like years ago when we had no liquor sales on Sundays). But my post was more observation than complaint.

    Would you think it insane if a country built its laws around the fairy tales of the Brothers Grimm? Me, too.
    Funny analogy, but not the same for sure. Islam can ideally be used as a way to govern. Do people exploit interpretations and use it to their benefit to spread propaganda? Yes. But ,IDEALLY, Islam (and many other religions) are built upon moral codes and with basic laws like no stealing, killing, etc...
  • 3inputchick
    3inputchick Posts: 845
    _outlaw wrote:
    That's great. And the Saudis' personal view on the issue is what your preaching against, and yet you have one even worse. That's what we call irony.
    Bomb them!
    A pessimist is a man who thinks all women are bad. An optimist is one who hopes they are.
  • nobody
    nobody Posts: 353
    _outlaw wrote:
    There is a difference. I'm not saying you physically can't argue it's worse. My point is that it's hypocritical to argue "but there's is worse!" unless you are actually making some EFFORT to fix your own problem. It's like a little kid who just uses the argument "but what he did is worse!" without taking any blame of the problem.

    why can't you say it's worse, when it is worse?
    I don't understand. Can't I say someone is "worse" than me when he killed someone, and I stole a car today. Can't I go to the police and report that man?
    I really don't see where you are getting at.
    _outlaw wrote:
    All I'm saying is that the propaganda used in comparable, and that the US is somewhat to blame since Saudi Arabia is our ally and we don't do shit to stop them from doing anything, which is something I think we all can agree to.
    and I am saying that it is not used comparably. Distorting history is NOT the same as telling children that jews and gays should be killed.
    no matter how often you repeat it.

    and you just said that the US should solve it's own problems first. Now you say that we can all agree on that it is partly the US' fault because you don't do anything to prevent things like those school books...
    which is it that you want to do?
    _outlaw wrote:
    You do realize that almost 100 years ago (particularly in Palestine) Muslims, Christians, and Jews lived together in the Middle East without many problems. it was only until Western powers began meddling in the region that violence began to erupt. But that's a whole other debate.

    it's another debate and a completely simplified view of history that you give here.

    m.
    Godwin's Law:
    "As an internet discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one."
  • nobody
    nobody Posts: 353
    _outlaw wrote:
    As if many people in our own country do not preach against homosexuals?

    And my point isn't that you have to be around when it started, but that you can't argue against another government being religious because that's just how many countries are these days...

    this is what I mean in that you want to compare the US to Saudi-Arabia.
    Yes people in the US preach against gays. But the STATE doesn't call for the execution of gays, does it?
    and to have a law that threatens the lives of gay people it WORSE than having some people preaching against them.

    are you really not able to see the difference?

    and no, I can't argue against another country being religious. But being religious gives nobody the excuse to have "witches" sentenced to death or to throw gays off a rock.

    m.
    Godwin's Law:
    "As an internet discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one."
  • fuck
    fuck Posts: 4,069
    nobody wrote:
    why can't you say it's worse, when it is worse?
    I don't understand. Can't I say someone is "worse" than me when he killed someone, and I stole a car today. Can't I go to the police and report that man?
    I really don't see where you are getting at.
    Your analogy is way off. It's more like you helped the guy buy the gun that he used to kill the person, THEN you told on him.
    and I am saying that it is not used comparably. Distorting history is NOT the same as telling children that jews and gays should be killed.
    no matter how often you repeat it.
    Do you know what comparably even means? I never said it's the SAME. it's definitely SIMILAR to justify deaths over the past 300 years and CHANGE history completely... but is it the SAME? no.
    and you just said that the US should solve it's own problems first. Now you say that we can all agree on that it is partly the US' fault because you don't do anything to prevent things like those school books...
    which is it that you want to do?
    You answered the question yourself. Read this quote again.
    it's another debate and a completely simplified view of history that you give here.
    I never said they "never fought", but certainly during the 1800s and early 1900s religion did not cause many battles in the Middle East... obviously back then with the crusades and all, it's a completely different story.
  • fuck
    fuck Posts: 4,069
    nobody wrote:
    this is what I mean in that you want to compare the US to Saudi-Arabia.
    Yes people in the US preach against gays. But the STATE doesn't call for the execution of gays, does it?
    and to have a law that threatens the lives of gay people it WORSE than having some people preaching against them.

    are you really not able to see the difference?
    It's definitely different in some senses. Obviously the actual government preaching something is different to churches and stuff. However, I was just using an example that propaganda is prevalent everywhere. As for actual governments doing it, the US government does distort facts on a BIG scale, and the News corporations in the US spread propaganda... obviously it's not the SAME as Saudi Arabia, but it's SIMILAR, especially because of the fact that the US gov't and News outlets vilify Arabs/Muslims. Do you not see what the majority of Americans think about Arabs/Muslims? It's actually become an insult these days to become called one.
    and no, I can't argue against another country being religious. But being religious gives nobody the excuse to have "witches" sentenced to death or to throw gays off a rock.
    It's not an excuse obviously, and those are serious issues, but maybe before the US comments on those, we can worry about what WE'RE doing... However, yes, I have agreed throughout this thread that spreading those things in textbooks is, indeed, WRONG.
  • nobody
    nobody Posts: 353
    _outlaw wrote:
    Your analogy is way off. It's more like you helped the guy buy the gun that he used to kill the person, THEN you told on him.

    so does your analogy mean that the US helped establish a fundamentalist regime in S-Arabia (=buy the gun)? This kind of thought way predates US influence in S-Arabia...

