I pity Religous People

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  • floyd1975
    floyd1975 Posts: 1,350
    Jeremy1012 wrote:
    those assholes are using their supposed faith as an excuse to cause destruction. If you erase the excuse then you erase the reason. just my two cents

    How about if we just make all people extinct? That would fix the problem too.
  • Jeremy1012
    Jeremy1012 Posts: 7,170
    zstillings wrote:
    How about if we just make all people extinct? That would fix the problem too.
    how would killing everyone solve the problem of people being killed? you are being facetious. My point is, and one which even many religious people who I know agree with, is that almost all major conflicts in history have been directly caused by differences of faith, with the obvious exception of the world wars and cold war related conflicts. As far as I can see, humanity's widespread acceptance of religion in its many forms has achieved very little that is positive. Frankly I'm perfectly happy being an atheist so, to me, it seems that a whole lot is being sacrificed for little or no gain.

    Obviously I am well aware that the vast majority of practising christians, muslims, jews etc are all normal people who merely feel that faith in a god is an integral part of their life. However, for centuries religion has been the cause of mankind killing itself with no rewards. It seems that this will never end. Besides, if it wasn't for religion these minority lunatics would have no grievance so clearly religion is to blame.
    "I remember one night at Muzdalifa with nothing but the sky overhead, I lay awake amid sleeping Muslim brothers and I learned that pilgrims from every land — every colour, and class, and rank; high officials and the beggar alike — all snored in the same language"
  • floyd1975
    floyd1975 Posts: 1,350
    Jeremy1012 wrote:
    how would killing everyone solve the problem of people being killed? you are being facetious. My point is, and one which even many religious people who I know agree with, is that almost all major conflicts in history have been directly caused by differences of faith, with the obvious exception of the world wars and cold war related conflicts. As far as I can see, humanity's widespread acceptance of religion in its many forms has achieved very little that is positive. Frankly I'm perfectly happy being an atheist so, to me, it seems that a whole lot is being sacrificed for little or no gain.

    Obviously I am well aware that the vast majority of practising christians, muslims, jews etc are all normal people who merely feel that faith in a god is an integral part of their life. However, for centuries religion has been the cause of mankind killing itself with no rewards. It seems that this will never end. Besides, if it wasn't for religion these minority lunatics would have no grievance so clearly religion is to blame.

    I still believe that the people who are willing to kill for these beliefs are to blame. That argument is along the same lines as those who would eliminate all muslims because some are terrorists.

    I'm happy with my faith much like you are happy being an atheist. I am not going to go kill over it. You would take that away from me though so that you can eliminate the minority of nutjobs. That is where I came up with the idea of making people extinct just so that wars would end. You are willing to take away from the many just to get at the few. That is never the best solution.
  • angelica
    angelica Posts: 6,038
    farfromglorified wrote:
    Jeremy1012 wrote:
    should we be thanking religious people for the wars, the bombings and the hatred in the world?
    No. You should just stop fighting in them and paying for them.
    Very good.

    I would add, stop supporting them, too. When we support something we don't want to continue, we contribute to it continuing. At the least, when we do so, we need to acknowledge and accept ownership of our role in war and fighting.
    "The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr

    http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta

    Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
  • jrms09
    jrms09 Posts: 16
    i am a christian

    i think as a christian you should witness to people. but i am not going to judge people because of their beliefs. I am not goin to walk around with a crucifix and try to change the what you belive.

    If a person wants to know, they will most likely ask. and if they ask. i will answer. but i am not going to try to make anyone believe what i do.

    I think people should be aware of other religons.. who are we to judge?
    A piece of my heart goes out with every single one of them. A PIECE OF MY HEART!!!
    _____________________________________________
    You think you know. . . . . But u have NO idea
  • Jeremy1012
    Jeremy1012 Posts: 7,170
    zstillings wrote:
    I still believe that the people who are willing to kill for these beliefs are to blame. That argument is along the same lines as those who would eliminate all muslims because some are terrorists.

