Alright, it would be easy to respond to this by getting angry, but let's take the high road ...
I do not carry a "White Man's Burden", I am not John Travolta. I just haven't had much handed to me, I don't think I come from a background that was particularly privledged. If you cannot understand where I am coming from, then maybe you are being as close-minded as the very people you label as "the problem".
There are other levels of structure that can make being white and a man harder living...for example being poor can attribute to your difficult background. Being poor and white is not the same as rich and black i can agree with that, but you characterized me as bashing white men as a fall back, when that's not what i was doing. I got mad, and I'm sorry. However, in general, when people on this board complain in the way that you were (I'm looking at Miller, Know1, and Farfrom as close 1000ths next to tremorvoid) it often is in the John Travolta form.
There are other levels of structure that can make being white and a man harder living...for example being poor can attribute to your difficult background. Being poor and white is not the same as rich and black i can agree with that, but you characterized me as bashing white men as a fall back, when that's not what i was doing. I got mad, and I'm sorry. However, in general, when people on this board complain in the way that you were (I'm looking at Miller, Know1, and Farfrom as close 1000ths next to tremorvoid) it often is in the John Travolta form.
Don't look at me kid. You brought this race/sex issue into the conversation and I simply asked you to back it up. And you did so by telling me about band-aids.
There are other levels of structure that can make being white and a man harder living...for example being poor can attribute to your difficult background. Being poor and white is not the same as rich and black i can agree with that, but you characterized me as bashing white men as a fall back, when that's not what i was doing. I got mad, and I'm sorry. However, in general, when people on this board complain in the way that you were (I'm looking at Miller, Know1, and Farfrom as close 1000ths next to tremorvoid) it often is in the John Travolta form.
Because I don't think race should be used as an excuse for having a tough life (excluding those times where racism really did victimize someone), I try not to do it myself. Indeed, there were times when being a man (to put the focus on gender now) DID probably provide me with an advantage, although those times are in the past ... I do think that I am a lucky guy in many ways, but I cannot help but get defensive when someone ascribes something to me that isn't the case, knowing nothing about my background and experiences. farfromgloried was correct in identifying this as an "-ism" ... It is making assumptions based on race, gender, etc. I think hard work has played a big role in my life, a bigger role than what I look like (I don't look like much, incidentally ... .
Even in this situation where two people of different identities agree where they come from and how they've come to learn that 2+2=4 are likely markedly different. As such, since it is part of the context it's probably important to know
But 2+2 still equals four. See? The "context" you speak of does not change the fact. That's what makes it a fact.
Identity is fluid and ever-changing. For you when at work you are the boss right, you identify as the boss and "man in charge". When you go home you are farfromglorified. Similarly a persons ethnic (racial) make-up, gender, sex, etc. can shift from second-to-second.
For something to be "fluid" and "ever-changing" it must be measurable. That means that it had one identity and now has a new one and tomorrow has another one. Each on would be a fact of identity. You can't have it both ways. You can't say something has an identity and that there are no facts.
Similarly, you cannot hope to change sexist/racist culture by validating the mindset that leads to it. If you tell a man that his perceptions define the people he sees, and that reality is nothing more than a slave "to the moment", why are you surprised when that man then tells you that the black person on COPS is representative of black people everywhere? Such a man lives by your credo.
Racism is destroyed by the knowledge that a black man is an individual, an inviolable absolute. He is not his neighbor, he is not your perception of his skin color. He is a man with a mind and a body of his own.
Sexism is destroyed by the knowledge that a woman is an individual, an invioable absolute. She is not her mother, nor is she your perception of her sex. She is a woman with a mind and a body of her own.
Yeah i guess you win, but that statement could be argued.
Certainly. It is argued by rendering the word 'fact' as meaningless.
it may help you understand better why it was written and the way it was written in.
Certainly. But why and how it was written will not affect the chemical makeup of the substance I am researching.
EXACTLY!!! You got it...so now you're starting to see how the structure works!!!
Then why are you supporting it by telling people that "There are no facts my friend, they are all incomplete, they are all shaped by the dominant and subversive trends of society at a current moment."
A "dominant and subversive trend" cannot violate the fact that a black man is an individual.
Alright I'll add that in, I was just trying to make it simple.
1+1+1=5 isn't very simple.
You love simplifying my arguements, to genes, or rote structural determinism, when that is clearly not what I say. Do you want overhead cost, and inventors cost added in fine, but in the end it's still exploitation.
You simplify your own arguments. Here are your words again:
"costs 1 unit in materials to make a widget, you pay your worker 3 units to make it, and you turn around and sell it for 6 units for a profit of 2. You certainly exploited the worker, and the environment from which you took the material. That's easy to see. "
What you say above is that 3 + 1 = 4, 4 < 6, 6-4 = 2. 2 = exploitation. What you forgot is that 2 = my mind's contribution. Hence the formula becomes:
3+1+2=6
6=6
6-6=0
0=exploitation.
Same as you would have me do with Ayn Rand. It's a 30 page article, and it provides more nuance than I can in a messageboard argument, I thought you'd like that in your constant struggle for objectivity. I gave you the basic premise of the article and how it has influenced my thinking (the same way Rand has influenced or reinforced yours), and thus was giving you the context for my argument. You really have a problem with learning from others it seems unless you do it yourself.
But how can I appreciate those concepts without understanding your context???
What? You totally missed my point. At an Ani concert being white and male is not a position of privilege. You are not in the majority, and, having been to 2 myself, I am treated differently b/c of it.
And you missed mine. Issues of the "minority" or "majority" don't necessarily mean you'll be treated differently. Get it?
I didn't say to blame yourself...you are so freaking self-centered it's not even funny.
I'm very self-centered. It's not intended to be funny.
I just said have compassion and understand that you were born with certain privileges that other people do not enjoy. As a result of that and your good choices you've lived a better life, I just want you to recognize that.
Ok. I'll accept that. We were born with certain privileges. And because of choices we do live different lives.
WTF? Huh. You're weird.
Very.
Symptoms of what farfrom? Say it...say it...ok we'll start slowly S-T-R-U-C-T-U-R-E, that spells structure. A society that privileges white maleness is a symptom if it's STRUCTURE. The very thing you deny existing.
That S-T-R-U-C-T-U-R-E you mention is not something I deny. It is something you mislabel. It is the structure that teaches people that what they wish is what is, rather than what they see.
i disagree wholeheartedly. unless we start at 0, and that means erasing histories of opression, there is no way for lassez faire capitalism to work in the democratic way you mention.
no this is where it falls off b/c you would have to erase histories of opression and dominance by rich white men for her plan to work...it can't happen.
Erasing histories of oppression is quite easy. Toss out your laws, your contract, your deeds, your guns. Do it now. It's all I'm asking for.
That's subjective.
That is subjective.
If you are paying more than what they give then you shouldn't be turning a profit.
Again, you forgot about me.
So conceiving a coffee shop is worth that much? That's a bit elitist.
Not when that conception and the actions from it makes the rest of it possible.
When has the shift to neo-liberal economics EVER meant better stores and better labor? It has always meant cheaper labor and similar prices.
Neo-liberal economics is a political system based on the rule of force. And that will never mean better stores and better labor.
Lassez faire capitalism will ask you to pay value for value. And that means you get out what you put in. Will lassez faire capitalism mean that some people who currently make $6/hour then make $2/hour. Certainly, assuming that their labor is worth $2 rather than $6.
Wal-Mart contributes to the structure. If you want me to break it down into simplistic (this is way causal but for the time being follow) terms think of this. Underpaid Wal-Mart worker has a kid she can't afford to live in the burbs with the richies. Sends kid to shitty inner-city school that you'd like to abandon for lassez faire capitalist schools where the richest get to go to the best schools and the poor go to the poor (oh wait that's what's happening today pretty much). Kid gets shitty education, can't go to college, has to work at Wal-Mart. Now obviously more stuff goes into that equation, but Wal-Mart certainly has it's hand in the underprivileged cookie jar...they need a willing workforce.
You know you're speaking to someone who didn't go to college? And that I don't work at Wal-Mart? And that I make more than my mother (the only worker in my household) ever did?
