Comparative Religion: Godmen

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  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    angelica wrote:
    If you understood the concept of signifiers, you'd realize the presuppositions you rely on with each word you speak, much less with each idea you "believe". And you believe some things with evangelic fervor. With all that presupposing going on, it's very easy to overlook reality.

    Each word presupposes the concept you refer to and defines a concept, rather than allowing an experience of a concept to "be" as it Is. Rather than existing and experiencing life, each theory and idea detaches us from life.

    You must use signifiers to describe signifiers, and that is circular logic Angelica. It's like saying that because our brain only transduces reality and all experience of reality is subjective, that reality does not exist outside the brain, but this all depends on the brain physically existing in reality, so it's a flawed circular logic.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • Jeanie
    Jeanie Posts: 9,446
    angelica wrote:
    Wait, I think I completely glossed over this. I've not ever had an out of body experience. I haven't put in serious discipline with that either, since it would probably freak me out to do so. Any of my efforts were half-hearted.

    I've sorta had it happen but mostly sporadic, times of stress kinda things.
    Although once or twice when sleeping.

    It is freaky and like you I'm not so sure I would want to discipline myself to try to do it at other times. But I suspect maybe, further down the track, I may to "control" it myself somehow. :)
    NOPE!!!

    *~You're IT Bert!~*

    Hold on to the thread
    The currents will shift
  • angelica
    angelica Posts: 6,038
    Ahnimus wrote:
    You must use signifiers to describe signifiers, and that is circular logic Angelica. It's like saying that because our brain only transduces reality and all experience of reality is subjective, that reality does not exist outside the brain, but this all depends on the brain physically existing in reality, so it's a flawed circular logic.
    Exactly my point. All of this logic and the emotions that stem from logic are a bunch of delusional nonsense. What is real, pure, and unadulterated is experience. Not what we think about experience. Not what we feel about experience. But living, freely in each moment. All the rest is ego. Our thoughts and emotions change and fluctuate--they do not stay the same. Our experiences always remain real at base, no matter what we think or feel about them.

    I have to speak in terms of the amusement park ride, since people wouldn't hear me otherwise.



    "The world is like a ride at an amusement park. It goes up and down and round and round. It has thrills and chills and it's very brightly coloured and it's very loud and it's fun, for a while. Some people have been on the ride for a long time, and they begin to question: Is this real, or is this just a ride? And other people have remembered, and they come back to us, they say, "Hey - don't worry, don't be afraid, ever, because, this is just a ride... It's just a ride. And we can change it anytime we want. It's only a choice. No effort, no work, no job, no savings and money. A choice, right now, between fear and love. The eyes of fear want you to put bigger locks on your doors, buy guns, close yourself off. The eyes of love, instead, see all of us as one.” ~Bill Hicks
    "The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr

    http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta

    Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    angelica wrote:
    Exactly my point. All of this logic and the emotions that stem from logic are a bunch of delusional nonsense. What is real, pure, and unadulterated is experience. Not what we think about experience. Not what we feel about experience. But living, freely in each moment. All the rest is ego. Our thoughts and emotions change and fluctuate--they do not stay the same. Our experiences always remain real at base, no matter what we think or feel about them.

    I have to speak in terms of the amusement park ride, since people wouldn't hear me otherwise.

    "The world is like a ride at an amusement park. It goes up and down and round and round. It has thrills and chills and it's very brightly coloured and it's very loud and it's fun, for a while. Some people have been on the ride for a long time, and they begin to question: Is this real, or is this just a ride? And other people have remembered, and they come back to us, they say, "Hey - don't worry, don't be afraid, ever, because, this is just a ride... It's just a ride. And we can change it anytime we want. It's only a choice. No effort, no work, no job, no savings and money. A choice, right now, between fear and love. The eyes of fear want you to put bigger locks on your doors, buy guns, close yourself off. The eyes of love, instead, see all of us as one.” ~Bill Hicks

    You've lost me with the amusement park ride. Let me get you straight. Reason/Logic is bad and delusional? Experience is truth? That is so wrong Angelica, so wrong, it's the absolute wrongiest wrong you could wrong. It's the same bullshit Catholocism and tryannical dictators have fed us for centuries.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • angelica
    angelica Posts: 6,038
    Jeanie wrote:
    I've sorta had it happen but mostly sporadic, times of stress kinda things.
    Although once or twice when sleeping.

    It is freaky and like you I'm not so sure I would want to discipline myself to try to do it at other times. But I suspect maybe, further down the track, I may to "control" it myself somehow. :)
    My boyfriend has had numerous out of body experiences, too.

