Comparative Religion: Godmen

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  • angelicaangelica Posts: 6,038
    gue_barium wrote:
    You aren't one of them.

    Get used to it.
    "When the voice and vision on the inside become more profound and clear than the opinions on the outside, then you have mastered your life" ~ The Secret. :)
    "The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr

    http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta

    Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
  • AhnimusAhnimus Posts: 10,560
    angelica wrote:
    It ignores known facts in the same way Star Trek ignored the fact that we did not yet have personal computers or tiny cell-phones back in the sixties.

    Just like the book I'm writing ignores the basic known psychiatric and psychological facts about mental illness.

    You told me yesterday to stop following the theories of those dudes re: consciousness. I don't follow their theories. I've been shown these concepts spiritually. I know they exist. I don't know whether facts/details etc are always accurate--for that I must rely on science. I understand some universal truths in the way the average person does not, and I am writing a book to challenge prevalent thought, so that people, including the mental health care field, when exposed to expanded thought, expand their horizons and our awareness of what is possible. I well know--like the makers of this movie--that I can dramatically affect people by influencing the masses. This is how our evolution works. Certain people bring new thought to the masses.

    Actually Star Trek was science fiction, it never claimed to be fact like What the BLEEP does. Further Star-Trek was not a major stretch of known facts like Quantum Mind theory is.

    To ignore brain damage as a major indication that classical physics has something to with consciousness is deceitful.

    You could benefit from a good dose of skepticism Angelica
    http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/view/id/22
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • AhnimusAhnimus Posts: 10,560
    angelica wrote:
    "When the voice and vision on the inside become more profound and clear than the opinions on the outside, then you have mastered your life" ~ The Secret. :)

    "When the voice and vision on the inside become more profound and clear than the opinions on the outside, you are insane." - Me
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • angelicaangelica Posts: 6,038
    Ahnimus wrote:
    I actually disprove free-will and propose determinism as the best theory.

    As I stated before, if free-will is the same for everyone it cannot be the source variation in human behavior. If it is different, then the variation must be explained and such variation would be caused by something external to the free-will and thus would not be free. The theory of free-will does not work.

    Fred Alan Wolf is but one person, and to say that it "is accepted within physics, by physicists" is factually wrong. As stated above, one of the most prominent Physicists in the film was misrepresented. If it was such an accepted interpretation, they would not need to misrepresent, or lie about it.

    If you have disproved free-will, that is within the context you are disproving it. Apparently that works for you. You have not disproven it within the context I experience/observe/know/conceptualize it.

    The complementarity principle is widely accepted in physics--in my understanding it is not at all in dispute. Fred Alan Wolf speaks to an interpretation of complementarity. Just like you speak to an interpretation of free-will and determinism. It's definitely fair game--his accuracy is true to his context. Just like the accuracy of "What the Bleep" is true to it's context.
    "The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr

    http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta

    Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
  • AhnimusAhnimus Posts: 10,560
    angelica wrote:
    If you have disproved free-will, that is within the context you are disproving it. Apparently that works for you. You have not disproven it within the context I experience/observe/know/conceptualize it.

    The complementarity principle is widely accepted in physics--in my understanding it is not at all in dispute. Fred Alan Wolf speaks to an interpretation of complementarity. Just like you speak to an interpretation of free-will and determinism. It's definitely fair game--his accuracy is true to his context. Just like the accuracy of "What the Bleep" is true to it's context.

    The context? What are you talking about now? Perverse philosophy?
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • angelicaangelica Posts: 6,038
    "Imagination is everything. It is the preview of life's coming attractions." ~ Albert Einstein.
    "The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr

    http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta

    Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
  • gue_bariumgue_barium Posts: 5,515
    angelica wrote:
    "When the voice and vision on the inside become more profound and clear than the opinions on the outside, then you have mastered your life" ~ The Secret. :)

    When the voice and the vision you recorded on your camcorder look and sound better than you thought they would, you feel ok.

    all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
    except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
  • gue_bariumgue_barium Posts: 5,515
    angelica wrote:
    "Imagination is everything. It is the preview of life's coming attractions." ~ Albert Einstein.

