Have you taken 5 minutes to look into anything I mention or do you just dismiss it because it doesn't jive with what you want reality to be?
perception is reality.....everyone is entitled to their own.....
i only want for you what makes you happy.
if you're happy, who am i to question it???
peace ~ h
If I had known then...what I know now...
the vic ~ 8.2.07
eV at The Ryman ~ 6.18.09
st. louis ~ 5.4.10
If we all did a little, together we could make a BIG difference....wanna help us?
Then visit http://wishlistfoundation.fancorps.com
I've been looking at Heather's "location" all night, in awe that there is a town called Ledbetter in KY.
i did not make this up....lived there for 23 years!!!
it's just northeast of paducah in western kentucky.....go ahead & look it up.....u know u want to!!!
If I had known then...what I know now...
the vic ~ 8.2.07
eV at The Ryman ~ 6.18.09
st. louis ~ 5.4.10
If we all did a little, together we could make a BIG difference....wanna help us?
Then visit http://wishlistfoundation.fancorps.com
perception is reality.....everyone is entitled to their own.....
i only want for you what makes you happy.
if you're happy, who am i to question it???
peace ~ h
Take a minute to think this through.
John Doe believes that, in reality, blowing up the WTC buildings will land him a seat at the right hand of God.
Is he entitled to that perception?
If Jane believes that John is wrong and doesn't wish to be destroyed in a terrorist attack to support his perception, is her perception anymore valid than his?
If all the Jews believe that the Dome of the Rock must be destroyed for the messiah to come, and all the Moslems believe that Israel must be destroyed for Allah. Who's perception is real? Who's perception do we respect?
Do we just let everyone live in conflict?
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
everything plays it's part in the grand scheme of things.
If I had known then...what I know now...
the vic ~ 8.2.07
eV at The Ryman ~ 6.18.09
st. louis ~ 5.4.10
If we all did a little, together we could make a BIG difference....wanna help us?
Then visit http://wishlistfoundation.fancorps.com
Have you taken 5 minutes to look into anything I mention or do you just dismiss it because it doesn't jive with what you want reality to be?
your determinism is currently a worthless theory. i can raise my kid catholic (i never would, but i could) and you could beat the living shit out of yours daily and mine could turn into a serial rapist and yours into a pillar of the community devoted to eradicating domestic violence. or mine could turn out to be a politician fighting for social justice and yours into a drunken homeless brawler. you have no idea and you cannot predict. determinism does this no better or more accurately than sociology, psychology, theology or plain common sense. this is why your philosophy is no better off than buddhism, 12 step programs, catholic theology, or anything else in terms of serving as a guide for human behavior.
just to say that while looking up the KY post on the Porch, I read an excellent article that someone just posted there, about two films that Ed wrote music for.
Go look. You'll find Ed talking about Iraq, amongst other things.
Okay, the rest of you, get on with your argument. I'm going to bed.
John Doe believes that, in reality, blowing up the WTC buildings will land him a seat at the right hand of God.
Is he entitled to that perception?
If Jane believes that John is wrong and doesn't wish to be destroyed in a terrorist attack to support his perception, is her perception anymore valid than his?
If all the Jews believe that the Dome of the Rock must be destroyed for the messiah to come, and all the Moslems believe that Israel must be destroyed for Allah. Who's perception is real? Who's perception do we respect?
Do we just let everyone live in conflict?
what's your point? religion is not the only source of conflict. if not religion, it would be class, race, or income. if not those, it would be doctor 1 whose deterministic aptitude tests indicate A against doctor 2 whose tests indicate B.
just to say that while looking up the KY post on the Porch, I read an excellent article that someone just posted there, about two films that Ed wrote music for.
Go look. You'll find Ed talking about Iraq, amongst other things.
Okay, the rest of you, get on with your argument. I'm going to bed.
Love,
Bu
Thanks for the info. I think it's my bedtime too....
Heather, what dou you mean when you say "perception is reality.....everyone is entitled to their own..."
is the sky blue, or is the sky denim with gray undertones??
it's all in how u see it.
if i perceive something in a way that is different from someone else, i'm not saying they're wrong & i'm right.....
i'm just saying that we see things differently. that is my reality.
