Secondly, bringing up the US is definitely relevant because:
1) someone mentioned that THIS causes more "terrorism," when in reality, US interference in the region plays a major role.
2) pointing out people's hypocrisy when referring to propaganda in the Middle East, as if it doesn't exist everywhere else, especially in the US.
Is the OP a US citizen? I have no idea. I always figured the OP was Iraeli, but who knows?
Anyway, I suppose "people like you" have a condition called "knee-jerk" which can't be helped, so justify away.
"I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
You aren't forced to worship anything in Saudi Arabia either. I have many Christian friends living there.
And just because their government is a religious government does not make it wrong. Referring to their laws as "other worldly laws" is just insulting to Muslims in general.
And saying that the "terrible things" done by Muslims is endorsed by religion is ALSO an insult to all Muslims because that is false. The "terrible things" that are shown on TV done by Muslims (although the ratio of things done by Muslims is show on TV at a much greater scale than Christians) is NOT endorsed by their religion. "Religious extremists" or whatever fucking technical term you want to use are the ones who "endorse" these "terrible things."
Obviously it's not the SAME as US, but it's certainly comparable.
But the laws are based around Islam, where as here they arent. I remember reading an article Maureen Dowd wrote when she was over there and she was forced to cover up or face being jailed. So great, she might not be forced to worship Allah, but she still had to follow the Islamic rules that are a set part of society.
Any rules or beliefs based on a religion are other worldly. If you dont agree with that, then you dont understand religion. If that is insulting so be it, its the truth for any religion.
And there are plenty of major Islamic religious leaders that applaud and praise violence committed in the name of Allah. I never once said all Muslims were extremists, and have several good friends who are Muslims from Iran. So, dont put words in my mouth.
I posted an article about how Saudi Textbooks are filled with hate/lies/and a extremist and religious based curriculum.
If anything, I started this thread to vilify the Saudi government, not 'Arabs.'
But go ahead, accuse me of anything you want, I don't really care.
I think this type of education is the worst thing you can possibly expose to children.
Outlaw, do you agree with the ideas and claims being put into the Saudi textbook?
it's just this thing that people keep misinterpreting other people's posts so they can oppose against points no one has made(except themselves) and show how righteous and wise they are.
admission: off topic as well...
m.
Godwin's Law:
"As an internet discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one."
Maybe more effort should be put forth by the Saudi government (or whoever writes the curriculum) to teach Math, Science, Arts, etc.
But the Saudis won't do that themselves. The whole point is that who will do something about it and approach the Saudis to change their curriculum WITHOUT being hypocritical themselves??
And just yesterday you posted a topic to vilify the Lebanese citizens for welcoming back a prisoner that was held by Israel.
Of course not. Anyone who agrees with that is either ignorant or a racist.
Colorsblending, do you not think the US blatantly attempts to spread hate/fear in the name of a cause?
Why doesn't the USA teach their kids that Al-Queda started WW1, or WW2 for that matter.
The Saudis crossed the line a lot further than the USA does right now in terms of education.
They celebrated a man who murdered 3 people including a 4 year-old-girl. Don't you think there is something wrong with that!!
this isn't an Israel debate...I just think there is something terribly wrong with making clear and brutal murderer into a national hero; just as I think it is wrong for people to say: "oh its okay I guess that the Saudis teach their kids these horrible and false things, because American text books aren't perfect either."
Lol, it was different in my head. I didn't mean people like you, I meant comments like those.
Is the OP a US citizen? I have no idea. I always figured the OP was Iraeli, but who knows?
I assume he/she is a US citizen, but either way, my first point is justified and the second point is justified in that most posters here are US citizens so it's definitely relevant.
But the laws are based around Islam, where as here they arent. I remember reading an article Maureen Dowd wrote when she was over there and she was forced to cover up or face being jailed. So great, she might not be forced to worship Allah, but she still had to follow the Islamic rules that are a set part of society.
I already acknowledged they are an Islamic government. If Ms. Dowd does not like how the laws are over there, then she should leave because it's no secret that it's a government that makes its laws around its religion. It's a country with a Muslim majority that follows those laws either way. Ms. Dowd's story also sounds kind of fake (not calling you a liar) because I have many friends who are girls who aren't forced to cover.
Any rules or beliefs based on a religion are other worldly. If you dont agree with that, then you dont understand religion. If that is insulting so be it, its the truth for any religion.
