I believe we should welcome people of all kinds, but we're not going to change things around for you.
you do realize Native Americans were here before us right? Im sure you do Ima give you that much credit.
So my questions is: Where would all of us be if Native Americans had thought that same way you do? Welcome all those European folk but not change things around for them....
is it clearer now?
"Without the album covers, where do you clean your pot?" - EV
...why don't you sue me for being of the opinion that this nation has chosen the wrong man as it's president...
Welcome to how I have felt the last 8 years! And I wish I could tell you that I was wrong, but sadly, the current President Bush proved me right time after time after time, again and again and again.
I really wish we'd elected a 72 year old cancer survivor and a person who had to be told that Africa is a continent. I would be feeling much better if that were the case.
Doggone it. I wish I could vote again.
ok, first of all you're really cool for taking shots at a man, who by the way has tons of experience compared to Obama, for having a disease he can't help and for his age.
just like it would be just as disrespectful for me to say Obama is a bad choice for president because he is black (or half black). I'm pointing out things about him that he could have done something about. if he disagreed with Wright so much and agrees that his rants are anti-American, why the hell did he stay with that church as long as he did?
you're just further proving the amount of lameasses that make up the majority of this board. nice job.
ok, first of all you're really cool for taking shots at a man, who by the way has tons of experience compared to Obama, for having a disease he can't help and for his age.
just like it would be just as disrespectful for me to say Obama is a bad choice for president because he is black (or half black). I'm pointing out things about him that he could have done something about. if he disagreed with Wright so much and agrees that his rants are anti-American, why the hell did he stay with that church as long as he did?
you're just further proving the amount of lameasses that make up the majority of this board. nice job.
No, but his age is a factor, especially when he chooses someone as unfit for the job as Governor Palin.
And no you didn't mention him being black, but you did falsely accuse him of being a Muslim, as though that would be a bad thing even if it were true.
ok, first of all you're really cool for taking shots at a man, who by the way has tons of experience compared to Obama, for having a disease he can't help and for his age.
just like it would be just as disrespectful for me to say Obama is a bad choice for president because he is black (or half black). I'm pointing out things about him that he could have done something about. if he disagreed with Wright so much and agrees that his rants are anti-American, why the hell did he stay with that church as long as he did?
you're just further proving the amount of lameasses that make up the majority of this board. nice job.
Mentioning McCain's cancer and age is not a shot at him. I think that should have been pretty clear. Good lord.
My point was that it would have been extremely perilous and pretty damn stupid to elect someone with that age and health history whose running mate was a dunce.
But, if you want to make this argument about Rev. Wright, go ahead. Because that makes sense.
you do realize Native Americans were here before us right? Im sure you do Ima give you that much credit.
So my questions is: Where would all of us be if Native Americans had thought that same way you do? Welcome all those European folk but not change things around for them....
is it clearer now?
so what? that's not how it happened, was it? that was then, this is now. are you actually one of those people who still believes in the happy little story of how the pilgrims traveled over and the Indians immediately invited them over for the very first Thanksgiving? the Europeans stormed this continent and took what they wanted, killing the natives that opposed them. it's as if you are suggesting people should continue to come to our country acting tough like we are going to change for them, or else. if so, people like you are what's wrong with this country. and I stand by what I say... if one wants to pick up from their roots and move to this country, don't walk in thinking we owe you something. if I walked into a nation of Muslims and demanded them to take down and remove all the things that I disagree with about their way of life, I wouldn't last 5 seconds would I? and I think a person like you would agree. if it's any other nation than us, leave them alone right? but no, America should have to change for everyone. if these foreigners are offended by what our country was founded on, better find another place. we base a good deal of our laws on the Ten Commandments. how clear do I have to make it to you, our foundation was built on Christian values, and I don't believe it should change. I could easily see Obama trying to satisfy all the whiners and removing "One Nation Under God" from our currency, etc. we can all sit around and speculate all day, but it's useless. he's not in until Jan 20. ALL I AM SAYING is that it's not going to surprise me in the least if/when people starting kicking themselves for voting this man in. America will get what it has asked for. now, Mrs_Vedder78, what's your favorite color? I'd much rather talk with you about something we might actually agree on if this is going to continue.
lady, if it's a matter of whether he DID or DID NOT put his hand on the Koran to be sworn into the Senate... and if he DIDN'T, just say so! if he did, then I stand by every damn word I said. I'm used to people like you hating Christians for still standing up for morality and having standards. I'm not saying that Christians should all strictly be Republicans. that stereotype disgusts me. once again, why don't you sue me for being of the opinion that this nation has chosen the wrong man as it's president and for stating my reasons why I think so.
so what if he did? whats the problem?
would you prefer he take the oath with his hand on the quran, upholding every belief it espouses or swear on a book in whose words he doesnt believe because of prejudice?