You're right, though. Wal-Mart does need a willing workforce. I'd be more than happy if a company like Wal-Mart could no longer find one. And that's why I support breaking any chain that leaves a kid in a situation where he's destined to work there. And the first chain to be broken is the concept held by so many is that he's destined to work there, and that he has no ability or opportunity to change that.
Because I don't think race should be used as an excuse for having a tough life (excluding those times where racism really did victimize someone), I try not to do it myself. Indeed, there were times when being a man (to put the focus on gender now) DID probably provide me with an advantage, although those times are in the past ... I do think that I am a lucky guy in many ways, but I cannot help but get defensive when someone ascribes something to me that isn't the case, knowing nothing about my background and experiences. farfromgloried was correct in identifying this as an "-ism" ... It is making assumptions based on race, gender, etc. I think hard work has played a big role in my life, a bigger role than what I look like (I don't look like much, incidentally ... .
haha...i'm sure you look like something . What i am ultimately arguing for is that people become conscious that they received different treatment throughout their lives based on historical inequities. Are they changing? In part, yes. In part no, because minorities are not physically told that they cannot be a part of modern society it makes racism harder to mark...Thus it makes it easier to blame poor black people for their lack of hard work, even though 25-35% of blacks and latina/os vs. 7-12% whites (these are terms that i do not believe to be scientifically evident but socially evident) live in poverty. How can this not be based in some part on these historical inequities, and the 150 year head start upper-class white men had on minorities? Sure we have individual choice, and we can work hard, but we are all brought up in different starting positions. Additionally depending on where you are from personally different identity markers (class/gender/sexual preference/age, etc.) may have been more privileged than others. That's why I argue that the structure and individual agent are in constant interplay in deciding one's life choices.
No. I'm saying that you've assumed that it is in my character to either grant or receive such a privilege only because I'm a white male.
in American society being white and male does, even if unwanted or unwarranted, grant you privileges. They are often unspoken, and often operate in the unconscious but talk to Angelica if you want an viewpoint of someone who is not white and male on the subject. In an American society when we've been told over and over that everyone's equal people actually believe it even though that has never been the case.
"Let me turn away from the global power struggles to personal ones. In my own personal history I can say that power has been of central importance. My childhood and adolescence was replete with power struggles between myself and my siblings, parents and teachers. In the early days of my adult career I was mighty proud of my accomplishments. I had written several successful books, I had a thriving psychotherapy and lecturing practice and a modest but secure financial position. It seemed to me-and others similarly fortunate-that with a little hard work anybody could achieve similar success.
What I didn't realize is that I was the privileged white, male child of educated parents in a land and time of plenty. I didn't realize that many other people worked twice as hard as I did, and didn't succeed at all. I didn't know that people, just as smart, just as hardworking as myself went through life unable to keep up with their basic needs and spent their "golden" years in abject poverty-if they lived that long. I happened to be on the top one tenth of one percent levels of privilege in a global pyramid which funneled its resources in my direction, and I was not aware of it.
I did not at the time see how much of what I had accomplished was based on resources which were mostly not my own. In other words; my power was not really mine. It had a large portion of its source elsewhere, and I had mistakenly assumed that it came solely from me. I wasn't as entitled to the feelings of mastery and power that I enjoyed as I believed. As I became more aware of the realities of my position on the "ladder of success," I had more and more difficulty when trying to assert my privilege because I saw that my power was based on the powerlessness of others."
http://www.emotional-literacy.com/osp1.htm These are the words of Claude Steiner, one of the frontrunners of the branch of psychology that charts human interactions and their effects.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
People in this country believe in the effectiveness of our system of government to distribute power more or less evenly among its citizens. After all, great accumulations of wealth are prevented by antitrust laws, graduated income tax, inheritance taxes. Corporations are accountable to the people and are required to open their books and must hold stockholders' meetings. Politicians are subjected to public scrutiny regularly, and presidents have a strict rules about campaign spending and can't hold office for more than two terms. All of these mechanisms are examples of the many guarantees we have that prevent any one person or group of people from accumulating excessive power. We know that some people are more powerful than others, but we believe that the differences are not large. After all, we are a democracy where everyone is equal under the law. There may be huge imbalances of power in other countries, but not in ours.
As one highway patrolman once put it to me in response to my clever arguments designed to talk myself out of a ticket, "I'm sorry, Mr. Steiner, but if the chairman of Exxon or the president of the United States drove past me over the speed limit, I would have to give him a ticket just like you. Everyone has the same rights in this country. That's what democracy is all about."
As the officer spoke, I realized that he actually believed what he was saying. Many other people do, too. The enormous imbalances of power existing in the United States were truly hidden to him. Had I asked him whether he believed that there exists a power elite that makes most of the major decisions that affect us, he would think I was paranoid. That lesson in the mythology of power cost me eighty dollars.
Yet there is such a thing as a power elite: a group of men-most of them not elected politicians-who silently affect our lives without any knowledge on our part and who most definitely don't get speeding tickets though they manage to move around very swiftly indeed.
The literature documenting this fact is extensive. Books such as Power, Inc., The Abuse of Power, The Power Elite, The Power Broker, The Bohemian Grove and Other Retreats, America Inc., Who Owns and Operates the United States, to name a few, tell in detail who belongs to this group, how it operates, how its members meet, how they make agreements, and how they affect our lives.
These men and a very few women understand how to bring about desired results in their dealings with others. In their personal relationships, in small-group gatherings, and when dealing with large groups of consumers, voters, opponents, or supporters, they use their knowledge of power and tend to get their way because they have a grasp of the variables and forces involved in the manipulation of people.
They are called the "power elite" by some, the "ruling class" by others, the "super-rich" by others. and just plain "rich folks" by yet others.
One major gap in our information about the super-powerful is that we tend to think of people who have power and money as one group of folks: the rich. Most of us think in terms of $100,000- to $200,000-a-year salaries, at the very most. But $200,000 a year is nothing to the super-rich. They think nothing of spending for a watch what most of us would not dream of spending for a car, or spend for an auto what you and I spend for a house. You and I may be awed by boxcar figures, but the super-rich are excited only by locomotives. That kind of wealth and power is as hard for you and me to grasp as the value of $1,000 was to understand when we were three years old. The amounts of money (and therefore power) which the executives of this country's major corporations play with is truly beyond the average person's grasp. Think of this: less than 5% of the top earners in this country earn the same as the lowest 85%.
Whether in our country or abroad, behind an Iron or Bamboo Curtain or in front of it, whether in monarchies, democracies, sheikdoms, or fascist countries, the super-powerful behave as if giving power to the people were a silly idea-not to be taken seriously, except in matters of little importance.
An example of the manner in which our most important affairs are run without our advice or consent by the super powerful was the Vietnam War. Most of what went on in that period of time was hidden from the American people. Millions who did not support the war were grossly deceived. Their sons were sent to die, driven insane, crippled, and forced to become indiscriminate killers. For many years, nothing could be done to stop the process. People's economic and financial resources were appropriated and used for an entirely senseless war. The few who rebelled against this outrage were persecuted, jailed, beaten, forced into exile, and made the victims of conspiracies aimed at destroying them. We ultimately had our democratic way on that particular issue and I remember distinctly when Nixon resigned and we thought that we had won!
Today in 2004 the almost identical pattern is being played out all over again in Iraq. Again most of what is going on is being hidden from the American people. Millions who did not support the war were grossly deceived. Their sons were sent to die, driven insane, crippled, and driven to become indiscriminate killers. People's economic and financial resources are being appropriated and used for an entirely senseless operation. Those who make the major economic and political decisions in the world will protect the power that they holds and silently, constantly, expand it whenever and wherever possible. The only difference between 30 years ago and today is that media, especially the Internet, are not as tightly controlled by the powerful. As a consequence the lies and other power abuses taking place are being intensely scrutinized and reported. Information in the hands of a democratic electorate can be a very antidote to the power abuse of the super powerful. "
El Kabong, I totally support the information you put forth in these threads. As psychologist Claude Steiner says: "The major antidote to powerlessness is collective action. The myth of powerlessness survives only as long as people don't organize to take power."