All I'm saying is that there is a better way of saying it that wouldn't be insulting to a Muslim. Just because you don't agree with the person's religious views does not constitute you calling his/her laws "other worldly"...
And there are plenty of major Islamic religious leaders that applaud and praise violence committed in the name of Allah.
Not really "plenty." A VERY small minority do, actually, and they don't just support ANY random violence committed, they support guerrilla fighting for a just cause. Big difference. During the American Revolution, tons of publications were being sold to get people to fight against the British using guerrilla warfare tactics. Are they insane for doing so?
I never once said all Muslims were extremists, and have several good friends who are Muslims from Iran. So, dont put words in my mouth.
Where did I put words in your mouth? I never claimed you said all Muslims were extremists. My whole point was that you said the "terrible things" Muslims do is "endorsed by religion" when it's not endorsed by the ACTUAL religion but by other people.
Why doesn't the USA teach their kids that Al-Queda started WW1, or WW2 for that matter.
The Saudis crossed the line a lot further than the USA does right now in terms of education.
what? now there's a special line you cross?
They celebrated a man who murdered 3 people including a 4 year-old-girl. Don't you think there is something wrong with that!!
Lol, you really do know how to spin words around. They did NOT celebrate his KILLING, they celebrated his RETURN. BIG DIFFERENCE.
this isn't an Israel debate...I just think there is something terribly wrong with making clear and brutal murderer into a national hero; just as I think it is wrong for people to say: "oh its okay I guess that the Saudis teach their kids these horrible and false things, because American text books aren't perfect either."
I'm not saying it's ok Saudis can teach their kids these things. I'm saying that it's hypocritical for Americans to judge them when our own system is shit. It's the same when people say that the Americans are hypocritical for telling other people not to make nukes, when we have the biggest nuke arsenal in the world. All nukes are bad, obviously.
I already acknowledged they are an Islamic government. If Ms. Dowd does not like how the laws are over there, then she should leave because it's no secret that it's a government that makes its laws around its religion. It's a country with a Muslim majority that follows those laws either way. Ms. Dowd's story also sounds kind of fake (not calling you a liar) because I have many friends who are girls who aren't forced to cover.
All I'm saying is that there is a better way of saying it that wouldn't be insulting to a Muslim. Just because you don't agree with the person's religious views does not constitute you calling his/her laws "other worldly"...
Not really "plenty." A VERY small minority do, actually, and they don't just support ANY random violence committed, they support guerrilla fighting for a just cause. Big difference. During the American Revolution, tons of publications were being sold to get people to fight against the British using guerrilla warfare tactics. Are they insane for doing so?
Where did I put words in your mouth? I never claimed you said all Muslims were extremists. My whole point was that you said the "terrible things" Muslims do is "endorsed by religion" when it's not endorsed by the ACTUAL religion but by other people.
It is no secret that woman in Saudi Arabia arent treated well. Whether Maureen Dowd is lying I dont know, but it is no secret that women are treated poorly. And just because she writes a story about Saudi Arabia, doesnt mean she wasnt willing to comply to there laws.
I dont care if there is a better way to say it. What I said is true. Allah, Jesus, Zeus, etc dont live on Earth in their respective religions, so they and there rules, laws, etc are "other wordly". My favorite definition of political correctness is " taking sensitivity over truth". WHich is precisely what you did. Just because the truth is insulting, doesnt mean it isnt the truth (though I really dont see why it is insulting anyway, Muslims do believe in another world and an afterlife, but to each his own I guess). And I specifically called every religions views other wordly, not just Islam.
There were leaders calling for violence due to the Danish cartoons. And again, I never said it was all of Islam, there are obviously some very moderate and I would venture to guess lovely countries that are Islamic in nature. But that doesnt also mean that some of them are completely screwed up countries either. And there are also justified reasons for some of their violence. I never said their wasnt that either.
ANd there are plenty of instances in the Koran that at least with the strictest interpretation, call for violence against infidels. That isnt debatable. I agree, most Muslims today dont go with that, but that is the truth. Just like there are terrible things in the Bible and Torah also.
It is no secret that woman in Saudi Arabia arent treated well. Whether Maureen Dowd is lying I dont know, but it is no secret that women are treated poorly.
That's a whole other issue though (pretty irrelevant too)...
And just because she writes a story about Saudi Arabia, doesnt mean she wasnt willing to comply to there laws.
I never said she wasn't willing.
I dont care if there is a better way to say it. What I said is true. Allah, Jesus, Zeus, etc dont live on Earth in their respective religions, so they and there rules, laws, etc are "other wordly".
