The 14 Worst Corporatations

ryan198 wrote:

You're kidding right? So you think that you had an equal opportunity as George W. Bush to become president of the United States? NFW!!!! Wimpering and whining is not my goal, my goal is to raise the level of other consciousses so that one day we all do actually have an equal opportunity. Sure there is a large level of opportunity that begs for the individual to do stuff, but there is no way there is an equal opportunity for achievement in this country. You can't even try to argue that with a straight face. Since education is a key to opportunity equal opportunity would mean that everyone goes to schools with the same books, with similar ability teachers, and with an equal chance to get to the next level...that's a croc and you know it.

No, I'm not kidding. Yes, I do think I had an equal opportunity to become President of the United States. Not every success story in the United States started with an individual who was born with a silver spoon in their mouth. You sound like someone who thrives on feeling sorry themselves, and who excels at blaming their past failures on the fact that you weren't born a rich, white male. Don't even start with the education argument either, plenty of successful people in this world didn't have much of an education. Nothing I said was a crock, and you know it. If you want to sit around feeling sorry for yourself, then go ahead...but when you're old, grumpy and have nothing to show for your time here on Earth, maybe you'll start to realize that you should have helped yourself in this world, instead of directing all of your bitterness and hatred towards people who were dealt a better lot in life than yourself. None of us choose the life we were born into, so quit acting like the white man is holding you down, and go do what you want with your life. Life isn't fair, freaking deal with it. Do you think Condi Rice got to where she is because she blamed whitey for all of her problems? What about Colin Powell? What about Bill Cosby, or Oprah, or any other number of minority activists, artists and leaders? People like yourself enjoy wallowing in your own self pity. I feel sorry for you. You'll never amount to what you want to be, and you'll always find someone to blame for it but yourself. What a waste of life.

Its funny that these corporations supported both Republican and Demicratic parties last election... corperations are the new buracracy of America and have been for a while but not as bad as today. Money walks and talks. These corp.s spend hundreds of millions dollars annually towards advertisements, which are usually Americas favorites. Expecially Coca Cola and Ford try to almost give the impression that they are American culture. People give into the impression which is the sad part, but then again without a soul and sense of being is the saddest of it all. Yeah, I drink cokes and I used to own a ThunderBird, but I never say "Hey there Julie, did you see that new coke comercial? It was pretty clever... what with the penguins and such." Corporations really have not only the U.S. but the whole demecratic world by the balls. I was in FrankFurt, Germany and all around Japan last year and ppl over there just find anything popular in the U.S. as prophets of Jesus . Including shitty bands of the U.S. Its like they have no choice but to like any shit thats popualur in the U.S. This is the same as highly played and heavely reserched commercial of these corperations.... Make your stuff so popular that ppl feel like shit if they dont buy into it. I mean if you think about it what is Nike shoes???? A shoe with the popular check, Only became popular cause of adds.

ryan198 wrote:

Actually I'm a 3rd year PhD student at the University of Maryland. I come from a lower class, christian family of 8 in upstate NY. I went to community college, I earned a scholarship and went to a private school got my bachelors, got my master's at UMD, and here I am. I've lived the American Dream, but for every one of me there's a bunch more of not me's. I see it everytime I go home. In W's world that is really not the case, it's not even close. If W didn't get to be prez he would have run another company into the ground, or he would've been blowing coke out at the ranch or something.

Oh, so you DID make it in life?! Okay. Well, I don't know what to say then. It seems like everyone in this forum who is saying that certain people like themselves are so disadvantaged, somehow, have managed to do fine for themselves. I don't know what to tell you about the other "not me's". Have you ever thought that maybe some people in this world just simply don't have your aspirations or goals, or simply don't care?!?! You do realize that there is plenty of "white trash" in this world too, right? Plenty of poor white people? Uneducated white people?

ryan198 wrote:

First of all Colin Powell is just as irish as he is black so really he's kinda white.

And you asked ME if I was joking?!?! LOL!!! Are you serious with THIS statement?!?!

ryan198 wrote:

Secondly for every Colin, Condi, Oprah, and Bill there's hundreds of thousands that are left behind. That's how the system works it gets us to believe that anyone can make it, but look around at all the people in power and tell me it isn't skewed in a certain direction. How many black presidents have we had? Women? Outwardly gay? How many minority owners of sports teams, major corporations, heads of schools, etc. do we have? To suggest equal opportunity would be to suggest that white men are naturally better at business, and leading companies which is kind of ridiculous.

