I can't say it enough. Those who think faith is responsible for all the worlds atrocities really need to wake the fuck up, open their eyes and see things from a not prejudiced view. I could care less if you believe in God, but stop blaming everything that is wrong in the world on those of us who do. Its weak and fucking pathetic. Holy shit, you people kill me. You're right. Atheists do no wrong and Christians and other people of faith do all the killing. I wonder how often Pol fucking Pot went to church or prayed. Sheesh. I wish people would shut the hell up with this stupid shit.
I can't believe nobody replied to this yet. You are pretty jaded if you think that athiests cause as much shit as Christians (or the faithful) do. All you have to do is look at all of the killing that has taken place in the name of Christ vs the number of killings performed by "crazy" athiests. Here is a little insight for you: To this day, you are hard pressed to find more devoted Christians than German Baptists. If you can name anybody (group or person) with an athiest point of view who were responsible for as many murders as the Germans were in WW2, I'll concede the greatness of Christianity. Just to let you know, the Germans carried out their WW2 plans in the name of the God. They even had God With Us embroidered on their uniforms. I'm sure that God was swelling with pride over that little commercial for Christianity. Ah well. Believe what your parents told you to. I'm sure that they are right.
Note the part where cornnifer said : "see things from a not prejudiced view"
If anyone is imagining one group to be "worse" and their own group "better", when in actuality we're all humans and we all do stupid things and we all do cool things, I'm hearing prujudice and personal bias. Human stupidity and arrogance has caused problems through time, not true faith.
Faith itself is the opposite of the cause of our problems through time. It has been humankind itself, with it's flawed propensity to bypass the true faith in our highest ideals. We've excused ourselves from acting on true faith and we've given ourselves license to insert human arrogance, ignorance and fallacy into so-called problem solving. THIS has caused our problems. Faith has been a convenient scapegoat.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
We've excused ourselves from acting on true faith and we've given ourselves license to insert human arrogance, ignorance and fallacy into so-called problem solving.
"Human arrogance, ignorance and fallacy" are the underlying causes of faith. In the absence of those things, faith is no longer possible.
"Human arrogance, ignorance and fallacy" are the underlying causes of faith. In the absence of those things, faith is no longer possible.
Truly acting on faith is acting on our highest ideals. When we are not aligned completely with our highest ideals, we are no longer acting from faith. Therefore anything unaligned with the highest ideals is not faith. It is lack of faith.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
Truly acting on faith is acting on our highest ideals.
Acting on our highest ideals is only faith when those ideals have no basis in Truth. The man who builds a bridge without understanding the ground beneath him or the rules that govern his structure is a man acting on faith. His bridge will likely collapse.
Acting on our highest ideals is only faith when those ideals have no basis in Truth.
It's interesting that you seem think faith and truth are dichotomous.
When you have faith in the law of reciprocity, it is not because it is not a true law, it is rather because you've come to recognise it IS a true law. Ditto for karma. You have faith in that law, and even live based on such a law, because you KNOW it to be true. The "not real" part is that it's a metaphysical law, and therefore not scientically quantifiable, which is very different from being unreal.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
It's interesting that you seem think faith and truth are dichotomous.
I don't, unless of course that which someone has faith in is untrue. When someone has faith in something true, the faith part is superfluous.
When you have faith in the law of reciprocity, it is not because it is not a true law, it is rather because you've come to recognise it IS a true law.
I don't have any more faith in the law of reciprocity than I have faith in the law of gravity. I simply know they are true. Having "faith" in them is as pointless as having faith in your own existence.
I don't have any more faith in the law of reciprocity than I have faith in the law of gravity. I simply know they are true. Having "faith" in them is as pointless as having faith in your own existence.
You terminology may be different, and yet apparently you can understand what the faithful are talking about. At least when they are being truly faithful.
The confusion enters in because people begin to see the acts of someone like George Bush as representing what religious faith is, when instead many of his actions are examples of pretend faith or of choosing unaligned with the ideals. War and killing are evidence of lack of faith.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
You terminology may be different, and yet apparently you can understand what the faithful are talking about. At least when they are being truly faithful.