    I'm happy with my faith much like you are happy being an atheist. I am not going to go kill over it. You would take that away from me though so that you can eliminate the minority of nutjobs. That is where I came up with the idea of making people extinct just so that wars would end. You are willing to take away from the many just to get at the few. That is never the best solution.
    well of course I don't truly believe that religion can just be erased. for starters the nutjobs would kill more people if their faith was taken from them, and I don't for a second think you youself should suffer because of the few idiots. you are perfectly entitled to your beliefs. However I do wish that religion as a concept had never existed. As far as I'm concerned humanity is a lost cause that will eventually drive itself into oblivion. I just hope it doesn't happen when I or my children are around. I don't think there is a cure.

    Then again, for all I know, there is a god and all this conflict in the world is just another flood sent to wash away our sins. I don't think this is the case but I guess I'll know one day. I just know that if this is what religion brings the its not something I want to be a part of. I do of course respect your opinion, even if it sometimes seems that I don't. That is just my way :)
    "I remember one night at Muzdalifa with nothing but the sky overhead, I lay awake amid sleeping Muslim brothers and I learned that pilgrims from every land — every colour, and class, and rank; high officials and the beggar alike — all snored in the same language"
  • callen
    callen Posts: 6,388
    yotan18 wrote:
    ^^^ that's why i consider myself lucky. and that is why we ARE spreading our faith. but not by physical means, but by preaching. :)

    ....soo...your "Lucky" (suprised the word "Blessed" wasn't used) but how about the 80% (again pulled this number out of the sky) of the worlds population that won't convert even if they are approached, did god just create them to burn in hell...cause they didn't accept Jesus? Why would he do that....trying to understand. Now if you don't beleive that someone has to accept Jesus to go to heaven then I'm cool...but if so then...?
    10-18-2000 Houston, 04-06-2003 Houston, 6-25-2003 Toronto, 10-8-2004 Kissimmee, 9-4-2005 Calgary, 12-3-05 Sao Paulo, 7-2-2006 Denver, 7-22-06 Gorge, 7-23-2006 Gorge, 9-13-2006 Bern, 6-22-2008 DC, 6-24-2008 MSG, 6-25-2008 MSG
  • callen
    callen Posts: 6,388
    zstillings wrote:
    I still believe that the people who are willing to kill for these beliefs are to blame. That argument is along the same lines as those who would eliminate all muslims because some are terrorists.

    I'm happy with my faith much like you are happy being an atheist. I am not going to go kill over it. You would take that away from me though so that you can eliminate the minority of nutjobs. That is where I came up with the idea of making people extinct just so that wars would end. You are willing to take away from the many just to get at the few. That is never the best solution.

    If you did, you did indeed choose to kill for your religion.
    10-18-2000 Houston, 04-06-2003 Houston, 6-25-2003 Toronto, 10-8-2004 Kissimmee, 9-4-2005 Calgary, 12-3-05 Sao Paulo, 7-2-2006 Denver, 7-22-06 Gorge, 7-23-2006 Gorge, 9-13-2006 Bern, 6-22-2008 DC, 6-24-2008 MSG, 6-25-2008 MSG
  • floyd1975
    floyd1975 Posts: 1,350
    callen wrote:
    If you did, you did indeed choose to kill for your religion.

    What religion do I follow?
  • callen
    callen Posts: 6,388
    zstillings wrote:
    What religion do I follow?
    if you voted for jr you supported killing in the name of religion...now if your Muslim....I don't get why you voted for Jr.....unless your seriously wealthy and put your wealth over your religion.
    10-18-2000 Houston, 04-06-2003 Houston, 6-25-2003 Toronto, 10-8-2004 Kissimmee, 9-4-2005 Calgary, 12-3-05 Sao Paulo, 7-2-2006 Denver, 7-22-06 Gorge, 7-23-2006 Gorge, 9-13-2006 Bern, 6-22-2008 DC, 6-24-2008 MSG, 6-25-2008 MSG
  • floyd1975
    floyd1975 Posts: 1,350
    callen wrote:
    if you voted for jr you supported killing in the name of religion...now if your Muslim....I don't get why you voted for Jr.....unless your seriously wealthy and put your wealth over your religion.