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Although I agree with a lot of what you said, I disagree with this one. I voted for Obama - not because of his skin color - but because he was BY FAR the best choice for taking us out of the current messes we are in, from the economy to foreign policy to healthcare to energy/climate change.
If you listen to him, he never talks about being black until he is forced into it. I honestly don't think it's important to him, or that it will be a prime motivator or indicator of what he does as president.
What we needed was someone who is smart, who could stand up to the hateful smearmongers that the pathetic Republican party have become (shame on them, here's to hoping they reclaim some of their dignity in the coming years), and who could look beyond the partisanship and try to unify the country and get something done.
We may well be disappointed, but here's to hoping that Obama brings true change to our country. I'm currently cautiously enthusiastic. Go Team!
I understand your point. Still, I say this because there is no denying the significance of what his color means in a still racist society and also to people that are still being oppressed (ex.-gay people who want to marry). ANd for many people of darker skin it is VERY important just because of the progress it shows that Americans have made. SO, maybe it is not important to you but to those that are the same colored skin as Obama, it has great meaning and therefore I cannot help that it is a REAL issue to me because of them. See what I mean?
why? because it's un-American. yes we have all kinds of ethnic groups and different beliefs in this country. but I'm fed up with the audacity of people coming into this country demanding that we change the foundations on which America was built just to be "politically correct." every single stupid one of you is forgetting that this country was founded on C H R I S T I A N values. our forefathers would shit if they saw a man being sworn in as the President of the United States with his hand on the Koran and not the Bible, and that is actually what is about to happen here. that is not what this country is or what it should be. sue me for thinking it's a little more than scary for this nation to want to follow a man who followed this man for 20+ years:
.
Our founding fathers wanted separation of church and state....
And they weren't your typical christians either.... not like you at all
...you see back in the day there wasn't a religious right because if you strayed far from the church you were forced out of England to the Colonies.
Thomas Jefferson is often referred to as an atheist.
What has the last eight years of Republican rule gotten us? A stupid war for nothing, that's going to end up costing 2 trillion dollars. A deregulated economy that's in the shitter. Torture. The politicization of every facet of government, so that incompetent but loyal minons have gutted each and every department. FEMA/Katrina anyone? No-fucking-bid contracts. Out of control spending and tax cuts for the rich, with skyrocketing deficits. How's that trickle down working for you?
This was JOHN MCCAIN'S party.
Finally, FINALLY, the country comes to its senses and elects someone competent, reasonable, even handed, who doesn't need to resort to the politics of hate to make his arguments.
Take your bigoted, small-minded fear and stand aside - let the grownups handle the mess the Republicans have made.
I don't deny that it's important to many people. I respect that it's important to you.
But a lot of people (I don't mean you) these days seem to want to make this THE issue. It's not. All those other things you said are ahead of this issue in line.
what in the FUCK is this nation thinking voting for a person like Barack Obama, who has had such questionable associations with America-hating churches and comes from a Muslim background, etc. I just can't believe what a blind move we have made. This man has proven nothing concerning how he can protect us when we are attacked by terrorists again, which we will be. he has NO experience. like it or not, we are still at war, for those of you who have forgotten. I wasn't nuts about McCain either, but we at least needed someone who could get us through the war instead of someone who is just going to pull us out of it. the rest of the world has got to be laughing their asses off at us right now.
So.. you felt safer with frat boy in office for the past 8 years?
Seriously dude, the fear you have is fabricated. More people died last week in car accidents than terrorists killed us on 9/11. You should be more fearful driving to work than not being protected from terrorists.
