A question about Jesus.
Comments
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mxaaron wrote:God is for idiots? Why? Has this always been the case? Is being an idiot a necessary condition for believing in God?
yes .. if you believe that there is some fucker in the sky... you are an idiot0 -
brocabulary wrote:not really. How smart can they really be to believe that ghost 'n goblins shit ?
Huh? What is "ghost 'n goblins shit"? Do you mean belief in God? Jesus? Specific Christian claims like the resurrection?0 -
brocabulary wrote:yes .. if you believe that there is some fucker in the sky... you are an idiot
I don't believe that at all...What a silly misrepresentation of Christian theology!
You have not made it entirely clear as to why belief in God makes one an idiot...you just keep calling everything a "fucker". I don't think that alone is helping your case...0 -
mxaaron wrote:I don't believe that at all...What a silly misrepresentation of Christian theology!
You have not made it entirely clear as to why belief in God makes one an idiot...you just keep calling everything a "fucker". I don't think that alone is helping your case...
Exactly.
Seems to be making a case that non-believers are dumb.
Seriously, when you cuss a lot you just sound dumb.So I'll just lie down and wait for the dream
Where I'm not ugly and you're lookin' at me0 -
Not Buddhism, and I have studied the Bible, don't go to a church, but have in the past. I have spend the last few years daily reading many books which has brought to me, in my opinion, a light of truth that I cannot find fault in so far. Where it came from, I don't know. What it has done to my life, is changed it in a most amazing way. And my personal philosophy on the whole religion thing is take each message at the value it has brought to your own life. Good coming from a source of good and evil from evil. Disregarding the source. Theology and theosophy, I have studied.
The trinity I believe in and here is a snippet of the things that are in my book.
Interpret them as you want to, but know that there are many meanings, hidden and directly implied. The book is called the Kolbrin. I have been studying from it daily for almost a year and a half, only recently starting to study the other books that complement this book. It is hailed as a book of Celtic and Egyptian wisdom that was hidden for years brought by the followers of christ to Glastonbury, Scotland where it was housed at a church later burned to destroy these books, scrolls and tablets. They ended up being stored in a different area and was held by a group of druid priests for hundreds of years before being published out of New Zealand. I have the original first printing of the book. Which now need replaced because it's binding has fallen apart. The wisdom inside has changed my life. Where it comes from is of no interest to me, but you asked so...
Here is what it has to say about the Trinity. They are not my words and copied as far as I can tell completely and exactly.
"These things, which follow, are found in the Book of Recitals
There are three adornment of life: Love, Truth and Beauty.
There are three things of which God is the source: Life, Wisdom and Power.
There are three things which men must get from living: The greatest benefit, the greatest knowledge, and the greatest experience.
There are three causes in which it is fitting that men should risk their lives: In establishing Truth, in upholding Justice, and in seeking Liberty.
There are three paramount qualities to which all else should be subordinate: Love, Truth, and Good.
There are Three things men should put above themselves: Their faith, their race, and humankind.
There are three things a man should value above his life and possessions: His family, his honour and his reputation.
There are three principles of government: Effective security of life and person, security of possessions and dwelling, and security of personal rights.
There are three things which a government must hold inviolate: A man's family, his dignity and his opinion.
There are three things government must provide: Education, Justice, and safety.
There are three pillars of the state: The questing scholar, the diligent craftsman, and the incorruptible official.
There are three unities: One God, One Truth and One Creation.
There are three things for which the Earth exists: The development of souls, the fulfilment of the destiny of man, and the manifestation of life.
There are three things man must give to life: Beauty, Stability and Harmony.
There are three things women must give to life: Love, Goodness, and Compassion.
There are three things only God can do: Constantly renew himself in the infinate Circle of Eternity, remain unchanging while impregnating every state of changability, and encompass everything existing.
There are three things required of men: The ability to change what is changeable, to accept that which is unchangeable, and to know the difference.
There are three virtues of maidenhood: Prudence, Modesty, and Decorum.
There are three virtues of wifehood: Faithfulness, Industriousness, and Motherliness.
