Suicide

RolandTD20Kdrummer · July 2007

Collin wrote:

I think he or she is a M*A*S*H fan.

That's a mash quote? I've watched every episode practically twice and never pulled that from the show... must have been that episode I missed.

Collin · July 2007

RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:

That's a mash quote? I've watched every episode practically twice and never pulled that from the show... must have been that episode I missed.

I thought it was the theme song?

Abookamongstthemany · July 2007

RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:

That's a mash quote? I've watched every episode practically twice and never pulled that from the show... must have been that episode I missed.

It's in the song at the beginning, if I'm not mistaken.

Abookamongstthemany · July 2007

Collin wrote:

I thought it was the theme song?

jinx

Jeanie · July 2007

Collin wrote:

I thought it was the theme song?

That's correct Collin.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ICiFnQrHOrk

Collin · July 2007

chopitdown wrote:

i watched my grandmother die from bone / breast cancer (she battled it for 7 or 8 years). I watched my aunt die from gallbladder cancer. My friends mother killed herself. I can understand why each of those people probably would have welcomed suicide or relief. So I am not just making htings up out of thin air and trying to piss people off, there's no need for that, which is why every post that I've talked about it being selfish i've also made it very clear that i can see why, without a doubt, someone would want to do that. I made it a point to say that b/c i realize what I'm saying, so i'm sorry that I offended you and esp with this topic it is a very touchy topic and it's bound to spark serious debate and bring in personal stories etc... Please read my entire post and take both points away from the posts. I'm not some guy who thinks that the end of life is an easy decision; i don't assume that you take it lightly and flippantly, i don't want you to think that i do either. We just happen to have different views.

I don't understand. You say you understand why someone in great pain would want a way out, why they would want to relieve the pain.

Yet a solution, a way to relieve that pain is the ultimate selfish act?

When you hurt yourself and you want relief, is that selfish?

Collin · July 2007

Abookamongstthemany wrote:

jinx

I have never even seen an episode of mash. I have no idea why I know it's the theme song.

chopitdown · July 2007

Jeanie wrote:

Fair enough. But I will admit to being sad for you, that selfish is the conclusion you have come to. By that rationale wouldn't anybody who died then be selfish?

please don't be sad for me, saying it's selfish is the easiest conclusion to state knowing that it's selfish with an asterisk and a laundry list of qualifiers. My last rebuttal, if you will to anybody who dies being selfish, is if it's from natural causes it's not selfish, if you're murdered or killed it's not selfish...i guess you could say that since the brain quit getting oxygen at some point the cells got selfish and quit working, but I think that's kind of a stretch

RolandTD20Kdrummer · July 2007

Abookamongstthemany wrote:

It's in the song at the beginning, if I'm not mistaken.

Never thought to look up the title to the theme song probably because it was all instrumental.

norm · July 2007

RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:

Never thought to look up the title to the theme song probably because it was all instrumental.

it was sung in the movie

Through early morning fog I see
Visions of the things to be
The things that are withheld for me
I realize and I can see

That suicide is painless
It brings on many changes
And I can take or leave it if I please

The game of life is hard to play
I'm gonna lose it anyway
The losing card I'll someday lay
So this is all I have to say

Suicide is painless (Suicide)
It brings on many changes (Changes)
And I can take or leave it if I please

The sword of time will pierce our skins
It doesn't hurt when it begins
But as it works its way on in
The pain grows stronger watch it grin

Suicide is painless
It brings on many changes
And I can take or leave it if I please

A brave man once requested me
To answer questions that are key
Is it to be or not to be
And I replied Oh why ask me

Suicide is painless
It brings on many changes
And I can take or leave it if I please
And you can do the same thing if you please

RolandTD20Kdrummer · July 2007

cutback wrote:

it was sung in the movie

That would be the one I missed then...

chopitdown · July 2007

Collin wrote:

I don't understand. You say you understand why someone in great pain would want a way out, why they would want to relieve the pain.

Yet a solution, a way to relieve that pain is the ultimate selfish act?