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
Goo, your ranting and arguments based purely on lack of information or being filled with misinformation are growing tiring at this point. I could damn near go point by point countering your claims, but I sense that even if I did so that you would still not be even remotely open to changing your opinions or attitudes. So what would be the point? Let's counter just one of your poorly misinformed critiques.
Now, I encourage you to step back with a clear head and start reading all of the information presented about Obama on the site (both good and bad). Hell, even start a checklist to see how many lies you swallowed without an ounce of research. Check to see how many negative things you believed turned out to be true. You should find that you are pretty severely misinformed. You are ranting (in caps) about him not just saying he didn't get sworn in on the Quran and such and complaining that he should just say he wasn't if he wasn't. So I offered you exactly what you want. However, I'm quite sure that even that will not change your mind. Obama gives some credit to Americans and believes they are smarter than to believe all the nonsense being thrown out. Perhaps he gives too much credit?
Quit with the bitterness and see beyond the color of someone's skin and the deity they worship. And if you can't? Well, it's a very sad life you lead.
Been to this many PJ shows: Reading 2006 London 2007 Manchester & London 2009 Dublin, Belfast, London, Nijmegen & Berlin 2010 Manchester 1 & Manchester 2 2012...
... and I still think Drive-By Truckers are better.
HA!
just don't go to the red states and you'll be fine.
seriously......if this election proves nothing else, the majority of americans do NOT think like this. and even amongst all out lovely MT posters, quite honestly...i don't believe that the majority of posters who start threads such as this are truly serious. i think it's internet culture - oooooo, i'll get a rise out of all those leftys, ooooo i'll start some 'fun'.....etc.
there are people with warped views EVERYwhere....and perhaps we have a lot of em the states, dunno...i've run into my fair share just about everywhere. i just think we have such a HUGE populations, we have more of EVERYthing, all beliefs, etc.
Quit with the bitterness and see beyond the color of someone's skin and the deity they worship. And if you can't? Well, it's a very sad life you lead.
Hah, the Metro one is retarded, look at the very bottom
Then again, it's hardly usually a good paper either.
"I remember one night at Muzdalifa with nothing but the sky overhead, I lay awake amid sleeping Muslim brothers and I learned that pilgrims from every land — every colour, and class, and rank; high officials and the beggar alike — all snored in the same language"
Hah, the Metro one is retarded, look at the very bottom
Then again, it's hardly usually a good paper either.
Oh yeah they did an article on how Obama will look after 8 hard years in office... really worth the paper it was printed on :rolleyes:
It's like the National Enquirer of papers though, full of garbage! I just really like the headline
Been to this many PJ shows: Reading 2006 London 2007 Manchester & London 2009 Dublin, Belfast, London, Nijmegen & Berlin 2010 Manchester 1 & Manchester 2 2012...
... and I still think Drive-By Truckers are better.
Joe Biden has been in Washington for how long???? It happened on all their watch, but certainly on the idiots in congress for more than 7 years.
Rich like a chocolate lave cake and oozing in goodness? So, you complimented me, eh?
My president to president comparison wasn't clear, I guess. I thought it was pretty straight foward.
There is no such thing as leftover pizza. There is now pizza and later pizza. - anonymous The risk I took was calculated, but man, am I bad at math - The Mincing Mockingbird
Goo, You are incorrect when you say that this country was founded on Christian beliefs. The writers of the constitution felt that freedom of religion is paramount. Here is a link to Thomas Jefferson quotes about religion. http://etext.lib.virginia.edu/jefferson/quotations/jeff1650.htm
And I think you should look at the history of Christian religions. Christians have been some of the most brutal killers in the name of their God.
In the New Testament, Jesus Christ is quoted as saying that he had come to bring the sword, to "set father against son and mother against daughter" (Luke 12:53) and called on his followers to "But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me" (Luke 19:27).
Here's one example, "These words have, in the history of Christianity, been enacted in bloody reality many times - starting when an important political rebellion against the Roman Catholic Church took on a religious slant - leading to the split in European Christendom between Catholic and Protestant. This split sparked off a series of religious wars which were ultimately to be responsible for the death of nearly a third of the entire White race."
