I agree with you about the best candidate, but at this rate are only white men good at being politicians...there is not an equal representation of the population in our government, not even close. Wouldn't equal representation reflect equal opportunity? Further, if there isn't equal representation amongst leadership positions how could the needs of minorities be met when their voice is not present?
How many basketball players are white? How many rappers are white? How many sprinters are white?
Women make up more than 50% of the population in just about every country in the world. Women control the vote. If women thought that gender had anything to do with being a good politician and if they wanted female representation they'd have it.
“One good thing about music,
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
Dude, I'l answer you for the umpteenth time. You are not interested in educating consumers such that they can make their own determinations. Stop hiding behind that claim. You are interested in voters and consumers reaching your conclusions. Your posts are consistently one-sided and anti-business. That is your right. You may be as anti-business as you'd like. But don't pretend that you're trying to paint a complete picture. You don't.
no, i'm saying 'these ppl/corps do some pretty fucked up shit, do you really feel comfortable supporting these types of things?' of course i'm interested in more ppl standing up and saying this isn't acceptable! just like you want ppl to see you paying taxes as everyone holding a gun to your head and robbing you (btw, how'd you get from place to place? roads?) but if not then it can lead to discussion about it.
do you really think not saying '...but millions of ppl also enjoy cokes products' is really hiding something from them? would you go to the trial of a serial childrapist/murderer and argue 'but he's a pretty nice guy and he's always let me borrow some $ when i needed it...and he gave me a ride once...oh, and this one time...'? do you have any idea how long it would take to include every little detail? do you think someone would actually read something that long? or is it more productive to spark questions and concerns in one's head and let them look into things, too?
It could have been funded just as easily with the Medicaid drug plan, or the social security fund, or the war itself, or the EPA budget, or part of the highway budget.
yet it WASN'T
if i only have $20 left in my bank account and no food for dinner tonight and i go spend it on cigarettes or beer or drugs...are you saying i didn't choose that over dinner? are you really saying 'well, i also chose gas the other day over dinner'? and yes, in a way you'd be right, but the other would be more apt, it's a cheap way out of owning up for your actions.
It certainly would be a crime. But Halliburton is not 'robbing the bank'. They are a contractor. Like many contractors, they have made billing errors. Some of those errors are willful fraud. They should be punished. But they should also be rewarded for their successes.
and i think if their 'mistakes' and fraud add up to the amounts it has here they lose ANY reward. if your kid stole money from you but made his bed would you go buy him some ice cream? at a certain point your bad actions cancel out your good actions completely. if it had just been once or twice it might not be an issue, maybe say 'those few guys did it' but when you see it a bunch of times all over you realize it's a conscious effort.
yes, 'like many contractors...' i agree. however, it's partly MY tax money they are using and i dislike how it is being mismanaged.
So the fuck what??? I love it. Your standard of failure requires a standard of success. When someone succeeds "lots" of times, you say "so the fuck what". And when they miss it a couple of times, you go apeshit. And then you ask me how I can run a business. Punish failure, reward success. That's how it works.
it depends on how you are defining 'miss'
let's see, they lost $9BILLION of our tax dollars in Iraq (govt, not halliburton), just no accounting of where it is at all...Halliburton has overcharged a bunch of times totalling potentially over a billion (and you call that chump change! ha, try visiting reality!)...sorry, but that's a pretty big 'miss' to me. i don't care how small a % that billion is in 'the overall scheme of things' as you try to paint it. i care that's a fucking BILLIONS OF DOLLARS. money that could've funded headstart and other programs HERE for the PEOPLE, not jsut being looted by pals.
I'm not justifying theft. That's your business, taxman. Punish failure.Punish failure.Punish failure.Punish failure.Punish failure.Punish failure.Punish failure. Got it?
Now, reward success.
you do drive on roads, don't you? you benefit from the use of taxes just like everyone else. and your ending rant sums it up perfectly...7 failures, 1 success and you want a cookie?
do you think we should say 'hitler did some pretty nice and good things throughout his life...maybe we shouldn't give him such a hard time for killing millions, in fact let's honor his good deeds'?
no
do you say my kid may be in a violent gang but he's an honor roll student AND a boy scout, so let's forget all his crimes?
no
do you say 'enron still gave power to lots of ppl'?
no
why not? b/c their bad far outweighs their good, anyone should be held to that standard.
and as an earlier comment it's not just halliburton...it's the whole sector, the military-industrial complex. and there's a group of them who revolve in and out of government and the private sector setting up policy and threats to profit for their friends and then after their terms reitre back into that sector and profit, too.
pnac, cheney, rummy (good thing we dropped so much money on rummy's company for the tamiflu!)...the carlyle group:
daddy bush
carlucci - Former Secretary of Defense and Deputy Director of the CIA
baker - Former Secretary of State and Sec. of Treasury
darman - White House Budget Advisor Bush / Clinton Administrations
pm major
'Don't join the book burners. Do not think you are going to conceal thoughts by concealing evidence that they ever existed.'
----
'Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired, signifies in the final sense a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed.'
----
'This conjunction of an immense military establishment and a large arms industry is new in the American experience. The total influence – economic, political, even spiritual – is felt in every city, every Statehouse, every office of the Federal government. We recognize the imperative need for this development. Yet we must not fail to comprehend its grave implications. Our toil, resources and livelihood are all involved; so is the very structure of our society.
In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist.
We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes. We should take nothing for granted. Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals, so that security and liberty may prosper together.'
Dwight Eisenhower
standin above the crowd
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
How many basketball players are white? How many rappers are white? How many sprinters are white?
Women make up more than 50% of the population in just about every country in the world. Women control the vote. If women thought that gender had anything to do with being a good politician and if they wanted female representation they'd have it.
basketball and sprinting...funny you should bring those two up since one takes a ball and hoop to play and the other nothing but a pair of running shoes. First of all, between men's and women's, at the college level I believe there are more white players than black...what would that suggest? Second, how many minority athletes can afford to play in the winter olympics? I think we had like 2 this year. How many NHL'ers are minority? How about American soccer players? The myth that being 'black' makes you a good athlete is so far fetched b/c the only sports where 'black' athletes dominate are the one's in which you can make money. If you totalled up all sports and looked at participation levels causasian would dominate, even at the highest levels. If playing rugby paid tons of money you'd better bet that minority athletes would gravitate to that sport...sporting dominance comes from need not natural ability. In addition why don't we watch gymnastics, distance swimming, etc.? Who owns the companies for which the basketball players play, the rappers rap, and the sprinters spring? The rabbit hole goes deeper than you can imagine.
These questions were from Ryan. I'll answer them as a white male.
1. Been forced to take classes in Home Economics b/c Business wasn't for you? Was never given the opportunity to take home ec. Jocks in high school aren't upposed to take classes like that.
2. Been pulled over solely b/c of the color of your skin? (It happens I have a Mex-Am brother-in-law who is a NYC cop who was pulled over countless times b/c of his ethnicity and now, unfortunately does it himself) Yup. Been hassled by the cops for being the only white guy in a very black part of Dover, Delaware.
3. Never seen a class/race/ethnic likeness as a celebrity (besides an athlete)? First, celebrities come in just about every class/race/ethnic and sexuality there is. I can't think of any segment of society not represented by a celebrity. Second, once you hold to the Human Rights idea that we are all equal regardless of class/race/ethnic or sexuality why would you care about the those qualities in anyone.
4. Had a nickname regarding the color of your skin rooted in centuries of domination by another ethnicity? Nope, but never known anyone else who did either.
