I decide not to post here in the beginning but now that everyone have thrown a rock, i'll throw mine. First it's hilarious to see that a thread with the name "quebec is not a nation" is started by a man named "Cree nations"!?!?!
For the rest it's all about your personal opinion, Quebecers form a nation, from the french colonialist in the beginning, to everything that is mixed up in today's Quebec, and on monday or tuesday (for the first time in history) the canadian parliament will officially recognize the Quebec nation, and it's just GREAT! Too bad Canadians don't share that happiness and continue to deny that historical and actually legal fact. Next step is to write it in the constitution and allow the rights that goes to nations (not much more than what Quebec govt. currently have). John A. Macdonald was the first to acknowledge that reality, but it suddenly disappeared inTrudeau's era, now it's time to bring back reality into Canadians home.
I like SURFERDUDE opinions on the subject, he pretty much think the way i'd like Canadians to think about separation or the nation question. More people thinking like him would make a damn great unified country, but just read the anglos editorial all over the country, and you'll see how it is viceral for Canadians to sit their power on Quebecers, too bad but on this time, Quebecers win (rare occurance). It's not about giving "special treatment", it's about giving a chance to a nation to govern itself (same should/will happen to first nations in years to come).
Anyway, i think it should be an happy day for everyone. If something change for Canada, it will be that when the Quebec environmental minister goes into a conference in Nairobi, he'll be able to speak up and not being shut up by the federal govt., and on that occasion, it would have been fucking great for Canadians... every canadians, of every nations... hehe. Enjoy the vote, i'll celebrate the recognition of my nation, finally, so i'll have a beer in your honor, ROC .
Good post, thank you for responding..salut and if your are going to have a beer in my honour...please make it a pilsner....;)
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>
...a lover and a fighter.
"I'm at least half a bum" Rocky Balboa
Oh, not sure about some of the stats you guys are bringing here, but when saying 50% this and that, you're talking about the separation option, i don't know any polls numbers inside Quebec saying how many Quebecers think that Quebec form a nation (federalist AND sovereignist), but i guess it's pretty much around 100%, and that's the only thing that really matters. Plus to those saying separation failed twice, you're once again short of bringing the whole argument, don't forget that the Constitution including Quebec's signature failed twice, even three times including the original "agreement". So nothing is settled in 2006.
Anyway, as someone pointed out, Quebecers did not wait till Canada recognize them, we have the National Capital, the National holiday, the National Parliament, etc., and the Quebec govt. already pass a vote that recognize Quebec as a nation (many years ago).
Last thing, Quebec don't have one third (33%) of Canada's seat in the house of common, Quebec have 75 seats out of 308 which is around 25%.
Around 24% of the population and 25% of the seats in the house of commons, i see nothing unfair, not just, special treatment or whatever else in these numbers, maybe i'm wrong.
"L'homme est né libre, et partout il est dans les fers"
-Jean-Jacques Rousseau
Good post, thank you for responding..salut and if your are going to have a beer in my honour...please make it a pilsner....;)
So, how/why does the Crees form nations, and Quebec is not? I still fail to see the logic here, sorry... btw, i'll have a beer in your honor (and everyone) for sure, probably won't be a pilsner, probably something like a Quebec's own brew, something like a Boréale .
"L'homme est né libre, et partout il est dans les fers"
-Jean-Jacques Rousseau
thankyougrandma...first of all, congratulations on getting your symbolic recognition of quebec as a nation. i also agree with your post about representation for quebec.
i guess i take a very simple view of things sometimes and i see that all over this country we have communities, people, places, and cultures that are very different. we are the second largest in the world, so it is to be expected. the native communities in every province, the gaelic communities here in the east, the ukranian coomunities in the prairies, the asian communities in the west, the inuit communities to the north, the french communities here in the maritimes, and others that are scattered all over the country. i recognize that we all have our differences both historically and culturally. it bothers me that the french speaking communities (specifically the acadian communities here in the maritimes, and the french throughout quebec) are unable to travel throughout their own country without language barrier. it bothers me when people speak negatively about quebec, and i do hear it here. i've heard it when i spent time in ontario and when i lived in the west.
there are a lot of people on all coasts that are very out of touch with the wants and needs of their fellow canadian brothers and sisters that live so far away from them. there are a lot of people in the centre who have no clue as well. there a lot of people like a certain poster here who have prejudices against certain areas and drastically skewed views of the martitimes and other places that are false. there are people here that have opinions about the west that are prejudiced and completely false. there are people who have negative opinions of cultures that are completely wrong and unfounded.
i guess what i'm trying to say is that i hope that one day we can all get to the point where we recognize and embrace our differences as being special, but also stand together as brothers and sisters in canada as canadians, with less "me" and more "we". i love our country as it is, including every province and all of the people.
i've been to all the provinces and spent time in them all but SASK., MAN., NFLD. (i'm ashamed :()...and the north...and i've met a lot of good people who share common canadian ideals. i've met a lot of others who are intolerant of differences, some from the west who couldn't point out PEI on a map, some from the east who couldn't point out VAN island on a map, some who have negative things to say about specific cultures and people. i just hope that they are all enlightened one day to the beauty and spirit of all the good people and good things, and take the steps necessary to achieve the realization that essentially we are all one.
