Saudi Textbooks still teaching hate

jeffbr · July 2008

NMyTree wrote:

I think it's unanimous.

Both the US/Christians and Saudis/Muslims are full of shit and have been guilty of the equally hateful, deceiving practices. Neither is innocent. Both have and do play the same hateful game.

This like arguing which one is more evil and vicious, the rapist murderer who raped and murdered three women, or the pedophile who raped and murdered three children.

hate is hate.

It's no less hateful or acceptable when perpetratedby Muslims or perpetrated by Christians.

Totally agree. No argument from me. I wasn't suggesting the US is innocent of anything. I just find it silly that the same few posters around here love to turn non-US themed threads into threads about the US. Maybe it is penis envy, or maybe it is their own deep-seated hate, but I thought I'd point it out for their benefit so that they could perhaps better deal with their issue.

dg1979us · July 2008

NMyTree wrote:

I think it's unanimous.

Both the US/Christians and Saudis/Muslims are full of shit and have been guilty of the equally hateful, deceiving practices. Neither is innocent. Both have and do play the same hateful game.

This like arguing which one is more evil and vicious, the rapist murderer who raped and murdered three women, or the pedophile who raped and murdered three children.

hate is hate.

It's no less hateful or acceptable when perpetratedby Muslims or perpetrated by Christians.

I disagree with that. Comparing Christianity in the US to Islam in Saudi Arabia isnt a close comparison at all. You arent forced to worship anything in this country, and you arent bound to ridiculous other worldy laws that you can literally be punished for on this planet. The US is guilty of greed, not religious extremism. I am by no means saying there havent been US Christians who have done terrible things, but it isnt endorsed by their religion, especially not in modern times. At the start of the country you can certainly make that argument, but in todays world it isnt close to the same.

RolandTD20Kdrummer · July 2008

*note to self*...disagreeing with a country's policies that has a corrupt government and has started illegal wars based on lies is really deep either seeded miserable hate or penis envy

ROTFLMAOBBQ!

jeffbr · July 2008

RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:

*note to self*...disagreeing with a country's policies that has a corrupt government and has started illegal wars based on lies is really deep either seeded miserable hate or penis envy

ROTFLMAOBBQ!

Don't get a hernia laughing so hard (while eating bbq?

). And your first sentence above explains a lot in terms of the disconnects you seem to have with many posters, and your inability to debate. Your conclusions did not follow from my post. I didn't say don't question. I didn't say US is innocent. I simply wondered why threads that had nothing whatsoever to do with the US invariably get steered toward being about the US by the same handful of posters. That you thought I was referring to you is telling, since I certainly didn't mention names.

fuck · July 2008

jeffbr wrote:

Don't get a hernia laughing so hard (while eating bbq? ). And your first sentence above explains a lot in terms of the disconnects you seem to have with many posters, and your inability to debate. Your conclusions did not follow from my post. I didn't say don't question. I didn't say US is innocent. I simply wondered why threads that had nothing whatsoever to do with the US invariably get steered toward being about the US by the same handful of posters. That you thought I was referring to you is telling, since I certainly didn't mention names.

Just because you didn't mention names doesn't mean anything. It's obvious who people like you usually target when you bring up points like that.

Secondly, bringing up the US is definitely relevant because:
1) someone mentioned that THIS causes more "terrorism," when in reality, US interference in the region plays a major role.
2) pointing out people's hypocrisy when referring to propaganda in the Middle East, as if it doesn't exist everywhere else, especially in the US.

canadajammer · July 2008

So _outlaw,

I posted an article about how Saudi Textbooks are filled with hate/lies/and a extremist and religious based curriculum.

If anything, I started this thread to vilify the Saudi government, not 'Arabs.'

But go ahead, accuse me of anything you want, I don't really care.

I think this type of education is the worst thing you can possibly expose to children.

Outlaw, do you agree with the ideas and claims being put into the Saudi textbook?

fuck · July 2008

dg1979us wrote:

I disagree with that. Comparing Christianity in the US to Islam in Saudi Arabia isnt a close comparison at all. You arent forced to worship anything in this country, and you arent bound to ridiculous other worldy laws that you can literally be punished for on this planet. The US is guilty of greed, not religious extremism. I am by no means saying there havent been US Christians who have done terrible things, but it isnt endorsed by their religion, especially not in modern times. At the start of the country you can certainly make that argument, but in todays world it isnt close to the same.

You aren't forced to worship anything in Saudi Arabia either. I have many Christian friends living there.
And just because their government is a religious government does not make it wrong. Referring to their laws as "other worldly laws" is just insulting to Muslims in general.