The confusion enters in because people begin to see the acts of someone like George Bush as representing what religious faith is, when instead many of his actions are examples of pretend faith or of choosing unaligned with the ideals. War and killing are evidence of lack of faith.
I can understand what the faithful are talking about. All of them. In the context of God, they're talking about something that, by definition, they cannot define. And their actions are quite consistent with that faith. George Bush is an excellent example of the faithful, as are the many here who profess their faith in the divinity of God or lackthereof.
War and killing are evidence of a complete and total love of faith. Faith in the fallacy that death can create life. Faith in the fallacy that chaos can create security. Faith in the hypocrisy of loving life and destroying it at the same time.
I'd like to remind you of the role religious people play in our society ranging from soup kitchens, food banks, charitable drives etc... The christian organizations exceed atheist groups, so before you start bashing, maybe we should be thinaking them until someone else is going to step up to the plate.
should we be thanking religious people for the wars, the bombings and the hatred in the world? I don't think some soup kitchens justify that.
"I remember one night at Muzdalifa with nothing but the sky overhead, I lay awake amid sleeping Muslim brothers and I learned that pilgrims from every land — every colour, and class, and rank; high officials and the beggar alike — all snored in the same language"
When someone has faith in something true, the faith part is superfluous.
According to dictionary.com:
Faith:
1. Confident belief in the truth, value, or trustworthiness of a person, idea, or thing.
2. Belief that does not rest on ... material evidence.
3. Loyalty to a person or thing; allegiance
4. often Faith Christianity. The theological virtue defined as secure belief in God and a trusting acceptance of God's will.
6. A set of principles or beliefs.
Faith does not look superfluous at all to me in the light of Knowing and truth, but rather that it supports the truths.
In regards to number 4, I'd like to point out that those who have faith in God know God to be real, like gravity, reciprocity or karma.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
1. Confident belief in the truth, value, or trustworthiness of a person, idea, or thing.
2. Belief that does not rest on ... material evidence.
3. Loyalty to a person or thing; allegiance
4. often Faith Christianity. The theological virtue defined as secure belief in God and a trusting acceptance of God's will.
6. A set of principles or beliefs.
Faith does not look superfluous at all to me in the light of Knowing and truth, but rather that it supports the truths.
In regards to number 4, I'd like to point out that those who have faith in God know God to be real, like gravity, reciprocity or karma.
You forgot the rest of #2. And #5. And the fact that #1 is synonymous with the more apropos word knowledge.
Faith stems from the Latin "Fid", meaning to trust. To trust and to know are not the same.
I can understand what the faithful are talking about. All of them. In the context of God, they're talking about something that, by definition, they cannot define. And their actions are quite consistent with that faith.
I agree that one cannot define what is beyond one's capacity to appreciate or define. The mystics/philosophers through the ages have defined the essential metaphysical truths that stem from what we cannot define and they are quite simple. That people do not follow the simple truths is about our lower brain functions that we have not learned to integrate with the higher ones. when we ignore our powerful lower functions and pretend they do not exist, they exist outside our awareness or control, much to our dismay.
George Bush is an excellent example of the faithful, as are the many here who profess their faith in the divinity of God or lackthereof.
War and killing are evidence of a complete and total love of faith. Faith in the fallacy that death can create life. Faith in the fallacy that chaos can create security. Faith in the hypocrisy of loving life and destroying it at the same time.
Faith in a fallacy is not an authentic faith to me. To me, by not being aligned to an ideal diminishes it's power and therefore one practicing such actions is no longer truly faithful. Although to the person who has this type of "faith", I'm sure it seems quite valid.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
If you don't understand ellipses, they actually refer to not forgetting parts. Rather, they clearly sybolise deliberately leaving them out. When I typed "..." I was communicating that I left out that which was not part of my point. It is my liberty to do so. That the word "or" separated the part I included and the part I left out, it indicated that they two did not hinge on one another for accuracy. The point that faith is a belief that does not rest on material evidence supported the point I made a few posts back. Lack of material evidence does not equal untruth.
And the fact that #1 is synonymous with the more apropos word knowledge.