    That's cool that you have had such experiences. I would imagine it opens one up to question our attachment to what some of us feel we are: our body.
    "The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr

    http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta

    Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
  • angelica
    angelica Posts: 6,038
    Ahnimus wrote:
    You've lost me with the amusement park ride. Let me get you straight. Reason/Logic is bad and delusional? Experience is truth? That is so wrong Angelica, so wrong, it's the absolute wrongiest wrong you could wrong. It's the same bullshit Catholocism and tryannical dictators have fed us for centuries.
    Last year, you were on this board encouraging people to watch "What the Bleep Do We Know". You said people would be hurting themselves to miss it.

    Now you believe the exact opposite. You prove that your thoughts change. What if they change and you diametrically oppose yourself next year again?

    No matter what, as any one of us is sitting in front of a computer right now, that will never change. Two days from now, you will be totally unable to go back in time to today and change that. That action cannot be erased. If you rub your eye right now, no matter what your thoughts, feelings or emotions, that action is what it is, and will never change. You will segue into new actions in each moment, but your actions are always the truth. Your existence, and how you act out your being is always true. Beliefs, ideas and theories come and go--they are impermanent.
    "The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr

    http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta

    Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
  • lucylespian
    lucylespian Posts: 2,403
    angelica wrote:
    Exactly my point. All of this logic and the emotions that stem from logic are a bunch of delusional nonsense. What is real, pure, and unadulterated is experience. Not what we think about experience. Not what we feel about experience. But living, freely in each moment. All the rest is ego. Our thoughts and emotions change and fluctuate--they do not stay the same. Our experiences always remain real at base, no matter what we think or feel about them.

    I have to speak in terms of the amusement park ride, since people wouldn't hear me otherwise.



    "The world is like a ride at an amusement park. It goes up and down and round and round. It has thrills and chills and it's very brightly coloured and it's very loud and it's fun, for a while. Some people have been on the ride for a long time, and they begin to question: Is this real, or is this just a ride? And other people have remembered, and they come back to us, they say, "Hey - don't worry, don't be afraid, ever, because, this is just a ride... It's just a ride. And we can change it anytime we want. It's only a choice. No effort, no work, no job, no savings and money. A choice, right now, between fear and love. The eyes of fear want you to put bigger locks on your doors, buy guns, close yourself off. The eyes of love, instead, see all of us as one.” ~Bill Hicks

    This is exactly what I mean with my new signature.

    If you keep jamming one experinece after another into your life wihtout any pause or space between, there is no life and it all becomes just a meaningless jumble. There also needs to be risk in this world. LAwyers and insureance companies adn other fear-monger would have us beileve that we can reduce risk to zero, but we can't but we can suffocate trying.
    Music is not a competetion.
  • angelica
    angelica Posts: 6,038
    lucylespian wrote:
    This is exactly what I mean with my new signature.

    If you keep jamming one experinece after another into your life wihtout any pause or space between, there is no life and it all becomes just a meaningless jumble. There also needs to be risk in this world. LAwyers and insureance companies adn other fear-monger would have us beileve that we can reduce risk to zero, but we can't but we can suffocate trying.
    I totally agree with you about music being in the spaces. And life, too.

    I love the line from the movie "Strictly Ballroom" (Australian movie, too, I believe!) : "A life lived in fear is a life half lived". I love that movie!

    I cried when I first heard that line, because I was coming out the other side of a horrific anxiety disorder, and learning to deal with fear, consciously, instead of unconsciously. I spent much of my life with serious to severe anxiety. Life beyond fear is stellar.
    "The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr

    http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta

    Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
  • Jeanie
    Jeanie Posts: 9,446
    angelica wrote:
    My boyfriend has had numerous out of body experiences, too.

    Awesome! :) Mine too! ;)
    angelica wrote:
    That's cool that you have had such experiences. I would imagine it opens one up to question our attachment to what some of us feel we are: our body.

    Yeah, I guess illness does that too angel. Actually so does sexual assault, and negative puberty experiences now that I think of it.

    I learned a long time ago that "me" is just living in this out casing and not so happily some times.
    NOPE!!!

    *~You're IT Bert!~*

    Hold on to the thread
    The currents will shift
  • angelica
    angelica Posts: 6,038
    Jeanie wrote:
    Thank you angel. :) That's pretty much exactly what I was looking for from someone. :) And how interesting that it was you, because I wondered when I was weighing up whether or not to post about it if you would be the one to know what I was talking about. :)
    Much like yourself, I struggle to pick a team, and am more for exploring options peacefully and making up my own mind what will serve as a useful tool for my life or not.