There are three graces: Faith, Hope, and Love.
There are three things to know about God: He must be sought for, He cannot be given anything by man which increases His Greatness and he dwells within His own law.
There are three rights of man: Freedom to move, to enjoy privacy, and to speak his mind.
There are three things God requires of man: Effort, Courage, and Reverence for the sacred.
There are three duties of woman: To reproduce the race, to inspire man, and beautify life.
There are three duties of man: To protect the race, strive for progress, and elevate humankind.
There are three things which distort the soul: Malice, Deceit, and Sensuality.
There are three things which govern a man's relationship with others: What he requires in another, what he forbids in another, and what he regards with indifference as being entirely the concern of another.
There are three things which shatter a man's life: An unfaithful wife, invasion by foriegners, and crippling disease.
There are three principles of greatness: Obediance to the law, concern for the welfare of the community, and the ability to suffer with fortitude all the blows of fate.
There are three states of being: That of God in the Great Circle, that of Spirit in the Outer Circle, and that of matter in the Inner Circle.
There are three duties of parenthood: To protect, to cherish, and to educate the child.
There are three duties of a child toward it's parents: Obedience, Respect and Loyalty.
There are three qualities of a husband: Consideration, Protectiveness, and Care.
There are three essientials of manhood: Courage, Fortitude, and Honour.
There are three qualities of womanhood: Loyalty, Decency, and Gentleness.
There are three jewels of womanhood: Modesty, Decorum, and Circumspection.
There are three prime qualities of the real man: The ability to maintain self-control, the ability to remain calm under stress and provication, and the ability to not stand too rigidly on his rights.
There are three things in men that other men hate:Saying one thing with the mouth while holding something quite different in the heart, withholding evidence in favour of another to the detriment of another, and spreading scandal and gossip.
There are three things that hold the state in cohesion: Effective protection for everyone and their property, just punishment when due, and a proper blend of punishment and mercy.
There are three obligations of men in war: To kill and not be killed, to destroy the enemy and his possessions, and to survive the onslaught.
There are three types of persons who cannot bear arms: A bondsman, a boy under fifteen, and a public idiot.
There are three kinds of stone for which removal is death: A council stone, a session stone, and a guide stone.
There are three things for which the punishment shall be greater than death: Killing a kinsman, killing a child or virgin, and killing an idiot.
There are three things for which the trumpet sounds three times: The counting of heads and the numbering of families, the horns of harvest and the horns of war.
There are three persons who can demand hospitality: The traveller from afar, the afflicted or orphan, and the bard.
There are three groups entitled to freedom of movement and maintenence: Chiefs of tribes and their retinue, druids and their followers, and judges and the retainers of their courts.
There are three types who can claim citizenship: Those who bring new land under cultivation, those who work with metals, and those who bear arms.
There are three basic protections: Protection of life and persons, protection of possessions and dwelling and protection of natural privileges.
There are three types of persons who forfeit life: One who betrays his country, race, or kindred, one who kills another through visciousness, lust or gain, and one who injures a child for life.
There are three things which are indivisible and unghangeable: The Supreme Being, Truth and Reality.
There is one God, Truth and Reality.
There are three necessities of man: Change, Suffering, and Choice.
There are three tests to determine a free man: He has equal rights with every other man, he has no more obligation to the government than it has to him, and he has the freedom to come and go.
There are three things essiential to a united nationhood: The same language, the same rights for all and the same race.
There are three things which are private, untouchable, and sacred to every man: his wife, his children and his tools of trade.
There are three persons in the family exempt from menial or heavy work: The small child, the aged man or woman, and the sick and afflicted.
There are three civil birthrights: The right to free movement, the right of protection for family, possessions and liberty, and the right to equality in privilege and restriction.
There are three requirements for social stability: Security of life and limb, security of family and possessions, and security of traditions and culture.
There are three foundations of the nation: National solidarity, national courage and national pride.
There are three things a man can be legally compelled to do: Fulfil his family obligations, attend a law court and serve in the military in times of national peril.