Of course it is "more apropos" to you, however that's subjective judgment. According the the dictionary, it is a valid meaning for "faith"--they don't put these meanings on scales with their objective treatment of them. I note that you, along with dictionary.com, are supporting my point, though. Inner knowing/faith to me are as real as the "real". The inner Knowing is still knowing.
Faith stems from the Latin "Fid", meaning to trust. To trust and to know are not the same.
I trust that which I know. In this sense, supporting what one knows is firmly applicable, and not synonymous with being imaginary.
Being aligned to a falsehood means one is supporting what is not true. Therefore to me, that is not faith, but rather a false belief.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
I see a problem with blaming a belief system over people who are assholes.
those assholes are using their supposed faith as an excuse to cause destruction. If you erase the excuse then you erase the reason. just my two cents
"I remember one night at Muzdalifa with nothing but the sky overhead, I lay awake amid sleeping Muslim brothers and I learned that pilgrims from every land — every colour, and class, and rank; high officials and the beggar alike — all snored in the same language"
How about if we just make all people extinct? That would fix the problem too.
how would killing everyone solve the problem of people being killed? you are being facetious. My point is, and one which even many religious people who I know agree with, is that almost all major conflicts in history have been directly caused by differences of faith, with the obvious exception of the world wars and cold war related conflicts. As far as I can see, humanity's widespread acceptance of religion in its many forms has achieved very little that is positive. Frankly I'm perfectly happy being an atheist so, to me, it seems that a whole lot is being sacrificed for little or no gain.
Obviously I am well aware that the vast majority of practising christians, muslims, jews etc are all normal people who merely feel that faith in a god is an integral part of their life. However, for centuries religion has been the cause of mankind killing itself with no rewards. It seems that this will never end. Besides, if it wasn't for religion these minority lunatics would have no grievance so clearly religion is to blame.
"I remember one night at Muzdalifa with nothing but the sky overhead, I lay awake amid sleeping Muslim brothers and I learned that pilgrims from every land — every colour, and class, and rank; high officials and the beggar alike — all snored in the same language"
how would killing everyone solve the problem of people being killed? you are being facetious. My point is, and one which even many religious people who I know agree with, is that almost all major conflicts in history have been directly caused by differences of faith, with the obvious exception of the world wars and cold war related conflicts. As far as I can see, humanity's widespread acceptance of religion in its many forms has achieved very little that is positive. Frankly I'm perfectly happy being an atheist so, to me, it seems that a whole lot is being sacrificed for little or no gain.
Obviously I am well aware that the vast majority of practising christians, muslims, jews etc are all normal people who merely feel that faith in a god is an integral part of their life. However, for centuries religion has been the cause of mankind killing itself with no rewards. It seems that this will never end. Besides, if it wasn't for religion these minority lunatics would have no grievance so clearly religion is to blame.
I still believe that the people who are willing to kill for these beliefs are to blame. That argument is along the same lines as those who would eliminate all muslims because some are terrorists.
I'm happy with my faith much like you are happy being an atheist. I am not going to go kill over it. You would take that away from me though so that you can eliminate the minority of nutjobs. That is where I came up with the idea of making people extinct just so that wars would end. You are willing to take away from the many just to get at the few. That is never the best solution.
should we be thanking religious people for the wars, the bombings and the hatred in the world?
No. You should just stop fighting in them and paying for them.
Very good.
I would add, stop supporting them, too. When we support something we don't want to continue, we contribute to it continuing. At the least, when we do so, we need to acknowledge and accept ownership of our role in war and fighting.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
i think as a christian you should witness to people. but i am not going to judge people because of their beliefs. I am not goin to walk around with a crucifix and try to change the what you belive.
If a person wants to know, they will most likely ask. and if they ask. i will answer. but i am not going to try to make anyone believe what i do.
I think people should be aware of other religons.. who are we to judge?
A piece of my heart goes out with every single one of them. A PIECE OF MY HEART!!!
_____________________________________________
You think you know. . . . . But u have NO idea
I still believe that the people who are willing to kill for these beliefs are to blame. That argument is along the same lines as those who would eliminate all muslims because some are terrorists.
