Videos of attack on Pentagon
Comments
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nobody wrote:this poll is...useless...I would put a yes to both answers...:)
I think it is NOT naive to come to a board like this and challenge the SPECIFIC view that, and I quote: "brain-washed CIA agents flew the planes into the WTC" which is what I did in my first original thread
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=294832
I really appreciate your input...and I totally agree with you...
my goal here was to challenge overall sensationalist and unsubstantial claims about specific events.
heck, I started this threat because somebody had claimed that no footage was released by the government that shows the pentagon attack...turns out the person meant all the other video footage, but not this one here...well, I'm sorry...but especially in a non-direct conversation, you have to be accurate...
and please, check out my other thread (that is dying otherwise;))
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=295066
and you will see what I am aiming at:)
thank you:)
m.
I watched some of the other thread, but it got out of control so fast it was hard to keep up.
Not sure where the brainwashed CIA agents thing came up, but it's not a view I subscribe to. The tone of the other threads always ends up the same way though. People come into them at first with legitimate questions, legitimate speculative answers and then the ego steps in to insist one is right. In relation to your original thread about the videos in question, no one has been able to offer any kind of explanation to my questions. And I suppose the reality is that no one actually has the answer, whichever side of the fence you sit on. I can't explain the missing frames, but nor can you, or anyone else. But this isn't an unsubstantiated or sensationalist claim, it's a fact. But the facts get lost in the emotional response people have to all of this.
For the record, personally, I started asking questions about all of this the day it happened. Long before the official story was put together, long before a lot of the facts, and many of the misconceptions and outright lies ( on both sides) started flying around. I've spent a lot of time finding as much info as I can about it, and I feel that I am able to pick the bullshit apart from the legit. It's not simply a matter of watching every youtube video and assuming none of it could possibly be fake. I know plenty of it is, and plenty of it is swung the way people want to present it. But at the end of the day, I just don't ( not can't) believe that the US government weren't somehow involved. The extent of that involvement, I have no idea. Did they simply allow it to happen? Were they complicit? Did they orchestrate it from beginning to end? I don't know, but I'd sure like to.0 -
NMyTree wrote:If a plane traveling ten feet off the ground for 300 yards and carrying 12 MTers, 1 Creed fan and 3 Deadheads was headed for the Pentagon; how long would it take the MTers to decide if the chicken be served is an Organic Free Range Chicken or a Penned Full Of Steroids and Anitbiotics chicken?
LMFAO......... thanks!0 -
Medicated-Genius wrote:I watched some of the other thread, but it got out of control so fast it was hard to keep up.
Not sure where the brainwashed CIA agents thing came up, but it's not a view I subscribe to. The tone of the other threads always ends up the same way though. People come into them at first with legitimate questions, legitimate speculative answers and then the ego steps in to insist one is right. In relation to your original thread about the videos in question, no one has been able to offer any kind of explanation to my questions. And I suppose the reality is that no one actually has the answer, whichever side of the fence you sit on. I can't explain the missing frames, but nor can you, or anyone else. But this isn't an unsubstantiated or sensationalist claim, it's a fact. But the facts get lost in the emotional response people have to all of this.
For the record, personally, I started asking questions about all of this the day it happened. Long before the official story was put together, long before a lot of the facts, and many of the misconceptions and outright lies ( on both sides) started flying around. I've spent a lot of time finding as much info as I can about it, and I feel that I am able to pick the bullshit apart from the legit. It's not simply a matter of watching every youtube video and assuming none of it could possibly be fake. I know plenty of it is, and plenty of it is swung the way people want to present it. But at the end of the day, I just don't ( not can't) believe that the US government weren't somehow involved. The extent of that involvement, I have no idea. Did they simply allow it to happen? Were they complicit? Did they orchestrate it from beginning to end? I don't know, but I'd sure like to.
you are very reasonable...other people aren't...and those people I addressed...
EDIT: deleted the last part, cause I really don't want to continue...
m.Godwin's Law:
"As an internet discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one."0 -
The pentagon should have checked in at the security depot for a few more cameras.
http://www.securitycamdepot.com/Home.html
If only... :(Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
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nobody wrote:you are very reasonable...other people aren't...and those people I addressed...
but I just raise this last common sense question:
if the Bush administration either is responsible, or let it happen(knowingly)...they are insane...and this is one thing thatt bothers me about the conspiracy theories...not insane in the way that they like killing people, but in the way that it would be their absolute end if it came out (which can obviously easily be inferred according to some)...and to orchestrate such a complex thing, that not the actual attack is, but the thing consp.theorists claim happened...makes absolutely no sense whatsover, no matter what kind of goals you have...
m.
The Bush Administration....Chenney and all of his corporate buddies and interests....are insane. They've proven that countless times. Iraq is just one HUGE, dispicable example of that insanity. But you don't havce to look to the Iraq War to see the demented insanity.