    Yes it does matter. You seem to think it's so easy to boil down all of my beliefs into a campaign slogan. You claim to know so much about me, so I ask again, what religion do I follow?
  • angelica
    angelica Posts: 6,038
    callen wrote:
    if you voted for jr you supported killing in the name of religion...now if your Muslim....I don't get why you voted for Jr.....unless your seriously wealthy and put your wealth over your religion.
    It does matter when you are ascribing accountability to others that is about your opinion or your imagination rather than the truth.

    When people support killing in the name of religion, they are accountable for supporting killing in the name of religion.
    "The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr

    http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta

    Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
  • Songburst
    Songburst Posts: 1,195
    angelica wrote:
    Note the part where cornnifer said : "see things from a not prejudiced view"

    If anyone is imagining one group to be "worse" and their own group "better", when in actuality we're all humans and we all do stupid things and we all do cool things, I'm hearing prujudice and personal bias. Human stupidity and arrogance has caused problems through time, not true faith.

    Faith itself is the opposite of the cause of our problems through time. It has been humankind itself, with it's flawed propensity to bypass the true faith in our highest ideals. We've excused ourselves from acting on true faith and we've given ourselves license to insert human arrogance, ignorance and fallacy into so-called problem solving. THIS has caused our problems. Faith has been a convenient scapegoat.

    There is a huge difference between faith and Christianity. Having faith in yourself and the people around you is a good thing. Having to follow dogmatic practises that tell you what to have faith in is a huge problem in the world. The problem with religion is that it generally isn't elastic. It has trouble changing with the times. In the long run, religion changes with society. In the short run, it doesn't and this is where all of the conflict comes from. Antiquated "rules" that were written thousands of years ago still spark hate and ignorance. I would even argue that the concept of an omniscient "god" is an antiquated notion in this day and age.
    1/12/1879, 4/8/1156, 2/6/1977, who gives a shit, ...
  • angelica
    angelica Posts: 6,038
    Songburst wrote:
    There is a huge difference between faith and Christianity. Having faith in yourself and the people around you is a good thing. Having to follow dogmatic practises that tell you what to have faith in is a huge problem in the world. The problem with religion is that it generally isn't elastic. It has trouble changing with the times. In the long run, religion changes with society. In the short run, it doesn't and this is where all of the conflict comes from. Antiquated "rules" that were written thousands of years ago still spark hate and ignorance. I would even argue that the concept of an omniscient "god" is an antiquated notion in this day and age.

    Either way, it's not the beautiful ideals of religion that causes problems. Treating others as you'd like to be treated is not causing war. Treating our parents with respect is not causing war. Being faithful to one's spouse is not causing a war. Loving all people is not causing a war. Trying to live up to the ideals of an enlightened being like Jesus is not causing a war. It's the unenlightened nature of or flaws in humans that are causing war, hatred and ongoing problems while abusing the name and spirit of religion in the process.
    "The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr

    http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta

    Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
  • callen
    callen Posts: 6,388
    zstillings wrote:
    Yes it does matter. You seem to think it's so easy to boil down all of my beliefs into a campaign slogan. You claim to know so much about me, so I ask again, what religion do I follow?

    you say your not an athiest....and from your answer it appears you voted for Jr......jr went for oil and to get the evil dangerous muslims.
    10-18-2000 Houston, 04-06-2003 Houston, 6-25-2003 Toronto, 10-8-2004 Kissimmee, 9-4-2005 Calgary, 12-3-05 Sao Paulo, 7-2-2006 Denver, 7-22-06 Gorge, 7-23-2006 Gorge, 9-13-2006 Bern, 6-22-2008 DC, 6-24-2008 MSG, 6-25-2008 MSG
  • floyd1975
    floyd1975 Posts: 1,350
    callen wrote:
    you say your not an athiest....and from your answer it appears you voted for Jr......jr went for oil and to get the evil dangerous muslims.