    Angelica is grasping, her imagination is turmoiled.

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    except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
  • angelicaangelica Posts: 6,038
    Ahnimus wrote:
    The context? What are you talking about now? Perverse philosophy?
    You've proven in this thread that your interpretation of the premise of "What the Bleep" is inaccurate to what their actual premise is. Therefore, when you critique the premise, your entire critique is false and therefore inaccurate.

    When you submit a critique by yourself or others, of the movie, what I'm seeing is you and others critiquing your ideas of what the movie is about, because you don't actually understand what the movie is about.

    Epistemology is a well-known and valid aspect of philosophy. Your presuppositions determine what you see.
    "The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr

    http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta

    Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
  • angelicaangelica Posts: 6,038
    Ahnimus wrote:
    Actually Star Trek was science fiction, it never claimed to be fact like What the BLEEP does.
    You are holding What the Bleep to your own context, again, rather than it's actual context that weaves science in with religion, philosophy, psychology and even magical thinking, as stated on their website.
    "The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr

    http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta

    Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
  • gue_bariumgue_barium Posts: 5,515
    angelica wrote:
    You are holding What the Bleep to your own context, again, rather than it's actual context that weaves science in with religion, philosophy, psychology and even magical thinking, as stated on their website.

    Just love somebody, for crissakes, damned the world.

    all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
    except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
  • AhnimusAhnimus Posts: 10,560
    "A person starts to live when he can live outside himself."

    "I never think of the future. It comes soon enough."

    "Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind."

    "Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler."

    "We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."

    "The important thing is not to stop questioning. Curiosity has its own reason for existing."

    "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."

    "...one of the strongest motives that lead men to art and science is escape from everyday life with its painful crudity and hopeless dreariness, from the fetters of one's own ever-shifting desires. A finely tempered nature longs to escape from the personal life into the world of objective perception and thought."

    "A human being is a part of a whole, called by us _universe_, a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feelings as something separated from the rest... a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness. This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and to affection for a few persons nearest to us. Our task must be to free ourselves from this prison by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature in its beauty."

    "Everything is determined, the beginning as well as the end, by forces over which we have no control. It is determined for the insect as well as the star. Human beings, vegetables, or cosmic dust, we all dance to a mysterious tune, intoned in the distance by an invisible piper." - Albert Einstein

    Einstein was a smart dude, but... limited. If you look up his quotes you see contradictions and he's just one dude. Einstein was upset that people quoted him as evidence of the Christian God. Likewise, he would be upset that we quote him as evidence for our views.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • AhnimusAhnimus Posts: 10,560
    angelica wrote:
    You are holding What the Bleep to your own context, again, rather than it's actual context that weaves science in with religion, philosophy, psychology and even magical thinking, as stated on their website.

    Actually, I just listened to an interview with the film maker, as well as Fred Wolf, Michael Shermer and some callers. The film maker admits that he knows nothing about any of it and made the film as a piece of art. He was criticized for not presenting critical views of the theory proposed in the movie and said that he just mashed a bunch of shit together to make a buck.

    It's quite genius, because it appeals to the emotional desires of people and he's made a lot of money on misdirection and lies.

    The context is, it's bullshit.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • AhnimusAhnimus Posts: 10,560
    I'm still waiting for someone to reconcile free-will with this conflict of it not doing anything or not being the cause of variation.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • angelicaangelica Posts: 6,038
    Ahnimus wrote:
    Actually, I just listened to an interview with the film maker, as well as Fred Wolf, Michael Shermer and some callers. The film maker admits that he knows nothing about any of it and made the film as a piece of art. He was criticized for not presenting critical views of the theory proposed in the movie and said that he just mashed a bunch of shit together to make a buck.
    Where's the link?
    "The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr

    http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta

    Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
  • angelicaangelica Posts: 6,038
    Ahnimus wrote:
    I'm still waiting for someone to reconcile free-will with this conflict of it not doing anything or not being the cause of variation.
    You're the one with the conflict. If you expect people outside of your to resolve it, you'll be seeing that conflict for a very long time.
    "The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr

    http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta

    Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
  • gue_bariumgue_barium Posts: 5,515
    I love you, Angelica.

    all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
    except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
  • AhnimusAhnimus Posts: 10,560
    angelica wrote:
    You're the one with the conflict. If you expect people outside of your to resolve it, you'll be seeing that conflict for a very long time.