There are three things for which a man can be called a traitor: Aiding the enemy, meekly submitting to an enemy, adn betraying his race.
There are three things no law can deny: Water from a spring, river, or lake, wood from a decayed or naturally fallen tree or branch, and unused stone.
There are three forms of sonship: A son born within a marriage, a son born outside a marriage but publically accknowledged by the father, and a son by adoption.
There are three types of thieves not to be punished: A woman compelled to steal by her father or husband, a young child and a starving person who steal to eat.
There are three things which must remain open and free to all: Rivers, roads and places of worship.
Here are some online links to the book
http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/hercolobus/kolbrin01.htm
http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/hercolobus/kolbrin02.htm
http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/hercolobus/kolbrin03.htm
http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/hercolobus/kolbrin04.htm
http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/hercolobus/kolbrin05.htmI want to point out that people who seem to have no power, whether working people, people of color, or women -- once they organize and protest and create movements -- have a voice no government can suppress. Howard Zinn0 -
Not sure where this fits in, if at all. But the early Church tired to fit in as many outside religious beliefs into Christianity as possible in order to get people to convert. They wanted as many followers as possible, so they incorporated aspects of their belief system into Christianity to make it more palatable.
Roman gods and goddesses = saints
Communion at altar = human sacrifice
Holy Trinity could fit in this way as well, as Christianity spread into Egypt.Turn this anger into
Nuclear fission0 -
Jesus was a myth. Jesuis, Jezeus, etc... were names of other messiahs in pagan traditions.
The virgin birth is not impossible because Mary never had sex, on a vary rare chance Mary could have had a virgin birth, but since Mary only has X chromosomes, she could have only given a virgin birth to a female child. Men have XY configuration.I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire0 -
brocabulary wrote:what makes the fucker that believes in christ/baby/jesus/santa different from the fucker who believes in bigfoot? or god ....or the tooth fairy ???
none deserve any acceptance .
god is for idiotsThis isn't the land of opportunity, it's the land of competition.0 -
brocabulary wrote:yes .. if you believe that there is some fucker in the sky... you are an idiotThis isn't the land of opportunity, it's the land of competition.0
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Ahnimus wrote:Jesus was a myth. Jesuis, Jezeus, etc... were names of other messiahs in pagan traditions.
The virgin birth is not impossible because Mary never had sex, on a vary rare chance Mary could have had a virgin birth, but since Mary only has X chromosomes, she could have only given a virgin birth to a female child. Men have XY configuration.This isn't the land of opportunity, it's the land of competition.0 -
deadnothingbetter wrote:what if it turns out that there really is a bigfoot??? who's the idiot now?
I wouldn't accept being labeled an idiot for a disbelief in something without sufficient evidence, but rather ignorant for disbelief without sufficient knowledge. It might however, take an idiot, to believe in something without sufficient knowledge.
Obviously the difference being that an idiot is someone with below average intelligence and an ignoramus is someone who is lacking sufficient knowledge.I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire0 -
deadnothingbetter wrote:that means nothing when we're talking about God here.
I thought it was a question about Jesus.
Or you mean "God created the laws of the universe, but God also circumvents those laws when needed."
Wouldn't God have designed the universe such that he wouldn't have to perform miracles?
Quantify God.I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire0 -
Ahnimus wrote:I wouldn't accept being labeled an idiot for a disbelief in something without sufficient evidence, but rather ignorant for disbelief without sufficient knowledge. It might however, take an idiot, to believe in something without sufficient knowledge.
Obviously the difference being that an idiot is someone with below average intelligence and an ignoramus is someone who is lacking sufficient knowledge.This isn't the land of opportunity, it's the land of competition.0 -
deadnothingbetter wrote:then maybe we'd either be ignoramus.... or just people of faith. but not idiots.
Clearly "people of faith" and "ignoramuses" are synonymous, since both mean a lack of knowledge.
The word idiot is used very loosely in social contexts, which is why the clinical community was forced to use retarded but now that has been hijacked by myopic ignoramuses as well. I think the PC term is now Neuronally Diverse. But I'm sure in ten years time, that will be considered a socially degrading insult as well.I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire0 -
Ahnimus wrote:I thought it was a question about Jesus.