The way I see it, all of the provinces and territories were once separate colonies. We united for mutual strength. I'm pretty sure Quebec was one of the original British colonies. Quebec having 25% of the vote seems kind of high.
How does that work anyway?
When all the provinces and territories are self-governing, what good is the federal government?
What does it mean to be self-governing?
Is a Nation within Canada entitled to Federal Revenue?
Are they Federally Taxed?
What is the significance of all of this?
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
just to bring the argument down to frivility....
i was in montreal last year and wherever i turned there were hot girls/women....
quebec may/may not be a nation but montreal is certainly full of hot girls. lol
I think almost every woman I have met from Quebec has been absolutely stunning. I believe it has something to do with the Maple Syrup but am yet to nail this down as a concrete reason.....perhaps its the pinot noir?
>>>>
>
...a lover and a fighter.
"I'm at least half a bum" Rocky Balboa
Ok guys, I'm fucking pissed!
If I have to hear one more goddamn "Quebec french people blah blah blah" I'm gonna puke!
I live in Montreal.
I have a cottage in the Laurentiens.
My girlfriends parents live in the Eastern Townships.
And I am ENGLISH.
I have met all kinds of "different" Quebecers, and I have never met ONE Quebecer who ignored me or didn't like me because of my language. It just doesn't happen. Maybe in the smallest villages up north like St Jean, but not in the majority of Quebec.
My girlfriend's parents are separatists, but I don't give a shit, and neither do they that I'm Anglophone.
Let me set one thing straight, they do NOT want to seperate because they hate English! They just don't want to lose their culture, that's all. And you know what, I don't blame them. American industry swooped into Quebec and took alot of jobs and really changed society.
My girlfriends father used to work for CBC in the 70's and he doesn't speak very good english, and he was told that at work he was to converse with other employees, who were Francophone, in English! That's fucking ridiculous!
So I can understand why their pissed.
I don't want to seperate. I love Canada and I especially love the beauitful province of Quebec.
If you want to diss Quebec, come to Montreal and witness the multi cultural life style. It's fucking beautiful.
You won't feel the same way about Quebec.
Ok guys, I'm fucking pissed!
If I have to hear one more goddamn "Quebec french people blah blah blah" I'm gonna puke!
I live in Montreal.
I have a cottage in the Laurentiens.
My girlfriends parents live in the Eastern Townships.
And I am ENGLISH.
I have met all kinds of "different" Quebecers, and I have never met ONE Quebecer who ignored me or didn't like me because of my language. It just doesn't happen. Maybe in the smallest villages up north like St Jean, but not in the majority of Quebec.
My girlfriend's parents are separatists, but I don't give a shit, and neither do they that I'm Anglophone.
Let me set one thing straight, they do NOT want to seperate because they hate English! They just don't want to lose their culture, that's all. And you know what, I don't blame them. American industry swooped into Quebec and took alot of jobs and really changed society.
My girlfriends father used to work for CBC in the 70's and he doesn't speak very good english, and he was told that at work he was to converse with other employees, who were Francophone, in English! That's fucking ridiculous!
So I can understand why their pissed.
I don't want to seperate. I love Canada and I especially love the beauitful province of Quebec.
If you want to diss Quebec, come to Montreal and witness the multi cultural life style. It's fucking beautiful.
You won't feel the same way about Quebec.
Klein
I certainly dont hate Quebec or Quebecers in general. For me personally, my issues with Quebec stem from the obvious dichotemy that there is between Quebec and First Nations. I started this thread to see what other opinions were out there and was hoping to get more responses from Quebecers. Thanks for responding and I did not have an intention of putting forth a hate on for Quebecers when I started this thread.
>>>>
>
...a lover and a fighter.
"I'm at least half a bum" Rocky Balboa
So culture is the culprit? The only reason Quebec wants seperation and the reason the First Nations maintain their separtism?
Wow, I guess the rest of us are just cultureless, useless fucks, eh?
Or maybe our culture sucks by comparison?
I'll tell you one thing, the rest of culture in Canada isn't exclusive and therefore in my mind it's better.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
So culture is the culprit? The only reason Quebec wants seperation and the reason the First Nations maintain their separtism?
Wow, I guess the rest of us are just cultureless, useless fucks, eh?
Or maybe our culture sucks by comparison?
I'll tell you one thing, the rest of culture in Canada isn't exclusive and therefore in my mind it's better.
I did find it a bit odd that some of the first people to complain about Harper's motion were aboriginals. People ALREADY recognized as forming a distinct nation with Canada. What more do they need, in terms of special status? They already have it.