    I don't believe in free-will so I am not in conflict.

    You explain it as something unexplainable which does not explain anything. See the conflict in your own thoughts. Get off your soapbox of enlightenment and realize how ignorant you really are to human nature.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • angelica wrote:
    "Imagination is everything. It is the preview of life's coming attractions." ~ Albert Einstein.

    :)

    "Every creative act involves...a new innocence of perception, liberated from the cataract of accepted belief."
    - Arthur Koestler

    "In times of change, learners inherit the earth, while the learned find themselves beautifully equipped to deal with a world that no longer exists"
    - Hoffa


    'Stop thinking in terms of limitations and start thinking in terms of possibilities'
    - Terry Josephson

    'The people who are crazy enough to think they can change the world are the ones who do'
    - Steve Jobs

    'The illiterate of the 21st century will not be those who cannot read and write, but those who cannot learn, unlearn, and relearn'.
    - Alvin Toffler

    'The analysis of data will not by itself produce new ideas'
    - Edward de Bono

    'It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the ones most responsive to change'
    - Charles Darwin

    'The world is moving so fast these days that the man who says it can't be done is generally interrupted by someone doing it'
    - Harry Emerson Fosdick

    'I am always doing that which I can not do, in order that I may learn how to do it."
    - Pablo Picasso

    'Slowness to change usually means fear of the new.'
    - Philip Crosby

    Thinking is more interesting than knowing, but less interesting than looking. "
    - Goethe

    The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing"
    - Socrates

    You are not thinking. You are merely being logical."- Neils Bohr

    We shall not cease from exploration, and the end of all our exploring will be to arrive where we started and know the place for the first time."
    - T.S. Eliot

    "The future is simply infinite possibility waiting to happen. What it waits on is human imagination to crystallise its possibility"
    - Leland Kaiser

    "A dreamer is one who can only find his way by moonlight and his punishment is that he sees the dawn before the rest of the world"
    - Oscar Wilde

    Few people have the imagination for reality"
    - Goethe

    Many of the things you can count, don't count. Many of the things you can't count, really count"
    - Albert Einstein

    You cannot teach a man anything; you can only help him find it within himself."
    - Galileo Galilei
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • gue_bariumgue_barium Posts: 5,515
    All this ...this...interaction...

    I'm going to go masturbate.

    all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
    except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
  • AhnimusAhnimus Posts: 10,560
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • angelicaangelica Posts: 6,038
    gue_barium wrote:
    I love you, Angelica.
    I love you, too, gue....albeit sometimes begrudgingly ;)....but beneath the nonsense, it's love no less. :)
    "The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr

    http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta

    Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
  • AhnimusAhnimus Posts: 10,560
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • angelicaangelica Posts: 6,038
    :)

    "Every creative act involves...a new innocence of perception, liberated from the cataract of accepted belief."
    - Arthur Koestler

    "In times of change, learners inherit the earth, while the learned find themselves beautifully equipped to deal with a world that no longer exists"
    - Hoffa


    'Stop thinking in terms of limitations and start thinking in terms of possibilities'
    - Terry Josephson

    'The people who are crazy enough to think they can change the world are the ones who do'
    - Steve Jobs

    'The illiterate of the 21st century will not be those who cannot read and write, but those who cannot learn, unlearn, and relearn'.
    - Alvin Toffler

    'The analysis of data will not by itself produce new ideas'
    - Edward de Bono

    'It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the ones most responsive to change'
    - Charles Darwin