107 total First-Summerfest, Milwaukee '95 Most recent: 2018 Stadium shows: Seattle 2, Missoula, Fenway 1 and 2; 2022: Oakland 1 and 2
Comments
ok this is was your quote:
you do realize Native Americans were here before us right? Im sure you do Ima give you that much credit.
So my questions is: Where would all of us be if Native Americans had thought that same way you do? Welcome all those European folk but not change things around for them....
is it clearer now?
I wish I knew what you were talking about, but I don't watch Family Guy.
:eek: I know, everyone loves it....but I don't!
Now that is a fact!
http://www.videosift.com/video/Family-Guy-Trivial-Pursuit-Firetruck
It's worth watching.
lol, ok that was very funny...and probably very similar to Sarah Palin's debate prep.
ok, first of all you're really cool for taking shots at a man, who by the way has tons of experience compared to Obama, for having a disease he can't help and for his age.
just like it would be just as disrespectful for me to say Obama is a bad choice for president because he is black (or half black). I'm pointing out things about him that he could have done something about. if he disagreed with Wright so much and agrees that his rants are anti-American, why the hell did he stay with that church as long as he did?
you're just further proving the amount of lameasses that make up the majority of this board. nice job.
And no you didn't mention him being black, but you did falsely accuse him of being a Muslim, as though that would be a bad thing even if it were true.
Mentioning McCain's cancer and age is not a shot at him. I think that should have been pretty clear. Good lord.
My point was that it would have been extremely perilous and pretty damn stupid to elect someone with that age and health history whose running mate was a dunce.
But, if you want to make this argument about Rev. Wright, go ahead. Because that makes sense.
so what? that's not how it happened, was it? that was then, this is now. are you actually one of those people who still believes in the happy little story of how the pilgrims traveled over and the Indians immediately invited them over for the very first Thanksgiving? the Europeans stormed this continent and took what they wanted, killing the natives that opposed them. it's as if you are suggesting people should continue to come to our country acting tough like we are going to change for them, or else. if so, people like you are what's wrong with this country. and I stand by what I say... if one wants to pick up from their roots and move to this country, don't walk in thinking we owe you something. if I walked into a nation of Muslims and demanded them to take down and remove all the things that I disagree with about their way of life, I wouldn't last 5 seconds would I? and I think a person like you would agree. if it's any other nation than us, leave them alone right? but no, America should have to change for everyone. if these foreigners are offended by what our country was founded on, better find another place. we base a good deal of our laws on the Ten Commandments. how clear do I have to make it to you, our foundation was built on Christian values, and I don't believe it should change. I could easily see Obama trying to satisfy all the whiners and removing "One Nation Under God" from our currency, etc. we can all sit around and speculate all day, but it's useless. he's not in until Jan 20. ALL I AM SAYING is that it's not going to surprise me in the least if/when people starting kicking themselves for voting this man in. America will get what it has asked for. now, Mrs_Vedder78, what's your favorite color? I'd much rather talk with you about something we might actually agree on if this is going to continue.
so what if he did? whats the problem?
would you prefer he take the oath with his hand on the quran, upholding every belief it espouses or swear on a book in whose words he doesnt believe because of prejudice?
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
McCain's failure is kinda like a flu shot for conservatism, in my view. You get a little sick, only to emerge stronger thereafter.
I understand your point. Still, I say this because there is no denying the significance of what his color means in a still racist society and also to people that are still being oppressed (ex.-gay people who want to marry). ANd for many people of darker skin it is VERY important just because of the progress it shows that Americans have made. SO, maybe it is not important to you but to those that are the same colored skin as Obama, it has great meaning and therefore I cannot help that it is a REAL issue to me because of them. See what I mean?
http://www.facebook.com/reqs.php#!/profile.php?ref=profile&id=1434776887
kristal_007@msn.com
Why does it look like it will be a disaster? Specifics please
Our founding fathers wanted separation of church and state....
And they weren't your typical christians either.... not like you at all
...you see back in the day there wasn't a religious right because if you strayed far from the church you were forced out of England to the Colonies.
