The 14 Worst Corporatations

El_Kabong

farfromglorified wrote:

Yes. But there is also a choice in your residency as well and the actions you make. A rape victim did not choose to be raped by attending a party where she is then raped.

that is not a good analogy. the tax system is common knowledge even for a child, that is not comparable to 'not knowing you will be raped at a party' simply b/c we DO know we have a tax system. are you saying you went thru life until your very first job until you found out ppl are taxed?

angelica

farfromglorified wrote:

Fighting for anything is still fighting! The gun I carry is an acceptance of that fact, not a rejection of it.

farfromglorified wrote:

angelica wrote:

It's an acceptance of continuing the cycles, rather than using your formidable resources to create your dream world.

Really? Why?

When you are part of the gun toting, false power people , participating in those cycles, you are continuing them. You are making fear choices. Your consciousness is committed to being a part of such cycles. Your actions re: your gun are based on the other person, rather than having a raised consciousness yourself to create the non-existence of that which you fear. Raising one's consciousness is about eliminating the mental pattern, before you affirm it to become a reality. You walk around ready to react to another's violence. You affirm and therefore create that which you claim you wish to avoid. Inner contradictions have a tendency towards making themselves real in the outer world--self-fulfilling prophecies. I walk down a very different street. And when I did walk down that street, well, I found exactly what I was looking for.

My gun is part of my "inner power".

Yep--of your choice to play the re-actor game, which is much different that the creator one.

El_Kabong

farfromglorified wrote:

100% of the information would be impossible. We simply do not have access to all of it. However, we also have the capacity of denial, which is the active suppression of information that we already have.

but do you think someone would read a post that contained every little detail someone knew of a corporation?

farfromglorified wrote:

Your government has the world's largest credit card. A $10T credit limit.

that doesn't answer my question to the analogy of someone spending their last $20 on cigarettes, beer or drugs instead of food...

farfromglorified wrote:

Headstart was cut because the administration does not like it. It was not cut because the money isn't there. This administration, like so many others, cares not if the money is there or not. Money spent today simply means more looting tomorrow.

i guess they don't like student loans or medicare/aid, either. the point is they find money for wasteful things instead of programs that benefit society as a whole.

farfromglorified wrote:

Yours is the philosophy of demand, not the philosophy of choice. It is those who share your philosophy that demand I give thousands of dollars per year to Halliburton for no other reason than the fact that they demand it.

i don't demand you give any money to halliburton. i ask if you live here and benefit from this society that you abide by the tax system which is SUPPOSED to benefit society. i dislike how the taxes are spent/managed. you don't throw the baby out w/ the bath water. w/o a tax system it would descend into something like fuedalism where only those w/ money could get an education (since you are against paying taxes for public education), only those who could afford protection would be safe (since you are agaisnt paying taxes for a police department and fire department)...

farfromglorified wrote:

I need not access your brain, only your words. Remember that the next time you tell me I have an obligation to you.

did you build the roads you drive on? do you benefit from the police protection? (the fact that you may not have ever called them does not negate the fact that they protect the community)

farfromglorified wrote:

But you told me that the 7 out of 8 ratio fit the Halliburton situation.

that would be a lie at worst and misrepresentation at best. i never said anything like that. i love how you twist and spin things...

to sum it up this is how it transpired:
-i said halliburton does not deserve the BONUS b/c of abuses.

-you said the few i mentioned were not involving the logistics contract, which the bonus was for

-i listed numerous 'billing errors' of overcharges totalling a pretty big amount (enough to more than fund things like headstart)

-to that you said something like 'yes but, what of the bills that were correct!?' which is meaningless if they knowingly tried to defraud the government and taxpayers w/ their numerous overcharges so that cancels out the good they did that would deserve a bonus. you don't catch someone's hand in the cookie jar then give them some more.