    If you don't care then you cannot pretend to boil down everything that I believe down into your own little campaign slogan. It seems that you have a habit of oversimplifying things when they are not really that simple.

    I will try the same thing. It seems from your answers that you voted for John Kerry. You must support "killing people for religion" as well even though you seem to subscribe to the religion of atheism. It's clear to me on this board that atheism is, in itself, a religion and has a tendency to show the same amount of close minded intolerance as its high and mighty subscribers like to accuse others of.

    Did I get it right? If I'm wrong I apologize. I wouldn't want to try to boil all of your belifs down into such simplicity. I doubt you would be willing to say the same though.
  • Songburst
    Songburst Posts: 1,195
    angelica wrote:
    Either way, it's not the beautiful ideals of religion that causes problems. Treating others as you'd like to be treated is not causing war. Treating our parents with respect is not causing war. Being faithful to one's spouse is not causing a war. Loving all people is not causing a war. Trying to live up to the ideals of an enlightened being like Jesus is not causing a war. It's the unenlightened nature of or flaws in humans that are causing war, hatred and ongoing problems while abusing the name and spirit of religion in the process.

    Everything that you mentioned are not religious ideals. They are human ideals. If you think that the above mentioned virtues weren't around before somebody created god and religion, then you truly are naive. I exhibit each of those virtues that you mentioned, yet I have never participated in an organized religion. It just irks me that some people need a reason to treat other people well. You shouldn't need a god or religion to tell you how to treat people.
    1/12/1879, 4/8/1156, 2/6/1977, who gives a shit, ...
  • NewJPage
    NewJPage Posts: 3,320
    cornnifer wrote:
    I can't say it enough. Those who think faith is responsible for all the worlds atrocities really need to wake the fuck up, open their eyes and see things from a not prejudiced view. I could care less if you believe in God, but stop blaming everything that is wrong in the world on those of us who do. Its weak and fucking pathetic. Holy shit, you people kill me. You're right. Atheists do no wrong and Christians and other people of faith do all the killing. I wonder how often Pol fucking Pot went to church or prayed. Sheesh. I wish people would shut the hell up with this stupid shit.

    yeah, i doubt pol pot was a big church goer...i just find it kinda weird that our church-loving government officially supported his regime until the mid-90's...
    6/26/98, 8/17/00, 10/8/00, 12/8/02, 12/9/02, 4/25/03, 5/28/03, 6/1/03, 6/3/03, 6/5/03, 6/6/03, 6/12/03, 6/13/03, 6/15/03, 6/18/03, 6/21/03, 6/22/03, 7/12/03, 7/14/03, 10/3/04, 10/5/04, 9/9/05, 9/11/05, 9/16/05, 5/16/06, 5/17/06, 5/19/06, 6/30/06, 7/23/06, 8/5/07, 6/30/08, 8/23/09, 8/24/09, 5/4/10, 5/7/10, 9/3/11, 9/4/11, 10/11/13, 10/17/14, 8/20/16
  • angelica
    angelica Posts: 6,038
    zstillings wrote:
    It's clear to me on this board that atheism is, in itself, a religion and has a tendency to show the same amount of close minded intolerance as its high and mighty subscribers like to accuse others of.
    I've definitely seen atheism-as-religion close minded intolerance rampant on this board, and in life, bigtime. High and mighty intolerance reveals itself as high and mighty intolerance, period, whatever the basis for it is.
    "The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr

    http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta

    Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
  • floyd1975
    floyd1975 Posts: 1,350
    Songburst wrote:
    Everything that you mentioned are not religious ideals. They are human ideals. If you think that the above mentioned virtues weren't around before somebody created god and religion, then you truly are naive. I exhibit each of those virtues that you mentioned, yet I have never participated in an organized religion. It just irks me that some people need a reason to treat other people well. You shouldn't need a god or religion to tell you how to treat people.

    Sometimes people do things that they are not supposed to do. If someone uses religion as a reason to treat people well, why does it really matter as long as they are treating people well? The reason people do things shouldn't irk you as much as the actions.

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