So being outwardly gay, or female, or a minority is a good pre-requisite for a political position? How does that make anymore sense than electing someone as president simply because they're white? Shouldn't the best candidate get the position, regardless of race, gender or sexuality? I won't argue the lack of minorities as president...the record speaks for itself...but that's about it. We have plenty of minorities running sports teams, corporations, heads of schools, etc. You name it. Judges, politicians, athletes, actors, whatever...

ryan198 wrote:

You're kidding right? So you think that you had an equal opportunity as George W. Bush to become president of the United States? NFW!!!! Wimpering and whining is not my goal, my goal is to raise the level of other consciousses so that one day we all do actually have an equal opportunity. Sure there is a large level of opportunity that begs for the individual to do stuff, but there is no way there is an equal opportunity for achievement in this country. You can't even try to argue that with a straight face. Since education is a key to opportunity equal opportunity would mean that everyone goes to schools with the same books, with similar ability teachers, and with an equal chance to get to the next level...that's a croc and you know it.

Someone down the line in the Bush family tree worked hard at something, or got lucky, or came into a lot of money. They held onto it, used it to gain influence and became a rich and influential family. To the point where one of them became president. No most of us don't have the same opportunities as he had, the whole point is that if you work hard and don't squander your money away, your children have better opportunities than you had...and on down the line.

These questions were from Ryan. I'll answer them as a white male.
1. Been forced to take classes in Home Economics b/c Business wasn't for you? Was never given the opportunity to take home ec. Jocks in high school aren't upposed to take classes like that.
2. Been pulled over solely b/c of the color of your skin? (It happens I have a Mex-Am brother-in-law who is a NYC cop who was pulled over countless times b/c of his ethnicity and now, unfortunately does it himself) Yup. Been hassled by the cops for being the only white guy in a very black part of Dover, Delaware.
3. Never seen a class/race/ethnic likeness as a celebrity (besides an athlete)? First, celebrities come in just about every class/race/ethnic and sexuality there is. I can't think of any segment of society not represented by a celebrity. Second, once you hold to the Human Rights idea that we are all equal regardless of class/race/ethnic or sexuality why would you care about the those qualities in anyone.
4. Had a nickname regarding the color of your skin rooted in centuries of domination by another ethnicity? Nope, but never known anyone else who did either.
5. Had a city flooded twice to rid it of the poor? Please give us the example here. Please back up how the flooding was caused by people.
6. Had a person look at you and automatically asume that you cannot complete a task solely b/c of your gender? Would you think I knew how to give a good bikini wax.
7. Been denied access to a bar b/c of the way you dress which is stereotyped as bad? Yeah, the bar had a sign saying no t-shirts. I've also been told to leave a bar in Baltimore because I was white.
8. Been held for hours at an airport b/c they were racial profiling? Been held at the boarder for long hair profiling.
9. Been afraid to go to the ATM? Nope. But I'm not stupid about it either.
10. Lived in a society that cares and upholds the sports that men are better equiped to play over those than women are better equiped to play? Funny how girls can join a boys sport league but not the other way round. Even when that sport is not offered as either a co-ed or all boys sport.
11. Not received a coaching job b/c of your gender? No but I only coach sports I'm knowledgeable in.
12. Been sexually harassed in the locker room b/c of your gender? Yeah, girls can be brutal on a guy when you visit them in their change room.
13. Been whistled at while walking down the street? Yeah.
14. Had movies like Falling Down made lamenting about the fact that you were gaining voice in this country? Never heard of the movie.
15. Had movies made like Remember the Titans that make it seem like integration was bad for 5 minutes? So was integration bad for more or less than 5 minutes. This question makes no sense.
16. Had anyone look at you and think to themselves or say aloud "your pretty smart for a black man" or "your pretty smart for a girl"? I've had people talk to me like I'm stupid when I used to stutter.
17. Lived in a country whre it was under the common assumption that you were the weaker sex, naturally more athletic and prone to violence? I live in a country where men get shit on by the court system in divorce and especially child custody cases.
18. Had to fight to be married?
19. Been degraded b/c of the sexual relationship you chose to engage in? Yeah.
20. Been derogatorily referred to as a slut b/c you slept with multiple partners? Yeah.
21. Didn't have daddy play ball with you in the backyard b/c he was playing catch with your big brother? No but I was dragged all around the country I live in as part of getting an older sister to dance recitals. I would have rather ha the option of playing ball at home with my friends.
22. Not been able to get into a building b/c you were in a wheelchair? Question 22 and you finally have me.
23. Weren't believed in an argument with another person b/c of the color of your skin? (Check out bell hooks "killing rage" on this one) No, but I've had court ordered family councellors not belive me because of my sex.