-then you typed out punish failure 7 times and reward success once...i made a joke about you naming more bad than good and thinking the 1 good not only negates the 7 bad but also is desrving of a bonus.

how you got me saying haliburton does 7 bad things for every 1 good thing is beyond me.

farfromglorified wrote:

I know. You gave that up. Now we all have to take it back.

ok, then why are you so critical of anyone discussing abuses of power??

farfromglorified wrote:

Do you hold George Bush to that standard when you see this:

please, starting a war is not the same as supporting a tax system! i hope you didn't pull anything w/ that stretch of yours.

no one dies from paying taxes. on the other hand everyone knows ppl will die from war.

farfromglorified wrote:

You are calling for allowing other people to make my choices for me. Be it on education, in business, in life. And the only way I'm going to let you or anyone else choose my path is at the price of one bullet.

you still are free to make whatever educational choices you choose. did the ppl who paid for your education know what their donations were going to? if not then you allowed others to make that choice for them, right?

the tax system is common knowledge, just as ordering a meal knowing the price. i can not go to my favorite thai place, order my pad kee mao and then get the bill and say 'you can't force me to pay this price!' b/c we all know they can. i accepted the terms of payment/pricing by sitting down, looking at the menu and placing an order...just as youaccept the terms of our tax system by residing here. you can't go to another country and violate their laws and tell them they have no right to force their laws on you, either.

farfromglorified

El_Kabong wrote:

that is not a good analogy. the tax system is common knowledge even for a child, that is not comparable to 'not knowing you will be raped at a party' simply b/c we DO know we have a tax system. are you saying you went thru life until your very first job until you found out ppl are taxed?

:rolleyes:

The possibility of rape at parties is also "common knowledge". That doesn't excuse the rape. If it is announced at the party that every female in attendence is going to be raped whether they like it or not, it wouldn't justify a rape if a woman chose not to leave.

Your tax system isn't justified just because I'm "aware" of it. If I write a letter to the IRS informing them that I don't wish to pay tax, will that work when I can then say "hey, you were aware of my dissent" when I don't pay up???

farfromglorified

angelica wrote:

When you are part of the gun toting, false power people , participating in those cycles, you are continuing them. You are making fear choices. Your consciousness is committed to being a part of such cycles. Your actions re: your gun are based on the other person, rather than having a raised consciousness yourself to create the non-existence of that which you fear. Raising one's consciousness is about eliminating the mental pattern, before you affirm it to become a reality. You walk around ready to react to another's violence. You affirm and therefore create that which you claim you wish to avoid. Inner contradictions have a tendency towards making themselves real in the outer world--self-fulfilling prophecies. I walk down a very different street. And when I did walk down that street, well, I found exactly what I was looking for.

Yep--of your choice to play the re-actor game, which is much different that the creator one.

What have I told you about assumptions? What possibility have you not considered? When I tell you that I carry a gun, yet at the same time tell you that force is wrong, you sense a contradiction. But it is not a contradiction because you've forgotten to ask me a very important question.

El_Kabong

farfromglorified wrote:

:rolleyes:

The possibility of rape at parties is also "common knowledge". That doesn't excuse the rape. If it is announced at the party that every female in attendence is going to be raped whether they like it or not, it wouldn't justify a rape if a woman chose not to leave.

Your tax system isn't justified just because I'm "aware" of it. If I write a letter to the IRS informing them that I don't wish to pay tax, will that work when I can then say "hey, you were aware of my dissent" when I don't pay up???

not every party has a rape. it is common knowledge it MAY happen. no one thinks i MIGHT get taxed, it is a given

farfromglorified

El_Kabong wrote:

i would like to point out a big part of my problem is the bonus they received when their 'billing mistakes' total to potentially over a billion $. i could care less how many bills were correct or how small a % that is out of their overall contract. if someone steals that much they do no deserve a bonus. and the fact that it seems company policy instead of just a few ppl further negates their correct bills at least to the point of NO BONUS IS DESERVED.

Ok, then don't pay it.

if your kid told you he cut the grass and it turns out he only cut 1/2 the yard, would you pay him for the whole yard as well as give him more? but what of the grass he DID cut?

Actually, I was that kid once. My dad told me to cut the grass. I demanded payment. My dad smiled at said he'd pay $50 to do it. I agreed. He then told me that he was deducting my share of the rent and food. This left me with $5. I was pissed, so I went out and mowed my name in the lawn. He gave me $.05 and told me I could go to bed without dinner. That, my friend, is justice.

i never once said or implied not to pay them for work they actually did do. my issues have consistently been the bonus and the NO-BID contracts they received.

Those are your issues? Then why not fight against the organization that grants no-bid contracts? Are you going to primarily blame Halliburton for accepting that contract?

also, you have failed to answer this question for me and i'm hoping maybe this time you can find the time:
you accuse me of being manipulative b/c i said things like 'coke privatizes water' but left out things like 'millions of ppl drink and enjoy their products'

You're being manipulative by pretending that's all I said.

so,
1- do you really think it is necessary for someone to post EVERY SINGLE minut detail about the company?