Don't live on Earth? That's an entire other debate, and only one who probably isn't a Muslim would argue that..
My favorite definition of political correctness is " taking sensitivity over truth". WHich is precisely what you did. Just because the truth is insulting, doesnt mean it isnt the truth
The truth? Sorry, but what you said can't be proven. I know God's existence can't be technically PROVEN either, and this is a whole other debate, but calling it "truth" is definitely wrong. Taking sensitivity over truth is also open for debate because you act like I'm disrupting you from saying the truth so that you can be sensitive... which I'm not because what you're saying is insulting to muslims because they'd argue that what you say is NOT TRUE.
(though I really dont see why it is insulting anyway, Muslims do believe in another world and an afterlife
Not exactly. It's definitely a bit more complicated than just "another world."
And I specifically called every religions views other wordly, not just Islam.
irrelevant.
There were leaders calling for violence due to the Danish cartoons. And again, I never said it was all of Islam,
And, AGAIN, I never claimed you said it was all of Islam. Where do you keep getting this from?
there are obviously some very moderate and I would venture to guess lovely countries that are Islamic in nature. But that doesnt also mean that some of them are completely screwed up countries either.
Obviously, but the fact that they are screwed up has nothing to do with the fact that they're Islamic.
And there are also justified reasons for some of their violence. I never said their wasnt that either.
ok.
ANd there are plenty of instances in the Koran that at least with the strictest interpretation, call for violence against infidels. That isnt debatable.
Actually, it MOST CERTAINLY is VERY debatable and UNTRUE.
I agree, most Muslims today dont go with that, but that is the truth. Just like there are terrible things in the Bible and Torah also.
What's the difference? Celebrating hs return celebrates his actions...
No, it's not. Celebrating someone returning home after 30 years is not the same as celebrating the actions he committed 30 years ago while fighting an occupation.
i think the conclusion of this debate is that "only perfect people can judge others" since there are no perfect people you can't judge what other do.
so from now on, i don't want to hear people complaining abotu other countries. so that means that you can't complain abotu what the USA does as you do the same (maybe not as good, or in my opinion not as bad)
People demand freedom of speech to make up for the freedom of thought which they avoid."
- Soren Aabye Kierkegaard (1813-1855)
If you haven't got anything nice to say about anybody, come sit next to me."
- Alice Roosevelt Longworth (1884-1980)
No, it's not. Celebrating someone returning home after 30 years is not the same as celebrating the actions he committed 30 years ago while fighting an occupation.
Killed a 4 year old...c'mon, she's not an "occupation", she was a 4 year old little girl!!!!
It comment like this that ruin the rest of you arguments. Seriously, that comment has me more pissed off then I've been in a while...it sick to think of it the way you do and you need help.
i think the conclusion of this debate is that "only perfect people can judge others" since there are no perfect people you can't judge what other do.
so from now on, i don't want to hear people complaining abotu other countries. so that means that you can't complain abotu what the USA does as you do the same (maybe not as good, or in my opinion not as bad)
There's a difference between not being perfect and being a complete hypocrite. I'm not justifying the propaganda spread in the textbooks or anything. I'm just saying that we should try to fix our own country before trying to fix others, which is something I think we can all agree with.
Killed a 4 year old...c'mon, she's not an "occupation", she was a 4 year old little girl!!!!
she's not an occupation? I'm not an idiot, I know that. I'm not justifying her murder either. My point is that he still has family and friends regardless of his previous actions who love him and will welcome him back. It's none of our business to judge all those people based on that.
Totally agree. No argument from me. I wasn't suggesting the US is innocent of anything. I just find it silly that the same few posters around here love to turn non-US themed threads into threads about the US. Maybe it is penis envy, or maybe it is their own deep-seated hate, but I thought I'd point it out for their benefit so that they could perhaps better deal with their issue.
It's because 'the rest of the world' is jealous of your freedom.
she's not an occupation? I'm not an idiot, I know that. I'm not justifying her murder either. My point is that he still has family and friends regardless of his previous actions who love him and will welcome him back. It's none of our business to judge all those people based on that.
I'll look into it.
You seem fine judging some...but not murderers of 4 year olds...interesting.
They celebrated a man who murdered 3 people including a 4 year-old-girl. Don't you think there is something wrong with that!!
this isn't an Israel debate...I just think there is something terribly wrong with making clear and brutal murderer into a national hero; just as I think it is wrong for people to say: "oh its okay I guess that the Saudis teach their kids these horrible and false things, because American text books aren't perfect either."