I did find it a bit odd that some of the first people to complain about Harper's motion were aboriginals. People ALREADY recognized as forming a distinct nation with Canada. What more do they need, in terms of special status? They already have it.
Please say 'which' 'aboriginals' you are talking about other than myself and when in this thread did I ask that Aboriginals are asking for 'special status'?
I will answer a bit of your question....what more do they need?
How about clean water
increased access to healthcare
a decreas in child poverty among First Nations communities both on and off reserve.
If your province was invaded by foreign language companies that forced you to speak their language, would you be pissed?
Of course you would. Slowly but surely your culture would be taken over by the "new" language.
Anyhow, it's just my opinion. I have lived through it and am still living with it.
You just kinda get used to the random asshole who makes the entire province look like stupid fucks.
We know how it is.
If your province was invaded by foreign language companies that forced you to speak their language, would you be pissed?
Of course you would. Slowly but surely your culture would be taken over by the "new" language.
Anyhow, it's just my opinion. I have lived through it and am still living with it.
You just kinda get used to the random asshole who makes the entire province look like stupid fucks.
We know how it is.
Klein
Well I lived through it too. And I also lived through the part where english speaking people were treated like shit and basically forced to move. The people are great, the politics are the worse in North America. Any time you have politica being driven by fear of change you bring out the worst inpeople.
“One good thing about music,
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
I agree completely. The politics here are a nightmare. They purposely try and start french/english wars. The best example is the changing of Parc Avenue to Robert Bourassa Avenue.
Those stupid fucks in government were dearly hoping for a language war, but it didn't happen. The people united and said "no" to changing one of the most important streets in Montreal. But what did the politicians do?
They changed the name anyways. They didn't give a crap about what the people wanted, english or french.
If your province was invaded by foreign language companies that forced you to speak their language, would you be pissed?
Of course you would. Slowly but surely your culture would be taken over by the "new" language.
Anyhow, it's just my opinion. I have lived through it and am still living with it.
You just kinda get used to the random asshole who makes the entire province look like stupid fucks.
We know how it is.
Klein
Hi Klein, would be nice if you'd be around on this board for a while ...
"L'homme est né libre, et partout il est dans les fers"
-Jean-Jacques Rousseau
Yeah I'll be here.
And just for the record, I am Anglophone. My mother is from England and my Father is from Germany.
I don't want anyone to get the wrong impression as to where my views come from. My views come solely from opening my eyes and listening. So I am not biased towards anything, just realistic.
The same thing is happening is Spain with the Catalans. How are you guys coping?
If your province was invaded by foreign language companies that forced you to speak their language, would you be pissed?
Of course you would. Slowly but surely your culture would be taken over by the "new" language.
Anyhow, it's just my opinion. I have lived through it and am still living with it.
You just kinda get used to the random asshole who makes the entire province look like stupid fucks.
We know how it is.
Klein
good post klein.
...your first name isn't ralph is it?...:D just checking...i know it's not, he would not be able to put himself in someone else's shoes, as you alluded to in your opening.
The way I see it, all of the provinces and territories were once separate colonies. We united for mutual strength. I'm pretty sure Quebec was one of the original British colonies. Quebec having 25% of the vote seems kind of high.
Where did you get your history? There's no question marks possible, go read some books and come back, Canada's history is all pretty clear.
I sorted out the numbers, can't you read? 24% of the populations, getting 25% of the seats, what's the problem with that? It will change of course in the future with the west booming, but right now, and in the past, there's nothing unfair, but i'm losing time writting these things to you.
How does that work anyway?When all the provinces and territories are self-governing, what good is the federal government?
It will soon comes down to this, first nations are already looking for self-governance, territories will look for more autonomy (natural ressources revenues). I've always said that the federal govt. in Canada is dysfunctional, it must be de-centralized. But don't get all emotional, the federal govt. will always have it's utility, it won't disappear.
hmmmmm, pretty vague question, could give you a pretty vague answer, it means that a said nation with an establish govt. can govern for their people, Canada is self-governing if you compare to the USA (hehehaha). Now the problem seem to be in the recognition of those nations, and the establishment of those governing entity (for the first nations in particular, quebec have a govt.).
...your first name isn't ralph is it?...:D just checking...i know it's not, he would not be able to put himself in someone else's shoes, as you alluded to in your opening.
Yeah I'll be here.
And just for the record, I am Anglophone. My mother is from England and my Father is from Germany.
I don't want anyone to get the wrong impression as to where my views come from. My views come solely from opening my eyes and listening. So I am not biased towards anything, just realistic.
The same thing is happening is Spain with the Catalans. How are you guys coping?
Klein
I guess you have a good feeling of the Quebec's anglos community, so i'd be curious to know what is the feeling about this nation question in the community?