Just look around....look at the last eight years and what they have done to this country. There's plenty insanity to be viewed. Eight years worth. The Clinton years, too.
All depends on whether we as individuals wnat to close our eyes, cover our ears and dismiss it all; for the purpose of avoiding the harsh reality of it all.
Or if we want to look it straight in the face, bear it and fight to reverse and change the damage done ; not only here in the USA, but on the international level.0 -
First time I've watched clips.
I've not seen or heard anything that leads me to believe anything but planes hit the Pentagon or the Twin Towers. A plane clearly hit the second tower, watched it live on TV. Air control records show airplanes terminating at targets. Now who was in the cockpits & who provided financial backing, thats a different matter.
I do know as Bush was sitting in the kindergarden classroom surrounded by his peers and just sat there dumbfounded....he was thinking....I now have an excuse to attack Iraq and make my daddy proud. Ha ha...10-18-2000 Houston, 04-06-2003 Houston, 6-25-2003 Toronto, 10-8-2004 Kissimmee, 9-4-2005 Calgary, 12-3-05 Sao Paulo, 7-2-2006 Denver, 7-22-06 Gorge, 7-23-2006 Gorge, 9-13-2006 Bern, 6-22-2008 DC, 6-24-2008 MSG, 6-25-2008 MSG0 -
DriftingByTheStorm wrote:Who the fuck is negating facts?
I have NO problem "admitting" that a fucking plane hit the pentagon.
Who put up the money.
Who trained the terrorists.
Who was aware of it.
Who was meeting with who.
Who was doing what and why?
And who is ultimately responsible for the intelligence and defense "failures"?
You really think a bunch of arabs working out of a cave could pull this shit off with out help from the inside?
really?
You want to talk about flaws in logic !??!
Cave dwellers are smarter than you think. They live in caves.Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")0 -
RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:Cave dwellers are smarter than you think. They live in caves.
the fact that you even repeat that people actually planned the attack(s) in caves puzzles me to say the least...now tell me about disinformation...
the fact that I even reply to this utter nonsense puzzles me even more...
by stating things over and over again they don't become true...even if they "make sense", you know...
m.Godwin's Law:
"As an internet discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one."0 -
callen wrote:First time I've watched clips.
I've not seen or heard anything that leads me to believe anything but planes hit the Pentagon or the Twin Towers. A plane clearly hit the second tower, watched it live on TV. Air control records show airplanes terminating at targets. Now who was in the cockpits & who provided financial backing, thats a different matter.
I do know as Bush was sitting in the kindergarden classroom surrounded by his peers and just sat there dumbfounded....he was thinking....I now have an excuse to attack Iraq and make my daddy proud. Ha ha...
thanks for your post, too:)
at least this threat achieved SOMEthing, then...
and you point out correctly, that pilots and finance are different matters...
now I have to bring my post count down...cause I want to keep being a DISSIDENT...;)
m.Godwin's Law:
"As an internet discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one."0 -
nobody wrote:the fact that you even repeat that people actually planned the attack(s) in caves puzzles me to say the least...now tell me about disinformation...
the fact that I even reply to this utter nonsense puzzles me even more...
by stating things over and over again they don't become true...even if they "make sense", you know...
m.
You've been spun into oblivion by mainstream television.Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")0 -
RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:You've been spun into oblivion by mainstream television.
and you are clearly taking your government on face value if you believe people in a cave planned those events...
the attackers were well-educated people (imagine that: education for arabs) that partly lived in europe and the us...
you refute them as attackers, because you can't believe that people in a cave are capable of doing this...
and I know why you can't believe it...because it's not true!:)
you've been spun into oblivion by dubious channels of information to say the least...you know, not everyone who claims the opposite of what the government says is RIGHT...
just apply parts of your self-claimed critical thinking to EVERY source and don't blindly believe only things you want to...it's almost comical...
by the way, have you read that article already that gives other examples of buildings collapsing similiar to the WTC? you know...just for informational purposes...
m.Godwin's Law:
"As an internet discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one."0 -
nobody wrote:this poll is...useless...I would put a yes to both answers...:)
I think it is NOT naive to come to a board like this and challenge the SPECIFIC view that, and I quote: "brain-washed CIA agents flew the planes into the WTC" which is what I did in my first original thread
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=294832
I really appreciate your input...and I totally agree with you...
my goal here was to challenge overall sensationalist and unsubstantial claims about specific events.
heck, I started this threat because somebody had claimed that no footage was released by the government that shows the pentagon attack...turns out the person meant all the other video footage, but not this one here...well, I'm sorry...but especially in a non-direct conversation, you have to be accurate...
and please, check out my other thread (that is dying otherwise;))
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=295066
and you will see what I am aiming at:)
thank you:)
m.
That was me, I'm here in DC and silly me thought everyone has seen what has been released and I can't see what that flash is even with the missing frames. So I paid that video no mind, the cofiscated videos are the ones that could close this story quick.