I also think it's wrong that an Israeli soldier is promoted and rewarded for pumping 17 bullets into a 13 year old schoolgirl. Can you imagine if this same soldier was captured and held prisoner by the Palestinians for a number of years before then being released back to Israel? I wondere what sort of welcome home reception he'd recieve? What do you reckon?
Comparing American school books with this example of Saudi-Arabian school books and saying they are basically similiar is wrong:
distorting the past for "a cause" is one thing...
making up false facts for a cause is one thing...
using unfit words to describe a group of people and their behaviour is one thing
actually demanding that a group of people is to be considered worthless con-men that have to be killed now and/or in the future is another thing
for some it might be the same (kind of "propaganda"): factually though, it's not, and please don't call it splitting hairs:
and I think it's perfectly valid to critizise the demanding of murder in school books without being hypocritical, no matter in which country you live
but for people who have this guy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Neumann
as one of their sources of information, I am not surprised.
He downplays the role of antisemitism in the israeli/arab world conflict, while in fact it fueles and justifies actions against civilians, giving them a greater meaning, but to quote him: "Who cares?"
m.
Godwin's Law:
"As an internet discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one."
That's a whole other issue though (pretty irrelevant too)...
I never said she wasn't willing.
Don't live on Earth? That's an entire other debate, and only one who probably isn't a Muslim would argue that..
The truth? Sorry, but what you said can't be proven. I know God's existence can't be technically PROVEN either, and this is a whole other debate, but calling it "truth" is definitely wrong. Taking sensitivity over truth is also open for debate because you act like I'm disrupting you from saying the truth so that you can be sensitive... which I'm not because what you're saying is insulting to muslims because they'd argue that what you say is NOT TRUE.
Not exactly. It's definitely a bit more complicated than just "another world."
irrelevant.
And, AGAIN, I never claimed you said it was all of Islam. Where do you keep getting this from?
Obviously, but the fact that they are screwed up has nothing to do with the fact that they're Islamic.
ok.
Actually, it MOST CERTAINLY is VERY debatable and UNTRUE.
Not, it's not "just like that".
Women being treated poorly due to religious beliefs isnt irrelevant, and it is disgusting. Draping a flag of religion around sexism, doesnt mean it isnt sexism.
And no, Allah, Jesus, Yahweh, etc dont live on Earth in their respective religions. That isnt debatable, and no Muslim would argue with me on that.
And are you a Muslim? Just curious. If not, then who made you the speaker for them to tell me what does and doesnt insult them? Spare me the outrage. Allah is a heavenly otherwordly figure. Again, that isnt debatable, it is what the Koran teaches.
And yes, the fact they are screwed up has much to do with Islam. When your whole society based on religious beliefs, then you cant ignore that when discussing that society as a whole.
And if "other wordly" is somehow offensive, please tell me the correct phrase that Muslims would prefer. You obviously know that it is insulting to them, so please tell me the PC hypersensitive term, so I dont offend you anymore. Thanks.
And yes, the Koran has plenty of instances of "killing the infidel". Maybe you need a different translation, because it is there.
Comparing American school books with this example of Saudi-Arabian school books and saying they are basically similiar is wrong:
distorting the past for "a cause" is one thing...
making up false facts for a cause is one thing...
using unfit words to describe a group of people and their behaviour is one thing
actually demanding that a group of people is to be considered worthless con-men that have to be killed now and/or in the future is another thing
for some it might be the same (kind of "propaganda"): factually though, it's not, and please don't call it splitting hairs:
Obviously, there's a difference between it, but when propaganda still plays a major factor in your school books, NEWS, and government reports, then you can't really argue that other countries "have it worse"... I already gave my example with the Nuclear proliferation. The US needs to fix its own problems before trying to fix other countries' problems. Any argument there?
and I think it's perfectly valid to critizise the demanding of murder in school books without being hypocritical, no matter in which country you live
A bit of an exaggeration. I wouldn't say it actually "demands murder" so much as it just teaches a hate... maybe it'll lead to deaths, whatever, you can throw in your own arguments. The point is simple though: This happens all over the world. In the US, many murders and deaths and wars are played out so that most people don't understand who the true victims are. You can argue it's "not as bad" as the Saudi propaganda, but how is that a real argument?
but for people who have this guy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Neumann
as one of their sources of information, I am not surprised.