Around me (mostly french entourage) peoples think it's just like pointing an orange and say "this is an orange", but people are mostly stunned by the reaction it gets all around Canada. I mean a minister did quit over this resolution, to me it's a bit overreacting, but as i said on many occasions, when it comes down to Quebec, it gets more drama than it should.
"L'homme est né libre, et partout il est dans les fers"
-Jean-Jacques Rousseau
You can call it what you want, nation, whatever. What it really comes down to is how will the province be governed differently. If things don't change, then I don't give a shit. If things change to a more PeQuist attitude, then I would not be happy. The people in charge of the Parti Quebecois are far too fanatical for my liking. I just odn't understand why we can't all live happily ever after the way it is.
What really aggravates me in Quebec is the "Language Police". For those of you who are not aware of them, let me enlighten you. They work for the Quebec govt and drive around looking for any sign in a store window that is not French. And then, by law, the owner of the establishment must change his sign so that there is a french sign, and if he wants English on the sign, it has to be 50% of the size of the french words. It's a fucking joke! Why not just make it mandatory to have bilingual signs? Same size, same font, same color, who gives a shit!
I love French people and I love English people.. except if you're from Toronto, but that's another story
Just a little fun ribbing guys.
You can call it what you want, nation, whatever. What it really comes down to is how will the province be governed differently. If things don't change, then I don't give a shit. If things change to a more PeQuist attitude, then I would not be happy. The people in charge of the Parti Quebecois are far too fanatical for my liking. I just odn't understand why we can't all live happily ever after the way it is.
What really aggravates me in Quebec is the "Language Police". For those of you who are not aware of them, let me enlighten you. They work for the Quebec govt and drive around looking for any sign in a store window that is not French. And then, by law, the owner of the establishment must change his sign so that there is a french sign, and if he wants English on the sign, it has to be 50% of the size of the french words. It's a fucking joke! Why not just make it mandatory to have bilingual signs? Same size, same font, same color, who gives a shit!
I love French people and I love English people.. except if you're from Toronto, but that's another story
Just a little fun ribbing guys.
Well, i don't think there will be a more pequiste way of governing unless the PQ gets elected, the only thing i see that could change with this recognition could be the international credibility or voice. I'm not a huge fan of the PQ, but i'm a separatist, for sure, a mild one if i can say, but sure would vote yes if there ever is another referendum, that being said, if someone re-open the constitution and makes Quebec sign it, i'll also vote yes to this referendum.
Language police do not roam around looking for english signs, they work base on complaints. I agree (and said on this board before) that the language signs law should be abolished, but the rest of the bill 101 talking about the right to work in french (language in work spaces) and sending kids to french school is still good in my opinion.
"L'homme est né libre, et partout il est dans les fers"
-Jean-Jacques Rousseau
Hey ... Do I ever use labels when referring to you personally? Don't paint me with any brush, please. I don't have "republican friends". I do you the same courtesy. And I've asked you before, too ... You hate it when people label you, yes?
Anyhow, I've said in previous posts that Aboriginal health and welfare needs more attention in this country. If they ever put that directly to a vote, I'd vote for it. What I was referring to was the knee-jerk reaction that some aboriginal leaders had to this proposal ... It wasn't "improve our health care". It was more along the lines of "Aren't we special too?".
I certainly dont hate Quebec or Quebecers in general. For me personally, my issues with Quebec stem from the obvious dichotemy that there is between Quebec and First Nations. I started this thread to see what other opinions were out there and was hoping to get more responses from Quebecers. Thanks for responding and I did not have an intention of putting forth a hate on for Quebecers when I started this thread.
The irony is, when it's all said and done, what Quebec is doing right now will sooner or later help the first nations cause, just my two cents...
"L'homme est né libre, et partout il est dans les fers"
-Jean-Jacques Rousseau
i'm catching up on the internet views of the Quebec nation recognition, there's a majority of article/editorial against the Quebec Nation recognition, but here's one that i liked :
QUEBEC NATION
Wednesday, November 29, 2006
I blame Howard Dean. Was Creeping Deanism that sent Quebec over the edge.
Canada has identity issues. It wants to be like America. Then it wants to be not like America. And sometimes it wants to be anti-American.
At the beginning of the invasion of Iraq, under the leadership of Jean Chrétien, Canada stood up against American influence, alone in the Anglosphere to do so. But it left a feeling of being cold and alone, amplified by the bitter wind on the Winnipeg plains and a hockey strike sent - perhaps by God - to punish them or as many considered, sent for that same purpose by the American hockey commissioner.
But there is some awful thing gnawing at the heart of English-speaking Canadians that makes them want and need to be something like Americans. Distance causes anxiety. We are bound together somehow like the goddess with two faces. So slouching toward Bush, after Chrétien, Canadians next brought in Stephen Harper, a conservative from the western provinces, which are supposed to be something like Texas only cold as Ned. Harper is an evangelical church attendee as well. That brought a satisfying alignment for awhile and after stating boldly that Canada would defend the Northwest Passage against encroachment by American submarines – which brought great laughs on the excellent Canadian comedy hours – Canada rightly sent soldiers to fight the Taliban in Afghanistan.
