all it takes for something to exist is...

Ahnimus · April 2007

onelongsong wrote:

and each person perceives reality different; therefore there is no reality. you may agree on facts; but each perception is different.
for example: you stated the was a smiley face. i call it a happy face. now this is a happy face in my perception.
many will agree with me so what does that do to your reality? your thought tells you is a smiley face and perceives it to be reality. to others it's a happy face. thus reality is confined to the mind. what the mind sees as real.

Ok, good, so you are able to produce the same pixel layout as me, doesn't matter what you call it, the pixels are still arranged identically.

Ahnimus · April 2007

onelongsong wrote:

time doesn't exist. you can't prove it does. time is only a method used by man to measure a section of distance that has no beginning or no end.

Time is a symbol that represents and objective truth.

Jeanie · April 2007

onelongsong wrote:

time doesn't exist. you can't prove it does. time is only a method used by man to measure a section of distance that has no beginning or no end.

Yes, VERY profound!!!!

And while I'm here, cate, I'm with cutback on this one, I agree and disagree.

RolandTD20Kdrummer · April 2007

Ahnimus wrote:

Actually, if you watch the full clip, I think it's available on ebaumsworld.com killsometime.com youtube.com or shoutfile.com, they discuss the scientific basis for their work. Just like chinese martial artists, these men condition their bones by striking solid objects, it cause the bones to strengthen. There is a real biological explanation for the strengthening of bones, and ultimately it leads to bones that are harder or as hard as bricks.

It should also be noted that the physics of striking do not require the striking object to be harder than the struck object for the struck object to break.

I will add that if the initial force transfered to the struck object isn't sufficient enough to transfer momentum, say the object is too elastic or resistent to the force given, that force will then bounce back into the striking object, causing a broken hand no doubt. I've played around with breaking boards, and not the cheap, softwood boards you order from karate supplies, but real hardwood 2x4s. If struck lightly, the pain is incredible, however, if struck with maximum velocity and minimal surface area, the board will break, and in that case all momentum is transfered through the board and no pain is suffered by the striking object (hand).

There's a whole lot of mental conditioning allowing that strengthening of bone to take place though. The brain controls it all. The mental fortitude required to train to that effect is what makes it possible. Envision bones of steel like strength and you get them...

angelica · April 2007

Ahnimus wrote:

Right, which is why we have "reality" and "perception" two different things.

Can you please elaborate as to what you mean in this context?

In conversation, you and I, often refer to perception as internal reality, because internally it's what one perceives as real, but it is not a reality independant of our minds and therefor is not reality, only a perception of what is real.

I think you and I have different perception as to what our "minds" are. I believe we are all immersed in mind as one, and that we also personalize it by manifesting it individually in our brains and as our perspective of this whole. It sounds like you believe this manifestation in our brain is the cause. I see it as part of the whole complete picture of all the reams of variables contained in any one slice of reality.

onelongsong · April 2007

angelica wrote:

You obviously don't understand the mindset of truly believing everything is a manifestation of one's consciousness.

remember the twilight zone episode where the guy only existed in someone elses dream?

he could be a manifestation of someone's mind. the person you know as ____________ could be only the alter ego of what someone else wants to be or wishes they were. you wouldn't recognise __________ on the street because he/she only exists here in PJ land.

you and i are the few that confess flaws and faults and even defects here on the board. how do we know that some here are not as they portray themselves? so they don't exist in reality. they're actors playing a part.

Cosmo · April 2007

onelongsong wrote:

time doesn't exist. you can't prove it does. time is only a method used by man to measure a section of distance that has no beginning or no end.

...
i disagree... I believe time exists, whether Man exists or not. Time existed before Man existed and will exist long after Man become extinct.
Man exists within the boundaries of Time and Space.

Ahnimus · April 2007

RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:

There's a whole lot of mental conditioning allowing that strengthening of bone to take place though. The mental fortitude required to train to that effect is what makes it possible. Envision bones of steel like strength and you get them...

I've no condition of mental state other than knowledge to allow for my abilities.

I've stated before that thinking about muscle mass can cause mass to increase, this is however an internal mechanism of our bodies. Our brains send hormones PPAR-Gamma and PPAR-Delta to the muscle tissue to trigger the burning of stored adipose tissue, which by laws of energy conservation become muscle tissue in the absence of physical exertion.

However, this does not apply to thinking about someone else's muscle tissue. It's not been done, because it would be absurd, but experimenting with the effect of thoughts on a separate individuals muscle mass would prove ineffective. Countless experiments of "thoughts affecting reality" have been performed and all conclusively show that our thoughts have no effect on physical reality outside of our bodies. There have been non-scientists and fringe scientists who've made such claims, but empirical skepticism has weeded them out.

Ahnimus · April 2007

angelica wrote:

Can you please elaborate as to what you mean in this context?