With forums such as this the processes of disinformation can be reversed. Information can spread like wildfire. We can connect and assert power to bring a more realistic balance considering the unfair power imbalances that surround us. I for one thank you for your efforts to inform. I see what you do, I feel your intent, and I value it very much.
I applaud you for presenting your view even when apparently others do not understand. It's okay if they don't--lack of understanding cannot diminish what you are doing. I am heartened that enough people do understand.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
Well put Angelica...on an even more basic level...have you ever:
1. Been forced to take classes in Home Economics b/c Business wasn't for you?
2. Been pulled over solely b/c of the color of your skin? (It happens I have a Mex-Am brother-in-law who is a NYC cop who was pulled over countless times b/c of his ethnicity and now, unfortunately does it himself)
3. Never seen a class/race/ethnic likeness as a celebrity (besides an athlete)?
4. Had a nickname regarding the color of your skin rooted in centuries of domination by another ethnicity?
5. Had a city flooded twice to rid it of the poor?
6. Had a person look at you and automatically asume that you cannot complete a task solely b/c of your gender?
7. Been denied access to a bar b/c of the way you dress which is stereotyped as bad?
8. Been held for hours at an airport b/c they were racial profiling?
9. Been afraid to go to the ATM?
10. Lived in a society that cares and upholds the sports that men are better equiped to play over those than women are better equiped to play?
11. Not received a coaching job b/c of your gender?
12. Been sexually harassed in the locker room b/c of your gender?
13. Been whistled at while walking down the street?
14. Had movies like Falling Down made lamenting about the fact that you were gaining voice in this country?
15. Had movies made like Remember the Titans that make it seem like integration was bad for 5 minutes?
16. Had anyone look at you and think to themselves or say aloud "your pretty smart for a black man" or "your pretty smart for a girl"
17. Lived in a country whre it was under the common assumption that you were the weaker sex, naturally more athletic and prone to violence?
18. Had to fight to be married?
19. Been degraded b/c of the sexual relationship you chose to engage in?
20. Been derogatorily referred to as a slut b/c you slept with multiple partners?
21. Didn't have daddy play ball with you in the backyard b/c he was playing catch with your big brother?
22. Not been able to get into a building b/c you were in a wheelchair?
23. Weren't believed in an argument with another person b/c of the color of your skin? (Check out bell hooks "killing rage" on this one)
I'm sure there are a million more examples of stuff that goes on that even people like farfrom have to admit is fucked up. This stuff happens on a daily basis, and it doesn't happen to everybody. So to say that it bothers you that race/gender/sexuality/age/disability is brought up in a way that shows your privilege is I think a disservice to those who have to overcome these daily assaults on their lives. Farfrom and reborn, I'm not saying that you actively pursue the domination of other people, in fact, I bet you are both very conscious of saying/doing racist, sexist, and homophobic things. However, that is not the case for the many others that exist in this society and to discount that is wrong.
in American society being white and male does, even if unwanted or unwarranted, grant you privileges. They are often unspoken, and often operate in the unconscious but talk to Angelica if you want an viewpoint of someone who is not white and male on the subject. In an American society when we've been told over and over that everyone's equal people actually believe it even though that has never been the case.
No...what you've been told is that everyone in America has an equal OPPORTUNITY. You can choose to wimper and whine about your race, gender or ethnicity...OR...you can get to work on realizing your dreams through the opportunity that this country affords. The choice is yours.
In other words...you can have a Bill Cosby type of attitude about race...or...you can have a Kanye West attitude about race.
MOSSAD NATO Alphabet Stations (E10)
High Traffic ART EZI FTJ JSR KPA PCD SYN ULX VLB YHF
Low Traffic CIO MIW
Non Traffic ABC BAY FDU GBZ HNC NDP OEM ROV TMS ZWL
El Kabong, I totally support the information you put forth in these threads. As psychologist Claude Steiner says: "The major antidote to powerlessness is collective action. The myth of powerlessness survives only as long as people don't organize to take power."
With forums such as this the processes of disinformation can be reversed. Information can spread like wildfire. We can connect and assert power to bring a more realistic balance considering the unfair power imbalances that surround us. I for one thank you for your efforts to inform. I see what you do, I feel your intent, and I value it very much.
I applaud you for presenting your view even when apparently others do not understand. It's okay if they don't--lack of understanding cannot diminish what you are doing. I am heartened that enough people do understand.
I love you, chica!!!
It's nice to hear replies like yours when you feel like you have to battle some here and get nowhere. It's just comforting to know that many here, like your self, do get what we are trying to do and don't see it as some kind of nefarious agenda. I agree you can't win them all no matter how hard you try but I'm not going to let the nay sayers take away from the good that I know can come from spreading information. For every one person who reads this info there are multiple friends to share it with and so the cycle goes.
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
No...what you've been told is that everyone in America has an equal OPPORTUNITY. You can choose to wimper and whine about your race, gender or ethnicity...OR...you can get to work on realizing your dreams through the opportunity that this country affords. The choice is yours.
In other words...you can have a Bill Cosby type of attitude about race...or...you can have a Kanye West attitude about race.
You're kidding right? So you think that you had an equal opportunity as George W. Bush to become president of the United States? NFW!!!! Wimpering and whining is not my goal, my goal is to raise the level of other consciousses so that one day we all do actually have an equal opportunity. Sure there is a large level of opportunity that begs for the individual to do stuff, but there is no way there is an equal opportunity for achievement in this country. You can't even try to argue that with a straight face. Since education is a key to opportunity equal opportunity would mean that everyone goes to schools with the same books, with similar ability teachers, and with an equal chance to get to the next level...that's a croc and you know it.
It's nice to hear replies like yours when you feel like you have to battle some here and get nowhere. It's just comforting to know that many here, like your self, do get what we are trying to do and don't see it as some kind of nefarious agenda. I agree you can't win them all no matter how hard you try but I'm not going to let the nay sayers take away from the good that I know can come from spreading information. For every one person who reads this info there are multiple friends to share it with and so the cycle goes.
Well said Abook...it is nice to know that there are people out there that care about others enough to be willing to relinquish their relative power in such a way as to facillitate change. I also bet that some of our biggest adversaries on the board actually change a little bit everytime we argue - as do we. That's the hope anyhow.
Well put Angelica...on an even more basic level...have you ever:
1. Been forced to take classes in Home Economics b/c Business wasn't for you?
2. Been pulled over solely b/c of the color of your skin? (It happens I have a Mex-Am brother-in-law who is a NYC cop who was pulled over countless times b/c of his ethnicity and now, unfortunately does it himself)
3. Never seen a class/race/ethnic likeness as a celebrity (besides an athlete)?
4. Had a nickname regarding the color of your skin rooted in centuries of domination by another ethnicity?
5. Had a city flooded twice to rid it of the poor?
6. Had a person look at you and automatically asume that you cannot complete a task solely b/c of your gender?
7. Been denied access to a bar b/c of the way you dress which is stereotyped as bad?
8. Been held for hours at an airport b/c they were racial profiling?
9. Been afraid to go to the ATM?
10. Lived in a society that cares and upholds the sports that men are better equiped to play over those than women are better equiped to play?
11. Not received a coaching job b/c of your gender?
12. Been sexually harassed in the locker room b/c of your gender?
13. Been whistled at while walking down the street?
14. Had movies like Falling Down made lamenting about the fact that you were gaining voice in this country?
15. Had movies made like Remember the Titans that make it seem like integration was bad for 5 minutes?
16. Had anyone look at you and think to themselves or say aloud "your pretty smart for a black man" or "your pretty smart for a girl"
17. Lived in a country whre it was under the common assumption that you were the weaker sex, naturally more athletic and prone to violence?