If I had known then...what I know now...
the vic ~ 8.2.07
eV at The Ryman ~ 6.18.09
st. louis ~ 5.4.10
If we all did a little, together we could make a BIG difference....wanna help us?
Then visit http://wishlistfoundation.fancorps.com
the vic ~ 8.2.07
eV at The Ryman ~ 6.18.09
st. louis ~ 5.4.10
If we all did a little, together we could make a BIG difference....wanna help us?
Then visit http://wishlistfoundation.fancorps.com
your determinism is currently a worthless theory. i can raise my kid catholic (i never would, but i could) and you could beat the living shit out of yours daily and mine could turn into a serial rapist and yours into a pillar of the community devoted to eradicating domestic violence. or mine could turn out to be a politician fighting for social justice and yours into a drunken homeless brawler. you have no idea and you cannot predict. determinism does this no better or more accurately than sociology, psychology, theology or plain common sense. this is why your philosophy is no better off than buddhism, 12 step programs, catholic theology, or anything else in terms of serving as a guide for human behavior.
Your ignorance is bright and clear.
Sociology and Psychology are based on scientific determinism. All science is based on determinism and science has done a shitload more for humanity than any fucking religion has. Wake up Soulsinging.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
what's your point? religion is not the only source of conflict. if not religion, it would be class, race, or income. if not those, it would be doctor 1 whose deterministic aptitude tests indicate A against doctor 2 whose tests indicate B.
It was an example of a conflict of perceptions. Meanwhile, reality is, as Angelica might say, "in complete harmony with it's self". Perception is not reality, perceptions are in conflict, and reality cannot exist in conflict it has to be orderly.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
what makes the fucker that believes in christ/baby/jesus/santa different from the fucker who believes in bigfoot? or god ....or the tooth fairy ???
none deserve any acceptance .
god is for idiots
i may be an athiest...and at times i certainly may be a real asshole...but to call somebody a "fucker" because they believe in god is pretty much as ignorant as i'm sure you imagine religion to be. science and reason take us back a loooong way, and no religion has an ultimate answer to anything. but guess what...neither do you. taoists, sikhists, christians, jews, muslims, buddhists....they all have about as much of a valid opinion of existentialism as you do, sooo...you might as well climb down off that horse. i'm sure the view is nice but the arrogance seems to be affecting your judgement. in a world where there is no society that exists wholly without religion, what do you expect to accomplish by spreading such impulsive hatred towards religious groups?
if someone practices a religion in a devoted, kind, and peaceful way, i'd like to know what's wrong with that. they may not be right. but so fucking what? they believe in something that makes them feel better about the world and themselves, and they believe in something that gives them purpose. radicals and fundementalists? that's a different story...they're about as bad as the people who call others 'fuckers' for believing in a god...but just a stable, normal, and considerate person who happens to put stock in a religious faith? oh boy, what a fucker!
Do you see the way that tree bends?
Does it inspire?
Leaning out to catch the sun's rays...
A lesson to be applied.
Best night of my life. . .
Noblesville, IN 06-22-03.
Sociology and Psychology are based on scientific determinism. All science is based on determinism and science has done a shitload more for humanity than any fucking religion has. Wake up Soulsinging.
but it hasn't done more than jesus.
This isn't the land of opportunity, it's the land of competition.
Sociology and Psychology are based on scientific determinism. All science is based on determinism and science has done a shitload more for humanity than any fucking religion has. Wake up Soulsinging.
religion gave us science... the search for our place in the universe started with religion and evolved into science. determinism, as i understand it, is that humans have no independence and cannot think on their own. we are slaves to electrons and have no unique traits aside form different stimuli. sociology talks nothing about this, only noting group behavioral trends. no sociology i've ever read has said it can look at an individual's group and tell you exactly how that individual will behave. no psychology i have ever read has claimed that based on its research it can tell you exactly what person x will do in y situation. you claim determinism can do this. that all we lack is the number crunching capabilities right now. and i think you're blowing smoke. that is why psych and sociology are called soft sciences, and regarded differently from neurology. and im saying determinism is more like psychology than neurology. determinism cannot provide the predictive accuracy of physics theories of gravity. and thus your pet faith is little better off than any other lens of seeing the world.
tell me right now... i'm a white male, 25, living in chicago. what will i eat for dinner? i can't make the choice right? it's science that is making the choice. if i get hit by a car tomorrow, how will it affect my career? you don't know, do you?
but i can tell you exactly what will happen to an apple that falls off a tree.