I think you and I have different perception as to what our "minds" are. I believe we are all immersed in mind as one, and that we also personalize it by manifesting it individually in our brains and as our perspective of this whole. It sounds like you believe this manifestation in our brain is the cause. I see it as part of the whole complete picture of all the reams of variables contained in any one slice of reality.

I have no idea what you said there.

Ahnimus · April 2007

All of this is rather infant philosophy. Can we move on to the hard stuff?

angelica · April 2007

Ahnimus wrote:

All of this is rather infant philosophy. Can we move on to the hard stuff?

Go ahead, I'll meet you there....

onelongsong · April 2007

Ahnimus wrote:

We've objectively proven that (in reality) people hallucinate, are delusional and a large majority of people have psychotic experiences.

I know that if I was able to reproduce your results that I would be in a position to believe it is real, but that doesn't mean it is, it could just be a self-induced psychotic episode, which is why I choose the opinion that it is probably not real. Mainly because it exists only within your mind and cannot be studied objectively.

but you're afraid to confront it. you won't open your mind to the possability. i promise you it'll be an increadible experience. thinking is the best way to travel.
you don't know what you're missing. there's a whole other world out there.

onelongsong · April 2007

Cosmo wrote:

...
i disagree... I believe time exists, whether Man exists or not. Time existed before Man existed and will exist long after Man become extinct.
Man exists within the boundaries of Time and Space.

then it should be easy for you to prove time.

i'll be here a while.

Ahnimus · April 2007

onelongsong wrote:

but you're afraid to confront it. you won't open your mind to the possability. i promise you it'll be an increadible experience. thinking is the best way to travel.
you don't know what you're missing. there's a whole other world out there.

Doing LSD is an incredible experience too. Another one that I stay away from.

The "whole other world" is probably just in your mind.

angelica · April 2007

Ahnimus wrote:

I have no idea what you said there.

I see that the human mind is a receiver for the mind or consciousness that underlies everything. I see mind as general, until we each individually personalize it from our perspective where it shows up as activity in the brain. Therefore, I'm guessing it's safe to assume that you and I look at "mind" differently.

Ahnimus · April 2007

onelongsong wrote:

then it should be easy for you to prove time.

i'll be here a while.

You just admitted time.

A simple thought experiment "what if time did not exist" proves that it does.

angelica · April 2007

Also, Ahnimus, you said: "Right, which is why we have "reality" and "perception" two different things." Can you explain what you meant when you said this awhile back--regarding the situation we talked about then?

Ahnimus · April 2007

angelica wrote:

I see that the human mind is a receiver for the mind or consciousness that underlies everything. I see mind as general, until we each individually personalize it from our perspective where it shows up as activity in the brain. Therefore, I'm guessing it's safe to assume that you and I look at "mind" differently.

I know that the brain correlates with mind. That's all that really matters. It's been objectively proven by Francis Crick and Christof Koch.

You can choose to believe it's like a soul, or something that objectively does not exist and enters the body at some time during life. But it's all speculation, it's like waving a knife around in the dark. I choose not to blindly believe in things. If you do, that is fine, but it's hardly a leg to stand on in a debate.

Ahnimus · April 2007

angelica wrote:

Also, Ahnimus, you said: "Right, which is why we have "reality" and "perception" two different things." Can you explain what you meant when you said this awhile back--regarding the situation we talked about then?

Main Entry: per·cep·tion
Pronunciation: p&r-'sep-sh&n
Function: noun
Etymology: Latin perception-, perceptio act of perceiving, from percipere
1 a : a result of perceiving : OBSERVATION b : a mental image : CONCEPT
2 obsolete : CONSCIOUSNESS
3 a : awareness of the elements of environment through physical sensation <color perception> b : physical sensation interpreted in the light of experience
4 a : quick, acute, and intuitive cognition : APPRECIATION b : a capacity for comprehension
synonym see DISCERNMENT
- per·cep·tion·al /-shn&l, -sh&-n&l/ adjective

RolandTD20Kdrummer · April 2007

Ahnimus wrote:

I've no condition of mental state other than knowledge to allow for my abilities.

I've stated before that thinking about muscle mass can cause mass to increase, this is however an internal mechanism of our bodies. Our brains send hormones PPAR-Gamma and PPAR-Delta to the muscle tissue to trigger the burning of stored adipose tissue, which by laws of energy conservation become muscle tissue in the absence of physical exertion.

However, this does not apply to thinking about someone else's muscle tissue. It's not been done, because it would be absurd, but experimenting with the effect of thoughts on a separate individuals muscle mass would prove ineffective. Countless experiments of "thoughts affecting reality" have been performed and all conclusively show that our thoughts have no effect on physical reality outside of our bodies. There have been non-scientists and fringe scientists who've made such claims, but empirical skepticism has weeded them out.

yeah but there is a way to get another person to grow muscle outside your body. You tell them!

Hey when you said light has no shape, how can it not have shape when it can be distorted. I see time as product of vibration like a point on a guitar string.

all it takes for something to exist is...

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