Or you mean "God created the laws of the universe, but God also circumvents those laws when needed."
Wouldn't God have designed the universe such that he wouldn't have to perform miracles?
Quantify God.
but why does this matter?Wouldn't God have designed the universe such that he wouldn't have to perform miracles?
from my understanding... he basically could do whatever he wants. i guess i could only quantify god that much.
but if you'd really want to get into the details of it.... this argument reminds me of the one i had with soulsinging that probably went on for about 2 months or so.
suppose that the laws of the universe are, "we live and die".... well, originally, if you'd read the bible, it wasn't God's intention for us to "die". but because sin had entered, it corrupted our immortal states and therefore we became mortals.
sure, God was all-powerful to change that, but the problem was he couldn't interfere with our will (which that would be something you'd have a hard time realizing since you're not a believer in "free-will" i guess i could only help you that much) but bare with me, i beg you.
see, once adam and eve had chosen to eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil... they gave the serpent their own rights. spiritually speaking, of course. in hebrews chapter 2 you read jesus goes to hell to take back from satan the power of hell and death. and it was through that power that we, as humans, were held captive.
i tell you this, to tell you the former. the way we see the universe right now it is under this "corrupted" form. see natural disasters, humans killing humans... all deeds of corrupted natures. right now this world is under our very own jurisdiction. and since we've "fallen short from the glory of God" the world is also under a corrupted nature.
therefore, could God have designed the universe in such a way that he didn't have to perform miracles? yes, he did, originally. or wait... switch that around, see cause what you call the laws of the universe were at one point not even laws. there were no laws before.... but now that we see things the way they are we see "laws" of nature, or laws of the universe (which you like to mention).This isn't the land of opportunity, it's the land of competition.0 -
Ahnimus wrote:Clearly "people of faith" and "ignoramuses" are synonymous, since both mean a lack of knowledge.
The word idiot is used very loosely in social contexts, which is why the clinical community was forced to use retarded but now that has been hijacked by myopic ignoramuses as well. I think the PC term is now Neuronally Diverse. But I'm sure in ten years time, that will be considered a socially degrading insult as well.This isn't the land of opportunity, it's the land of competition.0 -
So then does anyone dispute the case that Christ's 'divinity' is largely based on his lineage as a direct descendant of King David? That being through Joseph, the father. Not Mary, the 'virgin' mother.
I question the validity of such a claim. Was he born divine, through the action of no man alone? Or was he a man, born of a man and woman, not unlike any of us, but born during a time of speculation and prophecy, when the stars in the heavens gave a sign that a child would be born (astrotheology).
And because of his upbringing, his teachings, his travels as a youth, his followers including Joseph of Arimathea, who gave him his own tomb for burial, a rich man who was in Pilate's court. Jesus' secret follower. The man who begged Pilate for the body to be entombed instead of placed in a mass grave. The man who when the crucifixion was taking too long and the soldiers asked to break the legs of those crucified, stood up and proclaimed he already being dead, so his legs were spared. This being the same Joseph who brought the teachings of Jesus to Glastonbury after his death. (To the same church of the supposed King Arthur and Gwinevere? - sidenote) There is so much myth enshrouded in the current belief system. I would like to believe that he chose his crucifixion so that he might live through the teachings of his word. I could be wrong and am the first to admit it.
He was named "the chosen one" by his people. And through his death only, was his word carried far and wide, bringing Christianity to its current form. Doubtful that in Christianity's current form, it's meaning is the same.I want to point out that people who seem to have no power, whether working people, people of color, or women -- once they organize and protest and create movements -- have a voice no government can suppress. Howard Zinn0 -
deadnothingbetter wrote:i can't quantify god... it's impossible.
but why does this matter?
from my understanding... he basically could do whatever he wants. i guess i could only quantify god that much.
but if you'd really want to get into the details of it.... this argument reminds me of the one i had with soulsinging that probably went on for about 2 months or so.
suppose that the laws of the universe are, "we live and die".... well, originally, if you'd read the bible, it wasn't God's intention for us to "die". but because sin had entered, it corrupted our immortal states and therefore we became mortals.