It was an example of a conflict of perceptions. Meanwhile, reality is, as Angelica might say, "in complete harmony with it's self". Perception is not reality, perceptions are in conflict, and reality cannot exist in conflict it has to be orderly.
and my point was determinism does nothing to resolve this. becos doctor a and doctor b will still be arguing about whose perception of the data is correct and whether you should be classified as a retard or a genius.
religion gave us science... the search for our place in the universe started with religion and evolved into science. determinism, as i understand it, is that humans have no independence and cannot think on their own. we are slaves to electrons and have no unique traits aside form different stimuli. sociology talks nothing about this, only noting group behavioral trends. no sociology i've ever read has said it can look at an individual's group and tell you exactly how that individual will behave. no psychology i have ever read has claimed that based on its research it can tell you exactly what person x will do in y situation. you claim determinism can do this. that all we lack is the number crunching capabilities right now. and i think you're blowing smoke. that is why psych and sociology are called soft sciences, and regarded differently from neurology. and im saying determinism is more like psychology than neurology. determinism cannot provide the predictive accuracy of physics theories of gravity. and thus your pet faith is little better off than any other lens of seeing the world.
tell me right now... i'm a white male, 25, living in chicago. what will i eat for dinner? i can't make the choice right? it's science that is making the choice. if i get hit by a car tomorrow, how will it affect my career? you don't know, do you?
but i can tell you exactly what will happen to an apple that falls off a tree.
I'm with you on this, soulsinging. Sociology and psychology as disciplines and sciences cannot claim hard determinism given what we know. It's the personal opinions of individuals beyond the disciplines themselves that make such claims.
I tend to agree with Ahnimus that everything is determined down to minute details in both sociology and psychology, whether it's proven or not. And still, that remains opinion.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
I'd like to add that I believe total determinism and free choice in each moment are completely compatible at all times.
i sort of do. i cannot see what difference it makes. since it is flat out impossible to have 2 persons with the same stimuli at all times from birth to death, it doesn't matter what you call it. everyone is still acting differently and on their own desires. whether you think those desires are a result of free will or a lifetime of stimuli doesn't matter... the result is going to be the same, namely, this guy acting differently from that and so on down the line.
i sort of do. i cannot see what difference it makes. since it is flat out impossible to have 2 persons with the same stimuli at all times from birth to death, it doesn't matter what you call it. everyone is still acting differently and on their own desires. whether you think those desires are a result of free will or a lifetime of stimuli doesn't matter... the result is going to be the same, namely, this guy acting differently from that and so on down the line.
That's basically it for me. It's still our power to choose. Sometimes my choices have been ludicrously limited. And still, *I*--my ego sense of my own individuality including my past influences and my brain programming--decided my course of action, and created the consequences of my actions.
In any determined system, the *I* of us, which is the personal individual ego, plays a BIG role. It plays our one and only crucial role in determining the quality of our personal experience. That's HUGE for me. It was also huge when I was not aware of my own power and unconsciously made many self-undermining poor choices and created a poor personal experience. *I* was held accountable for my choices by life, itself, even though *I* felt the consequences were totally random and had nothing to do with my "little ole powerless self". The *I* of us decides on our priorities, and how to use or abuse our potential energy.
The psychological view of the ego or the *I* of any one of us is that it is the interface of who we are as our base energy interacts in the world. The ego is not who we are. It's a useful veil that is connected to our base undifferentiated human potential and energy that is available to all humans. It is the *I* itself that differentiates this human energy into uniqueness. The *I* holds our personality, and our life scripts that we learned in order to meet our needs, and that we often unerringly follow along. This veil makes us individual and gives us our sense of "me" or "you".