18. Had to fight to be married?
19. Been degraded b/c of the sexual relationship you chose to engage in?
20. Been derogatorily referred to as a slut b/c you slept with multiple partners?
21. Didn't have daddy play ball with you in the backyard b/c he was playing catch with your big brother?
22. Not been able to get into a building b/c you were in a wheelchair?
23. Weren't believed in an argument with another person b/c of the color of your skin? (Check out bell hooks "killing rage" on this one)
I'm sure there are a million more examples of stuff that goes on that even people like farfrom have to admit is fucked up. This stuff happens on a daily basis, and it doesn't happen to everybody. So to say that it bothers you that race/gender/sexuality/age/disability is brought up in a way that shows your privilege is I think a disservice to those who have to overcome these daily assaults on their lives. Farfrom and reborn, I'm not saying that you actively pursue the domination of other people, in fact, I bet you are both very conscious of saying/doing racist, sexist, and homophobic things. However, that is not the case for the many others that exist in this society and to discount that is wrong.
Great post.
To add:
I've also been orally sodomised at the age of five; I lost my virginity to rape at 16, not to mention innumerable date rapes through the years. And later throughout my life, had it pointed out by men how I brought such situations on myself (trust me, it's a sadly patriarchal world that can construe childhood sexual assault as being the fault of the victim). Considering at least 1 in 4 girls are sexually assaulted before adulthood, my daughter seems to have lost that particular power lottery, and was also a victim before her fifth birthday.
I've had my strong, healthy intuitive and emotional intelligences squashed, invalidated and minimised, compared to the accepted logical form of intelligence prefered in our patriarchal society.
I lost a friend to a serial killer of prostitutes (yes, she was a prostitute). My childhood best friend currently runs an "escort agency". At my most powerless, I almost became an escort myself, as a way to achieve power to pay my bills and to buy things that some take for granted like sheets for our beds.
Due to the way my valid sometimes considered strongly feminine types of intelligences ( emotional and intuitive) were shut down in this patriarchal society, I developed numerous psychiatric imbalances, including eating disorders, addictions, severe obsessive-compulsive disorder and ultimately bi-polar disorder. I've been a single mother of two children from different fathers, living in poverty on social assistance in severe states of mental unrest, while the fathers of my children lived in houses of their own and not in poverty.
I've had police officers in my home, supposedly keeping the peace when an out of control boyfriend was collecting his things, and I had the very officers begin to take my boyfriend's side against me. Another time, when a boyfriend was being escorted out of my home, the officers again turned on me, in that familiar "good ol' boy's club way" some of them have displayed regarding myself.
My stepsister who was sexually assaulted by a step father of hers at age sixteen and bore his child and was banished from the family thereafter, committed suicide last year. What kind of respectful equal opportunity society condones and turns a blind eye to such behaviour? In what kind of society do women find the lack of power to justify selling themselves and their children up the river for a warm bed and shelter in exchange for the abuses they must suffer?
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
No...what you've been told is that everyone in America has an equal OPPORTUNITY. You can choose to wimper and whine about your race, gender or ethnicity...OR...you can get to work on realizing your dreams through the opportunity that this country affords. The choice is yours.
In other words...you can have a Bill Cosby type of attitude about race...or...you can have a Kanye West attitude about race.
I have overcome disorder after disorder after disorder. I've risen beyond my life circumstances and I have found personal power for myself.
Because I've learned to self-actualise that does not change the fact that horrific imbalances and abuses of power exist all around us at all times.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
It's nice to hear replies like yours when you feel like you have to battle some here and get nowhere. It's just comforting to know that many here, like your self, do get what we are trying to do and don't see it as some kind of nefarious agenda. I agree you can't win them all no matter how hard you try but I'm not going to let the nay sayers take away from the good that I know can come from spreading information. For every one person who reads this info there are multiple friends to share it with and so the cycle goes.
I love you, too, Abook! When I keep in mind the saying "first they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win", progress may be closer than it sometimes appears.
With vision and heart, we will see thing others won't see. And It's precious and I support the beautiful people on this board who keep on working when it's challenging to our sensitivities--when it's sometimes downright ugly and stifling.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
You're kidding right? So you think that you had an equal opportunity as George W. Bush to become president of the United States? NFW!!!! Wimpering and whining is not my goal, my goal is to raise the level of other consciousses so that one day we all do actually have an equal opportunity. Sure there is a large level of opportunity that begs for the individual to do stuff, but there is no way there is an equal opportunity for achievement in this country. You can't even try to argue that with a straight face. Since education is a key to opportunity equal opportunity would mean that everyone goes to schools with the same books, with similar ability teachers, and with an equal chance to get to the next level...that's a croc and you know it.
No, I'm not kidding. Yes, I do think I had an equal opportunity to become President of the United States. Not every success story in the United States started with an individual who was born with a silver spoon in their mouth. You sound like someone who thrives on feeling sorry themselves, and who excels at blaming their past failures on the fact that you weren't born a rich, white male. Don't even start with the education argument either, plenty of successful people in this world didn't have much of an education. Nothing I said was a crock, and you know it. If you want to sit around feeling sorry for yourself, then go ahead...but when you're old, grumpy and have nothing to show for your time here on Earth, maybe you'll start to realize that you should have helped yourself in this world, instead of directing all of your bitterness and hatred towards people who were dealt a better lot in life than yourself. None of us choose the life we were born into, so quit acting like the white man is holding you down, and go do what you want with your life. Life isn't fair, freaking deal with it. Do you think Condi Rice got to where she is because she blamed whitey for all of her problems? What about Colin Powell? What about Bill Cosby, or Oprah, or any other number of minority activists, artists and leaders? People like yourself enjoy wallowing in your own self pity. I feel sorry for you. You'll never amount to what you want to be, and you'll always find someone to blame for it but yourself. What a waste of life.
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I have overcome disorder after disorder after disorder. I've risen beyond my life circumstances and I have found personal power for myself.
Because I've learned to self-actualise that does not change the fact that horrific imbalances and abuses of power exist all around us at all times.
I never said that horrific imbalances and abuses of power didn't exist all around us, did I? However, you just proved my point. Even though those balances DO exist (and not JUST with the "white man" *Gasp!*), you somehow found a way to overcome them and gain personal power for yourself. You should be applauded, you have the right attitude and motivation.
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Its funny that these corporations supported both Republican and Demicratic parties last election... corperations are the new buracracy of America and have been for a while but not as bad as today. Money walks and talks. These corp.s spend hundreds of millions dollars annually towards advertisements, which are usually Americas favorites. Expecially Coca Cola and Ford try to almost give the impression that they are American culture. People give into the impression which is the sad part, but then again without a soul and sense of being is the saddest of it all. Yeah, I drink cokes and I used to own a ThunderBird, but I never say "Hey there Julie, did you see that new coke comercial? It was pretty clever... what with the penguins and such." Corporations really have not only the U.S. but the whole demecratic world by the balls. I was in FrankFurt, Germany and all around Japan last year and ppl over there just find anything popular in the U.S. as prophets of Jesus . Including shitty bands of the U.S. Its like they have no choice but to like any shit thats popualur in the U.S. This is the same as highly played and heavely reserched commercial of these corperations.... Make your stuff so popular that ppl feel like shit if they dont buy into it. I mean if you think about it what is Nike shoes???? A shoe with the popular check, Only became popular cause of adds.
No, I'm not kidding. Yes, I do think I had an equal opportunity to become President of the United States. Not every success story in the United States started with an individual who was born with a silver spoon in their mouth. You sound like someone who thrives on feeling sorry themselves, and who excels at blaming their past failures on the fact that you weren't born a rich, white male. Don't even start with the education argument either, plenty of successful people in this world didn't have much of an education. Nothing I said was a crock, and you know it. If you want to sit around feeling sorry for yourself, then go ahead...but when you're old, grumpy and have nothing to show for your time here on Earth, maybe you'll start to realize that you should have helped yourself in this world, instead of directing all of your bitterness and hatred towards people who were dealt a better lot in life than yourself. None of us choose the life we were born into, so quit acting like the white man is holding you down, and go do what you want with your life. Life isn't fair, freaking deal with it. Do you think Condi Rice got to where she is because she blamed whitey for all of her problems? What about Colin Powell? What about Bill Cosby, or Oprah, or any other number of minority activists, artists and leaders? People like yourself enjoy wallowing in your own self pity. I feel sorry for you. You'll never amount to what you want to be, and you'll always find someone to blame for it but yourself. What a waste of life.