    :D I'm still completely struggling with the whole fins conversation, but that's cool. It'll come to me eventually! :D
    You are so welcome, jeanie. It's cool because I hadn't thought much about Eckankar at all through the years, except lately, when I've noticed my own routine resonates with what I remember from back then.

    I advocate that approach--of doing exactly what works, and gauging by our own inner standard, because only you know for you. And only I know for me. I've learned to very quickly assess what works and what does not, because I completely trust my own inner sense. I let go of what is not for me. And my intuition will draw my attention to exactly what I need to know.
    "The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr

    http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta

    Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
  • Jeanie
    Jeanie Posts: 9,446
    angelica wrote:
    "The world is like a ride at an amusement park. It goes up and down and round and round. It has thrills and chills and it's very brightly coloured and it's very loud and it's fun, for a while. Some people have been on the ride for a long time, and they begin to question: Is this real, or is this just a ride? And other people have remembered, and they come back to us, they say, "Hey - don't worry, don't be afraid, ever, because, this is just a ride... It's just a ride. And we can change it anytime we want. It's only a choice. No effort, no work, no job, no savings and money. A choice, right now, between fear and love. The eyes of fear want you to put bigger locks on your doors, buy guns, close yourself off. The eyes of love, instead, see all of us as one.” ~Bill Hicks

    Thank you angel. :)

    I'll be saving this one for the notice board in my room. :)
    NOPE!!!

    *~You're IT Bert!~*

    Hold on to the thread
    The currents will shift
  • angelica
    angelica Posts: 6,038
    Jeanie wrote:
    Awesome! :) Mine too! ;)



    Yeah, I guess illness does that too angel. Actually so does sexual assault, and negative puberty experiences now that I think of it.

    I learned a long time ago that "me" is just living in this out casing and not so happily some times.
    I definitely asked your boyfriend numerous questions about that, too, because it's fascinating to me.

    It's interesting the way you talk about this, because I have been a generally very disassociated person, due to trauma, as well. It's been a big challenge for me to learn to ground myself and to be in myself. So, naturally my energy is very dispersed. If you are a similar personality type to my own, I know my own is prone to having the least boundaries/grounding of all types. If I can stay grounded, it's a huge gift because I can understand all kinds of things about others, empathically. Or even about life and the environment--I perceive it. And again, it's crucial to stay grounded, because if I lose touch with the person doing the perceiving, I'm totally lost and confused.
    "The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr

    http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta

    Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
  • catefrances
    catefrances Posts: 29,003
    jesus, sometimes i think my whole life in an out of body experience.
    hear my name
    take a good look
    this could be the day
    hold my hand
    lie beside me
    i just need to say
  • angelica
    angelica Posts: 6,038
    Jeanie wrote:
    Thank you angel. :)

    I'll be saving this one for the notice board in my room. :)
    You are welcome. I first heard the quote out here, too, when El Kabong started a thread about it. Thanks El Kabong! Obviously it's made an impression on me. I did edit it here with ellipses for my purposes, but this is it in its entirety:


    "The world is like a ride at an amusement park. It goes up and down and round and round. It has thrills and chills and it's very brightly coloured and it's very loud and it's fun, for a while. Some people have been on the ride for a long time, and they begin to question: Is this real, or is this just a ride? And other people have remembered, and they come back to us, they say, "Hey - don't worry, don't be afraid, ever, because, this is just a ride...” But we always kill those good guys who try and tell us that, you ever notice that? And let the demons run amok. Jesus - murdered; Martin Luther King - murdered; Malcolm X - murdered; Gandhi - murdered; John Lennon - murdered; Reagan... wounded. But it doesn't matter because: It's just a ride. And we can change it anytime we want. It's only a choice. No effort, no work, no job, no savings and money. A choice, right now, between fear and love. The eyes of fear want you to put bigger locks on your doors, buy guns, close yourself off. The eyes of love, instead, see all of us as one. Here's what we can do to change the world, right now, to a better ride. Take all that money that we spend on weapons and defenses each year and instead spend it feeding and clothing and educating the poor of the world, which it would many times over, not one human being excluded, and we could explore space, together, both inner and outer, forever, in peace." ~ Bill Hicks
    "The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr

    http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta

    Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
  • Jeanie
    Jeanie Posts: 9,446
    angelica wrote:
    You are so welcome, jeanie. It's cool because I hadn't thought much about Eckankar at all through the years, except lately, when I've noticed my own routine resonates with what I remember from back then.