5. Had a city flooded twice to rid it of the poor? Please give us the example here. Please back up how the flooding was caused by people.
6. Had a person look at you and automatically asume that you cannot complete a task solely b/c of your gender? Would you think I knew how to give a good bikini wax.
7. Been denied access to a bar b/c of the way you dress which is stereotyped as bad? Yeah, the bar had a sign saying no t-shirts. I've also been told to leave a bar in Baltimore because I was white.
8. Been held for hours at an airport b/c they were racial profiling? Been held at the boarder for long hair profiling.
9. Been afraid to go to the ATM? Nope. But I'm not stupid about it either.
10. Lived in a society that cares and upholds the sports that men are better equiped to play over those than women are better equiped to play? Funny how girls can join a boys sport league but not the other way round. Even when that sport is not offered as either a co-ed or all boys sport.
11. Not received a coaching job b/c of your gender? No but I only coach sports I'm knowledgeable in.
12. Been sexually harassed in the locker room b/c of your gender? Yeah, girls can be brutal on a guy when you visit them in their change room.
13. Been whistled at while walking down the street? Yeah.
14. Had movies like Falling Down made lamenting about the fact that you were gaining voice in this country? Never heard of the movie.
15. Had movies made like Remember the Titans that make it seem like integration was bad for 5 minutes? So was integration bad for more or less than 5 minutes. This question makes no sense.
16. Had anyone look at you and think to themselves or say aloud "your pretty smart for a black man" or "your pretty smart for a girl"? I've had people talk to me like I'm stupid when I used to stutter.
17. Lived in a country whre it was under the common assumption that you were the weaker sex, naturally more athletic and prone to violence? I live in a country where men get shit on by the court system in divorce and especially child custody cases.
18. Had to fight to be married?
19. Been degraded b/c of the sexual relationship you chose to engage in? Yeah.
20. Been derogatorily referred to as a slut b/c you slept with multiple partners? Yeah.
21. Didn't have daddy play ball with you in the backyard b/c he was playing catch with your big brother? No but I was dragged all around the country I live in as part of getting an older sister to dance recitals. I would have rather ha the option of playing ball at home with my friends.
22. Not been able to get into a building b/c you were in a wheelchair? Question 22 and you finally have me.
23. Weren't believed in an argument with another person b/c of the color of your skin? (Check out bell hooks "killing rage" on this one) No, but I've had court ordered family councellors not belive me because of my sex.
The only difference is that I will never allow myself to be a victim or think of myself as a victim. Life's not fair, I learned that a long time ago. I stopped feeling sorry for myself at about 14. You know the age you're supposed to start growing up at. You choose your own destiny in life. You can choose to bestow victimhood on people all you want but that sure seems to be a very sad and disrespectful way to think of them.
If you read the end of my post I mentioned (dis)ability as another place where one can be discriminated against...a white man with a disability (you have indicated some form of speech impediment (i'm learning more about this b/c my g/f is a speech pathologist) and wheelchair use) is not afforded the same privileges and rights than a white upper-middle class heterosexual man who is able. I know life isn't fair, that's the whole point of me arguing is that I want to make it more fair. Just plugging along and working hard isn't going to change that. My point of fighting then is not merely me whining b/c I didn't make it anywhere in life (read the above post to see that I'm doing exactly what I want with my life) it's that I want other people to have the same opportunity to have as good a life as mine. At the present moment that does not exist. It will probably not exist, but that doesn't mean I won't fight for it, and I don't think that's a bad cause. Contrary to popular belief I don't blame the structure, I just want people to understand how lucky their lives are for the most part before they start basing other people for their choices. I want people that are down in this society to get up and become strong and have a voice, and I want our government to listen to that voice, right now it's not happening. It's good that you were able to make it out of your situation, it seems like you've worked for what you have got, I want to help more people be like you...is that a bad thing?
I never said that horrific imbalances and abuses of power didn't exist all around us, did I? However, you just proved my point. Even though those balances DO exist (and not JUST with the "white man" *Gasp!*), you somehow found a way to overcome them and gain personal power for yourself. You should be applauded, you have the right attitude and motivation.
This is exactly why I applaud people like Abook, El Kabong and ryan198 who seek to spread information and who point to the abuses of the power structures. It was through the information, and by the support, compassion, foresight and efforts of others, who spread the information in hopes of empowering those who are lacking in power, that I was able to find the way. I certainly was not raised in an environment that encouraged empowerment. People like Claude Steiner, who I quoted posts ago--he and his colleagues STARTED the self-help movement! How can people grow and find their way and their power, when left to their own devices that are about being unempowered. The fact is: they don't. They need support, help an encouragement. And most importantly INFORMATION.
There is a big difference between whining and with acknowledging the truth and the accountability that is there. In the main of things there is not a lot of acknowledgment of accountability on numerous levels. It's about upholding the images of freedom, at the expense of those who are in torturous pain. I've had society's ills heaped on me. If society is not willing to hear the truth, they can continue to turn a deaf ear and uphold the comforting illusions. That is no longer my agenda. Nor the agenda of a few brave souls our here, either, apparently.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
If you read the end of my post I mentioned (dis)ability as another place where one can be discriminated against...a white man with a disability (you have indicated some form of speech impediment (i'm learning more about this b/c my g/f is a speech pathologist) and wheelchair use) is not afforded the same privileges and rights than a white upper-middle class heterosexual man who is able. I know life isn't fair, that's the whole point of me arguing is that I want to make it more fair. Just plugging along and working hard isn't going to change that. My point of fighting then is not merely me whining b/c I didn't make it anywhere in life (read the above post to see that I'm doing exactly what I want with my life) it's that I want other people to have the same opportunity to have as good a life as mine. At the present moment that does not exist. It will probably not exist, but that doesn't mean I won't fight for it, and I don't think that's a bad cause. Contrary to popular belief I don't blame the structure, I just want people to understand how lucky their lives are for the most part before they start basing other people for their choices. I want people that are down in this society to get up and become strong and have a voice, and I want our government to listen to that voice, right now it's not happening. It's good that you were able to make it out of your situation, it seems like you've worked for what you have got, I want to help more people be like you...is that a bad thing?
The number one determining factor in being successful in life is perserverance. Not how rich your parents were, color of skin, looks, or brains. What I find lacking in so many posts is that no one seems to acknowledge this and then want to teach this trait to people. All I ever hear is remove barriers and make it more fair. That does absolutely nothing for the person who hasn't learned the skill of perserverance.
I would never count a stutter as a disability. It's a stutter, saying it's a disability is just making a victim of the person.
It's a great thing to want to help people succeed. But you can't make anyone bigger by making others smaller. You can only give people a hand up. Too much of what I see and hear is people wanting to make successful people smaller in order that others seem bigger.
“One good thing about music,
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
Is anyone denying that we live in a patriarchal society? And that the majority of our power is wielded by men? Are we denying that those in power positions, as leaders of countries, corporations, etc. are men? And that therefore it is the male ideas of what is valuable that structure our society, while discounting feminine ways in the overview? Even successful women must travel these patriarchal structures in order to achieve such success. Much of my own power is that I can navigate the male structures, from years of studying them like a crazed fiend. Just like minorities learn to become very empathic and intuitive in reading the white-male power structures, and therefore can find power within that construct.