Actually I'm a 3rd year PhD student at the University of Maryland. I come from a lower class, christian family of 8 in upstate NY. I went to community college, I earned a scholarship and went to a private school got my bachelors, got my master's at UMD, and here I am. I've lived the American Dream, but for every one of me there's a bunch more of not me's. I see it everytime I go home. In W's world that is really not the case, it's not even close. If W didn't get to be prez he would have run another company into the ground, or he would've been blowing coke out at the ranch or something.
First of all Colin Powell is just as irish as he is black so really he's kinda white. Secondly for every Colin, Condi, Oprah, and Bill there's hundreds of thousands that are left behind. That's how the system works it gets us to believe that anyone can make it, but look around at all the people in power and tell me it isn't skewed in a certain direction. How many black presidents have we had? Women? Outwardly gay? How many minority owners of sports teams, major corporations, heads of schools, etc. do we have? To suggest equal opportunity would be to suggest that white men are naturally better at business, and leading companies which is kind of ridiculous.
Actually I'm a 3rd year PhD student at the University of Maryland. I come from a lower class, christian family of 8 in upstate NY. I went to community college, I earned a scholarship and went to a private school got my bachelors, got my master's at UMD, and here I am. I've lived the American Dream, but for every one of me there's a bunch more of not me's. I see it everytime I go home. In W's world that is really not the case, it's not even close. If W didn't get to be prez he would have run another company into the ground, or he would've been blowing coke out at the ranch or something.
Oh, so you DID make it in life?! Okay. Well, I don't know what to say then. It seems like everyone in this forum who is saying that certain people like themselves are so disadvantaged, somehow, have managed to do fine for themselves. I don't know what to tell you about the other "not me's". Have you ever thought that maybe some people in this world just simply don't have your aspirations or goals, or simply don't care?!?! You do realize that there is plenty of "white trash" in this world too, right? Plenty of poor white people? Uneducated white people?
Secondly for every Colin, Condi, Oprah, and Bill there's hundreds of thousands that are left behind. That's how the system works it gets us to believe that anyone can make it, but look around at all the people in power and tell me it isn't skewed in a certain direction. How many black presidents have we had? Women? Outwardly gay? How many minority owners of sports teams, major corporations, heads of schools, etc. do we have? To suggest equal opportunity would be to suggest that white men are naturally better at business, and leading companies which is kind of ridiculous.
So being outwardly gay, or female, or a minority is a good pre-requisite for a political position? How does that make anymore sense than electing someone as president simply because they're white? Shouldn't the best candidate get the position, regardless of race, gender or sexuality? I won't argue the lack of minorities as president...the record speaks for itself...but that's about it. We have plenty of minorities running sports teams, corporations, heads of schools, etc. You name it. Judges, politicians, athletes, actors, whatever...
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Oh, so you DID make it in life?! Okay. Well, I don't know what to say then. It seems like everyone in this forum who is saying that certain people like themselves are so disadvantaged, somehow, have managed to do fine for themselves. I don't know what to tell you about the other "not me's". Have you ever thought that maybe some people in this world just simply don't have your aspirations or goals, or simply don't care?!?! You do realize that there is plenty of "white trash" in this world too, right? Plenty of poor white people? Uneducated white people?
And you asked ME if I was joking?!?! LOL!!! Are you serious with THIS statement?!?!
So being outwardly gay, or female, or a minority is a good pre-requisite for a political position? How does that make anymore sense than electing someone as president simply because they're white? Shouldn't the best candidate get the position, regardless of race, gender or sexuality? I won't argue the lack of minorities as president...the record speaks for itself...but that's about it. We have plenty of minorities running sports teams, corporations, heads of schools, etc. You name it. Judges, politicians, athletes, actors, whatever...
Colin Powell is Irish look it up...
There are 2 minority owners in the NFL out of 32 teams (Minnesota, St. Louis)
There is 1 out of 30ish in the NBA (Charlotte)
There is 1 out of 30ish in MLB (LAA)
There are 0 out of 30ish in NHL
How is that plenty?
How many Asian lead actors and actresses can you name, latino/a, black (more yes but still not as many) vs. white actresses and actors. I agree with you about the best candidate, but at this rate are only white men good at being politicians...there is not an equal representation of the population in our government, not even close. Wouldn't equal representation reflect equal opportunity? Further, if there isn't equal representation amongst leadership positions how could the needs of minorities be met when their voice is not present?
You're kidding right? So you think that you had an equal opportunity as George W. Bush to become president of the United States? NFW!!!! Wimpering and whining is not my goal, my goal is to raise the level of other consciousses so that one day we all do actually have an equal opportunity. Sure there is a large level of opportunity that begs for the individual to do stuff, but there is no way there is an equal opportunity for achievement in this country. You can't even try to argue that with a straight face. Since education is a key to opportunity equal opportunity would mean that everyone goes to schools with the same books, with similar ability teachers, and with an equal chance to get to the next level...that's a croc and you know it.
Someone down the line in the Bush family tree worked hard at something, or got lucky, or came into a lot of money. They held onto it, used it to gain influence and became a rich and influential family. To the point where one of them became president. No most of us don't have the same opportunities as he had, the whole point is that if you work hard and don't squander your money away, your children have better opportunities than you had...and on down the line.
Someone down the line in the Bush family tree worked hard at something, or got lucky, or came into a lot of money. They held onto it, used it to gain influence and became a rich and influential family. To the point where one of them became president. No most of us don't have the same opportunities as he had, the whole point is that if you work hard and don't squander your money away, your children have better opportunities than you had...and on down the line.
i see your point but hailhail is trying to tell me that we all have equal opportunity.
These questions were from Ryan. I'll answer them as a white male.
1. Been forced to take classes in Home Economics b/c Business wasn't for you? Was never given the opportunity to take home ec. Jocks in high school aren't upposed to take classes like that.
2. Been pulled over solely b/c of the color of your skin? (It happens I have a Mex-Am brother-in-law who is a NYC cop who was pulled over countless times b/c of his ethnicity and now, unfortunately does it himself) Yup. Been hassled by the cops for being the only white guy in a very black part of Dover, Delaware.
3. Never seen a class/race/ethnic likeness as a celebrity (besides an athlete)? First, celebrities come in just about every class/race/ethnic and sexuality there is. I can't think of any segment of society not represented by a celebrity. Second, once you hold to the Human Rights idea that we are all equal regardless of class/race/ethnic or sexuality why would you care about the those qualities in anyone.
4. Had a nickname regarding the color of your skin rooted in centuries of domination by another ethnicity? Nope, but never known anyone else who did either.
5. Had a city flooded twice to rid it of the poor? Please give us the example here. Please back up how the flooding was caused by people.
6. Had a person look at you and automatically asume that you cannot complete a task solely b/c of your gender? Would you think I knew how to give a good bikini wax.
7. Been denied access to a bar b/c of the way you dress which is stereotyped as bad? Yeah, the bar had a sign saying no t-shirts. I've also been told to leave a bar in Baltimore because I was white.
8. Been held for hours at an airport b/c they were racial profiling? Been held at the boarder for long hair profiling.
9. Been afraid to go to the ATM? Nope. But I'm not stupid about it either.
10. Lived in a society that cares and upholds the sports that men are better equiped to play over those than women are better equiped to play? Funny how girls can join a boys sport league but not the other way round. Even when that sport is not offered as either a co-ed or all boys sport.
11. Not received a coaching job b/c of your gender? No but I only coach sports I'm knowledgeable in.
12. Been sexually harassed in the locker room b/c of your gender? Yeah, girls can be brutal on a guy when you visit them in their change room.
13. Been whistled at while walking down the street? Yeah.
14. Had movies like Falling Down made lamenting about the fact that you were gaining voice in this country? Never heard of the movie.
15. Had movies made like Remember the Titans that make it seem like integration was bad for 5 minutes? So was integration bad for more or less than 5 minutes. This question makes no sense.
16. Had anyone look at you and think to themselves or say aloud "your pretty smart for a black man" or "your pretty smart for a girl"? I've had people talk to me like I'm stupid when I used to stutter.