No. I think it is necessary for someone to not deliberately pick and choose facts to support their conclusion in the face of contradictory facts. That is intellectual dishonesty. For instance, if your conclusion is that Halliburton is bad, you are free to point out all of their mistakes. But you cannot simply omit the good you are aware of in order to drive home that conclusion.

2- if i posted EVERY SINGLE minut detail do you think ppl would actually read it all? obvioulsy it would be a pretty big post, possibly even mulitple posts to insert every single thing, good and bad, one knows of a company. no one posts in this manner, including you.

You do not have to point out that the toilets are clean in the Halliburton corporate office, no.

farfromglorified

El_Kabong wrote:

not every party has a rape. it is common knowledge it MAY happen. no one thinks i MIGHT get taxed, it is a given

If it was actually a given, friend, I wouldn't be fighting against it.

angelica

farfromglorified wrote:

What have I told you about assumptions? What possibility have you not considered? When I tell you that I carry a gun, yet at the same time tell you that force is wrong, you sense a contradiction. But it is not a contradiction because you've forgotten to ask me a very important question.

The contradiction I see is that you are battling over the idea of self/other inside, and you're confusing your unacknowledged inner battle and making it manifest outside of you.

Did you know that the unconscious does not judge?

Did you know that the unconscious accepts exactly "as is"--it records everything.

Do you realise that the unconscious does not understand the difference between self and other?

Do you realise that if you call someone a moron: "you are a moron", the subconscious hears "you are a moron", just as though someone else called YOU a moron?

That is the premise that affirmations are based on.

The vast majority of who you are does not differentiate between self and other--the struggle you see is your inner apparently unconscious world playing out all around you--you look through those filters you've created, probably based on the power struggles of your life, which all of us have scripts pertaining to.

farfromglorified

angelica wrote:

The contradiction I see is that you are battling over the idea of self/other inside, and you're confusing your unacknowledged inner battle and making it manifest outside of you.

Sigh.

Did you know that the unconscious does not judge?

Yes.

Did you know that the unconscious accepts exactly "as is"--it records everything.

Yes.

Do you realise that the unconscious does not understand the difference between self and other?

Yes.

Do you realise that if you call someone a moron: "you are a moron", the subconscious hears "you are a moron", just as though someone else called YOU a moron?

Sure.

That is the premise that affirmations are based on.

The vast majority of who you are does not differentiate between self and other--the struggle you see is your inner apparently unconscious world playing out all around you--you look through those filters you've created, probably based on the power struggles of your life, which all of us have scripts pertaining to.

Sigh.

Don't make me just tell you. It spoils the fun for me.

Think

angelica

farfromglorified wrote:

Sigh.



Yes.



Yes.



Yes.



Sure.



Sigh.

Don't make me just tell you. It spoils the fun for me.

Think

I'm tunnel visioned...I present my own agenda, and wait for you to decide to present your own. I can't stand those questions...I deliberately totally avoid them...they hint of power struggles for me.

farfromglorified

angelica wrote:

I'm tunnel visioned...I present my own agenda, and wait for you to decide to present your own. I can't stand those questions...I deliberately totally avoid them...they hint of power struggles for me.

Ok -- I'm not trying to upset you or make you uncomfortable. I'll try to meet you in the middle here. If this still bothers you, let me know.

Let's say I'm at the ATM. Let's say you walk up to me and grab my hand and demand money. Let's say I then pull a gun on you. What's your reaction and why?

Let's say I'm at the ATM. Let's say you walk up to me and grab my hand and demand money. Let's say I then pull a loaf of bread on you. What's your reaction and why?

These are not loaded questions.

angelica

farfromglorified wrote:

Ok -- I'm not trying to upset you or make you uncomfortable. I'll try to meet you in the middle here. If this still bothers you, let me know.

Let's say I'm at the ATM. Let's say you walk up to me and grab my hand and demand money. Let's say I then pull a gun on you. What's your reaction and why?

Let's say I'm at the ATM. Let's say you walk up to me and grab my hand and demand money. Let's say I then pull a loaf of bread on you. What's your reaction and why?

These are not loaded questions.

The part that annoys me is where someone tells me how to think: "check your premises". I appreciate you changing your approach, and for your sensitivity.

Back to the ATM. The problem is that 95% or more of the population does not realise that their unconscious issues play out around them as "fate", therefore you actually unconsciously draw to you the exact situations and so on to create the other person, gun and ATM. You become a victim of your own thought patterns, which become real.