We can always choose to rise above our personalities, our scripts, and our egos, and uncover who we are. Our free choice is the key to unlocking who we really are.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
Comments
I don't know....some guys say I am.....some others don't.
Do I like to get hot now and then? Hell yeah!
perception is reality.....everyone is entitled to their own.....
i only want for you what makes you happy.
if you're happy, who am i to question it???
peace ~ h
the vic ~ 8.2.07
eV at The Ryman ~ 6.18.09
st. louis ~ 5.4.10
If we all did a little, together we could make a BIG difference....wanna help us?
Then visit http://wishlistfoundation.fancorps.com
Not to interrupt, but there is a call for KY Jammers at the Porch...
I've been looking at Heather's "location" all night, in awe that there is a town called Ledbetter in KY.
i did not make this up....lived there for 23 years!!!
it's just northeast of paducah in western kentucky.....go ahead & look it up.....u know u want to!!!
the vic ~ 8.2.07
eV at The Ryman ~ 6.18.09
st. louis ~ 5.4.10
If we all did a little, together we could make a BIG difference....wanna help us?
Then visit http://wishlistfoundation.fancorps.com
Take a minute to think this through.
John Doe believes that, in reality, blowing up the WTC buildings will land him a seat at the right hand of God.
Is he entitled to that perception?
If Jane believes that John is wrong and doesn't wish to be destroyed in a terrorist attack to support his perception, is her perception anymore valid than his?
If all the Jews believe that the Dome of the Rock must be destroyed for the messiah to come, and all the Moslems believe that Israel must be destroyed for Allah. Who's perception is real? Who's perception do we respect?
Do we just let everyone live in conflict?
the vic ~ 8.2.07
eV at The Ryman ~ 6.18.09
st. louis ~ 5.4.10
If we all did a little, together we could make a BIG difference....wanna help us?
Then visit http://wishlistfoundation.fancorps.com
your determinism is currently a worthless theory. i can raise my kid catholic (i never would, but i could) and you could beat the living shit out of yours daily and mine could turn into a serial rapist and yours into a pillar of the community devoted to eradicating domestic violence. or mine could turn out to be a politician fighting for social justice and yours into a drunken homeless brawler. you have no idea and you cannot predict. determinism does this no better or more accurately than sociology, psychology, theology or plain common sense. this is why your philosophy is no better off than buddhism, 12 step programs, catholic theology, or anything else in terms of serving as a guide for human behavior.
Go look. You'll find Ed talking about Iraq, amongst other things.
Okay, the rest of you, get on with your argument. I'm going to bed.
Love,
Bu
In what sense are we using "perception"?
Heather, what dou you mean when you say "perception is reality.....everyone is entitled to their own..."
what's your point? religion is not the only source of conflict. if not religion, it would be class, race, or income. if not those, it would be doctor 1 whose deterministic aptitude tests indicate A against doctor 2 whose tests indicate B.
i guess for some reason i thought you were a guy and then i read the pole dancing... threw me off
Thanks for the info. I think it's my bedtime too....
....It happens all the time.
*flashes soulsinging*
See? They're tits. And they're real.
is the sky blue, or is the sky denim with gray undertones??
it's all in how u see it.
if i perceive something in a way that is different from someone else, i'm not saying they're wrong & i'm right.....
i'm just saying that we see things differently. that is my reality.
the vic ~ 8.2.07
eV at The Ryman ~ 6.18.09
st. louis ~ 5.4.10
If we all did a little, together we could make a BIG difference....wanna help us?
Then visit http://wishlistfoundation.fancorps.com
hahahahaha
the vic ~ 8.2.07
eV at The Ryman ~ 6.18.09
st. louis ~ 5.4.10
If we all did a little, together we could make a BIG difference....wanna help us?
Then visit http://wishlistfoundation.fancorps.com
Your ignorance is bright and clear.