One of the saving graces I have had in my life is that I have been raised in a matriarchal family--the minority. Despite my numerous problems in a patriarchal society, I've been encouraged to be a powerful female in some underlying ways (which brought many, many challenges), I was taught I could do anything, and that I had a great potential. Unlike those who might deny power advantages they've received in life, I acknowledge where my privileges lie. I've attracted strong potent women into my life. My boyfriend's family is matriarchal, and he supports my strength, and encourages it (and encouraged me right out of mental illness). His brothers are both very successful and well educated, and are perpetuating a matriarchal way in their own families with their collective kids. He shows his masculine strength by his acceptance of my own power, not by dominating and squashing me.
I also believe: "With great power comes great responsibility".
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
no, i'm saying 'these ppl/corps do some pretty fucked up shit, do you really feel comfortable supporting these types of things?' of course i'm interested in more ppl standing up and saying this isn't acceptable! just like you want ppl to see you paying taxes as everyone holding a gun to your head and robbing you (btw, how'd you get from place to place? roads?) but if not then it can lead to discussion about it.
Ok. This is a discussion. How happy are you about that?
do you really think not saying '...but millions of ppl also enjoy cokes products' is really hiding something from them? would you go to the trial of a serial childrapist/murderer and argue 'but he's a pretty nice guy and he's always let me borrow some $ when i needed it...and he gave me a ride once...oh, and this one time...'? do you have any idea how long it would take to include every little detail? do you think someone would actually read something that long? or is it more productive to spark questions and concerns in one's head and let them look into things, too?
It's very productive to ask questions. There are zero question marks in the article posted.
yet it WASN'T
if i only have $20 left in my bank account and no food for dinner tonight and i go spend it on cigarettes or beer or drugs...are you saying i didn't choose that over dinner? are you really saying 'well, i also chose gas the other day over dinner'? and yes, in a way you'd be right, but the other would be more apt, it's a cheap way out of owning up for your actions.
Do you understand what a deficit is? Your example is missing one key element -- the credit card.
and i think if their 'mistakes' and fraud add up to the amounts it has here they lose ANY reward. if your kid stole money from you but made his bed would you go buy him some ice cream? at a certain point your bad actions cancel out your good actions completely. if it had just been once or twice it might not be an issue, maybe say 'those few guys did it' but when you see it a bunch of times all over you realize it's a conscious effort.
yes, 'like many contractors...' i agree. however, it's partly MY tax money they are using and i dislike how it is being mismanaged.
I dislike it too. People like you ensure that we have no choice.
not if they stole billions of dollars thru billing 'errors' i wouldn't
Yes you would. You'd simply forget about the state regulations that shut so many of them down and drive up the costs for the rest.
it depends on how you are defining 'miss'
let's see, they lost $9BILLION of our tax dollars in Iraq (govt, not halliburton), just no accounting of where it is at all...Halliburton has overcharged a bunch of times totalling potentially over a billion (and you call that chump change! ha, try visiting reality!)...sorry, but that's a pretty big 'miss' to me. i don't care how small a % that billion is in 'the overall scheme of things' as you try to paint it. i care that's a fucking BILLIONS OF DOLLARS. money that could've funded headstart and other programs HERE for the PEOPLE, not jsut being looted by pals.
Don't even talk to me about "looting". The only reason Haliiburton even has a chance to do these things is because of the mindset of you espouse -- the mindset that says our individual choices can be overridden by something called the "public good".
If you have a problem with looting, rail against it in all its forms. You don't have a problem with looting.
you do drive on roads, don't you? you benefit from the use of taxes just like everyone else. and your ending rant sums it up perfectly...7 failures, 1 success and you want a cookie?
That's your problem. You think Halliburton fails 7 times out of 8.
do you think we should say 'hitler did some pretty nice and good things throughout his life...maybe we shouldn't give him such a hard time for killing millions, in fact let's honor his good deeds'?
no
No.
do you say my kid may be in a violent gang but he's an honor roll student AND a boy scout, so let's forget all his crimes?
no
No.
do you say 'enron still gave power to lots of ppl'?
no
No.
why not? b/c their bad far outweighs their good, anyone should be held to that standard.
Exactly. Now what's missing from the picture you paint?
and as an earlier comment it's not just halliburton...it's the whole sector, the military-industrial complex. and there's a group of them who revolve in and out of government and the private sector setting up policy and threats to profit for their friends and then after their terms reitre back into that sector and profit, too.
Ok. Then give me back my choice to withhold my money.
pnac, cheney, rummy (good thing we dropped so much money on rummy's company for the tamiflu!)...the carlyle group:
daddy bush
carlucci - Former Secretary of Defense and Deputy Director of the CIA
baker - Former Secretary of State and Sec. of Treasury
darman - White House Budget Advisor Bush / Clinton Administrations
pm major
Ok. Then give me back my choice to withhold my money.
'Don't join the book burners. Do not think you are going to conceal thoughts by concealing evidence that they ever existed.'
----
You may want to read that yourself.
'Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired, signifies in the final sense a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed.'
----
You may want to read that yourself. So much that you espouse here has a gun, a warship, a rocket behind it.
'This conjunction of an immense military establishment and a large arms industry is new in the American experience. The total influence – economic, political, even spiritual – is felt in every city, every Statehouse, every office of the Federal government. We recognize the imperative need for this development. Yet we must not fail to comprehend its grave implications. Our toil, resources and livelihood are all involved; so is the very structure of our society.
You do recognize the "imperative need", don't you? And you'll fire any gun, any warship, any rocket to protect it. You'll loot any man that can give it to you.
In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist.
Who are you to discuss "misplaced power", when so much that you want can be achieved only by bullets and never by minds?
We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes. We should take nothing for granted. Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals, so that security and liberty may prosper together.'
You cannot "mesh" good and evil, friend, without ending up with evil.
Is anyone denying that we live in a patriarchal society? And that the majority of our power is wielded by men? Are we denying that those in power positions, as leaders of countries, corporations, etc. are men? And that therefore it is the male ideas of what is valuable that structure our society, while discounting feminine ways in the overview? Even successful women must travel these patriarchal structures in order to achieve such success. Much of my own power is that I can navigate the male structures, from years of studying them like a crazed fiend. Just like minorities learn to become very empathic and intuitive in reading the white-male power structures, and therefore can find power within that construct.
One of the saving graces I have had in my life is that I have been raised in a matriarchal family--the minority. Despite my numerous problems in a patriarchal society, I've been encouraged to be a powerful female in some underlying ways (which brought many, many challenges), I was taught I could do anything, and that I had a great potential. Unlike those who might deny power advantages they've received in life, I acknowledge where my privileges lie. I've attracted strong potent women into my life. My boyfriend's family is matriarchal, and he supports my strength, and encourages it (and encouraged me right out of mental illness). His brothers are both very successful and well educated, and are perpetuating a matriarchal way in their own families with their collective kids. He shows his masculine strength by his acceptance of my own power, not by dominating and squashing me.
I also believe: "With great power comes great responsibility".
It sounds like all you've done is switched to a matriarchal power base. Then acted like it has solved all your problems. I'd suggest moving to a human power base where the sex of the person doesn't matter.
“One good thing about music,
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
You cannot "mesh" good and evil, friend, without ending up with evil.
We can integrate good and evil and have the truth and information with which to make informed, healthy, empowered decisions from. Enlightenment is about doing so--it is about going beyond being polarised between sides and to being realistically informed and understanding in each moment.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
We can integrate good and evil and have the truth and information with which to make informed, healthy, empowered decisions from. Enlightenment is about doing so--it is about going beyond being polarised between sides and to being realistically informed and understanding in each moment.
"Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals, so that security and liberty may prosper together."
It is through the "integration" of evil that security and liberty become at odds with one another.
It sounds like all you've done is switched to a matriarchal power base. Then acted like it has solved all your problems. I'd suggest moving to a human power base where the sex of the person doesn't matter.
First of all, if you have a patriarchal society, there is going to be it's opposite pole within said society as a natural balance mechanism. The yin and yang contain seeds of one another.
I paid many a price for being raised in my matriarchal family, especially in the patriarchal world where men want to be at the top of the pecking order. In the male hierarchal structure, men seek the top of the pecking order over men--they sure get all power-imbalanced when a woman comes along and can intellectually challenge that power. I don't claim my matriarchal background was "healthy" or balanced at all. It was, though, my personal saving grace for strength ultimately, because despite my problems I've known I could do as well as any male intellectually, or in a debate, or whatever. I'm not intimidated by male power structures at all, and actually, I have a strong competitive nature--stronger than many males I know. I was taught to be logical as a kid, and to discard my emotions, so I was taught how to operate in a "man's world".
Rather than accept the natural move towards male domination in my relationships, my strength has forced the males I've known to treat me equally. Much like happens on this board. I do not seek to dominate--I seek the even playing field. It is the power that is willing to be highly potent but voluntarily meet in the middle that will solve the worlds problems. The hierarchal-dominate energy is continually causing the unsolvability of our problems. Silly us, we believe the past few thousand years history indicates certain things to us, when the reality is that it teaches us a thing or two about what good patriarchy gets us: namely war, separation and imbalance.
I agree that balanced humanity is the goal. I know it will be achieved when the unempowered stop accepting a lack of power and meet the hierarchical structure in the middle, and refuse to back down. As I have done. Balance will not be achieved continuing hierarchy. And continuing hierarchy and patriarchy will continue to spawn it's opposites to rise up in battle.
My boyfriend's sister-in-law is a chemical engineer. Her husband received 2nd top marks in his class and she got 3rd top when they graduated. However, she was unable to find a job in the field for over a decade after graduation. She had also been raised to believe in her power, and was a gifted student as a child. However, her potential contribution was shoved aside for years while she figured out how to achieve equal power in a male dominated world--one that is often threatened by allowing women to hold the power, and especially when women tend to come with emotional and intutitive intelligences the male power structure finds scary, and alien. Men are taught to subdue such intelligences in their own selves, so when women appear on the scene with these intelligences they find the compelling need to pathologise them, or to somehow find a minimised view to define them by.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
I have always found these discussions about racial and even gender equality to be interesting. The problem really is two fold. On one hand there still is an unlevel playing field in this country and wether you acknowledge it or not white males have the advantage. The second part of the problem is that a portion of the minorities in this country have this feeling of entitlement. That just because they are a minority they feel that society owes them something. Unfortunetly that is the farthest thing from the truth. Women and minorities can achieve anything in this country but unfortunetly they have to work harder at it. A poor black kid from the ghetto starts off at a disadvantage than say his white counterpart in an affluent neighborhood. The white child will have a far greater opportunity to receive a better education simply because the school he attends will have better qualified teachers and more funding. That child may not have to face the hardships of living in poverty or in a high crime neighborhood, which can be a huge distraction to a child's education. The child who lives in the ghetto will have to work twice as hard to accomplish what his/her counter part does. Now this doesn't mean that they can't. Minorities, especially the one's who have this feeling of entitlement, need to realize that life is not easy and just because the government may be willing to support you doesn't mean that everyone else in life will hand you what you want on a silver platter. You have to work for it and chances are you will have to work even harder than most people. I grew up one of 5 children. My parents where Cuban immigrants who came to this country without a pot to piss in. I grew up in a shitty section of Newark, NJ. I faced hardship, I faced discrimination, but not untill I attended a private high school in a predominetly white neighborhood, but I still strived. I was the first in my family to attend and graduate college. Minorities need to realize that hardwork is the only way you will lift yourself up. You can voice your displeasure with the inequalities within the system, try to fix them, but don't just sit back and expect life to offer you up a freebie simply because that inequality exists.
"When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
It is through the "integration" of evil that security and liberty become at odds with one another.
I see you put the word integration in quotes.
When something is at odds with another thing, we do not have integration--we still have separation, not synthesis and wholeness. We only come to understand integration when we learn what it truly is. That is beyond knowing intellectually--it is about KNOWing experientially, therefore truly knowing. When we fully integrate good and evil, and have understanding, we'll know it.
AND THIS PROCESS BEGINS WITH ALERTING AND INFORMING THE CITIZENRY.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
It sounds like all you've done is switched to a matriarchal power base. Then acted like it has solved all your problems. I'd suggest moving to a human power base where the sex of the person doesn't matter.
I would like to point out that you thought I meant being raised in a matriarchal fashion solved all my problems. Did you miss the post about my unempowered life?
Notice that you figured that because I was literally equal to the normal patriarchal structures that generally exist in life due to a matriarchal background, that you felt I had it made. When all it really did is give me the same equal footing you have in life. It certainly didn't pave any roads for me. And quite frankly, I've very fortunate I had that equal footing when attempting to deal with the male society that raped and abused me numerous times. Now imagine the women who do not have the sense of equal footing to begin with--the majority of women. If you automatically falsely assumed, despite what I've said about my past, that my problems were solved based on my family power structure and the dominant role of women, by that logic, you must surely understand how the average woman is at a distinct disadvantage to men who have the patriarchy advantage in our society.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
I would like to point out that you thought I meant being raised in a matriarchal fashion solved all my problems. Did you miss the post about my unempowered life?
Notice that you figured that because I was literally equal to the normal patriarchal structures that generally exist in life due to a matriarchal background, that you felt I had it made. When all it really did is give me the same equal footing you have in life. It certainly didn't pave any roads for me. And quite frankly, I've very fortunate I had that equal footing when attempting to deal with the male society that raped and abused me numerous times. Now imagine the women who do not have the sense of equal footing to begin with--the majority of women. If you automatically falsely assumed, despite what I've said about my past, that my problems were solved based on my family power structure and the dominant role of women, by that logic, you must surely understand how the average woman is at a distinct disadvantage to men who have the patriarchy advantage in our society.
There is hugely higher proportion of violence towards male in the world than women. But we just discount the violence towards men, seemingly because it is largely done by men. In a world where equality is the goal we have accepted that a man hitting a man is almost okay, but a man hitting a woman is unacceptable. We mostly seem to excuse a woman hitting a man, or severely discount this act.
Imagine what it's like being raped, abused and assaulted numerous times then being told you are part of an overly advantaged, domineering group.
“One good thing about music,
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
When something is at odds with another thing, we do not have integration--we still have separation, not synthesis and wholeness. We only come to understand integration when we learn what it truly is. That is beyond knowing intellectually--it is about KNOWing experientially, therefore truly knowing. When we fully integrate good and evil, and have understanding, we'll know it.
Yes...and the original quote my statement was in response to suggested that security and liberty are at odds. Hence my response.
AND THIS PROCESS BEGINS WITH ALERTING AND INFORMING THE CITIZENRY.
There is hugely higher proportion of violence towards male in the world than women. But we just discount the violence towards men, seemingly because it is largely done by men. In a world where equality is the goal we have accepted that a man hitting a man is almost okay, but a man hitting a woman is unacceptable. We mostly seem to excuse a woman hitting a man, or severely discount this act.