    I just think it's regretable that this kind of material is taught in schools. And I think that the US distorts their history in their favour in their school books has absolutely nothing to do with the fact, that there should be some "pressure" (for the lack of a better word) put on the saudi to change it.
    I would even be satisfied if the Saudis at least reached american standards and "only" distort their history...even that would be better than the demand to kill people...

    m.
    Godwin's Law:
    "As an internet discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one."
  • fuck
    fuck Posts: 4,069
    nobody wrote:
    so does your analogy mean that the US helped establish a fundamentalist regime in S-Arabia (=buy the gun)? This kind of thought way predates US influence in S-Arabia...
    Maybe a better analogy would be that the US bought the ammo for the gun the Saudi government already had.
    I just think it's regretable that this kind of material is taught in schools. And I think that the US distorts their history in their favour in their school books has absolutely nothing to do with the fact, that there should be some "pressure" (for the lack of a better word) put on the saudi to change it.
    I would even be satisfied if the Saudis at least reached american standards and "only" distort their history...even that would be better than the demand to kill people...
    I agree with you. The only thing I think should happen in addition to that is that the US also try to fix its own problem... unfortunately, that won't happen.
  • nobody
    nobody Posts: 353
    _outlaw wrote:
    I have agreed throughout this thread that spreading those things in textbooks is, indeed, WRONG.

    and that's what the thread was about:)

    I back out now...

    m.
    Godwin's Law:
    "As an internet discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one."
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    3inputchick wrote:
    Responding to the first post- didnt back read any of the other posts-

    Reason 28904238901234890234890890234890123890123 to bomb the hell out of the middle east!
    YAY

    I wonder why America is the most hated country in the world?
  • canadajammer
    canadajammer Posts: 263
    its amazing how far this thread has gone, without mentioning the textbooks...


    As per the religion aspect. It isn't ISLAM that is the problem. To me, Islam is more or the less the same as any of the other western religions. It's the Islamic establishment, most notably, right-wing Islamic governments who exploit what should be a peaceful religion to practice, into something that is being used for evil/negativity.


    There is huge history of this with the Christian establishment, and it still goes on today, I just don't think at the same extent as it does with the Islamic establishment. (btw, I don't mean the entire Islamic establishment of course, I just mean certain governments in the mid-east. The three most Muslim populated countries aren't even in the middle east).

    'Church and state' have to be separated and that is not the case in many countries. That being said, religion is a major part of people's lives, therefore it should be an important part of society and even politics at times. But it should never be the cause or reason behind government policy.
  • IAmMyself
    IAmMyself Posts: 671
    but from the thread title, all I have to offer is,
    American textbooks still teach lies!~
    "Please help me to help you, help yourself." EV
  • 3inputchick
    3inputchick Posts: 845
    Byrnzie wrote:
    I wonder why America is the most hated country in the world?
    THe teach terror...
    when you have lived it first hand come talk to me- until that point I'm going to stick by my view.
    A pessimist is a man who thinks all women are bad. An optimist is one who hopes they are.
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    3inputchick wrote:
    THe teach terror...
    when you have lived it first hand come talk to me- until that point I'm going to stick by my view.


    O.k. Far be it for me to attempt to understand your type of logic.

    It'd be like trying to debate with a member of the flat Earth society.

    I'll bow out gracefully.
  • 3inputchick
    3inputchick Posts: 845
    Byrnzie wrote:
    'THEY' teach terror???!?!?!?!?

    You mean everybody living in the Middle East teaches terror? :confused:


    And everybody in America is a Christian fundamentalist nutjob, right? :confused:


    So your view is that the Middle East should be bombed? :confused:


    I think I grasp your logic.

    My views may not be popular with the PJ crowd, but they are mine-
    bomb the f'ers.
    A pessimist is a man who thinks all women are bad. An optimist is one who hopes they are.
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    3inputchick wrote:
    bomb the f'ers.


    For anyone who ever harboured any illusions that Pearl Jam fans were of a particualr ilk re: openmindedness, intelligence, political affiliation e.t.c. Here you have the reality!
  • 3inputchick
    3inputchick Posts: 845
    Byrnzie wrote:
    For anyone who ever harboured any illusions that Pearl Jam fans were of a particualr ilk re: openmindedness, intelligence, political affiliation e.t.c. Here you have the reality!
    I'm 100% republican
    Educated at NYU and Columbia
    Bought Ten when my friends were buying New Kids CD's

    Watched my backyard destroyed by these animals- watched people I love die only because they went to work on that beautiful summer day- bomb the f'ers.
    A pessimist is a man who thinks all women are bad. An optimist is one who hopes they are.
  • 3inputchick
    3inputchick Posts: 845
    Oh wait- now you are going to blame it all on the president-
    A pessimist is a man who thinks all women are bad. An optimist is one who hopes they are.
  • 3inputchick
    3inputchick Posts: 845
    I'm going in the shower-
    we can finish this another time!
    A pessimist is a man who thinks all women are bad. An optimist is one who hopes they are.

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