Thomas Jefferson is often referred to as an atheist.
knock yourself out with some of this history...
http://freethought.mbdojo.com/foundingfathers.html
http://www.nobeliefs.com/jefferson.htm
http://www.skeptically.org/thinkersonreligion/id9.html
http://www.usnews.com/usnews/culture/articles/040628/28faith.htm
What has the last eight years of Republican rule gotten us? A stupid war for nothing, that's going to end up costing 2 trillion dollars. A deregulated economy that's in the shitter. Torture. The politicization of every facet of government, so that incompetent but loyal minons have gutted each and every department. FEMA/Katrina anyone? No-fucking-bid contracts. Out of control spending and tax cuts for the rich, with skyrocketing deficits. How's that trickle down working for you?
This was JOHN MCCAIN'S party.
Finally, FINALLY, the country comes to its senses and elects someone competent, reasonable, even handed, who doesn't need to resort to the politics of hate to make his arguments.
Take your bigoted, small-minded fear and stand aside - let the grownups handle the mess the Republicans have made.
I don't deny that it's important to many people. I respect that it's important to you.
But a lot of people (I don't mean you) these days seem to want to make this THE issue. It's not. All those other things you said are ahead of this issue in line.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVynnbx1Xsc
Seriously dude, the fear you have is fabricated. More people died last week in car accidents than terrorists killed us on 9/11. You should be more fearful driving to work than not being protected from terrorists.
http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/muslim.asp
Now, I encourage you to step back with a clear head and start reading all of the information presented about Obama on the site (both good and bad). Hell, even start a checklist to see how many lies you swallowed without an ounce of research. Check to see how many negative things you believed turned out to be true. You should find that you are pretty severely misinformed. You are ranting (in caps) about him not just saying he didn't get sworn in on the Quran and such and complaining that he should just say he wasn't if he wasn't. So I offered you exactly what you want. However, I'm quite sure that even that will not change your mind. Obama gives some credit to Americans and believes they are smarter than to believe all the nonsense being thrown out. Perhaps he gives too much credit?
I agree with so many points in here, Obama was the best choice to get America out of the horrible mess it's got into over the last 8 years.
I don't really need to say a lot, just take a look at the British press headlines this morning:
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j90/gruftyzombie/paper4.jpg
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j90/gruftyzombie/paper3.jpg
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j90/gruftyzombie/paper2.jpg
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j90/gruftyzombie/paper.jpg
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j90/gruftyzombie/metro.png
The world is celebrating.
Quit with the bitterness and see beyond the color of someone's skin and the deity they worship. And if you can't? Well, it's a very sad life you lead.
... and I still think Drive-By Truckers are better.
HA!
just don't go to the red states and you'll be fine.
seriously......if this election proves nothing else, the majority of americans do NOT think like this. and even amongst all out lovely MT posters, quite honestly...i don't believe that the majority of posters who start threads such as this are truly serious. i think it's internet culture - oooooo, i'll get a rise out of all those leftys, ooooo i'll start some 'fun'.....etc.
there are people with warped views EVERYwhere....and perhaps we have a lot of em the states, dunno...i've run into my fair share just about everywhere. i just think we have such a HUGE populations, we have more of EVERYthing, all beliefs, etc.
come to NY!
you'd love us here!
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
Then again, it's hardly usually a good paper either.
Oh yeah they did an article on how Obama will look after 8 hard years in office... really worth the paper it was printed on :rolleyes:
It's like the National Enquirer of papers though, full of garbage! I just really like the headline
... and I still think Drive-By Truckers are better.
My president to president comparison wasn't clear, I guess. I thought it was pretty straight foward.
The risk I took was calculated, but man, am I bad at math - The Mincing Mockingbird
And I think you should look at the history of Christian religions. Christians have been some of the most brutal killers in the name of their God.
In the New Testament, Jesus Christ is quoted as saying that he had come to bring the sword, to "set father against son and mother against daughter" (Luke 12:53) and called on his followers to "But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me" (Luke 19:27).
Here's one example, "These words have, in the history of Christianity, been enacted in bloody reality many times - starting when an important political rebellion against the Roman Catholic Church took on a religious slant - leading to the split in European Christendom between Catholic and Protestant. This split sparked off a series of religious wars which were ultimately to be responsible for the death of nearly a third of the entire White race."
Most recent: 2018 Stadium shows: Seattle 2, Missoula, Fenway 1 and 2; 2022: Oakland 1 and 2