He downplays the role of antisemitism in the israeli/arab world conflict, while in fact it fueles and justifies actions against civilians, giving them a greater meaning, but to quote him: "Who cares?"
m.
I'm curious as to how much, if any, of his work you've actually read?
Comments
People like me? Like who? What?
Is the OP a US citizen? I have no idea. I always figured the OP was Iraeli, but who knows?
Anyway, I suppose "people like you" have a condition called "knee-jerk" which can't be helped, so justify away.
Of course not. Anyone who agrees with that is either ignorant or a racist.
Colorsblending, do you not think the US blatantly attempts to spread hate/fear in the name of a cause?
But the laws are based around Islam, where as here they arent. I remember reading an article Maureen Dowd wrote when she was over there and she was forced to cover up or face being jailed. So great, she might not be forced to worship Allah, but she still had to follow the Islamic rules that are a set part of society.
Any rules or beliefs based on a religion are other worldly. If you dont agree with that, then you dont understand religion. If that is insulting so be it, its the truth for any religion.
And there are plenty of major Islamic religious leaders that applaud and praise violence committed in the name of Allah. I never once said all Muslims were extremists, and have several good friends who are Muslims from Iran. So, dont put words in my mouth.
it's just this thing that people keep misinterpreting other people's posts so they can oppose against points no one has made(except themselves) and show how righteous and wise they are.
admission: off topic as well...
m.
"As an internet discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one."
Why doesn't the USA teach their kids that Al-Queda started WW1, or WW2 for that matter.
The Saudis crossed the line a lot further than the USA does right now in terms of education.
They celebrated a man who murdered 3 people including a 4 year-old-girl. Don't you think there is something wrong with that!!
this isn't an Israel debate...I just think there is something terribly wrong with making clear and brutal murderer into a national hero; just as I think it is wrong for people to say: "oh its okay I guess that the Saudis teach their kids these horrible and false things, because American text books aren't perfect either."
I assume he/she is a US citizen, but either way, my first point is justified and the second point is justified in that most posters here are US citizens so it's definitely relevant.
I can't see how you can justify the way he killed a 4-year-old girl...targeted and killed specifically.
Yeah exactly. I can't see how the Lebanese people who celebrated him as a hero can justify what he did.
All I'm saying is that there is a better way of saying it that wouldn't be insulting to a Muslim. Just because you don't agree with the person's religious views does not constitute you calling his/her laws "other worldly"...
Not really "plenty." A VERY small minority do, actually, and they don't just support ANY random violence committed, they support guerrilla fighting for a just cause. Big difference. During the American Revolution, tons of publications were being sold to get people to fight against the British using guerrilla warfare tactics. Are they insane for doing so?
Where did I put words in your mouth? I never claimed you said all Muslims were extremists. My whole point was that you said the "terrible things" Muslims do is "endorsed by religion" when it's not endorsed by the ACTUAL religion but by other people.
Lol, you really do know how to spin words around. They did NOT celebrate his KILLING, they celebrated his RETURN. BIG DIFFERENCE.
I'm not saying it's ok Saudis can teach their kids these things. I'm saying that it's hypocritical for Americans to judge them when our own system is shit. It's the same when people say that the Americans are hypocritical for telling other people not to make nukes, when we have the biggest nuke arsenal in the world. All nukes are bad, obviously.
It is no secret that woman in Saudi Arabia arent treated well. Whether Maureen Dowd is lying I dont know, but it is no secret that women are treated poorly. And just because she writes a story about Saudi Arabia, doesnt mean she wasnt willing to comply to there laws.
I dont care if there is a better way to say it. What I said is true. Allah, Jesus, Zeus, etc dont live on Earth in their respective religions, so they and there rules, laws, etc are "other wordly". My favorite definition of political correctness is " taking sensitivity over truth". WHich is precisely what you did. Just because the truth is insulting, doesnt mean it isnt the truth (though I really dont see why it is insulting anyway, Muslims do believe in another world and an afterlife, but to each his own I guess). And I specifically called every religions views other wordly, not just Islam.
There were leaders calling for violence due to the Danish cartoons. And again, I never said it was all of Islam, there are obviously some very moderate and I would venture to guess lovely countries that are Islamic in nature. But that doesnt also mean that some of them are completely screwed up countries either. And there are also justified reasons for some of their violence. I never said their wasnt that either.
