Quebec is NOT a Nation

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  • Posts: 2,247
    not4u wrote:
    The US wants alberta, they planted seeds thier and they'll eventually get it, but first alberta is trying to get the rest of canada. Canada right now i feel is under a political invasion, but im a cynical jerk.

    The US will never get Alberta.....NEVER! Im not sure what seeds you are talking about? I know the Amercian military has been coming to First Nations reservations over the last 10 or so years recruiting people for their military and using the Jay Treaty as an excuse to do so....is this what you mean?
    >>>>
    >
    ...a lover and a fighter.
    "I'm at least half a bum" Rocky Balboa

    http://www.videosift.com/video/Obamas-Message-To-American-Indians

    Edmonton, AB. September 5th, 2005
    Vancouver, BC. April 3rd, 2008
    Calgary,AB. August 8th, 2009
  • Posts: 6,691
    surferdude wrote:
    I don't have a problem with Quebec becoming it's own nation or country. being a nation would have almost no impact on how Canada goes about it business. Quebec becoming it's own country would be good for Canada, in that it would allow us to divert resources away from Quebec to address other issues. Not sure how Quebec would fare as a country, but I would wish them "Bon chance".

    Special treatment for provinces will still occur. We'll still have Employment Insurance set up specifially to maximize use in the maritimes. Or turning a blind eye to oil exploration pollution for Alberta. We'd just have one less have not province to send money to, and another new country to visit. It's not like Quebec would be moving and we wouldn't get to see them when we wanted.

    Nothing makes my blood boil like the assumption that everyone in the maritimes just lives off the Upper Canadian teat!! :mad: There were many people who didn't even want PEI to join Confederation as we ACTUALLY had money before we joined. Not everyone lives off of the dole and in fact most people I know have never been on fucking EI!! . Sure there are asswipes that abuse it here but I am pretty sure there are asswipes that abuse it ALL over Canada not just here. Way to stereotype :rolleyes:!!
  • Posts: 135
    i'm from montreal.. not a nationalist (quebecer or canadian).. i'm somewhat mixed on the issue of separation. personally, i would be more than willing to support independance, provided it led to a society that i feel would be beneficial to the greatest number of people. i feel that the views of the average canadian are much different than mine, and those of the average quebecer... i'm also somewhat disillusioned by harper/alberta, and the general culture of conservatism out west.. not that i was crazy about the liberals either, however.

    just my two cents.
  • Posts: 2,057
    small town beck wrote:
    Nothing makes my blood boil like the assumption that everyone in the maritimes just lives off the Upper Canadian teat!! :mad: There were many people who didn't even want PEI to join Confederation as we ACTUALLY had money before we joined. Not everyone lives off of the dole and in fact most people I know have never been on fucking EI!! . Sure there are asswipes that abuse it here but I am pretty sure there are asswipes that abuse it ALL over Canada not just here. Way to stereotype :rolleyes:!!
    I said absolutely nothing about the people of the martitimes. I refered to a specific program that was changed purely for political vote garnering reasons. The changes weren't made for reasons of fairness. That is the facts, I can't deny the facts.

    The point I was making is that people who complain about some special treatment that Quebec gets should take a look at their own province. There is a lot of unfair and special treatment legislation that all the provinces have and sometimes abuse. With the maritimes it's the EI rules, with New Foundland it possibly could be the change in natural resource revenue sharing, with BC it could be the current olympic money they are getting.
    “One good thing about music,
    when it hits you, you feel to pain.
    So brutalize me with music.”
    ~ Bob Marley
  • Posts: 18,341
    hippiemom wrote:
    Oh ... I always assumed it was true, since I am of French descent and I certainly don't like to work! :D


    Hippiemom...... the French just like to have the right balance! :) As Blanche said, they value THEIR time (and their lunchtime)! :D:D
  • Posts: 2,247
    surferdude wrote:

    The point I was making is that people who complain about some special treatment that Quebec gets should take a look at their own province. There is a lot of unfair and special treatment legislation that all the provinces have and sometimes abuse. With the maritimes it's the EI rules, with New Foundland it possibly could be the change in natural resource revenue sharing, with BC it could be the current olympic money they are getting.
    thats like comparing oranges and apples and your examples really have nothing to do with Quebec asking to be treated as a Nation.
    A) There is not much for resources in Newfoundland so what the hell are they going to share...although there is an increase in resource exploration in Newfoundland ..but this could be said for all provinces.
    B) WIth respect to the EI rules it has do with A.
    C) BC deserves any and all the Olympic money they are getting because.....ummmmm they are hosting the Olympics and I am all for a secure games so making sure that happens is important.