I'm happy with my faith much like you are happy being an atheist. I am not going to go kill over it. You would take that away from me though so that you can eliminate the minority of nutjobs. That is where I came up with the idea of making people extinct just so that wars would end. You are willing to take away from the many just to get at the few. That is never the best solution.
well of course I don't truly believe that religion can just be erased. for starters the nutjobs would kill more people if their faith was taken from them, and I don't for a second think you youself should suffer because of the few idiots. you are perfectly entitled to your beliefs. However I do wish that religion as a concept had never existed. As far as I'm concerned humanity is a lost cause that will eventually drive itself into oblivion. I just hope it doesn't happen when I or my children are around. I don't think there is a cure.
Then again, for all I know, there is a god and all this conflict in the world is just another flood sent to wash away our sins. I don't think this is the case but I guess I'll know one day. I just know that if this is what religion brings the its not something I want to be a part of. I do of course respect your opinion, even if it sometimes seems that I don't. That is just my way
"I remember one night at Muzdalifa with nothing but the sky overhead, I lay awake amid sleeping Muslim brothers and I learned that pilgrims from every land — every colour, and class, and rank; high officials and the beggar alike — all snored in the same language"
^^^ that's why i consider myself lucky. and that is why we ARE spreading our faith. but not by physical means, but by preaching.
....soo...your "Lucky" (suprised the word "Blessed" wasn't used) but how about the 80% (again pulled this number out of the sky) of the worlds population that won't convert even if they are approached, did god just create them to burn in hell...cause they didn't accept Jesus? Why would he do that....trying to understand. Now if you don't beleive that someone has to accept Jesus to go to heaven then I'm cool...but if so then...?
I still believe that the people who are willing to kill for these beliefs are to blame. That argument is along the same lines as those who would eliminate all muslims because some are terrorists.
I'm happy with my faith much like you are happy being an atheist. I am not going to go kill over it. You would take that away from me though so that you can eliminate the minority of nutjobs. That is where I came up with the idea of making people extinct just so that wars would end. You are willing to take away from the many just to get at the few. That is never the best solution.
If you did, you did indeed choose to kill for your religion.
if you voted for jr you supported killing in the name of religion...now if your Muslim....I don't get why you voted for Jr.....unless your seriously wealthy and put your wealth over your religion.
Comments
That shaking advert pisses me off
The shaking advert on the right
Note the part where cornnifer said : "see things from a not prejudiced view"
If anyone is imagining one group to be "worse" and their own group "better", when in actuality we're all humans and we all do stupid things and we all do cool things, I'm hearing prujudice and personal bias. Human stupidity and arrogance has caused problems through time, not true faith.
Faith itself is the opposite of the cause of our problems through time. It has been humankind itself, with it's flawed propensity to bypass the true faith in our highest ideals. We've excused ourselves from acting on true faith and we've given ourselves license to insert human arrogance, ignorance and fallacy into so-called problem solving. THIS has caused our problems. Faith has been a convenient scapegoat.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
"Human arrogance, ignorance and fallacy" are the underlying causes of faith. In the absence of those things, faith is no longer possible.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
Acting on our highest ideals is only faith when those ideals have no basis in Truth. The man who builds a bridge without understanding the ground beneath him or the rules that govern his structure is a man acting on faith. His bridge will likely collapse.
And why would you go to a meeting for nothing. Telling me you don't go to athiest meetings is like me telling you I don't go to AA meetings..
When you have faith in the law of reciprocity, it is not because it is not a true law, it is rather because you've come to recognise it IS a true law. Ditto for karma. You have faith in that law, and even live based on such a law, because you KNOW it to be true. The "not real" part is that it's a metaphysical law, and therefore not scientically quantifiable, which is very different from being unreal.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
I don't, unless of course that which someone has faith in is untrue. When someone has faith in something true, the faith part is superfluous.
I don't have any more faith in the law of reciprocity than I have faith in the law of gravity. I simply know they are true. Having "faith" in them is as pointless as having faith in your own existence.
You terminology may be different, and yet apparently you can understand what the faithful are talking about. At least when they are being truly faithful.