And saying that the "terrible things" done by Muslims is endorsed by religion is ALSO an insult to all Muslims because that is false. The "terrible things" that are shown on TV done by Muslims (although the ratio of things done by Muslims is show on TV at a much greater scale than Christians) is NOT endorsed by their religion. "Religious extremists" or whatever fucking technical term you want to use are the ones who "endorse" these "terrible things."

Obviously it's not the SAME as US, but it's certainly comparable.

canadajammer · July 2008

By the way, I never meant this thread to be about the USA and the conflict between the middle east and the West.

I found an article that I thought was disturbing so I posted it on this board to see how people felt about this kind of education.

I don't care what your politics are in terms of the 'war on terror,' this education is practically child abuse and brainwashing.

Maybe more effort should be put forth by the Saudi government (or whoever writes the curriculum) to teach Math, Science, Arts, etc.

NMyTree · July 2008

dg1979us wrote:

I disagree with that. Comparing Christianity in the US to Islam in Saudi Arabia isnt a close comparison at all. You arent forced to worship anything in this country, and you arent bound to ridiculous other worldy laws that you can literally be punished for on this planet. The US is guilty of greed, not religious extremism. I am by no means saying there havent been US Christians who have done terrible things, but it isnt endorsed by their religion, especially not in modern times. At the start of the country you can certainly make that argument, but in todays world it isnt close to the same.

I was keeping in context with what was posted in this thread and someone did mention the genocide of native americans.

And while I'm certainly aware there are some differences, variables and stipulations; both Christians and Muslims have a history seeped in violence, oppression, disrespect of other cultures/races/religions. A long hateful, vicious history at that.

As well as both being the victims of all that. The pendulum does swing in cycles.

LeilaMoonTurtle · July 2008

are USA textbooks still teaching that Columbus discovered america? that the natives in the americas were better off after colonization? That Edison is the be all of electricity?

Colorsblending9 wrote:

http://www.nationalpost.com/news/world/story.html?id=662057

Pretty shocking considering its 2008.

jeffbr · July 2008

_outlaw wrote:

Just because you didn't mention names doesn't mean anything. It's obvious who people like you usually target when you bring up points like that.

People like me? Like who? What?

_outlaw wrote:

Secondly, bringing up the US is definitely relevant because:
1) someone mentioned that THIS causes more "terrorism," when in reality, US interference in the region plays a major role.
2) pointing out people's hypocrisy when referring to propaganda in the Middle East, as if it doesn't exist everywhere else, especially in the US.

Is the OP a US citizen? I have no idea. I always figured the OP was Iraeli, but who knows?

Anyway, I suppose "people like you" have a condition called "knee-jerk" which can't be helped, so justify away.

fuck · July 2008

Colorsblending9 wrote:

I posted an article about how Saudi Textbooks are filled with hate/lies/and a extremist and religious based curriculum.

If anything, I started this thread to vilify the Saudi government, not 'Arabs.'

But go ahead, accuse me of anything you want, I don't really care.

And just yesterday you posted a topic to vilify the Lebanese citizens for welcoming back a prisoner that was held by Israel.

I think this type of education is the worst thing you can possibly expose to children.

Outlaw, do you agree with the ideas and claims being put into the Saudi textbook?

Of course not. Anyone who agrees with that is either ignorant or a racist.

Colorsblending, do you not think the US blatantly attempts to spread hate/fear in the name of a cause?

dg1979us · July 2008

_outlaw wrote:

You aren't forced to worship anything in Saudi Arabia either. I have many Christian friends living there.
And just because their government is a religious government does not make it wrong. Referring to their laws as "other worldly laws" is just insulting to Muslims in general.

And saying that the "terrible things" done by Muslims is endorsed by religion is ALSO an insult to all Muslims because that is false. The "terrible things" that are shown on TV done by Muslims (although the ratio of things done by Muslims is show on TV at a much greater scale than Christians) is NOT endorsed by their religion. "Religious extremists" or whatever fucking technical term you want to use are the ones who "endorse" these "terrible things."

Obviously it's not the SAME as US, but it's certainly comparable.

But the laws are based around Islam, where as here they arent. I remember reading an article Maureen Dowd wrote when she was over there and she was forced to cover up or face being jailed. So great, she might not be forced to worship Allah, but she still had to follow the Islamic rules that are a set part of society.

Any rules or beliefs based on a religion are other worldly. If you dont agree with that, then you dont understand religion. If that is insulting so be it, its the truth for any religion.