Sociology and Psychology are based on scientific determinism. All science is based on determinism and science has done a shitload more for humanity than any fucking religion has. Wake up Soulsinging.
It was an example of a conflict of perceptions. Meanwhile, reality is, as Angelica might say, "in complete harmony with it's self". Perception is not reality, perceptions are in conflict, and reality cannot exist in conflict it has to be orderly.
if someone practices a religion in a devoted, kind, and peaceful way, i'd like to know what's wrong with that. they may not be right. but so fucking what? they believe in something that makes them feel better about the world and themselves, and they believe in something that gives them purpose. radicals and fundementalists? that's a different story...they're about as bad as the people who call others 'fuckers' for believing in a god...but just a stable, normal, and considerate person who happens to put stock in a religious faith? oh boy, what a fucker!
Does it inspire?
Leaning out to catch the sun's rays...
A lesson to be applied.
Best night of my life. . .
Noblesville, IN 06-22-03.
myspace.com/justonemorebottle
Can I prove it? No, you just have to have faith.
I bless you all.
PJ albums, at the moment!! -
1,Vs 2,Vitalogy 3,No Code 4,Yield 5,Ten 6,Backspacer, 7Pearl Jam 8,Binaural 9,Riot Act.
religion gave us science... the search for our place in the universe started with religion and evolved into science. determinism, as i understand it, is that humans have no independence and cannot think on their own. we are slaves to electrons and have no unique traits aside form different stimuli. sociology talks nothing about this, only noting group behavioral trends. no sociology i've ever read has said it can look at an individual's group and tell you exactly how that individual will behave. no psychology i have ever read has claimed that based on its research it can tell you exactly what person x will do in y situation. you claim determinism can do this. that all we lack is the number crunching capabilities right now. and i think you're blowing smoke. that is why psych and sociology are called soft sciences, and regarded differently from neurology. and im saying determinism is more like psychology than neurology. determinism cannot provide the predictive accuracy of physics theories of gravity. and thus your pet faith is little better off than any other lens of seeing the world.
tell me right now... i'm a white male, 25, living in chicago. what will i eat for dinner? i can't make the choice right? it's science that is making the choice. if i get hit by a car tomorrow, how will it affect my career? you don't know, do you?
but i can tell you exactly what will happen to an apple that falls off a tree.
and my point was determinism does nothing to resolve this. becos doctor a and doctor b will still be arguing about whose perception of the data is correct and whether you should be classified as a retard or a genius.
I tend to agree with Ahnimus that everything is determined down to minute details in both sociology and psychology, whether it's proven or not. And still, that remains opinion.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
i sort of do. i cannot see what difference it makes. since it is flat out impossible to have 2 persons with the same stimuli at all times from birth to death, it doesn't matter what you call it. everyone is still acting differently and on their own desires. whether you think those desires are a result of free will or a lifetime of stimuli doesn't matter... the result is going to be the same, namely, this guy acting differently from that and so on down the line.
In any determined system, the *I* of us, which is the personal individual ego, plays a BIG role. It plays our one and only crucial role in determining the quality of our personal experience. That's HUGE for me. It was also huge when I was not aware of my own power and unconsciously made many self-undermining poor choices and created a poor personal experience. *I* was held accountable for my choices by life, itself, even though *I* felt the consequences were totally random and had nothing to do with my "little ole powerless self". The *I* of us decides on our priorities, and how to use or abuse our potential energy.
The psychological view of the ego or the *I* of any one of us is that it is the interface of who we are as our base energy interacts in the world. The ego is not who we are. It's a useful veil that is connected to our base undifferentiated human potential and energy that is available to all humans. It is the *I* itself that differentiates this human energy into uniqueness. The *I* holds our personality, and our life scripts that we learned in order to meet our needs, and that we often unerringly follow along. This veil makes us individual and gives us our sense of "me" or "you".
We can always choose to rise above our personalities, our scripts, and our egos, and uncover who we are. Our free choice is the key to unlocking who we really are.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
is that free choice being made without any outside influence and without bias? if not, then tis hardly free choice is it?
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
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