The confusion enters in because people begin to see the acts of someone like George Bush as representing what religious faith is, when instead many of his actions are examples of pretend faith or of choosing unaligned with the ideals. War and killing are evidence of lack of faith.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
I can understand what the faithful are talking about. All of them. In the context of God, they're talking about something that, by definition, they cannot define. And their actions are quite consistent with that faith. George Bush is an excellent example of the faithful, as are the many here who profess their faith in the divinity of God or lackthereof.
War and killing are evidence of a complete and total love of faith. Faith in the fallacy that death can create life. Faith in the fallacy that chaos can create security. Faith in the hypocrisy of loving life and destroying it at the same time.
Faith:
1. Confident belief in the truth, value, or trustworthiness of a person, idea, or thing.
2. Belief that does not rest on ... material evidence.
3. Loyalty to a person or thing; allegiance
4. often Faith Christianity. The theological virtue defined as secure belief in God and a trusting acceptance of God's will.
6. A set of principles or beliefs.
Faith does not look superfluous at all to me in the light of Knowing and truth, but rather that it supports the truths.
In regards to number 4, I'd like to point out that those who have faith in God know God to be real, like gravity, reciprocity or karma.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
No. You should just stop fighting in them and paying for them.
I see a problem with blaming a belief system over people who are assholes.
You forgot the rest of #2. And #5. And the fact that #1 is synonymous with the more apropos word knowledge.
Faith stems from the Latin "Fid", meaning to trust. To trust and to know are not the same.
Faith in a fallacy is not an authentic faith to me. To me, by not being aligned to an ideal diminishes it's power and therefore one practicing such actions is no longer truly faithful. Although to the person who has this type of "faith", I'm sure it seems quite valid.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
Of course it is "more apropos" to you, however that's subjective judgment. According the the dictionary, it is a valid meaning for "faith"--they don't put these meanings on scales with their objective treatment of them. I note that you, along with dictionary.com, are supporting my point, though. Inner knowing/faith to me are as real as the "real". The inner Knowing is still knowing.
I trust that which I know. In this sense, supporting what one knows is firmly applicable, and not synonymous with being imaginary.
Being aligned to a falsehood means one is supporting what is not true. Therefore to me, that is not faith, but rather a false belief.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
How about if we just make all people extinct? That would fix the problem too.
Obviously I am well aware that the vast majority of practising christians, muslims, jews etc are all normal people who merely feel that faith in a god is an integral part of their life. However, for centuries religion has been the cause of mankind killing itself with no rewards. It seems that this will never end. Besides, if it wasn't for religion these minority lunatics would have no grievance so clearly religion is to blame.
I still believe that the people who are willing to kill for these beliefs are to blame. That argument is along the same lines as those who would eliminate all muslims because some are terrorists.
I'm happy with my faith much like you are happy being an atheist. I am not going to go kill over it. You would take that away from me though so that you can eliminate the minority of nutjobs. That is where I came up with the idea of making people extinct just so that wars would end. You are willing to take away from the many just to get at the few. That is never the best solution.
I would add, stop supporting them, too. When we support something we don't want to continue, we contribute to it continuing. At the least, when we do so, we need to acknowledge and accept ownership of our role in war and fighting.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
i think as a christian you should witness to people. but i am not going to judge people because of their beliefs. I am not goin to walk around with a crucifix and try to change the what you belive.
If a person wants to know, they will most likely ask. and if they ask. i will answer. but i am not going to try to make anyone believe what i do.
I think people should be aware of other religons.. who are we to judge?
_____________________________________________
You think you know. . . . . But u have NO idea
Then again, for all I know, there is a god and all this conflict in the world is just another flood sent to wash away our sins. I don't think this is the case but I guess I'll know one day. I just know that if this is what religion brings the its not something I want to be a part of. I do of course respect your opinion, even if it sometimes seems that I don't. That is just my way
....soo...your "Lucky" (suprised the word "Blessed" wasn't used) but how about the 80% (again pulled this number out of the sky) of the worlds population that won't convert even if they are approached, did god just create them to burn in hell...cause they didn't accept Jesus? Why would he do that....trying to understand. Now if you don't beleive that someone has to accept Jesus to go to heaven then I'm cool...but if so then...?
If you did, you did indeed choose to kill for your religion.
What religion do I follow?