Quebec however, has none of these identity issues. As far as I can see, Québécois have never wanted to be like Americans, even though most French-speaking Québécois probably share blood with New Englanders like myself from the days of the industrial economy when Catholic French and Irish fought and married together. But they do not want to be like us and they do not want to be like Anglo-Canadians either. They have been going to the same stone churches since 1607 more or less without interruption or upheaval. They are not like anyone else on this continent or on any other continent. They are like themselves.
But big problems arose just recently. In the last few weeks Canada’s Liberals woke up again. The tide had turned again in American politics. Shouldn’t they turn as well? Strange as it seems, the Liberals, putting forth a Harvard professor for leader who has lived the last 30 years in the United States, then thought it would be a great idea to invite Howard Dean to speak to their national convention.
Howard Dean? There are some things that the French just cannot understand about the English-speaking Canadians. This is one of those things and they might share it with the rest of us. Why in the world would Canada invite a foreigner to speak at their Liberal convention? And why Howard Dean? Here in the United States, new Democrats elected in November have been calling for his removal from his position as Chairman of the Democratic National Committee.
What is interesting about this is that when Howard Dean was Governor of Vermont, Vermont had a very practical and positive working relationship with Quebec, its next-door neighbor. Dr. Dean even did much to encourage regional relationships over federalism. But I cannot imagine in a million years the Bloc Québécois inviting him to their convention.
It was more of the same. In the last election there was some controversy when Bill Clinton came to speak – came to campaign – for liberal English-speaking politicians.
Bloc Québécois leader Gilles Duceppe proposed that Parliament declare Quebec a nation. And in a preemptive strike as ill conceived as his current Texas counterpart's recent tactics in the Middle East, Prime Minister Harper declared, "Quebec is a nation. But it will never be an independent nation."
Commentators made the point that there are no legal or Parliamentary implications to Harpers’ statement. But the implications are myriad and go to the core of identity on our North American continent.
The Québécois movement started not long ago with contention boiling over at a hockey game between French and English speaking fans in Montreal. But Quebec is not a "new" nation like something drawn on the map by Winston Churchill between cocktails at the end of World War II (or by vegans "reinventing themselves" in the Pacific Northwest).
Quite the contrary. Quebec has an old ancient Acadian soul which precedes English presence everywhere on this continent outside of New England and Virginia, and it is something you sense right away when you visit there. Quebec takes modernism in stride; it takes all of the political trends, fashions and currencies in stride. It has something to return to when the trends pass. Quebec has an old soul, while the rest of Canada has a new soul; or a nervous soul; or a neurotic soul; or no soul.
Quebec has always been here and will always be here. Quebec is like Ukraine, older than Russia, way older that communism, political nihilism, capitalism and consumerism; still there when the rave passes and it awakens again. Quebec is like Ireland, once, future and always, watching Great Britain rise to the world around it and fall again. Quebec is like the Old Dominion, acquired and tamed and mastered by the New Man of the North, as the great historian W.J. Cash put it more or less, but a spirit bound to the land like a river.
What if Cromwell had declared Ireland to be a nation but never to be free as Harper did Quebec? What if Lincoln had declared the South to be divisible and autonomous?
Quebec is and always has been a nation. The question is now, what is Canada?
Yeah, I was exaggerating with the Language police... but it's still a joke. And the whole issue of mandatory french school is frustrating. I like to believe that I live in a free country, and then to have someone tell me I can't send my kid to an English School would definitely piss me off.
There is a HUGE difference between wanting to keep your culture and being so INSECURE about you culture that it forces you to the extremes. I don't mean to brag, but if everyone thought like I do, we would all live peacefully.
There is a HUGE difference between wanting to keep your culture and being so INSECURE about you culture that it forces you to the extremes. I don't mean to brag, but if everyone thought like I do, we would all live peacefully.
Comments
Good post, thank you for responding..salut and if your are going to have a beer in my honour...please make it a pilsner....;)
>
...a lover and a fighter.
"I'm at least half a bum" Rocky Balboa
http://www.videosift.com/video/Obamas-Message-To-American-Indians
Edmonton, AB. September 5th, 2005
Vancouver, BC. April 3rd, 2008
Calgary,AB. August 8th, 2009
http://groups.msn.com/PearlJamNirvana/messages.msnw
Anyway, as someone pointed out, Quebecers did not wait till Canada recognize them, we have the National Capital, the National holiday, the National Parliament, etc., and the Quebec govt. already pass a vote that recognize Quebec as a nation (many years ago).
Last thing, Quebec don't have one third (33%) of Canada's seat in the house of common, Quebec have 75 seats out of 308 which is around 25%.