    Comparing the 'special treatment' that Quebec is asking for to your examples is not even the same thing. Respect your opinion nonetheless.
    >>>>
    >
    ...a lover and a fighter.
    "I'm at least half a bum" Rocky Balboa

    http://www.videosift.com/video/Obamas-Message-To-American-Indians

    Edmonton, AB. September 5th, 2005
    Vancouver, BC. April 3rd, 2008
    Calgary,AB. August 8th, 2009
  • Posts: 4,901
    So, what do we think of Harper's declaration? I actually back the move, because a) it was basically a tactic to counter an impending Bloc motion, and I enjoyed watching Duceppe sputter, b) its purely symbolic, no real power changes are involved, and c) I think it shows an appropriate level of respect for Quebec's very real differences.
  • Posts: 4,901
    not4u wrote:
    The US wants alberta, they planted seeds thier and they'll eventually get it, but first alberta is trying to get the rest of canada. Canada right now i feel is under a political invasion, but im a cynical jerk.

    Well, the first step is admitting you've got a problem.
    ;)
  • Posts: 2,247
    reborncareerist wrote:
    So, what do we think of Harper's declaration? I actually back the move, because a) it was basically a tactic to counter an impending Bloc motion, and I enjoyed watching Duceppe sputter, b) its purely symbolic, no real power changes are involved, and c) I think it shows an appropriate level of respect for Quebec's very real differences.

    I somewhat agree. It was a blatant political ass-kissing move ala Dubya, sure it's symbolic but I just HATE giving Quebec anything else, I wouldnt give Duceppe the sweat off of my balls if he was dying of thirst in the desert....perhaps I said too much.
    >>>>
    >
    ...a lover and a fighter.
    "I'm at least half a bum" Rocky Balboa

    http://www.videosift.com/video/Obamas-Message-To-American-Indians

    Edmonton, AB. September 5th, 2005
    Vancouver, BC. April 3rd, 2008
    Calgary,AB. August 8th, 2009
  • Posts: 4,901
    Cree Nations wrote:
    I somewhat agree. It was a blatant political ass-kissing move ala Dubya, sure it's symbolic but I just HATE giving Quebec anything else, I wouldnt give Duceppe the sweat off of my balls if he was dying of thirst in the desert....perhaps I said too much.

    Ha! Can't say I disagree with you about Duceppe ... I don't think its a Dubya-esque move at all, though. If Quebec politicians needs some symbolic affirmation that they are indeed special, I say give it to them. They'll work harder against the separatists now. I'd agree with you if this thing had the potential for constitutional change, but at this point it does not.
  • Posts: 2,247
    reborncareerist wrote:
    Ha! Can't say I disagree with you about Duceppe ... I don't think its a Dubya-esque move at all, though. If Quebec politicians needs some symbolic affirmation that they are indeed special, I say give it to them. They'll work harder against the separatists now. I'd agree with you if this thing had the potential for constitutional change, but at this point it does not.

    Quebec politicinas will always need some reaffirmation that they are special and the more the govt bends for them, the more they will continue to do this. Hell, they could build a snowman in Quebec and say that it deserves different treatment then say a snowman in the Peg. "Our snowman has rights god damnit!"
    >>>>
    >
    ...a lover and a fighter.
    "I'm at least half a bum" Rocky Balboa

    http://www.videosift.com/video/Obamas-Message-To-American-Indians

    Edmonton, AB. September 5th, 2005
    Vancouver, BC. April 3rd, 2008
    Calgary,AB. August 8th, 2009
  • Posts: 4,901
    Cree Nations wrote:
    Quebec politicinas will always need some reaffirmation that they are special and the more the govt bends for them, the more they will continue to do this. Hell, they could build a snowman in Quebec and say that it deserves different treatment then say a snowman in the Peg. "Our snowman has rights god damnit!"

    Point ... One can ask when it all should stop.
  • Posts: 2,057
    Face it Quebec is different than the rest of Canada. Maybe historically it wasn't but since the rise of the seperatist/sovereignty movement and Trudea coming to power Quebec has become different. I have no problem offically acknowledging that difference. Especially since it's symbolic. Though I think we all know that over time it will move from symbolic to legislated and probably to seperation. Like I said, I look around the world and I don't fear this change for either Quebec or Canada.
    “One good thing about music,
    when it hits you, you feel to pain.
    So brutalize me with music.”
    ~ Bob Marley
  • Posts: 2,247
    reborncareerist wrote:
    Point ... One can ask when it all should stop.