ANd there are plenty of instances in the Koran that at least with the strictest interpretation, call for violence against infidels. That isnt debatable. I agree, most Muslims today dont go with that, but that is the truth. Just like there are terrible things in the Bible and Torah also.
Ain't that the truth!!!
I never said she wasn't willing.
Don't live on Earth? That's an entire other debate, and only one who probably isn't a Muslim would argue that..
The truth? Sorry, but what you said can't be proven. I know God's existence can't be technically PROVEN either, and this is a whole other debate, but calling it "truth" is definitely wrong. Taking sensitivity over truth is also open for debate because you act like I'm disrupting you from saying the truth so that you can be sensitive... which I'm not because what you're saying is insulting to muslims because they'd argue that what you say is NOT TRUE.
Not exactly. It's definitely a bit more complicated than just "another world."
irrelevant.
And, AGAIN, I never claimed you said it was all of Islam. Where do you keep getting this from?
Obviously, but the fact that they are screwed up has nothing to do with the fact that they're Islamic.
ok.
Actually, it MOST CERTAINLY is VERY debatable and UNTRUE.
Not, it's not "just like that".
so from now on, i don't want to hear people complaining abotu other countries. so that means that you can't complain abotu what the USA does as you do the same (maybe not as good, or in my opinion not as bad)
- Soren Aabye Kierkegaard (1813-1855)
If you haven't got anything nice to say about anybody, come sit next to me."
- Alice Roosevelt Longworth (1884-1980)
Killed a 4 year old...c'mon, she's not an "occupation", she was a 4 year old little girl!!!!
It comment like this that ruin the rest of you arguments. Seriously, that comment has me more pissed off then I've been in a while...it sick to think of it the way you do and you need help.
I'll look into it.
It's because 'the rest of the world' is jealous of your freedom.
You seem fine judging some...but not murderers of 4 year olds...interesting.
man, you people really spin words.
I also think it's wrong that an Israeli soldier is promoted and rewarded for pumping 17 bullets into a 13 year old schoolgirl. Can you imagine if this same soldier was captured and held prisoner by the Palestinians for a number of years before then being released back to Israel? I wondere what sort of welcome home reception he'd recieve? What do you reckon?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2005/nov/16/israel2
The rest of the world doesn't derail threads, just a select few. I'm just trying to figure out the fixation.
distorting the past for "a cause" is one thing...
making up false facts for a cause is one thing...
using unfit words to describe a group of people and their behaviour is one thing
actually demanding that a group of people is to be considered worthless con-men that have to be killed now and/or in the future is another thing
for some it might be the same (kind of "propaganda"): factually though, it's not, and please don't call it splitting hairs:
and I think it's perfectly valid to critizise the demanding of murder in school books without being hypocritical, no matter in which country you live
but for people who have this guy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Neumann
as one of their sources of information, I am not surprised.
He downplays the role of antisemitism in the israeli/arab world conflict, while in fact it fueles and justifies actions against civilians, giving them a greater meaning, but to quote him: "Who cares?"
m.
"As an internet discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one."
I was simply repeating what your President said.
Women being treated poorly due to religious beliefs isnt irrelevant, and it is disgusting. Draping a flag of religion around sexism, doesnt mean it isnt sexism.
And no, Allah, Jesus, Yahweh, etc dont live on Earth in their respective religions. That isnt debatable, and no Muslim would argue with me on that.
And are you a Muslim? Just curious. If not, then who made you the speaker for them to tell me what does and doesnt insult them? Spare me the outrage. Allah is a heavenly otherwordly figure. Again, that isnt debatable, it is what the Koran teaches.
And yes, the fact they are screwed up has much to do with Islam. When your whole society based on religious beliefs, then you cant ignore that when discussing that society as a whole.
And if "other wordly" is somehow offensive, please tell me the correct phrase that Muslims would prefer. You obviously know that it is insulting to them, so please tell me the PC hypersensitive term, so I dont offend you anymore. Thanks.
And yes, the Koran has plenty of instances of "killing the infidel". Maybe you need a different translation, because it is there.
A bit of an exaggeration. I wouldn't say it actually "demands murder" so much as it just teaches a hate... maybe it'll lead to deaths, whatever, you can throw in your own arguments. The point is simple though: This happens all over the world. In the US, many murders and deaths and wars are played out so that most people don't understand who the true victims are. You can argue it's "not as bad" as the Saudi propaganda, but how is that a real argument?
I'm curious as to how much, if any, of his work you've actually read?