And there are plenty of major Islamic religious leaders that applaud and praise violence committed in the name of Allah. I never once said all Muslims were extremists, and have several good friends who are Muslims from Iran. So, dont put words in my mouth.

nobody · July 2008

Colorsblending9 wrote:

So _outlaw,

I posted an article about how Saudi Textbooks are filled with hate/lies/and a extremist and religious based curriculum.

If anything, I started this thread to vilify the Saudi government, not 'Arabs.'

But go ahead, accuse me of anything you want, I don't really care.

I think this type of education is the worst thing you can possibly expose to children.

Outlaw, do you agree with the ideas and claims being put into the Saudi textbook?

it's just this thing that people keep misinterpreting other people's posts so they can oppose against points no one has made(except themselves) and show how righteous and wise they are.
admission: off topic as well...

m.

fuck · July 2008

Colorsblending9 wrote:

Maybe more effort should be put forth by the Saudi government (or whoever writes the curriculum) to teach Math, Science, Arts, etc.

But the Saudis won't do that themselves. The whole point is that who will do something about it and approach the Saudis to change their curriculum WITHOUT being hypocritical themselves??

canadajammer · July 2008

_outlaw wrote:

And just yesterday you posted a topic to vilify the Lebanese citizens for welcoming back a prisoner that was held by Israel.

Of course not. Anyone who agrees with that is either ignorant or a racist.

Colorsblending, do you not think the US blatantly attempts to spread hate/fear in the name of a cause?

Why doesn't the USA teach their kids that Al-Queda started WW1, or WW2 for that matter.

The Saudis crossed the line a lot further than the USA does right now in terms of education.

They celebrated a man who murdered 3 people including a 4 year-old-girl. Don't you think there is something wrong with that!!

this isn't an Israel debate...I just think there is something terribly wrong with making clear and brutal murderer into a national hero; just as I think it is wrong for people to say: "oh its okay I guess that the Saudis teach their kids these horrible and false things, because American text books aren't perfect either."

fuck · July 2008

jeffbr wrote:

People like me? Like who? What?

Lol, it was different in my head. I didn't mean people like you, I meant comments like those.

Is the OP a US citizen? I have no idea. I always figured the OP was Iraeli, but who knows?

I assume he/she is a US citizen, but either way, my first point is justified and the second point is justified in that most posters here are US citizens so it's definitely relevant.

cincybearcat · July 2008

Colorsblending9 wrote:

They celebrated a man who murdered 3 people including a 4 year-old-girl. Don't you think there is something wrong with that!!

I can't see how you can justify the way he killed a 4-year-old girl...targeted and killed specifically.

canadajammer · July 2008

cincybearcat wrote:

I can't see how you can justify the way he killed a 4-year-old girl...targeted and killed specifically.

Yeah exactly. I can't see how the Lebanese people who celebrated him as a hero can justify what he did.

fuck · July 2008

dg1979us wrote:

But the laws are based around Islam, where as here they arent. I remember reading an article Maureen Dowd wrote when she was over there and she was forced to cover up or face being jailed. So great, she might not be forced to worship Allah, but she still had to follow the Islamic rules that are a set part of society.

I already acknowledged they are an Islamic government. If Ms. Dowd does not like how the laws are over there, then she should leave because it's no secret that it's a government that makes its laws around its religion. It's a country with a Muslim majority that follows those laws either way. Ms. Dowd's story also sounds kind of fake (not calling you a liar) because I have many friends who are girls who aren't forced to cover.

Any rules or beliefs based on a religion are other worldly. If you dont agree with that, then you dont understand religion. If that is insulting so be it, its the truth for any religion.

All I'm saying is that there is a better way of saying it that wouldn't be insulting to a Muslim. Just because you don't agree with the person's religious views does not constitute you calling his/her laws "other worldly"...

And there are plenty of major Islamic religious leaders that applaud and praise violence committed in the name of Allah.

Not really "plenty." A VERY small minority do, actually, and they don't just support ANY random violence committed, they support guerrilla fighting for a just cause. Big difference. During the American Revolution, tons of publications were being sold to get people to fight against the British using guerrilla warfare tactics. Are they insane for doing so?

I never once said all Muslims were extremists, and have several good friends who are Muslims from Iran. So, dont put words in my mouth.

Where did I put words in your mouth? I never claimed you said all Muslims were extremists. My whole point was that you said the "terrible things" Muslims do is "endorsed by religion" when it's not endorsed by the ACTUAL religion but by other people.

Saudi Textbooks still teaching hate

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