Imagine what it's like being raped, abused and assaulted numerous times then being told you are part of an overly advantaged, domineering group.
You didn't acknowledge the point I made: that if you assumed because I was raised martriarchally, it gave me an advantage, when really it puts me somewhat equal against the average man, then what does that say to the average woman who is raised to play woman to the dominant man and his dominating ideas?
I realise men have a ton of problems. The main one that comes to mind is by squashing their emotions and intuitive intelligence, they end up losing balance in the system to the degree of dying much younger than women counterparts! That's huge, not to mention the day to day existence of squashing major parts of one--I know, it is very draining--it sucks the life from you. I realise it is very few men who uncover authentic power, and it's not people like farfromglorified who run businesses. I may be wrong, but from what know, he's not the filthy rich and a real power broker.
I don't discount the abuses towards men. I do realise society does. It makes me ill when I see men continually conditioned to squash their own emotions, experiences etc. I do not do that to my own son. I teach him about balance. In the big view, it is a huge imbalance and men are also victims of this patriarchal society.
Like came up in Abook's other thread the other day--men are taught to be logical and discount their intuition (or inner spirit) and then are held accountable for all the abuses such power structures perpetuate. In this life and the one beyond.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
Sorry, I don't buy this. Each person has their part of the puzzle. Ultimately, life is sythesised and a group effort. Each person will take up their own piece. Abook is not responsible for knowing all of reality when she starts this thread, and neither is El Kabong when he posts. Rather each are responsible for their own specialty--what they see that they interpret needs being said and done. It's called free will. You cannot speak for what their vision needs to be.
When you do, it sounds like a lack of boundary, whereupon you see your own contribution and confuse things, assuming it "should" be their "missing pieces".
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
Sorry, I don't buy this. Each person has their part of the puzzle. Ultimately, life is sythesised and a group effort. Each person will take up their own piece. Abook is not responsible for knowing all of reality when she starts this thread, and neither is El Kabong when he posts. Rather each are responsible for their own specialty--what they see that they interpret needs being said and done. It's called free will. You cannot speak for what their vision needs to be.
I don't speak for what anyone's vision needs to be. I expect them to tell me what their vision is. When they do, I simply hold their own words to their own vision. If there's a disconnect, I'm going to question either the vision or the words.
When you do, it sounds like a lack of boundary, whereupon you see your own contribution and confuse things, assuming it "should" be their "missing pieces".
Yes...and the original quote my statement was in response to suggested that security and liberty are at odds. Hence my response.
Here is the quote:
"Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals, so that security and liberty may prosper together."
Here are your responses: "You cannot "mesh" good and evil, friend, without ending up with evil." ... "It is through the "integration" of evil that security and liberty become at odds with one another."
It looks like the original quote suggested that information and knowledge integrates security and liberty that they may prosper together.
It appears you believe that such ideas of integration leave you with conflict. I assert that is because you don't understand integration because you are still fighting for separation.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
I don't speak for what anyone's vision needs to be. I expect them to tell me what their vision is. When they do, I simply hold their own words to their own vision. If there's a disconnect, I'm going to question either the vision or the words.
My apologies for confusing anything.
No apologies necessary, and yet I appreciate the sentiment.
From my view, it sometimes looks like you are holding them to your idea of what their vision is, because sometimes I see that you are not getting their vision. That is not to say that we all don't have flaws, inconsistencies. Of course, call people out when you see a "flaw".... I see different communication/personality styles underlying some of these lacks in understanding, for the most part and not as much "flaws".
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
"Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals, so that security and liberty may prosper together."
Here are your responses: "You cannot "mesh" good and evil, friend, without ending up with evil." ... "It is through the "integration" of evil that security and liberty become at odds with one another."
It looks like the original quote suggested that information and knowledge integrates security and liberty that they may prosper together.
It looks like the original quotes suggests that the "huge industrial military machinery of defense" can lead to liberty. It cannot. The "huge industrial military machinery of defense" is a weapon. And the use of a weapon involves someone holding it, and someone facing it. The "integration" of those truths creates one man with security, the other without. The "integration" of those truths creates one man with liberty, the other without. The machinery of defense is the machinery of oppression and of death. Oppression and death cannot mean liberty, cannot mean security for those who are oppressed and those who die. Do you understand this?
It appears you believe that such ideas of integration leave you with conflict. I assert that is because you don't understand integration because you are still fighting for separation.
You may assert whatever you wish. Perhaps if you could explain, then you might match your own vision.
From my view, it sometimes looks like you are holding them to your idea of what their vision is,
This is true. I do hold others to what my idea of their vision is. I have no other choice. It is my hope that my idea of their vision and their actual vision are consistent.
because sometimes I see that you are not getting their vision. That is not to say that we all don't have flaws, inconsistencies. Of course, call people out when you see a "flaw".... I see different communication/personality styles underlying some of these lacks in understanding, for the most part and not as much "flaws".
It looks like the original quotes suggests that the "huge industrial military machinery of defense" can lead to liberty. It cannot. The "huge industrial military machinery of defense" is a weapon. And the use of a weapon involves someone holding it, and someone facing it. The "integration" of those truths creates one man with security, the other without. The "integration" of those truths creates one man with liberty, the other without. The machinery of defense is the machinery of oppression and of death. Oppression and death cannot mean liberty, cannot mean security for those who are oppressed and those who die. Do you understand this?
I agree with the basics of what you are saying and I agree with that spirit wholeheartedly. I also understand that there is a prevalant idea in the consciousness of humankind which says at the very least, "if I am in danger, I will defend myself". (that concept might be familiar to you.....)
I think this base idea creates a lot of chaos and illusionary power struggles, including fake reasons for war (Iraq)
I don't have all the answers, myself, but I understand that looking to get rid of the poles of left/right, American/other, good/evil, we can demystify what our hidden emotions have distorted and move to true understanding of life--reconnection with what is real and natural. We can then see the big picture. I happen to know true integration is about entirely Love. Period. And about life in flow. When we integrate to that level of undertanding our dichotomies resolve themselves. We find ourselves left with no choice but to align to love in each moment.
You may assert whatever you wish. Perhaps if you could explain, then you might match your own vision.
You constantly argue for the basics of the dichotomies, for example self vs. other. While it is entirely relevent to do so, and someone has to, it is still arguing in the details, rather than operating from commitment to the integrated whole. By doing so, you have a factual point of view, however it is different than learning to become savvy with integration and resolution. You pride yourself on your "self-centeredness" and lack of integrating the whole. As one of my favourite authors says: Whatever we focus on expands. If you focus on the conflicting opposites, you are not focussing on the perfection of the integrated opposites. It's as natural to your personality as breathing. What would be a mistake would be to have a pygmalion complex and to believe that such a way should be for everyone. And I'm not saying you do so, it's just that we humans often scoff at what is different and what we don't understand. Worse yet is when we think we are "right" over that which we do not understand.
Anyway, with the quote, you honed in on the details and the part aobut separation and you don't seem to have a clue what true integration might be excepting maybe some "imaginary, pie-in-the-sky-"unrealistic" ideal. But, I'll accept that, because you do bring your valid logic around and you show a reasonable amount of Love and goodwill towards us "flaky, unrealistic" types, and really, in the end, it's quite clear you are one of us and part of the whole. Like if this were the real world, we're all obviously "hanging out" together.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
This is true. I do hold others to what my idea of their vision is. I have no other choice. It is my hope that my idea of their vision and their actual vision are consistent.