    When the Government grows some balls and decides to say no, moreover, the government should take away half of the seats that Quebec currently holds in the house to lessen their power.....one could say though, that the west is outgrowing Quebec and that we will eventually hold more seats then them anyway.
    Im all for stripping Quebec of their rights....sure they're going to be pissed but what are they going to do? Needless to say, Im a bit radical when it comes to Quebec.
    >>>>
    >
    ...a lover and a fighter.
    "I'm at least half a bum" Rocky Balboa

    http://www.videosift.com/video/Obamas-Message-To-American-Indians

    Edmonton, AB. September 5th, 2005
    Vancouver, BC. April 3rd, 2008
    Calgary,AB. August 8th, 2009
  • Posts: 2,057
    Cree Nations wrote:
    When the Government grows some balls and decides to say no, moreover, the government should take away half of the seats that Quebec currently holds in the house to lessen their power.....one could say though, that the west is outgrowing Quebec and that we will eventually hold more seats then them anyway.
    Im all for stripping Quebec of their rights....sure they're going to be pissed but what are they going to do? Needless to say, Im a bit radical when it comes to Quebec.
    We have a constitution that mandates that Quebec has one third of the seats regardless of their population. Quebec and the maritimes are currently over represented in government based on their population. BC and Alberta are under represented, that's part of BC and Alberta's dissatisfaction with the federal government. They will never have the say at the political table that they should.
    “One good thing about music,
    when it hits you, you feel to pain.
    So brutalize me with music.”
    ~ Bob Marley
  • Posts: 4,901
    surferdude wrote:
    We have a constitution that mandates that Quebec has one third of the seats regardless of their population. Quebec and the maritimes are currently over represented in government based on their population. BC and Alberta are under represented, that's part of BC and Alberta's dissatisfaction with the federal government. They will never have the say at the political table that they should.

    I know changing the constitution is no picnic, but this might have to be fixed. If the population of Alberta and BC eventually far outstrips that of Quebec, it makes no sense that the latter should have more seats. In fact, it is antithetical to democracy.
  • Posts: 2,247
    surferdude wrote:
    We have a constitution that mandates that Quebec has one third of the seats regardless of their population. Quebec and the maritimes are currently over represented in government based on their population. BC and Alberta are under represented, that's part of BC and Alberta's dissatisfaction with the federal government. They will never have the say at the political table that they should.

    well yes thats part of it BUT the constitution has (1981) been changed and can be changed again, I figure if the conservative govt can bring up old issues like gay marriage then we can bring up Quebecs rights.
    :)
    >>>>
    >
    ...a lover and a fighter.
    "I'm at least half a bum" Rocky Balboa

    http://www.videosift.com/video/Obamas-Message-To-American-Indians

    Edmonton, AB. September 5th, 2005
    Vancouver, BC. April 3rd, 2008
    Calgary,AB. August 8th, 2009
  • Posts: 142
    Why the hell would Harper want to rock this boat? Politics obviously, however the ripple effects of this decision are unknown to everyone.
    Harper is showing himself to be a very one dimentional figure, tax and spending cuts. Over the last few months he has shown to be a lightweight in just about every other department. Thank goodness he just has a minorty, but having him represent the country internationally makes me worry.
    This sidewalk is for regular walking, not for fancy walking!
  • Posts: 2,057
    reborncareerist wrote:
    I know changing the constitution is no picnic, but this might have to be fixed. If the population of Alberta and BC eventually far outstrips that of Quebec, it makes no sense that the latter should have more seats. In fact, it is antithetical to democracy.
    We aren't and never were a democracy. We have some democratic processes, but Canada does not believe in the one person one vote thing at all. A maritime vote is worth much more than a BC vote. It made sense when Canada started but makes no sense now.
    “One good thing about music,
    when it hits you, you feel to pain.
    So brutalize me with music.”
    ~ Bob Marley
  • Posts: 2,057
    qwerty wrote:
    but having him represent the country internationally makes me worry.
    canada stopped being a player internationally when we gutted our military and were unable to walk the talk. I agree with Harper's policy regarding China but he just went about it all wrong. Sometimes he has good ideas but just horrible plans to execute them.
    “One good thing about music,
    when it hits you, you feel to pain.
    So brutalize me with music.”
    ~ Bob Marley

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