17. Lived in a country whre it was under the common assumption that you were the weaker sex, naturally more athletic and prone to violence? I live in a country where men get shit on by the court system in divorce and especially child custody cases.
18. Had to fight to be married?
19. Been degraded b/c of the sexual relationship you chose to engage in? Yeah.
20. Been derogatorily referred to as a slut b/c you slept with multiple partners? Yeah.
21. Didn't have daddy play ball with you in the backyard b/c he was playing catch with your big brother? No but I was dragged all around the country I live in as part of getting an older sister to dance recitals. I would have rather ha the option of playing ball at home with my friends.
22. Not been able to get into a building b/c you were in a wheelchair? Question 22 and you finally have me.
23. Weren't believed in an argument with another person b/c of the color of your skin? (Check out bell hooks "killing rage" on this one) No, but I've had court ordered family councellors not belive me because of my sex.
The only difference is that I will never allow myself to be a victim or think of myself as a victim. Life's not fair, I learned that a long time ago. I stopped feeling sorry for myself at about 14. You know the age you're supposed to start growing up at. You choose your own destiny in life. You can choose to bestow victimhood on people all you want but that sure seems to be a very sad and disrespectful way to think of them.
“One good thing about music,
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
Comments
Don't look at me kid. You brought this race/sex issue into the conversation and I simply asked you to back it up. And you did so by telling me about band-aids.
Because I don't think race should be used as an excuse for having a tough life (excluding those times where racism really did victimize someone), I try not to do it myself. Indeed, there were times when being a man (to put the focus on gender now) DID probably provide me with an advantage, although those times are in the past ... I do think that I am a lucky guy in many ways, but I cannot help but get defensive when someone ascribes something to me that isn't the case, knowing nothing about my background and experiences. farfromgloried was correct in identifying this as an "-ism" ... It is making assumptions based on race, gender, etc. I think hard work has played a big role in my life, a bigger role than what I look like (I don't look like much, incidentally ...
But 2+2 still equals four. See? The "context" you speak of does not change the fact. That's what makes it a fact.
For something to be "fluid" and "ever-changing" it must be measurable. That means that it had one identity and now has a new one and tomorrow has another one. Each on would be a fact of identity. You can't have it both ways. You can't say something has an identity and that there are no facts.
Similarly, you cannot hope to change sexist/racist culture by validating the mindset that leads to it. If you tell a man that his perceptions define the people he sees, and that reality is nothing more than a slave "to the moment", why are you surprised when that man then tells you that the black person on COPS is representative of black people everywhere? Such a man lives by your credo.
Racism is destroyed by the knowledge that a black man is an individual, an inviolable absolute. He is not his neighbor, he is not your perception of his skin color. He is a man with a mind and a body of his own.
Sexism is destroyed by the knowledge that a woman is an individual, an invioable absolute. She is not her mother, nor is she your perception of her sex. She is a woman with a mind and a body of her own.
Certainly. It is argued by rendering the word 'fact' as meaningless.
Certainly. But why and how it was written will not affect the chemical makeup of the substance I am researching.
Then why are you supporting it by telling people that "There are no facts my friend, they are all incomplete, they are all shaped by the dominant and subversive trends of society at a current moment."
A "dominant and subversive trend" cannot violate the fact that a black man is an individual.
1+1+1=5 isn't very simple.
You simplify your own arguments. Here are your words again:
"costs 1 unit in materials to make a widget, you pay your worker 3 units to make it, and you turn around and sell it for 6 units for a profit of 2. You certainly exploited the worker, and the environment from which you took the material. That's easy to see. "
What you say above is that 3 + 1 = 4, 4 < 6, 6-4 = 2. 2 = exploitation. What you forgot is that 2 = my mind's contribution. Hence the formula becomes:
3+1+2=6
6=6
6-6=0
0=exploitation.
But how can I appreciate those concepts without understanding your context???
And you missed mine. Issues of the "minority" or "majority" don't necessarily mean you'll be treated differently. Get it?
I'm very self-centered. It's not intended to be funny.
Ok. I'll accept that. We were born with certain privileges. And because of choices we do live different lives.
Very.
That S-T-R-U-C-T-U-R-E you mention is not something I deny. It is something you mislabel. It is the structure that teaches people that what they wish is what is, rather than what they see.
Erasing histories of oppression is quite easy. Toss out your laws, your contract, your deeds, your guns. Do it now. It's all I'm asking for.
That is subjective.
Again, you forgot about me.
Not when that conception and the actions from it makes the rest of it possible.
Neo-liberal economics is a political system based on the rule of force. And that will never mean better stores and better labor.
Lassez faire capitalism will ask you to pay value for value. And that means you get out what you put in. Will lassez faire capitalism mean that some people who currently make $6/hour then make $2/hour. Certainly, assuming that their labor is worth $2 rather than $6.
You know you're speaking to someone who didn't go to college? And that I don't work at Wal-Mart? And that I make more than my mother (the only worker in my household) ever did?
You're right, though. Wal-Mart does need a willing workforce. I'd be more than happy if a company like Wal-Mart could no longer find one. And that's why I support breaking any chain that leaves a kid in a situation where he's destined to work there. And the first chain to be broken is the concept held by so many is that he's destined to work there, and that he has no ability or opportunity to change that.
No. I'm saying that you've assumed that it is in my character to either grant or receive such a privilege only because I'm a white male.
haha...i'm sure you look like something
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Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
What I didn't realize is that I was the privileged white, male child of educated parents in a land and time of plenty. I didn't realize that many other people worked twice as hard as I did, and didn't succeed at all. I didn't know that people, just as smart, just as hardworking as myself went through life unable to keep up with their basic needs and spent their "golden" years in abject poverty-if they lived that long. I happened to be on the top one tenth of one percent levels of privilege in a global pyramid which funneled its resources in my direction, and I was not aware of it.
I did not at the time see how much of what I had accomplished was based on resources which were mostly not my own. In other words; my power was not really mine. It had a large portion of its source elsewhere, and I had mistakenly assumed that it came solely from me. I wasn't as entitled to the feelings of mastery and power that I enjoyed as I believed. As I became more aware of the realities of my position on the "ladder of success," I had more and more difficulty when trying to assert my privilege because I saw that my power was based on the powerlessness of others."
http://www.emotional-literacy.com/osp1.htm These are the words of Claude Steiner, one of the frontrunners of the branch of psychology that charts human interactions and their effects.
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Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
People in this country believe in the effectiveness of our system of government to distribute power more or less evenly among its citizens. After all, great accumulations of wealth are prevented by antitrust laws, graduated income tax, inheritance taxes. Corporations are accountable to the people and are required to open their books and must hold stockholders' meetings. Politicians are subjected to public scrutiny regularly, and presidents have a strict rules about campaign spending and can't hold office for more than two terms. All of these mechanisms are examples of the many guarantees we have that prevent any one person or group of people from accumulating excessive power. We know that some people are more powerful than others, but we believe that the differences are not large. After all, we are a democracy where everyone is equal under the law. There may be huge imbalances of power in other countries, but not in ours.
As one highway patrolman once put it to me in response to my clever arguments designed to talk myself out of a ticket, "I'm sorry, Mr. Steiner, but if the chairman of Exxon or the president of the United States drove past me over the speed limit, I would have to give him a ticket just like you. Everyone has the same rights in this country. That's what democracy is all about."
As the officer spoke, I realized that he actually believed what he was saying. Many other people do, too. The enormous imbalances of power existing in the United States were truly hidden to him. Had I asked him whether he believed that there exists a power elite that makes most of the major decisions that affect us, he would think I was paranoid. That lesson in the mythology of power cost me eighty dollars.
Yet there is such a thing as a power elite: a group of men-most of them not elected politicians-who silently affect our lives without any knowledge on our part and who most definitely don't get speeding tickets though they manage to move around very swiftly indeed.
The literature documenting this fact is extensive. Books such as Power, Inc., The Abuse of Power, The Power Elite, The Power Broker, The Bohemian Grove and Other Retreats, America Inc., Who Owns and Operates the United States, to name a few, tell in detail who belongs to this group, how it operates, how its members meet, how they make agreements, and how they affect our lives.