    I advocate that approach--of doing exactly what works, and gauging by our own inner standard, because only you know for you. And only I know for me. I've learned to very quickly assess what works and what does not, because I completely trust my own inner sense. I let go of what is not for me. And my intuition will draw my attention to exactly what I need to know.


    Yes. I find that I am much like that myself, except that I also accept that some days, I will not be able to rely on my intuition, because some days I'm tired, or cranky or angry, and that's ok, I just need to try to go gently on myself and those around me on those days. Some days, I'm not capable of making good choices so it's best to avoid doing so on those days. And it's all good. Not that I always want to but I think it's important to embrace all facets of one's personality, good, bad and indifferent and to be accepting of that. It's all within the range of human emotion and needs to be acknowledged and understood. It's part of who I am. :)
    NOPE!!!

    *~You're IT Bert!~*

    Hold on to the thread
    The currents will shift
  • Jeanie
    Jeanie Posts: 9,446
    catefrances wrote:
    jesus, sometimes i think my whole life in an out of body experience.

    Yes but what a life cate!! :)
    NOPE!!!

    *~You're IT Bert!~*

    Hold on to the thread
    The currents will shift
  • catefrances
    catefrances Posts: 29,003
    Jeanie wrote:
    Yes but what a life cate!! :)

    its no life jeanie.
    sometimes i wonder that if i just believe in God and have that faith then he'll reward me and allow me to find the peace i want.
    hear my name
    take a good look
    this could be the day
    hold my hand
    lie beside me
    i just need to say
  • norm
    norm Posts: 31,146
    angelica wrote:
    Exactly my point. All of this logic and the emotions that stem from logic are a bunch of delusional nonsense. What is real, pure, and unadulterated is experience. Not what we think about experience. Not what we feel about experience. But living, freely in each moment. All the rest is ego. Our thoughts and emotions change and fluctuate--they do not stay the same. Our experiences always remain real at base, no matter what we think or feel about them.


    thank you for this, angelica........:o:)
  • angelica
    angelica Posts: 6,038
    Jeanie wrote:
    Yes. I find that I am much like that myself, except that I also accept that some days, I will not be able to rely on my intuition, because some days I'm tired, or cranky or angry, and that's ok, I just need to try to go gently on myself and those around me on those days. Some days, I'm not capable of making good choices so it's best to avoid doing so on those days. And it's all good. Not that I always want to but I think it's important to embrace all facets of one's personality, good, bad and indifferent and to be accepting of that. It's all within the range of human emotion and needs to be acknowledged and understood. It's part of who I am. :)
    Yeah, I was completely out of touch with my emotions in my disassociations, for years, with the result being mental illness. I completely agree, it's very important to accept it all, unconditionally. And I also definitely have times I don't act, or decide, and I embrace that as well.
    "The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr

    http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta

    Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
  • Jeanie
    Jeanie Posts: 9,446
    angelica wrote:
    I definitely asked your boyfriend numerous questions about that, too, because it's fascinating to me.

    It's interesting the way you talk about this, because I have been a generally very disassociated person, due to trauma, as well. It's been a big challenge for me to learn to ground myself and to be in myself. So, naturally my energy is very dispersed. If you are a similar personality type to my own, I know my own is prone to having the least boundaries/grounding of all types. If I can stay grounded, it's a huge gift because I can understand all kinds of things about others, empathically. Or even about life and the environment--I perceive it. And again, it's crucial to stay grounded, because if I lose touch with the person doing the perceiving, I'm totally lost and confused.

    Yep! That's him! A fascinating individual with a good heart! :)

    I don't know if I disassociate, I've just had to understand, repeatedly it would seem, that my body is not me. And that I am not my body. That we are seperate. As well as together. My body does things that I do not want it to do, and despite my best efforts to get it to stop, it does not. So sometimes, my body is the boss of me. But I give it a good run for it's money! Sometimes we are seperate and sometimes we are united. I am as kind to my body as I can be and far kinder to it than it is to itself or than some others have been to it. But I confess to getting fed up with it sometimes!
    And I think that's where the questioning comes in. I think if you understand just how seperate you really are from your body and just how alone you really are in this world then you are forced to look outside the casing for answers. :) And once you recognize this, I think it's much easier to recognize the same in others. :)
    NOPE!!!

    *~You're IT Bert!~*

    Hold on to the thread
    The currents will shift

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