I have a ton of personal experience with this....for example, it's not usually great running around with the idea "men are pigs". Yikes, imagine the fate I ran up against! I also have experience with breaking the thought patterns, and changing my experiences. Life is intuitive and PERFECTLY synchronised.

“The psychological rule says that when an inner situation is not made conscious, it happens outside as fate. That is to say, when the individual remains undivided and does not become conscious of his inner opposite, the world must perforce act out the conflict and be torn into opposing halves.” --Jung

farfromglorified

angelica wrote:

The part that annoys me is where someone tells me how to think: "check your premises". I appreciate you changing your approach, and for your sensitivity.

That's fair. I'm not trying to tell you how to think though. There is an unspoken assumption you have about me and my gun. It's the same assumption anyone would make, and the assumption is its only purpose and the only reason I own a gun. I'm simply trying to point you towards it.

Back to the ATM. The problem is that 95% or more of the population does not realise that their unconscious issues play out around them as "fate", therefore you actually unconsciously draw to you the exact situations and so on to create the other person, gun and ATM. You become a victim of your own thought patterns, which become real.

I have a ton of personal experience with this....for example, it's not usually great running around with the idea "men are pigs". Yikes, imagine the fate I ran up against! I also have experience with breaking the thought patterns, and changing my experiences. Life is intuitive and PERFECTLY synchronised.

“The psychological rule says that when an inner situation is not made conscious, it happens outside as fate. That is to say, when the individual remains undivided and does not become conscious of his inner opposite, the world must perforce act out the conflict and be torn into opposing halves.” --Jung

I agree with all of this.

El_Kabong

farfromglorified wrote:

Ok, then don't pay it.

if it were that easy...if you dislike your taxes so much don't pay them. see how that works? it's not realistic. i dislike our tax money being wasted on wars that are not needed let alone bonuses that aren't deserved. it reeks of cronyism and looting to me.

farfromglorified wrote:

Actually, I was that kid once. My dad told me to cut the grass. I demanded payment. My dad smiled at said he'd pay $50 to do it. I agreed. He then told me that he was deducting my share of the rent and food. This left me with $5. I was pissed, so I went out and mowed my name in the lawn. He gave me $.05 and told me I could go to bed without dinner. That, my friend, is justice.

ok, then why are you agaisnt me saying they don't deserve a bonus? it is my opinion, i don't feel they deserve it given their actions just as your dad thought yuo only deserved $0.05

farfromglorified wrote:

Those are your issues? Then why not fight against the organization that grants no-bid contracts? Are you going to primarily blame Halliburton for accepting that contract?

i do. i also think the organization that grants these contracts and halliburton are comingled. i'm not blaming them for taking it as much as being deceptive and stealing, then being rewarded. just as i'm upset rumsfeld's gilead science got that huge contract for tamiflu, which we see was all hype.

farfromglorified wrote:

You're being manipulative by pretending that's all I said.

do you post in this manner you are asking me to post in? no, you don't. so, why does this only apply to me? i am not saying 'here's all you need ot know about this subject!' for that matter i could say 'ffg's business sacrifices babies!' if anyone accepts that simply b/c they read it here they are idiots. jsut as when i see someone post something i am interested in i look more up on it. some work has to be done by the individual person. if you wish to counterpoint anything i say by posting some good to outweigh the bad then fine, by all means...jsut don't force me to do it for you. hey, you're holding a gun to my head telling me how to post! lol

farfromglorified wrote:

No. I think it is necessary for someone to not deliberately pick and choose facts to support their conclusion in the face of contradictory facts. That is intellectual dishonesty. For instance, if your conclusion is that Halliburton is bad, you are free to point out all of their mistakes. But you cannot simply omit the good you are aware of in order to drive home that conclusion.

as i said, feel free to point out the good. to me the bad of halliburton (overcharging, fraudulent, violating US law by doing business w/ terrorist nations like iran, iraq (under oil for food and other things), syria and other places they know are violating human rights. i am not saying 'no good exists!' i am curious why you don't demand this method of posting for someone like miller? why not demand he post some good things muslims have done in the world? why not demand posters mention the good the aclu has done? if i post about israel attacking lebanon do you seriously want me to devote space to the good they've done?

just remember i am never claiming my post to be the definitive info on whatever the post is on.

farfromglorified

El_Kabong wrote:

if it were that easy...if you dislike your taxes so much don't pay them. see how that works? it's not realistic. i dislike our tax money being wasted on wars that are not needed let alone bonuses that aren't deserved. it reeks of cronyism and looting to me.