These men and a very few women understand how to bring about desired results in their dealings with others. In their personal relationships, in small-group gatherings, and when dealing with large groups of consumers, voters, opponents, or supporters, they use their knowledge of power and tend to get their way because they have a grasp of the variables and forces involved in the manipulation of people.
They are called the "power elite" by some, the "ruling class" by others, the "super-rich" by others. and just plain "rich folks" by yet others.
One major gap in our information about the super-powerful is that we tend to think of people who have power and money as one group of folks: the rich. Most of us think in terms of $100,000- to $200,000-a-year salaries, at the very most. But $200,000 a year is nothing to the super-rich. They think nothing of spending for a watch what most of us would not dream of spending for a car, or spend for an auto what you and I spend for a house. You and I may be awed by boxcar figures, but the super-rich are excited only by locomotives. That kind of wealth and power is as hard for you and me to grasp as the value of $1,000 was to understand when we were three years old. The amounts of money (and therefore power) which the executives of this country's major corporations play with is truly beyond the average person's grasp. Think of this: less than 5% of the top earners in this country earn the same as the lowest 85%.
Whether in our country or abroad, behind an Iron or Bamboo Curtain or in front of it, whether in monarchies, democracies, sheikdoms, or fascist countries, the super-powerful behave as if giving power to the people were a silly idea-not to be taken seriously, except in matters of little importance.
An example of the manner in which our most important affairs are run without our advice or consent by the super powerful was the Vietnam War. Most of what went on in that period of time was hidden from the American people. Millions who did not support the war were grossly deceived. Their sons were sent to die, driven insane, crippled, and forced to become indiscriminate killers. For many years, nothing could be done to stop the process. People's economic and financial resources were appropriated and used for an entirely senseless war. The few who rebelled against this outrage were persecuted, jailed, beaten, forced into exile, and made the victims of conspiracies aimed at destroying them. We ultimately had our democratic way on that particular issue and I remember distinctly when Nixon resigned and we thought that we had won!
Today in 2004 the almost identical pattern is being played out all over again in Iraq. Again most of what is going on is being hidden from the American people. Millions who did not support the war were grossly deceived. Their sons were sent to die, driven insane, crippled, and driven to become indiscriminate killers. People's economic and financial resources are being appropriated and used for an entirely senseless operation. Those who make the major economic and political decisions in the world will protect the power that they holds and silently, constantly, expand it whenever and wherever possible. The only difference between 30 years ago and today is that media, especially the Internet, are not as tightly controlled by the powerful. As a consequence the lies and other power abuses taking place are being intensely scrutinized and reported. Information in the hands of a democratic electorate can be a very antidote to the power abuse of the super powerful. "
http://www.emotional-literacy.com/osp1.htm More by Mr. Steiner
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Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
With forums such as this the processes of disinformation can be reversed. Information can spread like wildfire. We can connect and assert power to bring a more realistic balance considering the unfair power imbalances that surround us. I for one thank you for your efforts to inform. I see what you do, I feel your intent, and I value it very much.
I applaud you for presenting your view even when apparently others do not understand. It's okay if they don't--lack of understanding cannot diminish what you are doing. I am heartened that enough people do understand.
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Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
1. Been forced to take classes in Home Economics b/c Business wasn't for you?
2. Been pulled over solely b/c of the color of your skin? (It happens I have a Mex-Am brother-in-law who is a NYC cop who was pulled over countless times b/c of his ethnicity and now, unfortunately does it himself)
3. Never seen a class/race/ethnic likeness as a celebrity (besides an athlete)?
4. Had a nickname regarding the color of your skin rooted in centuries of domination by another ethnicity?
5. Had a city flooded twice to rid it of the poor?
6. Had a person look at you and automatically asume that you cannot complete a task solely b/c of your gender?
7. Been denied access to a bar b/c of the way you dress which is stereotyped as bad?
8. Been held for hours at an airport b/c they were racial profiling?
9. Been afraid to go to the ATM?
10. Lived in a society that cares and upholds the sports that men are better equiped to play over those than women are better equiped to play?
11. Not received a coaching job b/c of your gender?
12. Been sexually harassed in the locker room b/c of your gender?
13. Been whistled at while walking down the street?
14. Had movies like Falling Down made lamenting about the fact that you were gaining voice in this country?
15. Had movies made like Remember the Titans that make it seem like integration was bad for 5 minutes?
16. Had anyone look at you and think to themselves or say aloud "your pretty smart for a black man" or "your pretty smart for a girl"
17. Lived in a country whre it was under the common assumption that you were the weaker sex, naturally more athletic and prone to violence?
18. Had to fight to be married?
19. Been degraded b/c of the sexual relationship you chose to engage in?
20. Been derogatorily referred to as a slut b/c you slept with multiple partners?
21. Didn't have daddy play ball with you in the backyard b/c he was playing catch with your big brother?
22. Not been able to get into a building b/c you were in a wheelchair?
23. Weren't believed in an argument with another person b/c of the color of your skin? (Check out bell hooks "killing rage" on this one)
I'm sure there are a million more examples of stuff that goes on that even people like farfrom have to admit is fucked up. This stuff happens on a daily basis, and it doesn't happen to everybody. So to say that it bothers you that race/gender/sexuality/age/disability is brought up in a way that shows your privilege is I think a disservice to those who have to overcome these daily assaults on their lives. Farfrom and reborn, I'm not saying that you actively pursue the domination of other people, in fact, I bet you are both very conscious of saying/doing racist, sexist, and homophobic things. However, that is not the case for the many others that exist in this society and to discount that is wrong.
No...what you've been told is that everyone in America has an equal OPPORTUNITY. You can choose to wimper and whine about your race, gender or ethnicity...OR...you can get to work on realizing your dreams through the opportunity that this country affords. The choice is yours.
In other words...you can have a Bill Cosby type of attitude about race...or...you can have a Kanye West attitude about race.
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I love you, chica!!!
It's nice to hear replies like yours when you feel like you have to battle some here and get nowhere. It's just comforting to know that many here, like your self, do get what we are trying to do and don't see it as some kind of nefarious agenda. I agree you can't win them all no matter how hard you try but I'm not going to let the nay sayers take away from the good that I know can come from spreading information. For every one person who reads this info there are multiple friends to share it with and so the cycle goes.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Great post.
To add:
I've also been orally sodomised at the age of five; I lost my virginity to rape at 16, not to mention innumerable date rapes through the years. And later throughout my life, had it pointed out by men how I brought such situations on myself (trust me, it's a sadly patriarchal world that can construe childhood sexual assault as being the fault of the victim). Considering at least 1 in 4 girls are sexually assaulted before adulthood, my daughter seems to have lost that particular power lottery, and was also a victim before her fifth birthday.
I've had my strong, healthy intuitive and emotional intelligences squashed, invalidated and minimised, compared to the accepted logical form of intelligence prefered in our patriarchal society.
I lost a friend to a serial killer of prostitutes (yes, she was a prostitute). My childhood best friend currently runs an "escort agency". At my most powerless, I almost became an escort myself, as a way to achieve power to pay my bills and to buy things that some take for granted like sheets for our beds.
Due to the way my valid sometimes considered strongly feminine types of intelligences ( emotional and intuitive) were shut down in this patriarchal society, I developed numerous psychiatric imbalances, including eating disorders, addictions, severe obsessive-compulsive disorder and ultimately bi-polar disorder. I've been a single mother of two children from different fathers, living in poverty on social assistance in severe states of mental unrest, while the fathers of my children lived in houses of their own and not in poverty.
I've had police officers in my home, supposedly keeping the peace when an out of control boyfriend was collecting his things, and I had the very officers begin to take my boyfriend's side against me. Another time, when a boyfriend was being escorted out of my home, the officers again turned on me, in that familiar "good ol' boy's club way" some of them have displayed regarding myself.