    'The world is moving so fast these days that the man who says it can't be done is generally interrupted by someone doing it'
    - Harry Emerson Fosdick

    'I am always doing that which I can not do, in order that I may learn how to do it."
    - Pablo Picasso

    'Slowness to change usually means fear of the new.'
    - Philip Crosby

    Thinking is more interesting than knowing, but less interesting than looking. "
    - Goethe

    The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing"
    - Socrates

    You are not thinking. You are merely being logical."- Neils Bohr

    We shall not cease from exploration, and the end of all our exploring will be to arrive where we started and know the place for the first time."
    - T.S. Eliot

    "The future is simply infinite possibility waiting to happen. What it waits on is human imagination to crystallise its possibility"
    - Leland Kaiser

    "A dreamer is one who can only find his way by moonlight and his punishment is that he sees the dawn before the rest of the world"
    - Oscar Wilde

    Few people have the imagination for reality"
    - Goethe

    Many of the things you can count, don't count. Many of the things you can't count, really count"
    - Albert Einstein

    You cannot teach a man anything; you can only help him find it within himself."
    - Galileo Galilei
    :)
    "The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr

    http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta

    Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
  • angelicaangelica Posts: 6,038
    Ahnimus wrote:
    I don't believe in free-will so I am not in conflict.
    Ahnimus wrote:
    I'm still waiting for someone to reconcile free-will with this conflict...

    It seems like you're at least in conflict as to whether or not you have a conflict. :D
    "The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr

    http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta

    Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
  • angelicaangelica Posts: 6,038
    Abook, this one is funny! :D

    'The world is moving so fast these days that the man who says it can't be done is generally interrupted by someone doing it'
    - Harry Emerson Fosdick
    "The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr

    http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta

    Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
  • angelicaangelica Posts: 6,038
    Or this one...wow.

    "Many of the things you can count, don't count. Many of the things you can't count, really count"
    - Albert Einstein
    "The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr

    http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta

    Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
  • angelica wrote:
    Abook, this one is funny! :D

    'The world is moving so fast these days that the man who says it can't be done is generally interrupted by someone doing it'
    - Harry Emerson Fosdick

    Haha... I loved that one too!
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • angelicaangelica Posts: 6,038
    Ahnimus wrote:
    Actually, I just listened to an interview with the film maker, as well as Fred Wolf, Michael Shermer and some callers. The film maker admits...

    Who are you referring to as "the film maker"? The guy introduced at the starting--Mark Vicente?
    "The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr

    http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta

    Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
  • AhnimusAhnimus Posts: 10,560
    Ok, stop with the quotes and actually address some of the issues.

    My conflict is with my view of reality (determinism) and prevailing view (indeterminism).

    Determinism is logically sound.

    Indeterminism is not for the reasons stated multiple times.

    I gave multiple reasons why the film "What the BLEEP do we know?" is factually inaccurate and why the Quantum Mind theory is realistically incorrect.

    Now, Abook, I see a major conflict with you and Angelica's views. For example, you post indeterministic theories such as Dr. Masaru Emoto's Miracle Water, then you post deterministic theories such as Dr. Milgram and Dr. Zimbardo's human behavior experiments. Angelica does the same thing repeatedly, most people do. This is the conflict of dualism, anything that can be described logically and represented mathmatically, predicted, controlled and falsifiable is deterministic. Then there happens to be things which are not strictly scrutinized and it becomes a matter of personal faith, that is the indeterminism. Every claim of indeterminism in history has been demonstratably deterministic when it's understood.

    So we have this conflict of what is known and what you want to be. You find things which I would be highly skeptical about and you invest your personal faith in it and declare it truth. Then when it's challenged as being actual truth, you become nihilists, claiming that no actual truth can be known that is not just personal truth.

    Both of you must either believe in all Gods or pick and choose which matters of faith you believe in. All for personal comfort. So, in terms of rational skepticism, your points are invalid. In terms of political/social policy your bases are as bias as a Catholic Priest.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
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