The only difference is that I will never allow myself to be a victim or think of myself as a victim. Life's not fair, I learned that a long time ago. I stopped feeling sorry for myself at about 14. You know the age you're supposed to start growing up at. You choose your own destiny in life. You can choose to bestow victimhood on people all you want but that sure seems to be a very sad and disrespectful way to think of them.

farfromglorified wrote:

Dude, I'l answer you for the umpteenth time. You are not interested in educating consumers such that they can make their own determinations. Stop hiding behind that claim. You are interested in voters and consumers reaching your conclusions. Your posts are consistently one-sided and anti-business. That is your right. You may be as anti-business as you'd like. But don't pretend that you're trying to paint a complete picture. You don't.

no, i'm saying 'these ppl/corps do some pretty fucked up shit, do you really feel comfortable supporting these types of things?' of course i'm interested in more ppl standing up and saying this isn't acceptable! just like you want ppl to see you paying taxes as everyone holding a gun to your head and robbing you (btw, how'd you get from place to place? roads?) but if not then it can lead to discussion about it.

do you really think not saying '...but millions of ppl also enjoy cokes products' is really hiding something from them? would you go to the trial of a serial childrapist/murderer and argue 'but he's a pretty nice guy and he's always let me borrow some $ when i needed it...and he gave me a ride once...oh, and this one time...'? do you have any idea how long it would take to include every little detail? do you think someone would actually read something that long? or is it more productive to spark questions and concerns in one's head and let them look into things, too?

farfromglorified wrote:

It could have been funded just as easily with the Medicaid drug plan, or the social security fund, or the war itself, or the EPA budget, or part of the highway budget.

yet it WASN'T

if i only have $20 left in my bank account and no food for dinner tonight and i go spend it on cigarettes or beer or drugs...are you saying i didn't choose that over dinner? are you really saying 'well, i also chose gas the other day over dinner'? and yes, in a way you'd be right, but the other would be more apt, it's a cheap way out of owning up for your actions.

farfromglorified wrote:

It certainly would be a crime. But Halliburton is not 'robbing the bank'. They are a contractor. Like many contractors, they have made billing errors. Some of those errors are willful fraud. They should be punished. But they should also be rewarded for their successes.

and i think if their 'mistakes' and fraud add up to the amounts it has here they lose ANY reward. if your kid stole money from you but made his bed would you go buy him some ice cream? at a certain point your bad actions cancel out your good actions completely. if it had just been once or twice it might not be an issue, maybe say 'those few guys did it' but when you see it a bunch of times all over you realize it's a conscious effort.

yes, 'like many contractors...' i agree. however, it's partly MY tax money they are using and i dislike how it is being mismanaged.

farfromglorified wrote:

And then it would be only a matter of time until you complained about corporate America leaving our kids on the streets, right?

not if they stole billions of dollars thru billing 'errors' i wouldn't

farfromglorified wrote:

So the fuck what??? I love it. Your standard of failure requires a standard of success. When someone succeeds "lots" of times, you say "so the fuck what". And when they miss it a couple of times, you go apeshit. And then you ask me how I can run a business. Punish failure, reward success. That's how it works.

it depends on how you are defining 'miss'

let's see, they lost $9BILLION of our tax dollars in Iraq (govt, not halliburton), just no accounting of where it is at all...Halliburton has overcharged a bunch of times totalling potentially over a billion (and you call that chump change! ha, try visiting reality!)...sorry, but that's a pretty big 'miss' to me. i don't care how small a % that billion is in 'the overall scheme of things' as you try to paint it. i care that's a fucking BILLIONS OF DOLLARS. money that could've funded headstart and other programs HERE for the PEOPLE, not jsut being looted by pals.

farfromglorified wrote:

I'm not justifying theft. That's your business, taxman. Punish failure. Punish failure. Punish failure. Punish failure. Punish failure. Punish failure. Punish failure. Got it?