My stepsister who was sexually assaulted by a step father of hers at age sixteen and bore his child and was banished from the family thereafter, committed suicide last year. What kind of respectful equal opportunity society condones and turns a blind eye to such behaviour? In what kind of society do women find the lack of power to justify selling themselves and their children up the river for a warm bed and shelter in exchange for the abuses they must suffer?
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
I have overcome disorder after disorder after disorder. I've risen beyond my life circumstances and I have found personal power for myself.
Because I've learned to self-actualise that does not change the fact that horrific imbalances and abuses of power exist all around us at all times.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
With vision and heart, we will see thing others won't see. And It's precious and I support the beautiful people on this board who keep on working when it's challenging to our sensitivities--when it's sometimes downright ugly and stifling.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
No, I'm not kidding. Yes, I do think I had an equal opportunity to become President of the United States. Not every success story in the United States started with an individual who was born with a silver spoon in their mouth. You sound like someone who thrives on feeling sorry themselves, and who excels at blaming their past failures on the fact that you weren't born a rich, white male. Don't even start with the education argument either, plenty of successful people in this world didn't have much of an education. Nothing I said was a crock, and you know it. If you want to sit around feeling sorry for yourself, then go ahead...but when you're old, grumpy and have nothing to show for your time here on Earth, maybe you'll start to realize that you should have helped yourself in this world, instead of directing all of your bitterness and hatred towards people who were dealt a better lot in life than yourself. None of us choose the life we were born into, so quit acting like the white man is holding you down, and go do what you want with your life. Life isn't fair, freaking deal with it. Do you think Condi Rice got to where she is because she blamed whitey for all of her problems? What about Colin Powell? What about Bill Cosby, or Oprah, or any other number of minority activists, artists and leaders? People like yourself enjoy wallowing in your own self pity. I feel sorry for you. You'll never amount to what you want to be, and you'll always find someone to blame for it but yourself. What a waste of life.
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I never said that horrific imbalances and abuses of power didn't exist all around us, did I? However, you just proved my point. Even though those balances DO exist (and not JUST with the "white man" *Gasp!*), you somehow found a way to overcome them and gain personal power for yourself. You should be applauded, you have the right attitude and motivation.
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First of all Colin Powell is just as irish as he is black so really he's kinda white. Secondly for every Colin, Condi, Oprah, and Bill there's hundreds of thousands that are left behind. That's how the system works it gets us to believe that anyone can make it, but look around at all the people in power and tell me it isn't skewed in a certain direction. How many black presidents have we had? Women? Outwardly gay? How many minority owners of sports teams, major corporations, heads of schools, etc. do we have? To suggest equal opportunity would be to suggest that white men are naturally better at business, and leading companies which is kind of ridiculous.
Oh, so you DID make it in life?! Okay. Well, I don't know what to say then. It seems like everyone in this forum who is saying that certain people like themselves are so disadvantaged, somehow, have managed to do fine for themselves. I don't know what to tell you about the other "not me's". Have you ever thought that maybe some people in this world just simply don't have your aspirations or goals, or simply don't care?!?! You do realize that there is plenty of "white trash" in this world too, right? Plenty of poor white people? Uneducated white people?
And you asked ME if I was joking?!?! LOL!!! Are you serious with THIS statement?!?!
So being outwardly gay, or female, or a minority is a good pre-requisite for a political position? How does that make anymore sense than electing someone as president simply because they're white? Shouldn't the best candidate get the position, regardless of race, gender or sexuality? I won't argue the lack of minorities as president...the record speaks for itself...but that's about it. We have plenty of minorities running sports teams, corporations, heads of schools, etc. You name it. Judges, politicians, athletes, actors, whatever...
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There are 2 minority owners in the NFL out of 32 teams (Minnesota, St. Louis)
There is 1 out of 30ish in the NBA (Charlotte)
There is 1 out of 30ish in MLB (LAA)
There are 0 out of 30ish in NHL
How is that plenty?
How many Asian lead actors and actresses can you name, latino/a, black (more yes but still not as many) vs. white actresses and actors. I agree with you about the best candidate, but at this rate are only white men good at being politicians...there is not an equal representation of the population in our government, not even close. Wouldn't equal representation reflect equal opportunity? Further, if there isn't equal representation amongst leadership positions how could the needs of minorities be met when their voice is not present?
Someone down the line in the Bush family tree worked hard at something, or got lucky, or came into a lot of money. They held onto it, used it to gain influence and became a rich and influential family. To the point where one of them became president. No most of us don't have the same opportunities as he had, the whole point is that if you work hard and don't squander your money away, your children have better opportunities than you had...and on down the line.
1. Been forced to take classes in Home Economics b/c Business wasn't for you? Was never given the opportunity to take home ec. Jocks in high school aren't upposed to take classes like that.
2. Been pulled over solely b/c of the color of your skin? (It happens I have a Mex-Am brother-in-law who is a NYC cop who was pulled over countless times b/c of his ethnicity and now, unfortunately does it himself) Yup. Been hassled by the cops for being the only white guy in a very black part of Dover, Delaware.
3. Never seen a class/race/ethnic likeness as a celebrity (besides an athlete)? First, celebrities come in just about every class/race/ethnic and sexuality there is. I can't think of any segment of society not represented by a celebrity. Second, once you hold to the Human Rights idea that we are all equal regardless of class/race/ethnic or sexuality why would you care about the those qualities in anyone.
4. Had a nickname regarding the color of your skin rooted in centuries of domination by another ethnicity? Nope, but never known anyone else who did either.
5. Had a city flooded twice to rid it of the poor? Please give us the example here. Please back up how the flooding was caused by people.
6. Had a person look at you and automatically asume that you cannot complete a task solely b/c of your gender? Would you think I knew how to give a good bikini wax.
7. Been denied access to a bar b/c of the way you dress which is stereotyped as bad? Yeah, the bar had a sign saying no t-shirts. I've also been told to leave a bar in Baltimore because I was white.
8. Been held for hours at an airport b/c they were racial profiling? Been held at the boarder for long hair profiling.
9. Been afraid to go to the ATM? Nope. But I'm not stupid about it either.
10. Lived in a society that cares and upholds the sports that men are better equiped to play over those than women are better equiped to play? Funny how girls can join a boys sport league but not the other way round. Even when that sport is not offered as either a co-ed or all boys sport.
11. Not received a coaching job b/c of your gender? No but I only coach sports I'm knowledgeable in.
12. Been sexually harassed in the locker room b/c of your gender? Yeah, girls can be brutal on a guy when you visit them in their change room.
13. Been whistled at while walking down the street? Yeah.
14. Had movies like Falling Down made lamenting about the fact that you were gaining voice in this country? Never heard of the movie.
15. Had movies made like Remember the Titans that make it seem like integration was bad for 5 minutes? So was integration bad for more or less than 5 minutes. This question makes no sense.
16. Had anyone look at you and think to themselves or say aloud "your pretty smart for a black man" or "your pretty smart for a girl"? I've had people talk to me like I'm stupid when I used to stutter.
17. Lived in a country whre it was under the common assumption that you were the weaker sex, naturally more athletic and prone to violence? I live in a country where men get shit on by the court system in divorce and especially child custody cases.
18. Had to fight to be married?
19. Been degraded b/c of the sexual relationship you chose to engage in? Yeah.
20. Been derogatorily referred to as a slut b/c you slept with multiple partners? Yeah.
21. Didn't have daddy play ball with you in the backyard b/c he was playing catch with your big brother? No but I was dragged all around the country I live in as part of getting an older sister to dance recitals. I would have rather ha the option of playing ball at home with my friends.
22. Not been able to get into a building b/c you were in a wheelchair? Question 22 and you finally have me.
23. Weren't believed in an argument with another person b/c of the color of your skin? (Check out bell hooks "killing rage" on this one) No, but I've had court ordered family councellors not belive me because of my sex.
The only difference is that I will never allow myself to be a victim or think of myself as a victim. Life's not fair, I learned that a long time ago. I stopped feeling sorry for myself at about 14. You know the age you're supposed to start growing up at. You choose your own destiny in life. You can choose to bestow victimhood on people all you want but that sure seems to be a very sad and disrespectful way to think of them.
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley