What have we done?

cincybearcat wrote:

You're shocked that I think maybe it's ok for people to take out loans to pay for the stuff that they buy...like an education?

I'm all for making it as affordable as possible with many alternatives, but nothing is ever free.

I hope that you misunderstood me. If you didn't...who should pay for it?

thank god i live in a country where the education and healthcare is free... yes i mean 'free'

cincybearcat wrote:

who should pay for it?

Revenue, Redistribution.... don't they mean anything to you?

revenue: taxes raise money to spend on roads, schools and hospitals, and on more indirect government functions like market regulation or justice systems.

redistribution. Normally, this means transferring wealth from the richer sections of society to poorer sections. This function is widely accepted in most democracies,

The government's JOB is to achieve the entire population's well being. But the white house does not sell cookies, all the money a government makes comes from taxes. That have to go to places where money is needed. Now that money has to come from somewhere. You can borrow it from China, or you can "charge" the people who are making lot's of money from what the country itself gives them (call it land for potatoes or the laws that make jobs possible).
Since a president MUST make sure EVERYONE is ok, it would be terribly irresponsible and borderline retarded to let the ones that are growing just grow, and the ones that are suffering just keep suffering. Money has to come from some place, there is no other option (cause if you don't do anything about it, the entire society falls, it can't stand when there's an increasing section of the population falling into poverty or lacking education. Some will have a nice house with lots of commodities, but others will be poorer and poorer until they have no other choice than to break into those nice houses, and get what they need. Not because they're stupid people who don't want to work and like to take advantage of other's wealth, but because they have had NO EDUCATION and NO POSSIBILITIES, and they just don't know where the line between right and wrong stands anymore.

So yeah, if you ask me... The ones WHO CAN PAY, SHOULD PAY.
Loans are what took the US economy where it is right now. Everything most americans own is virtual. You don't have a Car and a nice house, you owe it. It is not yours, not till you pay everything, and when you're done paying it, you can no longer enjoy it.

What I (and many friends that also lived in the us) found unbelievably wrong about the US was that everyone we met (students) were gonna have to pay for their studies once they graduated. But while they're paying for that, they decide they want a nice new house and a car for their brand new family. So hey, let's borrow that. They ended up paying for three different debts... it's ridiculous, go around the world and ask people about how much sense does that make.
When your kids or grand kids don't need to do all that and have actual physical money in their bank accounts, you'll understand.
I don't know about you, but I'd rather give something today than know that my kids may end up homeless. Cause, go talk to those homeless people, some of them had a nice childhood...

I think I can speak for the rest of the world when I say you did ok, you picked the lesser of two evils this time.

romybian wrote:

OMG are you serious?
Yeah, let's make that 18 year old kid who has NO MONEY to pay for college, pay more taxes so those taxes go to making college more affordable.. More taxes to the homeless so they get free health care! YEAH! that's the way to go.
I don't mean to sound offensive but honestly, this goes way beyond my understanding.... I can't say it any other way.


Seriously, u've got to be kidding.
I'm shocked.

There is no law that says you have to live in the USA...if it bothers ya that badly, move.

dunkman wrote:

well the 'hope' is that you might realise you've used 'excepted' instead of 'accepted' and the 'change' might be you realising this and editing your post.

Always the grammar snob, I see!

OffHeGoes29 wrote:

Free huh? So no one pays taxes there? Or you don't pay taxes so it is free?

yeah i pay taxes towards healthcare, etc... but some people dont pay taxes so yes for them its 100% free... if i need medical treatment then yes, its free. you pay taxes also.. and if we both earned the same we'd both pay roughly the same in taxes except you'd have to find money for healthcare insurance as well as saving up for a college fund... i dont.. if i broke my leg tomorrow i'd be dealt with and my taxes wouldnt go up nor down as a result... you'd face a bill of thousands... i'm ok with my tax money paying for that... even if i didnt use it... but your tax money goes towards big bombs n cool death shit like that... enjoy

romybian wrote:

lol I guess that was me, I was taking it to the extreme.
Cause they asked "who should pay" and I meant, if those who have the money won't pay... is the 18 year old supposed to do it?.

well if this election shows nothing else, *extreme* is not what we as a country are looking for nor desire.


so when i see the question 'what have we done?'...i think....YEA! we made a fantastic move, and are looking for positive change for our country. no, i do not think obama is the end-all, be-all...but i think he is the best man for the job at this given point in time...and i do believe he wants to follow through, and help move our country in a positive arc. time will tell. it just amazes me that the man just got elected LAST NIGHT...and people already seem to think he's not pulling his weight, are all doom and gloom, etc. today, i am unbelievably HAPPY.

goo wrote:

what in the FUCK is this nation thinking voting for a person like Barack Obama, who has had such questionable associations with America-hating churches and comes from a Muslim background, etc. I just can't believe what a blind move we have made. This man has proven nothing concerning how he can protect us when we are attacked by terrorists again, which we will be. he has NO experience. like it or not, we are still at war, for those of you who have forgotten. I wasn't nuts about McCain either, but we at least needed someone who could get us through the war instead of someone who is just going to pull us out of it. the rest of the world has got to be laughing their asses off at us right now.

Not laughing, but I sure am smiling.
It must be terrible to live life in fear.

OffHeGoes29 wrote:

Its scary, but its still the best place to live.

Have you lived anywhere else? The US is alright I guess, but there's heaps of much better places to live in besides the US. Just to name a few:

- Iceland (highest human development index)
- Andorra (highest life expectancy besides being a tax haven)
- Japan (of the world's less violent and cleanest countries)
- Luxembourg (highest GDP per capita and no poverty whatsoever)

Not to mention bigger countries such as Australia, Canada the UK or pretty much every country in Western Europe.

dunkman wrote:

no you didnt... you just stated how backward and racist america still is (if i believe your post)... but not the world... america isnt the world... far from it.

Did I ever mention that I am really, truly in love with Scotland? You dudes rock the block