Now, reward success.

you do drive on roads, don't you? you benefit from the use of taxes just like everyone else. and your ending rant sums it up perfectly...7 failures, 1 success and you want a cookie?

do you think we should say 'hitler did some pretty nice and good things throughout his life...maybe we shouldn't give him such a hard time for killing millions, in fact let's honor his good deeds'?

no

do you say my kid may be in a violent gang but he's an honor roll student AND a boy scout, so let's forget all his crimes?

no

do you say 'enron still gave power to lots of ppl'?

no

why not? b/c their bad far outweighs their good, anyone should be held to that standard.

and as an earlier comment it's not just halliburton...it's the whole sector, the military-industrial complex. and there's a group of them who revolve in and out of government and the private sector setting up policy and threats to profit for their friends and then after their terms reitre back into that sector and profit, too.

pnac, cheney, rummy (good thing we dropped so much money on rummy's company for the tamiflu!)...the carlyle group:
daddy bush
carlucci - Former Secretary of Defense and Deputy Director of the CIA
baker - Former Secretary of State and Sec. of Treasury
darman - White House Budget Advisor Bush / Clinton Administrations
pm major


'Don't join the book burners. Do not think you are going to conceal thoughts by concealing evidence that they ever existed.'
----
'Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired, signifies in the final sense a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed.'
----
'This conjunction of an immense military establishment and a large arms industry is new in the American experience. The total influence – economic, political, even spiritual – is felt in every city, every Statehouse, every office of the Federal government. We recognize the imperative need for this development. Yet we must not fail to comprehend its grave implications. Our toil, resources and livelihood are all involved; so is the very structure of our society.

In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist.

We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes. We should take nothing for granted. Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals, so that security and liberty may prosper together.'

Dwight Eisenhower

surferdude wrote:

These questions were from Ryan. I'll answer them as a white male.
1. Been forced to take classes in Home Economics b/c Business wasn't for you? Was never given the opportunity to take home ec. Jocks in high school aren't upposed to take classes like that.
2. Been pulled over solely b/c of the color of your skin? (It happens I have a Mex-Am brother-in-law who is a NYC cop who was pulled over countless times b/c of his ethnicity and now, unfortunately does it himself) Yup. Been hassled by the cops for being the only white guy in a very black part of Dover, Delaware.
3. Never seen a class/race/ethnic likeness as a celebrity (besides an athlete)? First, celebrities come in just about every class/race/ethnic and sexuality there is. I can't think of any segment of society not represented by a celebrity. Second, once you hold to the Human Rights idea that we are all equal regardless of class/race/ethnic or sexuality why would you care about the those qualities in anyone.
4. Had a nickname regarding the color of your skin rooted in centuries of domination by another ethnicity? Nope, but never known anyone else who did either.
5. Had a city flooded twice to rid it of the poor? Please give us the example here. Please back up how the flooding was caused by people.
6. Had a person look at you and automatically asume that you cannot complete a task solely b/c of your gender? Would you think I knew how to give a good bikini wax.
7. Been denied access to a bar b/c of the way you dress which is stereotyped as bad? Yeah, the bar had a sign saying no t-shirts. I've also been told to leave a bar in Baltimore because I was white.
8. Been held for hours at an airport b/c they were racial profiling? Been held at the boarder for long hair profiling.
9. Been afraid to go to the ATM? Nope. But I'm not stupid about it either.
10. Lived in a society that cares and upholds the sports that men are better equiped to play over those than women are better equiped to play? Funny how girls can join a boys sport league but not the other way round. Even when that sport is not offered as either a co-ed or all boys sport.
11. Not received a coaching job b/c of your gender? No but I only coach sports I'm knowledgeable in.
12. Been sexually harassed in the locker room b/c of your gender? Yeah, girls can be brutal on a guy when you visit them in their change room.
13. Been whistled at while walking down the street? Yeah.
14. Had movies like Falling Down made lamenting about the fact that you were gaining voice in this country? Never heard of the movie.
15. Had movies made like Remember the Titans that make it seem like integration was bad for 5 minutes? So was integration bad for more or less than 5 minutes. This question makes no sense.
16. Had anyone look at you and think to themselves or say aloud "your pretty smart for a black man" or "your pretty smart for a girl"? I've had people talk to me like I'm stupid when I used to stutter.
17. Lived in a country whre it was under the common assumption that you were the weaker sex, naturally more athletic and prone to violence? I live in a country where men get shit on by the court system in divorce and especially child custody cases.
18. Had to fight to be married?
19. Been degraded b/c of the sexual relationship you chose to engage in? Yeah.
20. Been derogatorily referred to as a slut b/c you slept with multiple partners? Yeah.
21. Didn't have daddy play ball with you in the backyard b/c he was playing catch with your big brother? No but I was dragged all around the country I live in as part of getting an older sister to dance recitals. I would have rather ha the option of playing ball at home with my friends.
22. Not been able to get into a building b/c you were in a wheelchair? Question 22 and you finally have me.
23. Weren't believed in an argument with another person b/c of the color of your skin? (Check out bell hooks "killing rage" on this one) No, but I've had court ordered family councellors not belive me because of my sex.