Quebec population: 7,651,500
Canada population: 32,623,500
Around 24% of the population and 25% of the seats in the house of commons, i see nothing unfair, not just, special treatment or whatever else in these numbers, maybe i'm wrong.
-Jean-Jacques Rousseau
So, how/why does the Crees form nations, and Quebec is not? I still fail to see the logic here, sorry... btw, i'll have a beer in your honor (and everyone) for sure, probably won't be a pilsner, probably something like a Quebec's own brew, something like a Boréale
-Jean-Jacques Rousseau
i guess i take a very simple view of things sometimes and i see that all over this country we have communities, people, places, and cultures that are very different. we are the second largest in the world, so it is to be expected. the native communities in every province, the gaelic communities here in the east, the ukranian coomunities in the prairies, the asian communities in the west, the inuit communities to the north, the french communities here in the maritimes, and others that are scattered all over the country. i recognize that we all have our differences both historically and culturally. it bothers me that the french speaking communities (specifically the acadian communities here in the maritimes, and the french throughout quebec) are unable to travel throughout their own country without language barrier. it bothers me when people speak negatively about quebec, and i do hear it here. i've heard it when i spent time in ontario and when i lived in the west.
there are a lot of people on all coasts that are very out of touch with the wants and needs of their fellow canadian brothers and sisters that live so far away from them. there are a lot of people in the centre who have no clue as well. there a lot of people like a certain poster here who have prejudices against certain areas and drastically skewed views of the martitimes and other places that are false. there are people here that have opinions about the west that are prejudiced and completely false. there are people who have negative opinions of cultures that are completely wrong and unfounded.
i guess what i'm trying to say is that i hope that one day we can all get to the point where we recognize and embrace our differences as being special, but also stand together as brothers and sisters in canada as canadians, with less "me" and more "we". i love our country as it is, including every province and all of the people.
i've been to all the provinces and spent time in them all but SASK., MAN., NFLD. (i'm ashamed :()...and the north...and i've met a lot of good people who share common canadian ideals. i've met a lot of others who are intolerant of differences, some from the west who couldn't point out PEI on a map, some from the east who couldn't point out VAN island on a map, some who have negative things to say about specific cultures and people. i just hope that they are all enlightened one day to the beauty and spirit of all the good people and good things, and take the steps necessary to achieve the realization that essentially we are all one.
The way I see it, all of the provinces and territories were once separate colonies. We united for mutual strength. I'm pretty sure Quebec was one of the original British colonies. Quebec having 25% of the vote seems kind of high.
How does that work anyway?
When all the provinces and territories are self-governing, what good is the federal government?
What does it mean to be self-governing?
Is a Nation within Canada entitled to Federal Revenue?
Are they Federally Taxed?
What is the significance of all of this?
i was in montreal last year and wherever i turned there were hot girls/women....
quebec may/may not be a nation but montreal is certainly full of hot girls. lol
http://www.myspace.com/thelastreel http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=19604327965
>
...a lover and a fighter.
"I'm at least half a bum" Rocky Balboa
http://www.videosift.com/video/Obamas-Message-To-American-Indians
Edmonton, AB. September 5th, 2005
Vancouver, BC. April 3rd, 2008
Calgary,AB. August 8th, 2009
If I have to hear one more goddamn "Quebec french people blah blah blah" I'm gonna puke!
I live in Montreal.
I have a cottage in the Laurentiens.
My girlfriends parents live in the Eastern Townships.
And I am ENGLISH.
I have met all kinds of "different" Quebecers, and I have never met ONE Quebecer who ignored me or didn't like me because of my language. It just doesn't happen. Maybe in the smallest villages up north like St Jean, but not in the majority of Quebec.
My girlfriend's parents are separatists, but I don't give a shit, and neither do they that I'm Anglophone.
Let me set one thing straight, they do NOT want to seperate because they hate English! They just don't want to lose their culture, that's all. And you know what, I don't blame them. American industry swooped into Quebec and took alot of jobs and really changed society.
My girlfriends father used to work for CBC in the 70's and he doesn't speak very good english, and he was told that at work he was to converse with other employees, who were Francophone, in English! That's fucking ridiculous!
So I can understand why their pissed.
I don't want to seperate. I love Canada and I especially love the beauitful province of Quebec.
If you want to diss Quebec, come to Montreal and witness the multi cultural life style. It's fucking beautiful.
You won't feel the same way about Quebec.
Klein
>
...a lover and a fighter.
"I'm at least half a bum" Rocky Balboa
http://www.videosift.com/video/Obamas-Message-To-American-Indians
Edmonton, AB. September 5th, 2005
Vancouver, BC. April 3rd, 2008
Calgary,AB. August 8th, 2009
Wow, I guess the rest of us are just cultureless, useless fucks, eh?
Or maybe our culture sucks by comparison?
I'll tell you one thing, the rest of culture in Canada isn't exclusive and therefore in my mind it's better.
I did find it a bit odd that some of the first people to complain about Harper's motion were aboriginals. People ALREADY recognized as forming a distinct nation with Canada. What more do they need, in terms of special status? They already have it.
Please say 'which' 'aboriginals' you are talking about other than myself and when in this thread did I ask that Aboriginals are asking for 'special status'?
I will answer a bit of your question....what more do they need?
How about clean water
increased access to healthcare
a decreas in child poverty among First Nations communities both on and off reserve.
FINALLY what part of ...did you you not understand. If you and your republican/conservative friends want to start a thread discussing First Nations issues....go for it.
>
...a lover and a fighter.
"I'm at least half a bum" Rocky Balboa
http://www.videosift.com/video/Obamas-Message-To-American-Indians
Edmonton, AB. September 5th, 2005
Vancouver, BC. April 3rd, 2008
Calgary,AB. August 8th, 2009
Of course you would. Slowly but surely your culture would be taken over by the "new" language.
Anyhow, it's just my opinion. I have lived through it and am still living with it.
You just kinda get used to the random asshole who makes the entire province look like stupid fucks.
We know how it is.
Klein
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
Those stupid fucks in government were dearly hoping for a language war, but it didn't happen. The people united and said "no" to changing one of the most important streets in Montreal. But what did the politicians do?
They changed the name anyways. They didn't give a crap about what the people wanted, english or french.
Klein
Hi Klein, would be nice if you'd be around on this board for a while
-Jean-Jacques Rousseau
And just for the record, I am Anglophone. My mother is from England and my Father is from Germany.
I don't want anyone to get the wrong impression as to where my views come from. My views come solely from opening my eyes and listening. So I am not biased towards anything, just realistic.
The same thing is happening is Spain with the Catalans. How are you guys coping?
Klein
good post klein.
...your first name isn't ralph is it?...:D just checking...i know it's not, he would not be able to put himself in someone else's shoes, as you alluded to in your opening.
Politics are always such a touchy subject.
Klein
Not sure, don't remember.
Where did you get your history? There's no question marks possible, go read some books and come back, Canada's history is all pretty clear.
I sorted out the numbers, can't you read? 24% of the populations, getting 25% of the seats, what's the problem with that? It will change of course in the future with the west booming, but right now, and in the past, there's nothing unfair, but i'm losing time writting these things to you.
It will soon comes down to this, first nations are already looking for self-governance, territories will look for more autonomy (natural ressources revenues). I've always said that the federal govt. in Canada is dysfunctional, it must be de-centralized. But don't get all emotional, the federal govt. will always have it's utility, it won't disappear.
hmmmmm, pretty vague question, could give you a pretty vague answer, it means that a said nation with an establish govt. can govern for their people, Canada is self-governing if you compare to the USA (hehehaha). Now the problem seem to be in the recognition of those nations, and the establishment of those governing entity (for the first nations in particular, quebec have a govt.).
If you pay taxes, yes, you should know these things, it's pretty obvious.
Unless they become independant, yes. See Catalans and Scots... and....
-Jean-Jacques Rousseau
lol...I definetly think not....
I guess you have a good feeling of the Quebec's anglos community, so i'd be curious to know what is the feeling about this nation question in the community?
Around me (mostly french entourage) peoples think it's just like pointing an orange and say "this is an orange", but people are mostly stunned by the reaction it gets all around Canada. I mean a minister did quit over this resolution, to me it's a bit overreacting, but as i said on many occasions, when it comes down to Quebec, it gets more drama than it should.
-Jean-Jacques Rousseau
What really aggravates me in Quebec is the "Language Police". For those of you who are not aware of them, let me enlighten you. They work for the Quebec govt and drive around looking for any sign in a store window that is not French. And then, by law, the owner of the establishment must change his sign so that there is a french sign, and if he wants English on the sign, it has to be 50% of the size of the french words. It's a fucking joke! Why not just make it mandatory to have bilingual signs? Same size, same font, same color, who gives a shit!
I love French people and I love English people.. except if you're from Toronto, but that's another story
Just a little fun ribbing guys.
Well, i don't think there will be a more pequiste way of governing unless the PQ gets elected, the only thing i see that could change with this recognition could be the international credibility or voice. I'm not a huge fan of the PQ, but i'm a separatist, for sure, a mild one if i can say, but sure would vote yes if there ever is another referendum, that being said, if someone re-open the constitution and makes Quebec sign it, i'll also vote yes to this referendum.
Language police do not roam around looking for english signs, they work base on complaints. I agree (and said on this board before) that the language signs law should be abolished, but the rest of the bill 101 talking about the right to work in french (language in work spaces) and sending kids to french school is still good in my opinion.
-Jean-Jacques Rousseau
The irony is, when it's all said and done, what Quebec is doing right now will sooner or later help the first nations cause, just my two cents...
-Jean-Jacques Rousseau
QUEBEC NATION
Wednesday, November 29, 2006
I blame Howard Dean. Was Creeping Deanism that sent Quebec over the edge.
Canada has identity issues. It wants to be like America. Then it wants to be not like America. And sometimes it wants to be anti-American.
At the beginning of the invasion of Iraq, under the leadership of Jean Chrétien, Canada stood up against American influence, alone in the Anglosphere to do so. But it left a feeling of being cold and alone, amplified by the bitter wind on the Winnipeg plains and a hockey strike sent - perhaps by God - to punish them or as many considered, sent for that same purpose by the American hockey commissioner.
But there is some awful thing gnawing at the heart of English-speaking Canadians that makes them want and need to be something like Americans. Distance causes anxiety. We are bound together somehow like the goddess with two faces. So slouching toward Bush, after Chrétien, Canadians next brought in Stephen Harper, a conservative from the western provinces, which are supposed to be something like Texas only cold as Ned. Harper is an evangelical church attendee as well. That brought a satisfying alignment for awhile and after stating boldly that Canada would defend the Northwest Passage against encroachment by American submarines – which brought great laughs on the excellent Canadian comedy hours – Canada rightly sent soldiers to fight the Taliban in Afghanistan.
Quebec however, has none of these identity issues. As far as I can see, Québécois have never wanted to be like Americans, even though most French-speaking Québécois probably share blood with New Englanders like myself from the days of the industrial economy when Catholic French and Irish fought and married together. But they do not want to be like us and they do not want to be like Anglo-Canadians either. They have been going to the same stone churches since 1607 more or less without interruption or upheaval. They are not like anyone else on this continent or on any other continent. They are like themselves.
But big problems arose just recently. In the last few weeks Canada’s Liberals woke up again. The tide had turned again in American politics. Shouldn’t they turn as well? Strange as it seems, the Liberals, putting forth a Harvard professor for leader who has lived the last 30 years in the United States, then thought it would be a great idea to invite Howard Dean to speak to their national convention.
Howard Dean? There are some things that the French just cannot understand about the English-speaking Canadians. This is one of those things and they might share it with the rest of us. Why in the world would Canada invite a foreigner to speak at their Liberal convention? And why Howard Dean? Here in the United States, new Democrats elected in November have been calling for his removal from his position as Chairman of the Democratic National Committee.
What is interesting about this is that when Howard Dean was Governor of Vermont, Vermont had a very practical and positive working relationship with Quebec, its next-door neighbor. Dr. Dean even did much to encourage regional relationships over federalism. But I cannot imagine in a million years the Bloc Québécois inviting him to their convention.
It was more of the same. In the last election there was some controversy when Bill Clinton came to speak – came to campaign – for liberal English-speaking politicians.
Bloc Québécois leader Gilles Duceppe proposed that Parliament declare Quebec a nation. And in a preemptive strike as ill conceived as his current Texas counterpart's recent tactics in the Middle East, Prime Minister Harper declared, "Quebec is a nation. But it will never be an independent nation."
Commentators made the point that there are no legal or Parliamentary implications to Harpers’ statement. But the implications are myriad and go to the core of identity on our North American continent.
The Québécois movement started not long ago with contention boiling over at a hockey game between French and English speaking fans in Montreal. But Quebec is not a "new" nation like something drawn on the map by Winston Churchill between cocktails at the end of World War II (or by vegans "reinventing themselves" in the Pacific Northwest).
Quite the contrary. Quebec has an old ancient Acadian soul which precedes English presence everywhere on this continent outside of New England and Virginia, and it is something you sense right away when you visit there. Quebec takes modernism in stride; it takes all of the political trends, fashions and currencies in stride. It has something to return to when the trends pass. Quebec has an old soul, while the rest of Canada has a new soul; or a nervous soul; or a neurotic soul; or no soul.
Quebec has always been here and will always be here. Quebec is like Ukraine, older than Russia, way older that communism, political nihilism, capitalism and consumerism; still there when the rave passes and it awakens again. Quebec is like Ireland, once, future and always, watching Great Britain rise to the world around it and fall again. Quebec is like the Old Dominion, acquired and tamed and mastered by the New Man of the North, as the great historian W.J. Cash put it more or less, but a spirit bound to the land like a river.
What if Cromwell had declared Ireland to be a nation but never to be free as Harper did Quebec? What if Lincoln had declared the South to be divisible and autonomous?
Quebec is and always has been a nation. The question is now, what is Canada?
Bernie Quigley
http://www.freemarketnews.com/Analysis/27/6480/bernie.asp?wid=27&nid=6480
-Jean-Jacques Rousseau
There is a HUGE difference between wanting to keep your culture and being so INSECURE about you culture that it forces you to the extremes. I don't mean to brag, but if everyone thought like I do, we would all live peacefully.
And he NAILS it.
I agree.