As much as I hate scripture, I present you with a scriptoral refutation of that claim.
Genesis 22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
So, it was the other way around. God didn't want us living forever.sure, God was all-powerful to change that, but the problem was he couldn't interfere with our will (which that would be something you'd have a hard time realizing since you're not a believer in "free-will" i guess i could only help you that much) but bare with me, i beg you.
see, once adam and eve had chosen to eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil... they gave the serpent their own rights. spiritually speaking, of course. in hebrews chapter 2 you read jesus goes to hell to take back from satan the power of hell and death. and it was through that power that we, as humans, were held captive.
i tell you this, to tell you the former. the way we see the universe right now it is under this "corrupted" form. see natural disasters, humans killing humans... all deeds of corrupted natures. right now this world is under our very own jurisdiction. and since we've "fallen short from the glory of God" the world is also under a corrupted nature.
therefore, could God have designed the universe in such a way that he didn't have to perform miracles? yes, he did, originally. or wait... switch that around, see cause what you call the laws of the universe were at one point not even laws. there were no laws before.... but now that we see things the way they are we see "laws" of nature, or laws of the universe (which you like to mention).
Another point, there has been a massive decline in violence since Biblical times. Steven Pinker gave a talk at TED on the history of violence
http://www.ted.com/talks/view/id/163I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire0 -
Ahnimus wrote:As much as I hate scripture, I present you with a scriptoral refutation of that claim.
Genesis 22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
So, it was the other way around. God didn't want us living forever.Another point, there has been a massive decline in violence since Biblical times. Steven Pinker gave a talk at TED on the history of violence
http://www.ted.com/talks/view/id/163This isn't the land of opportunity, it's the land of competition.0 -
binger wrote:So then does anyone dispute the case that Christ's 'divinity' is largely based on his lineage as a direct descendant of King David? That being through Joseph, the father. Not Mary, the 'virgin' mother.
I question the validity of such a claim. Was he born divine, through the action of no man alone? Or was he a man, born of a man and woman, not unlike any of us, but born during a time of speculation and prophecy, when the stars in the heavens gave a sign that a child would be born (astrotheology).
And because of his upbringing, his teachings, his travels as a youth, his followers including Joseph of Arimathea, who gave him his own tomb for burial, a rich man who was in Pilate's court. Jesus' secret follower. The man who begged Pilate for the body to be entombed instead of placed in a mass grave. The man who when the crucifixion was taking too long and the soldiers asked to break the legs of those crucified, stood up and proclaimed he already being dead, so his legs were spared. This being the same Joseph who brought the teachings of Jesus to Glastonbury after his death. (To the same church of the supposed King Arthur and Gwinevere? - sidenote) There is so much myth enshrouded in the current belief system. I would like to believe that he chose his crucifixion so that he might live through the teachings of his word. I could be wrong and am the first to admit it.
He was named "the chosen one" by his people. And through his death only, was his word carried far and wide, bringing Christianity to its current form. Doubtful that in Christianity's current form, it's meaning is the same.
According to some other literature of the time... Jesus was the son of Pandera/Pantera/Pantheras.
In 178 CE, the pagan writer Celsus, in a polemic against Christianity, claimed that he had heard from a Jew that Mary had been divorced by her husband after having an affair with a Roman soldier named Pantheras who was the real father of Jesus. The similarity between Pantheras and Pandera as well as the detail of the lover being a Roman soldier, suggests that Celsus' claim has its origins in material later incorporated in the Talmud. But whereas the Talmud presents separate anecdotes, in Celsus' version they are conflated. The Toledot Yeshu narratives similarly conflate the various anecdotes, and this may be the source for the later common Jewish description of Jesus as Yeshu ben Pandera.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben_Pandera
The claim that Jesus was born of the 'virgin' Mary is entirely unique to the Christian Bible.I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire0
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