Sometimes I see that with 5 or 10 hours of logical debate, you might be allowed a peek into what these kinds of agendas are really about. You and I have resolved some of those opposites. I know if you understood, you'd be behind them 100%. I also appreciate that you are wired upside-down and backwards to how we are, and I trust it is for a perfect reason we are each different. And I hope we can all come to trust more, the real purposes to these debates.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
I agree with the basics of what you are saying and I agree with that spirit wholeheartedly. I also understand that there is a prevalant idea in the consciousness of humankind which says at the very least, "if I am in danger, I will defend myself". (that concept might be familiar to you.....)
Every person who loves life has a moral obligation to defend their life in the face of direct aggression. But to defend your own life does not grant you the right to destroy another. And to define aggression as defense is the greatest moral mistake a government can make.
Liberty is the measure of a man's freedom from the state. You cannot increase that man's liberty by obligating him to the defense of others nor can you increase that man's liberty by pointing your weapons of "defense" at him for actions free of aggression. Furthermore, you decrease that man's liberty by assigning to him the state's "methods and goals", even if those "methods and goals" contradict his own.
Security is the measure of a man's freedom from aggression. You cannot increase that man's security by pitting him against his neighbors nor can you increase that man's security by subjecting him to the very aggression you pretend to reject.
I think this base idea creates a lot of chaos and illusionary power struggles, including fake reasons for war (Iraq)
YES!!!
I don't have all the answers, myself, but I understand that looking to get rid of the poles of left/right, American/other, good/evil, we can demystify what our hidden emotions have distorted and move to true understanding of life--reconnection with what is real and natural. We can then see the big picture. I happen to know true integration is about entirely Love. Period. And about life in flow. When we integrate to that level of undertanding our dichotomies resolve themselves. We find ourselves left with no choice but to align to love in each moment.
You constantly argue for the basics of the dichotomies, for example self vs. other. While it is entirely relevent to do so, and someone has to, it is still arguing in the details, rather than operating from commitment to the integrated whole. By doing so, you have a factual point of view, however it is different than learning to become savvy with integration and resolution. You pride yourself on your "self-centeredness" and lack of integrating the whole. As one of my favourite authors says: Whatever we focus on expands. If you focus on the conflicting opposites, you are not focussing on the perfection of the integrated opposites. It's as natural to your personality as breathing. What would be a mistake would be to have a pygmalion complex and to believe that such a way should be for everyone. And I'm not saying you do so, it's just that we humans often scoff at what is different and what we don't understand. Worse yet is when we think we are "right" over that which we do not understand.
Anyway, with the quote, you honed in on the details and the part aobut separation and you don't seem to have a clue what true integration might be excepting maybe some "imaginary, pie-in-the-sky-"unrealistic" ideal. But, I'll accept that, because you do bring your valid logic around and you show a reasonable amount of Love and goodwill towards us "flaky, unrealistic" types, and really, in the end, it's quite clear you are one of us and part of the whole. Like if this were the real world, we're all obviously "hanging out" together.
Every person who loves life has a moral obligation to defend their life in the face of direct aggression. But to defend your own life does not grant you the right to destroy another. And to define aggression as defense is the greatest moral mistake a government can make.
Liberty is the measure of a man's freedom from the state. You cannot increase that man's liberty by obligating him to the defense of others nor can you increase that man's liberty by pointing your weapons of "defense" at him for actions free of aggression. Furthermore, you decrease that man's liberty by assigning to him the state's "methods and goals", even if those "methods and goals" contradict his own.
Security is the measure of a man's freedom from aggression. You cannot increase that man's security by pitting him against his neighbors nor can you increase that man's security by subjecting him to the very aggression you pretend to reject.
It looks like you've got your personal perspective worked out. To me it's all just details.
YES!!!
"I think this base idea creates a lot of chaos and illusionary power struggles, including fake reasons for war (Iraq)"
I feel this way about the vibe you carry when you carry a gun as well. Our subconscious info hangs all around us to connect with the subconsciouses of others--we connect via those subconscious contracts. Beware self-fulfilling prophecies. Oh, and this goes for fighting for separation, too. Fighting for anything is still fighting. What was this thread about again???
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
It looks like you've got your personal perspective worked out. To me it's all just details.
It is all just details. The "industrial military machinery of defense" is also just a detail. Sometimes details kill you.
"I think this base idea creates a lot of chaos and illusionary power struggles, including fake reasons for war (Iraq)"
I feel this way about the vibe you carry when you carry a gun as well. Our subconscious info hangs all around us to connect with the subconsciouses of others--we connect via those subconscious contracts. Beware self-fulfilling prophecies. Oh, and this goes for fighting for separation, too. Fighting for anything is still fighting. What was this thread about again???
Fighting for anything is still fighting! The gun I carry is an acceptance of that fact, not a rejection of it. Understand why I carry a gun yet? Understand what I meant by this statement yet:
I own a gun. Why? To defend myself in the situation where my choice is simple: my life or my mind. My gun is not a tool of fear. It has no purpose in the face of another. It has only the purpose to defend my life, in and only in the event that it is necessary.
i thought you said before that would be impossible?
standin above the crowd
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
Comments
Women make up more than 50% of the population in just about every country in the world. Women control the vote. If women thought that gender had anything to do with being a good politician and if they wanted female representation they'd have it.
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
no, i'm saying 'these ppl/corps do some pretty fucked up shit, do you really feel comfortable supporting these types of things?' of course i'm interested in more ppl standing up and saying this isn't acceptable! just like you want ppl to see you paying taxes as everyone holding a gun to your head and robbing you (btw, how'd you get from place to place? roads?) but if not then it can lead to discussion about it.
do you really think not saying '...but millions of ppl also enjoy cokes products' is really hiding something from them? would you go to the trial of a serial childrapist/murderer and argue 'but he's a pretty nice guy and he's always let me borrow some $ when i needed it...and he gave me a ride once...oh, and this one time...'? do you have any idea how long it would take to include every little detail? do you think someone would actually read something that long? or is it more productive to spark questions and concerns in one's head and let them look into things, too?
yet it WASN'T
if i only have $20 left in my bank account and no food for dinner tonight and i go spend it on cigarettes or beer or drugs...are you saying i didn't choose that over dinner? are you really saying 'well, i also chose gas the other day over dinner'? and yes, in a way you'd be right, but the other would be more apt, it's a cheap way out of owning up for your actions.
and i think if their 'mistakes' and fraud add up to the amounts it has here they lose ANY reward. if your kid stole money from you but made his bed would you go buy him some ice cream? at a certain point your bad actions cancel out your good actions completely. if it had just been once or twice it might not be an issue, maybe say 'those few guys did it' but when you see it a bunch of times all over you realize it's a conscious effort.
yes, 'like many contractors...' i agree. however, it's partly MY tax money they are using and i dislike how it is being mismanaged.
not if they stole billions of dollars thru billing 'errors' i wouldn't
it depends on how you are defining 'miss'
let's see, they lost $9BILLION of our tax dollars in Iraq (govt, not halliburton), just no accounting of where it is at all...Halliburton has overcharged a bunch of times totalling potentially over a billion (and you call that chump change! ha, try visiting reality!)...sorry, but that's a pretty big 'miss' to me. i don't care how small a % that billion is in 'the overall scheme of things' as you try to paint it. i care that's a fucking BILLIONS OF DOLLARS. money that could've funded headstart and other programs HERE for the PEOPLE, not jsut being looted by pals.
you do drive on roads, don't you? you benefit from the use of taxes just like everyone else. and your ending rant sums it up perfectly...7 failures, 1 success and you want a cookie?
do you think we should say 'hitler did some pretty nice and good things throughout his life...maybe we shouldn't give him such a hard time for killing millions, in fact let's honor his good deeds'?
no
do you say my kid may be in a violent gang but he's an honor roll student AND a boy scout, so let's forget all his crimes?
no
do you say 'enron still gave power to lots of ppl'?
no
why not? b/c their bad far outweighs their good, anyone should be held to that standard.
and as an earlier comment it's not just halliburton...it's the whole sector, the military-industrial complex. and there's a group of them who revolve in and out of government and the private sector setting up policy and threats to profit for their friends and then after their terms reitre back into that sector and profit, too.
pnac, cheney, rummy (good thing we dropped so much money on rummy's company for the tamiflu!)...the carlyle group:
daddy bush
carlucci - Former Secretary of Defense and Deputy Director of the CIA
baker - Former Secretary of State and Sec. of Treasury
darman - White House Budget Advisor Bush / Clinton Administrations
pm major
'Don't join the book burners. Do not think you are going to conceal thoughts by concealing evidence that they ever existed.'
----
'Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired, signifies in the final sense a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed.'
----
'This conjunction of an immense military establishment and a large arms industry is new in the American experience. The total influence – economic, political, even spiritual – is felt in every city, every Statehouse, every office of the Federal government. We recognize the imperative need for this development. Yet we must not fail to comprehend its grave implications. Our toil, resources and livelihood are all involved; so is the very structure of our society.
In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist.
We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes. We should take nothing for granted. Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals, so that security and liberty may prosper together.'
Dwight Eisenhower
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
If you read the end of my post I mentioned (dis)ability as another place where one can be discriminated against...a white man with a disability (you have indicated some form of speech impediment (i'm learning more about this b/c my g/f is a speech pathologist) and wheelchair use) is not afforded the same privileges and rights than a white upper-middle class heterosexual man who is able. I know life isn't fair, that's the whole point of me arguing is that I want to make it more fair. Just plugging along and working hard isn't going to change that. My point of fighting then is not merely me whining b/c I didn't make it anywhere in life (read the above post to see that I'm doing exactly what I want with my life) it's that I want other people to have the same opportunity to have as good a life as mine. At the present moment that does not exist. It will probably not exist, but that doesn't mean I won't fight for it, and I don't think that's a bad cause. Contrary to popular belief I don't blame the structure, I just want people to understand how lucky their lives are for the most part before they start basing other people for their choices. I want people that are down in this society to get up and become strong and have a voice, and I want our government to listen to that voice, right now it's not happening. It's good that you were able to make it out of your situation, it seems like you've worked for what you have got, I want to help more people be like you...is that a bad thing?
There is a big difference between whining and with acknowledging the truth and the accountability that is there. In the main of things there is not a lot of acknowledgment of accountability on numerous levels. It's about upholding the images of freedom, at the expense of those who are in torturous pain. I've had society's ills heaped on me. If society is not willing to hear the truth, they can continue to turn a deaf ear and uphold the comforting illusions. That is no longer my agenda. Nor the agenda of a few brave souls our here, either, apparently.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
I would never count a stutter as a disability. It's a stutter, saying it's a disability is just making a victim of the person.
It's a great thing to want to help people succeed. But you can't make anyone bigger by making others smaller. You can only give people a hand up. Too much of what I see and hear is people wanting to make successful people smaller in order that others seem bigger.
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
One of the saving graces I have had in my life is that I have been raised in a matriarchal family--the minority. Despite my numerous problems in a patriarchal society, I've been encouraged to be a powerful female in some underlying ways (which brought many, many challenges), I was taught I could do anything, and that I had a great potential. Unlike those who might deny power advantages they've received in life, I acknowledge where my privileges lie. I've attracted strong potent women into my life. My boyfriend's family is matriarchal, and he supports my strength, and encourages it (and encouraged me right out of mental illness). His brothers are both very successful and well educated, and are perpetuating a matriarchal way in their own families with their collective kids. He shows his masculine strength by his acceptance of my own power, not by dominating and squashing me.
I also believe: "With great power comes great responsibility".
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
Ok. This is a discussion. How happy are you about that?
It's very productive to ask questions. There are zero question marks in the article posted.
Do you understand what a deficit is? Your example is missing one key element -- the credit card.
I dislike it too. People like you ensure that we have no choice.
Yes you would. You'd simply forget about the state regulations that shut so many of them down and drive up the costs for the rest.
Don't even talk to me about "looting". The only reason Haliiburton even has a chance to do these things is because of the mindset of you espouse -- the mindset that says our individual choices can be overridden by something called the "public good".
If you have a problem with looting, rail against it in all its forms. You don't have a problem with looting.
That's your problem. You think Halliburton fails 7 times out of 8.
No.
No.
No.
Exactly. Now what's missing from the picture you paint?
Ok. Then give me back my choice to withhold my money.
Ok. Then give me back my choice to withhold my money.
You may want to read that yourself.
You may want to read that yourself. So much that you espouse here has a gun, a warship, a rocket behind it.
You do recognize the "imperative need", don't you? And you'll fire any gun, any warship, any rocket to protect it. You'll loot any man that can give it to you.
Who are you to discuss "misplaced power", when so much that you want can be achieved only by bullets and never by minds?
You cannot "mesh" good and evil, friend, without ending up with evil.
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
We can integrate good and evil and have the truth and information with which to make informed, healthy, empowered decisions from. Enlightenment is about doing so--it is about going beyond being polarised between sides and to being realistically informed and understanding in each moment.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
It is through the "integration" of evil that security and liberty become at odds with one another.
First of all, if you have a patriarchal society, there is going to be it's opposite pole within said society as a natural balance mechanism. The yin and yang contain seeds of one another.
I paid many a price for being raised in my matriarchal family, especially in the patriarchal world where men want to be at the top of the pecking order. In the male hierarchal structure, men seek the top of the pecking order over men--they sure get all power-imbalanced when a woman comes along and can intellectually challenge that power. I don't claim my matriarchal background was "healthy" or balanced at all. It was, though, my personal saving grace for strength ultimately, because despite my problems I've known I could do as well as any male intellectually, or in a debate, or whatever. I'm not intimidated by male power structures at all, and actually, I have a strong competitive nature--stronger than many males I know. I was taught to be logical as a kid, and to discard my emotions, so I was taught how to operate in a "man's world".
Rather than accept the natural move towards male domination in my relationships, my strength has forced the males I've known to treat me equally. Much like happens on this board. I do not seek to dominate--I seek the even playing field. It is the power that is willing to be highly potent but voluntarily meet in the middle that will solve the worlds problems. The hierarchal-dominate energy is continually causing the unsolvability of our problems. Silly us, we believe the past few thousand years history indicates certain things to us, when the reality is that it teaches us a thing or two about what good patriarchy gets us: namely war, separation and imbalance.
I agree that balanced humanity is the goal. I know it will be achieved when the unempowered stop accepting a lack of power and meet the hierarchical structure in the middle, and refuse to back down. As I have done. Balance will not be achieved continuing hierarchy. And continuing hierarchy and patriarchy will continue to spawn it's opposites to rise up in battle.