When you hurt yourself and you want relief, is that selfish?

yes, wanting relief from pain is selfish b/c you are putting your needs or desires above anyone elses. Selfishness is not always bad. If people weren't selfish on some level they wouldn't' work, eat, etc... The magnitude of the selfishness changes. In essence wanting to live could be construed as selfish, so there is nothing inherently wrong with selfishness. But if I'm selfish to my girlfriend I can change and become selfless but the reason i think suicide is the ultimate selfish act is b/c it leaves no room for change or for changing that one action.
Take the people in the great depression who committed suicide over money (we're leaving healthcare out of it) was it not a selfish act to end that "pain"? They thought there was no other way out, and instead of dealing with it they took a different way out so they didn't have to deal with it. It is much easier in my mind and from my view to justify suicide for despair of end stage diseases than it is for other things.

But there is also a component that is underlying as well, something that shapes my view is that there is something greater than ones self. But that is a different topic and will require much more time than I'm able to spend right now.

Jeanie · July 2007

chopitdown wrote:

please don't be sad for me, saying it's selfish is the easiest conclusion to state knowing that it's selfish with an asterisk and a laundry list of qualifiers. My last rebuttal, if you will to anybody who dies being selfish, is if it's from natural causes it's not selfish, if you're murdered or killed it's not selfish...i guess you could say that since the brain quit getting oxygen at some point the cells got selfish and quit working, but I think that's kind of a stretch

I just think it's sad because clearly you have emotions that a person has died and selfish just seems to be a hurt and angry response to that death. Of all the conclusions you could come to about the death of another, why is not sadness, grief, loss and love and thankfulness that the person meant anything to you at all the overriding emotions? Why not celebrate who they were and what they meant to you and all the things you learned from them living? Death just is. It will happen to all of us. To be hurt and angry at a person for their death seems an exercise in futility to me. A person's life is their own, just as their death is their own. And if one suffers pain at the suicide or medically assisted death of another, then how is this different from suffering the pain of them simply dying? I'm curious chopit, because it's not the first time that I've heard the term "selfish" levelled at someone who commits suicide or seeks to end their suffering through medical assistance. and I really don't understand it. Labelling someone for how they die, well it changes nothing. Sorry. Just how I see it.

Jeanie · July 2007

RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:

That would be the one I missed then...

^ youtube link posted up above roland. With lyrics.

Jeanie · July 2007

chopitdown wrote:

yes, wanting relief from pain is selfish b/c you are putting your needs or desires above anyone elses. Selfishness is not always bad. If people weren't selfish on some level they wouldn't' work, eat, etc... The magnitude of the selfishness changes. In essence wanting to live could be construed as selfish, so there is nothing inherently wrong with selfishness. But if I'm selfish to my girlfriend I can change and become selfless but the reason i think suicide is the ultimate selfish act is b/c it leaves no room for change or for changing that one action.
Take the people in the great depression who committed suicide over money (we're leaving healthcare out of it) was it not a selfish act to end that "pain"? They thought there was no other way out, and instead of dealing with it they took a different way out so they didn't have to deal with it. It is much easier in my mind and from my view to justify suicide for despair of end stage diseases than it is for other things.

But there is also a component that is underlying as well, something that shapes my view is that there is something greater than ones self. But that is a different topic and will require much more time than I'm able to spend right now.

Ok what about if you want to die because you know you are a burden to your loved ones?

RolandTD20Kdrummer · July 2007

Jeanie wrote:

^ youtube link posted up above roland. With lyrics.

Thanks Jeanie. I hope you are well.

Byrnzie · July 2007

Collin wrote:

What are your views on suicide?

"If someone chooses to end their life, should we allow them to?"

This question was asked in another thread.

Read Albert Camus' 'The myth of Sisyphus'. It's a philosophical essay on the subject of suicide. Very interesting.

RolandTD20Kdrummer · July 2007

Collin wrote:

I have never even seen an episode of mash. I have no idea why I know it's the theme song.

Remind me never to play trivial pursuit against you for money

hippiemom · July 2007

I see a big difference between people killing themselves for reasons that can be treated (most mental illnesses) and things that can't (end stage cancer, Alzheimer's, etc.) I can't say I see the point in making it illegal, what's the sense in that? But definitely, an otherwise healthy person who wants to kill themselves because of a mental illness should be stopped and given treatment to alleviate the mental illness.

Sane and rational people who wants to end their lives because they are in tremendous pain that can't be treated, or because they know that they're about to lose control of their minds ... that's an entirely different matter and those people should be able to get assistance in ending their lives if they need it.

Jeanie · July 2007

RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:

Thanks Jeanie. I hope you are well.

You're welcome.

ditto.

Suicide

Comments

Categories