The point was that it isn't that easy. Your system has made it impossible. Your system is the one that enables cronyism and looting.

ok, then why are you agaisnt me saying they don't deserve a bonus? it is my opinion, i don't feel they deserve it given their actions just as your dad thought yuo only deserved $0.05

Because they did a better job than I did. Get it?

i do. i also think the organization that grants these contracts and halliburton are comingled. i'm not blaming them for taking it as much as being deceptive and stealing, then being rewarded. just as i'm upset rumsfeld's gilead science got that huge contract for tamiflu, which we see was all hype.

Ok. I just hope you recognize this goes deeper than Skeltor (Donald Rumsfeld) and his cohorts.

do you post in this manner you are asking me to post in?

Yes.

no, you don't. so, why does this only apply to me? i am not saying 'here's all you need ot know about this subject!'

You are when you say this:

"i don't think that list of abuses (and it is far from a complete list) does not a "great job" make"

for that matter i could say 'ffg's business sacrifices babies!' if anyone accepts that simply b/c they read it here they are idiots. jsut as when i see someone post something i am interested in i look more up on it. some work has to be done by the individual person. if you wish to counterpoint anything i say by posting some good to outweigh the bad then fine, by all means...jsut don't force me to do it for you. hey, you're holding a gun to my head telling me how to post! lol

I've said numerous times that you have the right to post anything you'd like. You do, however, have to deal with the consequences of others who choose to do the same.

as i said, feel free to point out the good. to me the bad of halliburton (overcharging, fraudulent, violating US law by doing business w/ terrorist nations like iran, iraq (under oil for food and other things), syria and other places they know are violating human rights. i am not saying 'no good exists!' i am curious why you don't demand this method of posting for someone like miller? why not demand he post some good things muslims have done in the world? why not demand posters mention the good the aclu has done? if i post about israel attacking lebanon do you seriously want me to devote space to the good they've done?

I do demand it from miller. Miller, to my knowledge, has never called me into a thread.

just remember i am never claiming my post to be the definitive info on whatever the post is on.

Ok.

Skitch Patterson

on the flipside of this arguement...


hmm... Ford Shows up on BOTH lists...

http://www.forbes.com/corporatecitizenship/2006/07/10/leadership-corporate-citizenship-cx_intern_0711quietersidephilanthropy.html

Affroman

I haven't read through all of the posts but I'd like to add something about Wal-mart.

On top of the minimum wage scandals and what not, Wal-Mart is also both terrible and good for the U.S. Economy. While it alone may accumulate for a large sum of productive business and general employment it indirectly affects hundreds and thousands of companies. Wal-Mart is notorious for its ability to pigeon-hole its vendors into selling their product at lower prices with a gurantee of large volume sale. However this makes a large number of successful small-to-medium size businesses to keel over because of their inability to provide a product to a mass economy. In short it allows large manufacturers to continue to incraese volume and productivity while driving middlemen and small-to-medium size business into the ground. Sounds like a little "too" much capitalism to me.

angelica

farfromglorified wrote:

That's fair. I'm not trying to tell you how to think though. There is an unspoken assumption you have about me and my gun. It's the same assumption anyone would make, and the assumption is its only purpose and the only reason I own a gun. I'm simply trying to point you towards it.

You might be assuming about my unspoken assumption. What are you "hearing" as my assumption? I'd love to find the missing piece. Oh, and I didn't particularly feel you are being domineering with me ever. I don't like any implication that any miscommunication is automatically with me and with "my" flawed premise. Although I can understand coming off as condescending.

I agree with all of this.

I'm actually completely shocked that you are agreeing, here.

Maybe it's the assumption part that needs to be cleared up, then.

farfromglorified

angelica wrote:

You might be assuming about my unspoken assumption. What are you "hearing" as my assumption? I'd love to find the missing piece. Oh, and I didn't particularly feel you are being domineering with me ever. I don't like any implication that any miscommunication is automatically with me and with "my" flawed premise. Although I can understand coming off as condescending.

I'm not "assuming" about your assumption. I know it is there.

I'm actually completely shocked that you are agreeing, here.

Why? Because I carry a gun?

Maybe it's the assumption part that needs to be cleared up, then.

Yes.