The only difference is that I will never allow myself to be a victim or think of myself as a victim. Life's not fair, I learned that a long time ago. I stopped feeling sorry for myself at about 14. You know the age you're supposed to start growing up at. You choose your own destiny in life. You can choose to bestow victimhood on people all you want but that sure seems to be a very sad and disrespectful way to think of them.

If you read the end of my post I mentioned (dis)ability as another place where one can be discriminated against...a white man with a disability (you have indicated some form of speech impediment (i'm learning more about this b/c my g/f is a speech pathologist) and wheelchair use) is not afforded the same privileges and rights than a white upper-middle class heterosexual man who is able. I know life isn't fair, that's the whole point of me arguing is that I want to make it more fair. Just plugging along and working hard isn't going to change that. My point of fighting then is not merely me whining b/c I didn't make it anywhere in life (read the above post to see that I'm doing exactly what I want with my life) it's that I want other people to have the same opportunity to have as good a life as mine. At the present moment that does not exist. It will probably not exist, but that doesn't mean I won't fight for it, and I don't think that's a bad cause. Contrary to popular belief I don't blame the structure, I just want people to understand how lucky their lives are for the most part before they start basing other people for their choices. I want people that are down in this society to get up and become strong and have a voice, and I want our government to listen to that voice, right now it's not happening. It's good that you were able to make it out of your situation, it seems like you've worked for what you have got, I want to help more people be like you...is that a bad thing?

ryan198 wrote:

If you read the end of my post I mentioned (dis)ability as another place where one can be discriminated against...a white man with a disability (you have indicated some form of speech impediment (i'm learning more about this b/c my g/f is a speech pathologist) and wheelchair use) is not afforded the same privileges and rights than a white upper-middle class heterosexual man who is able. I know life isn't fair, that's the whole point of me arguing is that I want to make it more fair. Just plugging along and working hard isn't going to change that. My point of fighting then is not merely me whining b/c I didn't make it anywhere in life (read the above post to see that I'm doing exactly what I want with my life) it's that I want other people to have the same opportunity to have as good a life as mine. At the present moment that does not exist. It will probably not exist, but that doesn't mean I won't fight for it, and I don't think that's a bad cause. Contrary to popular belief I don't blame the structure, I just want people to understand how lucky their lives are for the most part before they start basing other people for their choices. I want people that are down in this society to get up and become strong and have a voice, and I want our government to listen to that voice, right now it's not happening. It's good that you were able to make it out of your situation, it seems like you've worked for what you have got, I want to help more people be like you...is that a bad thing?

The number one determining factor in being successful in life is perserverance. Not how rich your parents were, color of skin, looks, or brains. What I find lacking in so many posts is that no one seems to acknowledge this and then want to teach this trait to people. All I ever hear is remove barriers and make it more fair. That does absolutely nothing for the person who hasn't learned the skill of perserverance.
I would never count a stutter as a disability. It's a stutter, saying it's a disability is just making a victim of the person.
It's a great thing to want to help people succeed. But you can't make anyone bigger by making others smaller. You can only give people a hand up. Too much of what I see and hear is people wanting to make successful people smaller in order that others seem bigger.

El_Kabong wrote:

no, i'm saying 'these ppl/corps do some pretty fucked up shit, do you really feel comfortable supporting these types of things?' of course i'm interested in more ppl standing up and saying this isn't acceptable! just like you want ppl to see you paying taxes as everyone holding a gun to your head and robbing you (btw, how'd you get from place to place? roads?) but if not then it can lead to discussion about it.

Ok. This is a discussion. How happy are you about that?

do you really think not saying '...but millions of ppl also enjoy cokes products' is really hiding something from them? would you go to the trial of a serial childrapist/murderer and argue 'but he's a pretty nice guy and he's always let me borrow some $ when i needed it...and he gave me a ride once...oh, and this one time...'? do you have any idea how long it would take to include every little detail? do you think someone would actually read something that long? or is it more productive to spark questions and concerns in one's head and let them look into things, too?