Peace*We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)0 -
nobody wrote:and you are clearly taking your government on face value if you believe people in a cave planned those events...
the attackers were well-educated people (imagine that: education for arabs) that partly lived in europe and the us...
you refute them as attackers, because you can't believe that people in a cave are capable of doing this...
and I know why you can't believe it...because it's not true!:)
you've been spun into oblivion by dubious channels of information to say the least...you know, not everyone who claims the opposite of what the government says is RIGHT...
just apply parts of your self-claimed critical thinking to EVERY source and don't blindly believe only things you want to...it's almost comical...
by the way, have you read that article already that gives other examples of buildings collapsing similiar to the WTC? you know...just for informational purposes...
m.
It's often said my biggest fault is taking the US government at face value.Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")0 -
Medicated-Genius wrote:LMFAO......... thanks!
You're welcome.
Just trying to ad a little levity to this tense discussion:D
Notice everyone else completely skipped over it and didn't take time to laugh a little at ourselves.
Accounts for the worlds many problems, in my opinion:)0 -
RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:It's often said my biggest fault is taking the US government at face value.
You're such a sap for anything this government tells you.
I can see the hook punctures where you swallowed the bait, from here:D0 -
RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:It's often said my biggest fault is taking the US government at face value.
to basically rewrite my post from above, that you find so amusing:
you're biggest fault is to believe everything at face value that fits your world view and to discard any information that doesn't do so...
m.Godwin's Law:
"As an internet discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one."0 -
nobody wrote:to basically rewrite my post from above, that you find so amusing:
you're biggest fault is to believe everything at face value that fits your world view and to discard any information that doesn't do so...
m.
Not sure about world views, but in relation to this subject, isn't that what you're doing? You feel that the US government weren't involved in the 911 attacks and that they were carried out by Al Quaida operatives in the way the government says they were. Doesn't that mean that you are discarding all the information that doesn't fit with that view? I mean, there is mountains of it. What makes the sources of information dubious? The don't have the White House tick of approval on them?0 -
Medicated-Genius wrote:Not sure about world views, but in relation to this subject, isn't that what you're doing? You feel that the US government weren't involved in the 911 attacks and that they were carried out by Al Quaida operatives in the way the government says they were. Doesn't that mean that you are discarding all the information that doesn't fit with that view? I mean, there is mountains of it. What makes the sources of information dubious? The don't have the White House tick of approval on them?
I am referring to his world view of the US government (or their puppet master, probably bankers(?)) running the world...and his and other's attempts to turn everything into a US vs. world perspective...911 is just one piece of "evidence" that he uses to reveal his truth about THE MAN controlling and enslaving the world...step back for a minute and compare it to some lines in the article about S-Arabian school books, where they claim there is a group of people that runs the world, installing puppet-regimes, controlling the media, and draining the people of their wealth...only they claim it's the jews or the maisons or whatever...that's a (bad) way to explain the world to children, because they can't grasp yet how complex it really is...
and to say it again, since it always seems to get lost: I am all for doubting what the government (or governments in general) say(s), but that doesn't mean that I buy into stories that consist of at least 50% manifactured facts, unsourced information, or sensationalist half truths, only because they are presented in a convincing way...of course they can be true, everything is possible, but then please: first disprove the official stories hard facts, and if you really have any idea what else could have happened dish out your factual proof...
you see: some people still dispute this is a plane when actual plane parts were lying all over the place, when the plane's crew and passengers have obviously vanished form the face of the earth, when a dozen eye-witnesses have seen a plane...what a mystery really...but yeah...the physical evidence was just put there(passengers anyone?) to divert from the real questions...because people in a cave can't do that...
in short: display the same amount of critical thinking when you read non-government information, than when you read government (or main stream media) information...
I know: this seems to be a warped world view for some, too,...that can't be helped...
m.Godwin's Law:
"As an internet discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one."0 -
NMyTree wrote:If a plane traveling ten feet off the ground for 300 yards and carrying 12 MTers, 1 Creed fan and 3 Deadheads was headed for the Pentagon; how long would it take the MTers to decide if the chicken be served is an Organic Free Range Chicken or a Penned Full Of Steroids and Anitbiotics chicken?
haha that was awesome.
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NMyTree wrote:If a plane traveling ten feet off the ground for 300 yards and carrying 12 MTers, 1 Creed fan and 3 Deadheads was headed for the Pentagon; how long would it take the MTers to decide if the chicken be served is an Organic Free Range Chicken or a Penned Full Of Steroids and Anitbiotics chicken?
My wife thought i was funny for laughing so hard at that. Good one.Keep on rockin in the free world!!!!
The economy has polarized to the point where the wealthiest 10% now own 85% of the nation’s wealth. Never before have the bottom 90% been so highly indebted, so dependent on the wealthy.0
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