My boyfriend's sister-in-law is a chemical engineer. Her husband received 2nd top marks in his class and she got 3rd top when they graduated. However, she was unable to find a job in the field for over a decade after graduation. She had also been raised to believe in her power, and was a gifted student as a child. However, her potential contribution was shoved aside for years while she figured out how to achieve equal power in a male dominated world--one that is often threatened by allowing women to hold the power, and especially when women tend to come with emotional and intutitive intelligences the male power structure finds scary, and alien. Men are taught to subdue such intelligences in their own selves, so when women appear on the scene with these intelligences they find the compelling need to pathologise them, or to somehow find a minimised view to define them by.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
I see you put the word integration in quotes.
When something is at odds with another thing, we do not have integration--we still have separation, not synthesis and wholeness. We only come to understand integration when we learn what it truly is. That is beyond knowing intellectually--it is about KNOWing experientially, therefore truly knowing. When we fully integrate good and evil, and have understanding, we'll know it.
AND THIS PROCESS BEGINS WITH ALERTING AND INFORMING THE CITIZENRY.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
I would like to point out that you thought I meant being raised in a matriarchal fashion solved all my problems. Did you miss the post about my unempowered life?
Notice that you figured that because I was literally equal to the normal patriarchal structures that generally exist in life due to a matriarchal background, that you felt I had it made. When all it really did is give me the same equal footing you have in life. It certainly didn't pave any roads for me. And quite frankly, I've very fortunate I had that equal footing when attempting to deal with the male society that raped and abused me numerous times. Now imagine the women who do not have the sense of equal footing to begin with--the majority of women. If you automatically falsely assumed, despite what I've said about my past, that my problems were solved based on my family power structure and the dominant role of women, by that logic, you must surely understand how the average woman is at a distinct disadvantage to men who have the patriarchy advantage in our society.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
Imagine what it's like being raped, abused and assaulted numerous times then being told you are part of an overly advantaged, domineering group.
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
Yes...and the original quote my statement was in response to suggested that security and liberty are at odds. Hence my response.
Yes it does. Fully.
I realise men have a ton of problems. The main one that comes to mind is by squashing their emotions and intuitive intelligence, they end up losing balance in the system to the degree of dying much younger than women counterparts! That's huge, not to mention the day to day existence of squashing major parts of one--I know, it is very draining--it sucks the life from you. I realise it is very few men who uncover authentic power, and it's not people like farfromglorified who run businesses. I may be wrong, but from what know, he's not the filthy rich and a real power broker.
I don't discount the abuses towards men. I do realise society does. It makes me ill when I see men continually conditioned to squash their own emotions, experiences etc. I do not do that to my own son. I teach him about balance. In the big view, it is a huge imbalance and men are also victims of this patriarchal society.
Like came up in Abook's other thread the other day--men are taught to be logical and discount their intuition (or inner spirit) and then are held accountable for all the abuses such power structures perpetuate. In this life and the one beyond.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
When you do, it sounds like a lack of boundary, whereupon you see your own contribution and confuse things, assuming it "should" be their "missing pieces".
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
I don't speak for what anyone's vision needs to be. I expect them to tell me what their vision is. When they do, I simply hold their own words to their own vision. If there's a disconnect, I'm going to question either the vision or the words.
My apologies for confusing anything.
"Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals, so that security and liberty may prosper together."
Here are your responses: "You cannot "mesh" good and evil, friend, without ending up with evil." ... "It is through the "integration" of evil that security and liberty become at odds with one another."
It looks like the original quote suggested that information and knowledge integrates security and liberty that they may prosper together.
It appears you believe that such ideas of integration leave you with conflict. I assert that is because you don't understand integration because you are still fighting for separation.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
From my view, it sometimes looks like you are holding them to your idea of what their vision is, because sometimes I see that you are not getting their vision. That is not to say that we all don't have flaws, inconsistencies. Of course, call people out when you see a "flaw".... I see different communication/personality styles underlying some of these lacks in understanding, for the most part and not as much "flaws".
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
It looks like the original quotes suggests that the "huge industrial military machinery of defense" can lead to liberty. It cannot. The "huge industrial military machinery of defense" is a weapon. And the use of a weapon involves someone holding it, and someone facing it. The "integration" of those truths creates one man with security, the other without. The "integration" of those truths creates one man with liberty, the other without. The machinery of defense is the machinery of oppression and of death. Oppression and death cannot mean liberty, cannot mean security for those who are oppressed and those who die. Do you understand this?
You may assert whatever you wish. Perhaps if you could explain, then you might match your own vision.
This is true. I do hold others to what my idea of their vision is. I have no other choice. It is my hope that my idea of their vision and their actual vision are consistent.
Fair enough.
I think this base idea creates a lot of chaos and illusionary power struggles, including fake reasons for war (Iraq)
I don't have all the answers, myself, but I understand that looking to get rid of the poles of left/right, American/other, good/evil, we can demystify what our hidden emotions have distorted and move to true understanding of life--reconnection with what is real and natural. We can then see the big picture. I happen to know true integration is about entirely Love. Period. And about life in flow. When we integrate to that level of undertanding our dichotomies resolve themselves. We find ourselves left with no choice but to align to love in each moment.
You constantly argue for the basics of the dichotomies, for example self vs. other. While it is entirely relevent to do so, and someone has to, it is still arguing in the details, rather than operating from commitment to the integrated whole. By doing so, you have a factual point of view, however it is different than learning to become savvy with integration and resolution. You pride yourself on your "self-centeredness" and lack of integrating the whole. As one of my favourite authors says: Whatever we focus on expands. If you focus on the conflicting opposites, you are not focussing on the perfection of the integrated opposites. It's as natural to your personality as breathing. What would be a mistake would be to have a pygmalion complex and to believe that such a way should be for everyone. And I'm not saying you do so, it's just that we humans often scoff at what is different and what we don't understand. Worse yet is when we think we are "right" over that which we do not understand.
Anyway, with the quote, you honed in on the details and the part aobut separation and you don't seem to have a clue what true integration might be excepting maybe some "imaginary, pie-in-the-sky-"unrealistic" ideal. But, I'll accept that, because you do bring your valid logic around and you show a reasonable amount of Love and goodwill towards us "flaky, unrealistic" types, and really, in the end, it's quite clear you are one of us and part of the whole. Like if this were the real world, we're all obviously "hanging out" together.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
Every person who loves life has a moral obligation to defend their life in the face of direct aggression. But to defend your own life does not grant you the right to destroy another. And to define aggression as defense is the greatest moral mistake a government can make.
Liberty is the measure of a man's freedom from the state. You cannot increase that man's liberty by obligating him to the defense of others nor can you increase that man's liberty by pointing your weapons of "defense" at him for actions free of aggression. Furthermore, you decrease that man's liberty by assigning to him the state's "methods and goals", even if those "methods and goals" contradict his own.
Security is the measure of a man's freedom from aggression. You cannot increase that man's security by pitting him against his neighbors nor can you increase that man's security by subjecting him to the very aggression you pretend to reject.
YES!!!
This is all good.
"I think this base idea creates a lot of chaos and illusionary power struggles, including fake reasons for war (Iraq)"
I feel this way about the vibe you carry when you carry a gun as well. Our subconscious info hangs all around us to connect with the subconsciouses of others--we connect via those subconscious contracts. Beware self-fulfilling prophecies. Oh, and this goes for fighting for separation, too. Fighting for anything is still fighting. What was this thread about again???
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
It is all just details. The "industrial military machinery of defense" is also just a detail. Sometimes details kill you.
Fighting for anything is still fighting! The gun I carry is an acceptance of that fact, not a rejection of it. Understand why I carry a gun yet? Understand what I meant by this statement yet:
i thought you said before that would be impossible?
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way