It's very productive to ask questions. There are zero question marks in the article posted.

yet it WASN'T

if i only have $20 left in my bank account and no food for dinner tonight and i go spend it on cigarettes or beer or drugs...are you saying i didn't choose that over dinner? are you really saying 'well, i also chose gas the other day over dinner'? and yes, in a way you'd be right, but the other would be more apt, it's a cheap way out of owning up for your actions.

Do you understand what a deficit is? Your example is missing one key element -- the credit card.

and i think if their 'mistakes' and fraud add up to the amounts it has here they lose ANY reward. if your kid stole money from you but made his bed would you go buy him some ice cream? at a certain point your bad actions cancel out your good actions completely. if it had just been once or twice it might not be an issue, maybe say 'those few guys did it' but when you see it a bunch of times all over you realize it's a conscious effort.

yes, 'like many contractors...' i agree. however, it's partly MY tax money they are using and i dislike how it is being mismanaged.

I dislike it too. People like you ensure that we have no choice.

not if they stole billions of dollars thru billing 'errors' i wouldn't

Yes you would. You'd simply forget about the state regulations that shut so many of them down and drive up the costs for the rest.

it depends on how you are defining 'miss'

let's see, they lost $9BILLION of our tax dollars in Iraq (govt, not halliburton), just no accounting of where it is at all...Halliburton has overcharged a bunch of times totalling potentially over a billion (and you call that chump change! ha, try visiting reality!)...sorry, but that's a pretty big 'miss' to me. i don't care how small a % that billion is in 'the overall scheme of things' as you try to paint it. i care that's a fucking BILLIONS OF DOLLARS. money that could've funded headstart and other programs HERE for the PEOPLE, not jsut being looted by pals.

Don't even talk to me about "looting". The only reason Haliiburton even has a chance to do these things is because of the mindset of you espouse -- the mindset that says our individual choices can be overridden by something called the "public good".

If you have a problem with looting, rail against it in all its forms. You don't have a problem with looting.

you do drive on roads, don't you? you benefit from the use of taxes just like everyone else. and your ending rant sums it up perfectly...7 failures, 1 success and you want a cookie?

That's your problem. You think Halliburton fails 7 times out of 8.

do you think we should say 'hitler did some pretty nice and good things throughout his life...maybe we shouldn't give him such a hard time for killing millions, in fact let's honor his good deeds'?

no

No.

do you say my kid may be in a violent gang but he's an honor roll student AND a boy scout, so let's forget all his crimes?

no

No.

do you say 'enron still gave power to lots of ppl'?

no

No.

why not? b/c their bad far outweighs their good, anyone should be held to that standard.

Exactly. Now what's missing from the picture you paint?

and as an earlier comment it's not just halliburton...it's the whole sector, the military-industrial complex. and there's a group of them who revolve in and out of government and the private sector setting up policy and threats to profit for their friends and then after their terms reitre back into that sector and profit, too.

Ok. Then give me back my choice to withhold my money.

pnac, cheney, rummy (good thing we dropped so much money on rummy's company for the tamiflu!)...the carlyle group:
daddy bush
carlucci - Former Secretary of Defense and Deputy Director of the CIA
baker - Former Secretary of State and Sec. of Treasury
darman - White House Budget Advisor Bush / Clinton Administrations
pm major

Ok. Then give me back my choice to withhold my money.

'Don't join the book burners. Do not think you are going to conceal thoughts by concealing evidence that they ever existed.'
----

You may want to read that yourself.

'Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired, signifies in the final sense a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed.'
----

You may want to read that yourself. So much that you espouse here has a gun, a warship, a rocket behind it.

'This conjunction of an immense military establishment and a large arms industry is new in the American experience. The total influence – economic, political, even spiritual – is felt in every city, every Statehouse, every office of the Federal government. We recognize the imperative need for this development. Yet we must not fail to comprehend its grave implications. Our toil, resources and livelihood are all involved; so is the very structure of our society.

You do recognize the "imperative need", don't you? And you'll fire any gun, any warship, any rocket to protect it. You'll loot any man that can give it to you.

In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist.

Who are you to discuss "misplaced power", when so much that you want can be achieved only by bullets and never by minds?

We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes. We should take nothing for granted. Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals, so that security and liberty may prosper together.'

You cannot "mesh" good and evil, friend, without ending up with evil.

farfromglorified wrote:

You cannot "mesh" good and evil, friend, without ending up with evil.

We can integrate good and evil and have the truth and information with which to make informed, healthy, empowered decisions from. Enlightenment is about doing so--it is about going beyond being polarised between sides and to being realistically informed and understanding in each moment.